December 21st, 2011, 03:01 PM | #41 | |
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Both have something to lose or gain. If voting or being apart of something is beneficial shouldnt you choose to not make a decision on it?
__________________________________________________
I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
December 21st, 2011, 03:38 PM | #42 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
Quote:
It's been said that you cannot force people to buy a voter ID, it violates the 24th amendment which is why FrugalNinja250 said it had to be free. Which pushes us back to the point of wasteful government spending. If you follow your own logic then no one can vote because we all vote for our own self interest. |
|
|
December 21st, 2011, 03:45 PM | #43 | ||
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Quote:
thats actually a great point, I guess I never thought of it that way.
__________________________________________________
I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/ |
||
|
December 21st, 2011, 04:25 PM | #44 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Marc
Location: Crawfordville, Florida
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848
|
It's been all over the news channels and reported in various locations online and in print, and in a study during the last election, only 86 voter fraud cases were found out of 33,000,000 votes. 0.0000026% of votes constitutes voter fraud? The Republicans in 34 states are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist and deny voters their rights because Republicans are afraid to lose innumerable elections the next time around. And that is one of the reasons they will lose. Most intelligent people won't stand for that type of reasoning and behavior.
|
|
December 21st, 2011, 05:33 PM | #45 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Can someone show me where asking for i.d. is unconstitutional?
|
|
December 21st, 2011, 08:52 PM | #46 | |||
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
Location: DFW TX
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609
|
Quote:
Quote:
The facts are there; voter fraud is real and does exist. And why wouldn't it? There is big big money in elections, and many groups have vested interests in seeing certain candidates win. It only makes sense to do what we can to prevent it. And requiring proof of who you are seems pretty basic, and downright reasonable. Quote:
The fact is, the percent of registered voters who don't have some kind of government ID already is tiny. Most of the bills being passed also include measures to ensure that everyone who is qualified to vote, has the ability to get a government ID without going through the hassle that you list above. In fact, it is probably easier than actually registering to vote, and actually voting. |
|||
|
December 21st, 2011, 09:12 PM | #47 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
Location: DFW TX
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609
|
Quote:
People attempt voter registration fraud for one reason: to commit voter fraud. It would be a mistake to think that the authorities are actually catching it all, or even catching a big percent of it. |
|
|
December 21st, 2011, 09:51 PM | #48 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
revstriker(Scott)
There are people rolling over in their graves and voting in Chicago after those remarks! |
|
December 22nd, 2011, 06:32 AM | #49 | ||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Besides, my voter registration registration already proves my right to vote, and I obtained it without having to leave home, go anywhere to get photographed and fingerprinted*, or having to pay for anything other than a stamp and envelope. *Both requirements for obtaining a driver's license or government ID in this state, along with having to pay for gas and parking to go to a central location, stand in line for hours on a workday, and pay cash. Quote:
I said no such thing. I don't appreciate your lie, revstriker, and would appreciate it if you would retract it. |
||
|
December 22nd, 2011, 07:25 AM | #50 |
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
|
Oh please. Come on clearly he was just kidding. If you cant take that kind of light jesting you need to get off your computer and throw it away. That or never post on forum again. That is the most absurd request I have seen in a long time.
__________________________________________________
I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/ |
|
December 22nd, 2011, 08:04 AM | #51 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.
|
I'm a bit intolerant of folks who say that I said something that I did not actually say. One of the few things that gets my goat is lying. I don't apologize for that at all.
|
|
December 22nd, 2011, 08:10 AM | #52 |
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
|
Sarcasm isn't really lying...
__________________________________________________
I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/ |
|
December 22nd, 2011, 09:48 AM | #53 |
ninjette.org member
Name: ruben
Location: MIA
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): Civic SI / future 250r Posts: 57
|
|
|
December 22nd, 2011, 11:27 AM | #54 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
I found this link which attempts to do a cost benefit analysis of voter id. It's pretty simple so he may be missing something but it has a good general conclusion.
Have a look. The Argument Against Voter ID That You Won't See in the Media |
|
December 22nd, 2011, 11:38 AM | #55 |
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
|
But keep in mind that only takes into consideration who theyve caught. How many more instances of it are there? I dont know? Does anyone?
