October 1st, 2012, 02:25 PM | #1 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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Info on Area P Exhaust Systems for the 2013 Ninja 300
@kbryant How long till we see a area p ?
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October 2nd, 2012, 01:48 PM | #2 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
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Official word from AreaP is that they're going to do systems for the new bike. I know this for a fact for the QuietCore since that's what I asked about... have to assume they'll also have the short can too.
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October 9th, 2012, 10:24 AM | #3 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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We appreciate the inquiries on the new 300 exhaust R&D program. Since this is the site we support, we'll provide the updates here first;
We are still awaiting our production bike from KMC to be delivered to our CA facility. We are also awaiting our new FI Micro programmer that has the ability to hold multiple maps. The way our R&D program now works with having two facilities is that initial CAD designs and prototyping is done at our SoCal facility. Then these modular components are sent to our FL location where we fine tune the data, fitment, dimensions, Dyno testing and FI Mapping. Final testing and fittment is done at our FL location. When we require a bike in our FL location, whoever provides the bike will receive the first production system, FI programmer, Dyno Tuning, and installation all for free! The bike obviously does not have to be located in FL, it can be shipped/brought here if desired. We will likely have several systems to choose from as usual. We will be doing maps for a variety of combinations, scenarios, rpm ranges and throttle positions. Our R&D program will be extensive, as it was on the 250R. Our goal is to have production systems and FI programmers ready by late December after all tooling and fixtures are designed. Meeting this goal is dependant on how the R&D program progresses. Detailed information will be released as soon as possible on our website, as well as ninjette.org. Stay tuned.... |
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October 9th, 2012, 10:32 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Joel
Location: Sandy Eggo north
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300, '99 SV650 tracked Posts: 378
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Thanx for the update Kerry, looking forward to bumping the new bike even more. The offer for my bike as prototype still stands
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October 9th, 2012, 10:40 AM | #5 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Thank you for that offer Joel. If we don't get ours soon, we may be getting back to you on that....
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October 10th, 2012, 02:12 AM | #6 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Steve
Location: Maroochydore QLD Australia
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 NINJA 300 Posts: 32
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Thanks for the update Kerry, I'm definitely getting one for my bike for Christmas
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October 10th, 2012, 02:46 PM | #7 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Bike delivered. R&D program started.
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October 10th, 2012, 02:56 PM | #8 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Aprilia RS660 Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 6
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Coolness.
Something occurred to me... are you thinking of doing a new can for this bike? I've got a Quiet Core that I dearly love already... would be nifty to just have to buy a new header if I swap bikes. Also interested in how you're going to deal with the EFI. Won't a Power Commander or somesuch be required, or will the bike's existing computer be able to adjust itself? |
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October 10th, 2012, 03:01 PM | #9 |
Finding some curves....
Name: Thomas
Location: Hurst,Texas
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 300 Ninja Posts: 268
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Love to learn anything related to the ECU managements capabilities when available. Not sure if you know yet as to whether your going down the path of providing maps that can be additionally tuned or if the maps offered will be basically a ECU reflash. If the maps will be tunable knowing some of the tuning options when available will really get me excited.
I am also interested in if data logging will be available and what sensors we will be able to datalog. Thank you and good luck with the R&D. I can't wait to see what your company comes up with. Thomas |
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October 10th, 2012, 04:43 PM | #10 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Thank you. As noted in post #24 - "awaiting our new FI Micro programmer that has the ability to hold multiple maps."
"We will be doing maps for a variety of combinations, scenarios, rpm ranges and throttle positions." Further, the logic will be Dynojet PC5 based. Besides a variety of supplied/available specific based maps available from Area P, you will have ability to manipulate your own changes as well; both manually and laptop/PC based. It will be user friendly. As R&D proceeds, we'll have more updates and general info to consider. |
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October 10th, 2012, 07:31 PM | #12 | |
Finding some curves....
Name: Thomas
Location: Hurst,Texas
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 300 Ninja Posts: 268
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Quote:
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October 19th, 2012, 06:37 AM | #14 | |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Quote:
Since our R&D bike at our CA facility has to be returned to KMC, if anyone in South Florida has a bike they would like to let us use for this final phase of testing, they will receive a substantial amount of product & service in return -system of their choice, FI Micro Programmer with 3 maps, Mounting Bracket, custom installation and dyno tuning. We hope to have our FI Micro Tuner within the next few weeks, then Dyno testing will begin. Testing without the FI Tuner is somewhat of a mute point, since to fully validate each combination of headpipes, rear sections, and mufflers to their given potential, we must be able to adjust A/F curves based both on rpm & throttle position. Stay tuned. |
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October 19th, 2012, 09:54 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Steve
Location: Valdosta GA, US
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250, 2006 Ninja ZX6R-636 Posts: 661
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Keep us updated Kerry.
