July 17th, 2018, 03:12 PM | #1 |
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Mistakes short riders make
https://www.revzilla.com/common-trea...-commonly-make
Good stuff here. I see a lot of women who seem to be afraid of sportbikes, or of bigger bikes. I see a lot of discussion about lowering-links, without compensating for what it does to the overall geometry of the bike. |
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July 17th, 2018, 04:57 PM | #2 |
sammich maker
Name: snot
Location: West Ohio - in the kitchen
Join Date: Feb 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2013 white 300, 09 KLX 250 SF, 09 thunder blue 250(traded) Posts: A lot.
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So, my first track day was on my 300. It was lowered from and rear 1", I did great and had fun, my foot pegs even made contact when I leaned over. 2nd track day, bike at stock (improved skills = raise her up), I was not 100% comfortable, and I forgot to check my brain...crashed.
My bike is stock, I learned to ride it and watch for obstacles that could cause me to lay it down. I also added gel heel and full insoles to my boots (1/2"). Now I go to the gym for the strength...core, legs and arms. I will never lower a bike with a "lowering kit" again.
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July 17th, 2018, 05:27 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org sage
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thanks for sharing that!
They mention a need for good boots in the article. I love the confidence my Joe Rocket Heartbreaker boots have given me with my bike. When I was first looking at the Ninja 300 and when I went to buy it, lowering was recommended. I had made up my mind that I didn't want to do that. So when I found that I couldn't even tip toe in my regular boots, I bought the Heartbreakers. I can comfortably and confidently stand with one foot down, come to a stop with one foot down on my Ninja, and the little bit of extra height gives me better leverage when moving her around.
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July 17th, 2018, 05:32 PM | #4 |
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Heh, heh.... I started riding before I was fully grown. And I wasn’t old enough to get tarmac license, so it was dirt-bikes at my friends’ places. Boy were those tall bikes! I’d get on them like horse. Hop up on one peg first, then throw my other leg up and over. Meanwhile, leaning bike away, then pull back over to keep COG between contact patches. And doing clutch & throttle dance at same time to get going before it started tipping over!!!! Ahahahhaha, good ol’ days!
Kinda like this, although I was facing bike more |
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July 17th, 2018, 06:23 PM | #5 |
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Awesome video! That’s how I learned to ride a dirt bike when I was younger as well.
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July 17th, 2018, 06:33 PM | #6 |
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Unregistered now go away or I shall taunt you a second time! "To ensure you're giving your very best, blind yourself of all negativity, relax your mind, put inhibition to rest and drive hard toward your goals like it's the last thing on earth." - csmith12 |
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July 17th, 2018, 06:43 PM | #7 |
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ahahahhah, these are funny!
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube. |
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July 17th, 2018, 07:01 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org sage
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Unregistered now go away or I shall taunt you a second time! "To ensure you're giving your very best, blind yourself of all negativity, relax your mind, put inhibition to rest and drive hard toward your goals like it's the last thing on earth." - csmith12 |
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July 17th, 2018, 08:46 PM | #9 |
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I'm coming to the conclusion that lowering-links are probably a bad idea most of the time. I met Joann this weekend, and while I didn't get to talk to her specifically about being a short rider, she was on a Triumph Street Triple that would probably qualify as "too tall" to someone of my skill level, and handled it like a pro.
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July 17th, 2018, 10:04 PM | #10 |
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I've lowered tonnes of bikes for new riders, trick is to do both front & rear ends equally. While it introduces some compromises such as reduced ground-clearance and quicker steering (due to decreased trail), beginners aren't going to notice or be affected by that since they are so far from limits of bike. Being able to sit comfortably really helps them learn easier and faster simply from less mental stress about tipping over.
Another thing I've done is customize seat-shape. Banana seats are easiest as you can just remove cover and shave off foam. Narrowing front of seat into triangular shape allows for more straight-legged aim towards ground, less bow-leggedness. On some bikes, I've taken close to 2" of foam off. Just one inch makes big difference |
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July 18th, 2018, 03:41 AM | #11 |
sammich maker
Name: snot
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My hubby shaved the seat on my KLX, made a huge difference.
My 250 was lowered and it did help me. It wasn't until I went to the track on the 300 it became an issue (clearance). I no longer needed it lowered, I needed to improve my skills.