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October 19th, 2012, 03:06 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Travis
Location: Washington, DC
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): Suzuki GSX650F! Past: Kawasaki Ninja 300 (Sold); Triumph Street Triple (Sold); Kawasaki Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: 664
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I'm excited to see what AP can come up with. The dyno for the Leo Vince is a little disappointing; not only is the bump less appreciable than I expected with a full system, but I'm totally not willing to DROP the torque curve below 5krpm. It's already a bit anemic down there, so intentionally losing power at a weak point seems bad; definitely not something I'll pay a lot for.
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October 20th, 2012, 09:17 AM | #17 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Here's a few pix of some of the full system prototypes we'll be testing. An ultra high mount, standard mount with optional bracket, standard mount with long muffler and optional bracket, a variety of quiet core modules & cores, mufflers as well. Standard mounts can also retain the oem passenger peg if desired. Ultra high mount will likely require a fender eliminator kit. Once we begin our dyno testing & mapping, we'll narrow down all the options. With all the different versions we've prototyped, there's a substantial amount of data to attain before releasing the best combinations.
Last futzed with by kbryant; October 24th, 2012 at 12:28 PM. Reason: additional pic |
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October 20th, 2012, 09:28 AM | #19 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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Will there be a 12" quiet core or just 18" :O? Also with the ultra mount is there no way of geting a undertail exhaust or would there be a clearnce issue?
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October 20th, 2012, 09:32 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Travis
Location: Washington, DC
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): Suzuki GSX650F! Past: Kawasaki Ninja 300 (Sold); Triumph Street Triple (Sold); Kawasaki Ninja 250 (Sold) Posts: 664
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Very nice! I don't know if anyone else has pointed it out during your R&D process, but the 300 has a tendency to land the rider's boot on the exhaust heat shield. With the standard mount versions, there, it looks like my boot my sit right on the actual muffler. Any plans for a heat shield to keep the boots from melting?
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October 20th, 2012, 10:19 AM | #21 | |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Quote:
We looked at an undertail design and prototyped one. Issues are many; reliable mounting system, radiant heat and cooling, actual performance. It may look neat, but there are many issues to consider. |
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October 20th, 2012, 10:25 AM | #22 | |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Quote:
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October 20th, 2012, 10:33 AM | #23 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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Ah true. Seeing the pictures the pipe looks pretty thick almost like the 250 race pipe on all of them, Any pictures of the header?
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October 20th, 2012, 11:44 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Just a thought here, will the high-mount and standard systems be compatible with aftermarket rearsets?
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October 20th, 2012, 12:21 PM | #25 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Yep. But we're not going to show those yet. We've literly worked 24/7 on the 3 different headpipe prototypes for testing. No sense giving the competition a headstart . Once we know which version(s) we'll be using, we'll post them up. I will tell you this; those jumping to simply throw something together and call it a day, will be not be giving you their best efforts. Small displacement, high reving 4 strokes require alot of R&D to cover all bases of hp/tq/throttle response/fueling. It won't just be in the headpipes, mid-section, muffler; it will also be in the correct A/F mapping of all versions to bring the whole package together. Actually taking the time to do all this is definetly a project...
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October 20th, 2012, 12:25 PM | #26 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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As much as possible, we try to factor that in when designing prototypes. Obviously without having actual rearsets available, and the variety of different dimensions those aftermarket manufactures utilize, it can be difficult to determine at this stage.
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October 20th, 2012, 03:07 PM | #27 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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Do you think i can have this on my bike before next year :P? or It might just be established by the end of december and sold early next year?
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October 20th, 2012, 05:45 PM | #28 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Really won't know until we're done with R&D program. Both of those time-frames are goals. The way it works is after the R&D program is completed, we then design & build all tooling & fixtures to manufacture them in production. We'll keep the updates coming.
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October 20th, 2012, 07:22 PM | #29 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Nunya
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 04' Ninja 250, 13' Ninja 300 Posts: 10
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Quote:
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October 20th, 2012, 08:34 PM | #30 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Hansveer
Location: Bombay, India
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r - Track whore, Ninja 300 - SOLD, KTM RC390 - Orange Hulk, Ducati 899 Panigale - Red Devil. Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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October 21st, 2012, 07:30 AM | #31 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Thank you for the comments. Well in our industry "COG" stands for two things: "Cost of Goods", or "Center of Gravity". Assuming you mean the later - you would only notice the benefits of this design- Weight savings of a Fender Eliminator kit, weight savings of passenger pegs removed, overall weight savings of the exhaust system itself, and tucked routing of the mid-pipe/muffler.
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October 21st, 2012, 09:19 AM | #32 |
ninjette.org member
Name: J
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 103
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My Ninja 300 Build Photoblog Greater Toronto Area 250/300 Riding Group |
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October 21st, 2012, 09:34 AM | #33 |
Ninjette CPT
Name: Vince
Location: jacksonville, fl
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 08 250r Posts: A lot.
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+10,0000
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October 21st, 2012, 06:03 PM | #34 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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@kbryant So will florida need a bike till someone brings it in or will they eventualy get sent the kmcs 300?
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October 21st, 2012, 06:36 PM | #35 | |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Quote:
"Since our R&D bike at our CA facility has to be returned to KMC, if anyone in South Florida has a bike they would like to let us use for this final phase of testing, they will receive a substantial amount of product & service in return -system of their choice, FI Micro Programmer with 3 maps, Mounting Bracket, custom installation and dyno tuning. We hope to have our FI Micro Tuner within the next few weeks, then Dyno testing will begin. Testing without the FI Tuner is somewhat of a mute point, since to fully validate each combination of headpipes, rear sections, and mufflers to their given potential, we must be able to adjust A/F curves based both on rpm & throttle position" We always prefer to provide the product to a consumer donor bike in exchange for the final testing/fitting as they get a great package in exchange. Since our final R&D is now done at our Florida location (where I am currently located), it's not quite as easy for us to simply run down to KMC in SoCal if we don't have a consumer loaner. There have been cases where we have purchased bikes in the past, to complete our R&D programs if necessary. So we'll see if we find one locally, or have one shipped in to us shortly. If not, we'll purchase one for "long term testing". Never hurts to add another bike to the stable. |
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October 21st, 2012, 07:00 PM | #36 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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Wait you need a bike in socal not florida >.< im confused
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October 21st, 2012, 07:02 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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More questions for you Kerry,
Will you be making maps for with/without the snorkel? Right now, do you think it will be possible to ditch the airbox and switch to a pod filter? Or would the bike get better performance from an airbox? Also, what does the cross tube on the oem system accomplish? I know the 88-07 bikes had one, but my aftermarket Muzzy system (and your discontinued 88-07 full system as well) does not have this cross tube. I don't even have a 300, but I think your R&D process is cool and I want to learn as much as I can about the new bike. |
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October 21st, 2012, 07:12 PM | #38 |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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October 21st, 2012, 07:19 PM | #39 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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Awww to bad >.< I got my hopes up for a second i think shipping my bike would be super expensive :/
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October 21st, 2012, 08:00 PM | #40 | |
Area P
Name: Kerry
Location: SoCal & South Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): Too many to list Posts: 439
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Quote:
With FI, I believe it will work best with the oem airbox, snorkel removed, and/or modified oem airbox (such as an aftermarket filter, removal of the backfire screen, etc.). But you really cannot be completely sure until actually testing it with Pod style filters as well. Unless we've actually tested it, and we know for certain what it does or doesn't do, we don't rule it out. Well there's alot of black magic to the cross-over theory. Some good, some bad. In many cases, that crossover tube you see, may not even have actual openings on some models. It may also have openings much smaller than the actual cross-over tube diameter that we call "bleeders". The primary benefits we see to them is attenuation of sound. When you have a given goal of getting the best performance within a certain sound and emission level restriction (like the OEMs), going with a cross-over tube at a certain point in the headpipe design can make the difference between passing certification or not. That being said, it doesn't mean you can't get cross-overs to be beneficial in other areas of hp/tq as well. We've designed systems over the years with cross-overs and had excellent results in all areas. We utilize them alot when we design racecar exhaust systems for both torque and sound benefits. It really just depends on what you are trying to accomplish and how. At the end of the day, we look at all ideas and then sort them out on the dyno, sound meter, and actual riding conditions. That pretty much puts all the theory ideas to rest. |
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