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July 18th, 2018, 05:43 AM | #12 | |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
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Quote:
BTW, she didn't have the suspension "softened." She reduced the preload and that's not the same thing. "Softer" means different spring rates. And to be clear, preload should not be driven by height, but by rider weight. As it happens she's also light, so the move was the right one... but the purpose is not to change the height of the seat. That's a side effect. The whole point is to keep the suspension in its working range (the middle third) most of the time. My track bike, stock, has a much higher and wider seat. With one tiptoe down (not even solid support, just touching) the other foot is dangling. So I did a LOT of mods to the seat. The seat on my GSX-R is narrow at the front, and the stock foam is also beveled so the top of the seat near the tank is only about 4 inches wide or so. This makes a huge difference, because it's not just seat height that matters: If you have to spread your legs far apart your effective inseam goes way down. The more vertical your leg can be, the better. Here's what I've done to the R-6 seat: 1) Dremeled the seat pan to be as narrow as possible up near the tank. The pan is now a bit narrower than the subframe. 2) Removed the seat foam and replaced it with a superbike foam pad (the foam that they sell for superbike tail race fairings, about half an inch thick). 3) Trimmed and beveled the foam to make it narrower up near the tank. This has made the bike much easier to deal with in the real world and it has zero impact on the way it rides. My $0.02 on all the gymnastics of leaping onto the bike, etc... these are all compromises forced by extreme circumstance. If you have to, you have to... but it's all far from ideal. I'd go with seat mods and gear selection first, every time.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. Last futzed with by adouglas; July 18th, 2018 at 07:05 AM. |
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July 18th, 2018, 07:18 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kerry
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Yes, I've seen the suggestion of narrowing the seat. I've suggested it to people. It's a fairly easy thing to do, and all you need to do is change the seat if you sell it to someone who wants it back stock.
Thanks for the discussion! This is fun. |
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July 19th, 2018, 08:22 AM | #14 |
Fogwalker
Name: Jeff
Location: Western NC
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250 "Matilda" Posts: 124
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Good article and advice! Particularly the point on training.
I've never been taller than 5' 2" and had to deal with this all of my life. The only bikes that I could ever flatfoot were my 50cc NSR and YSR race-bikes. Back when I worked with newer riders on and off the track I found that it was all good until low-speed riding was needed. Then I could see the shorter riders' confidence disappear. So I taught them that locking the throttle slightly open (a couple thousand rpm), using the clutch as the throttle (by easing it out to go and pulling it in to slow) and dragging the rear brake a tad would really help stabilize the machine at low speeds. That and their planning well ahead for where they needed to be and putting their eyes there worked wonders for both their skill and self confidence. Threads like this make me miss 'The Short Biker List'. Those were the days... Ride on, J~
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July 19th, 2018, 09:48 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Locking the throttle and using clutch "as" throttle, interesting. I could see that being useful. And yes, definitely plan for when you need to stop.
One thing that was helpful in slow-speed maneuverings was a class taught by one of the police departments, which was an entire day of slow-speed runs through tight patterns. Ninety-degree turns, weaves, u-turns, circles, we did it all. And this particular one was free! (Hawthorne PD, "Ride to Live," for anyone local to Los Angeles) Other police departments may offer similar courses as a public service. It's interesting- even very experienced riders had some difficulties with the courses. |
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July 19th, 2018, 12:36 PM | #16 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
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Great post... I’m almost 5’8” so surely I’m tall
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July 19th, 2018, 06:57 PM | #17 | |
Fogwalker
Name: Jeff
Location: Western NC
Join Date: Mar 2015 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250 "Matilda" Posts: 124
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Quote:
I occasionally watched (and assisted) OC Sheriffs practicing for their certs. They never touched the rear brake, but it took them hours to get low-speed stuff down (as it was all throttle). Try what I posted and see what you think. I can link an on-board video of my practice of it if you like. My students would do a medium-difficulty series of low speed turns (the alley of doom!) at the end of the day and they all did well. Ride on, J~
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Take care of new riders, for we were them, and they will be us. Y. Hong 2004 |
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July 20th, 2018, 10:17 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Those officers can do amazing things with those big, heavy bikes..... I love watching them.
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July 20th, 2018, 04:26 PM | #19 | |
sammich maker
Name: snot
Location: West Ohio - in the kitchen
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Quote:
I am trying to get him to become an instructor for the MSF.
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July 22nd, 2018, 11:09 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Nice!
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July 23rd, 2018, 05:41 AM | #21 |
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When my 5'1" daughter started riding 3 years ago she took her BRC on a Honda Rebel then started riding the Ninja 250 pregen she had bought. She was very uncomfortable not being able to flat foot the Ninjette like she could the Rebel in her class.
After a couple of months of listening to her complain I got a set of lowering links from someone here on the board. Yep it lowered the bike and got her feet almost flat on the ground and she felt much more comfortable. Fast forward about six months and we are riding on some local backroads, there is a really weird intersection with a tight left hand turn (posted 10 mph) with a road entering from the right. She came in a little too fast, a semi was coming out from the right, she didn't panic too bad, leaned over hard and scraped the center stand as she went through the corner. Scared the crap out of her. When she got her Harley Sportster it was a bit too tall for her, was the old style with the 13.5" shocks in the rear. She adamantly refused to let me lower it with shorter shocks. She made do with handling the heavier bike on tip toes. But has had some issues, and I think she has dropped it a couple times. I found a Corbin "Reach" seat on Craigslist and picked it up, at first she didn't want it, but I put it on and she tried riding, the seat is much narrower, thinner padding and moves her forward about an inch. It works great around town, but on longer rides it's a pain in the butt. It's only 1 bolt to swap out a seat so now if she knows she is going for a long ride she puts the stock seat on and just deals with being on tippy toes. As a temporary solution so a new rider can get more confidence on a bike lowering links might be OK, but they are not a good permanent solution for short people. |
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July 23rd, 2018, 12:13 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Thanks for your story!
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