__________________________________________________
I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/ |
|
December 22nd, 2011, 11:56 AM | #56 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Raise your hand if you think you should have an I.D. to vote.
Looks like a majority here wants it. Thank you! |
|
December 22nd, 2011, 12:37 PM | #57 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
Quote:
The percentage of illegal votes under the current system = 34 / 1.26 million x 100 % = .0027%. If you want to play with this more, increase the numerator 34 and the percentage goes higher. The fact that that percentage is ridiculously that low means voter fraud isnt an issue at least on the state level. Now that equation is for that particular state as an example. If we say there are 1000 cases of voter fraud, replace the 34 by 1000 and it comes out to .079 %. The only drawback is whether his analysis is sufficient enough because there could be other variables to account for. It's still a strong case against voter ID. |
|
|
December 22nd, 2011, 01:41 PM | #58 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Don't you read the Post Gazette!!!!!
Voter fraud is real And voter ID laws are really needed; they are not racist Sunday, December 18, 2011 By Jack Kelly, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette The state chairman of Indiana's Democratic Party resigned Monday as a probe of election fraud in the 2008 Democratic presidential primary widened. State law requires a presidential candidate to gather 500 valid signatures in each county to qualify for the ballot. Barack Obama may not have met it. Investigators think 150 of the 534 signatures the Obama campaign turned in for St. Joseph County may have been forged. Yet Democrats say that measures to guard against vote fraud are racist Republican plots to disenfranchise minority voters. Republicans "want to literally drag us back to Jim Crow laws," said Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, D-Fla, chair of the Democratic National Committee. The NAACP has asked the United Nations to intervene to block state voter ID laws. It may have an ulterior motive for opposing ballot security measures. An NAACP official was convicted on 10 counts of absentee voter fraud in Tunica County, Miss., in July. Former Democratic Rep. Artur Davis, who is black, said vote fraud is rampant in African-American districts like his in Alabama. "The most aggressive contemporary voter suppression in the African-American community is the wholesale manufacture of ballots at the polls and absentee, in parts of the Black Belt," Mr. Davis said. "Voting the names of the dead, and the nonexistent, and the too mentally impaired to function cancels out the votes of citizens who are exercising their rights." Laws requiring photo IDs suppress minority voting, Democrats charge. The facts say otherwise. In Georgia, black voter turnout for the midterm election in 2006 was 42.9 percent. After Georgia passed photo ID, black turnout in the 2010 midterm rose to 50.4 percent. Black turnout also rose in Indiana and Mississippi after photo IDs were required. "Concerns about voter identification laws affecting turnout are much ado about nothing," concluded researchers at the universities of Delaware and Nebraska after examining election data from 2000 through 2006. You need a photo ID to get on an airplane or an Amtrak train; to open a bank account, withdraw money from it, or cash a check; to pick up movie and concert tickets; to go into a federal building; to buy alcohol and to apply for food stamps. Most Americans don't think it's a hardship to ask voters to produce one. A Rasmussen poll in June indicated 75 percent of respondents support photo ID requirements. Huge majorities of Hispanics support voter ID laws, according to a Resurgent Republic poll in September. This year there have been investigations, indictments or convictions for vote fraud in California, Texas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Georgia, North Carolina and Maryland. In all but one case, the alleged fraudsters were Democrats. In none would the fraud alleged have altered a major election, Democrats note. But in the Illinois gubernatorial election in 1982, 100,000 votes cast in Chicago -- 10 percent of the total -- were fraudulent, the U.S. attorney there estimated. Fraud of the magnitude which swings elections typically combines absentee ballot fraud and voter registration fraud. At least 55 employees or associates of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now have been convicted of registration fraud in 11 states, says Matthew Vadum of the Capital Research Center, who's written a book about ACORN. Of 1.3 million new registrations ACORN turned in in 2008, election officials rejected 400,000. "There is no question about the legitimacy or importance of a state's interest in counting only eligible voters' votes," wrote liberal Justice John Paul Stevens for a 6-3 majority in the Supreme Court's 2008 decision upholding Indiana's ID law, the toughest in the nation. In a speech Tuesday at the Lyndon Baines Johnson Library at the University of Texas, Attorney General Eric Holder announced a full scale assault on the laws the Supreme Court said are constitutional and necessary. Mr. Holder -- who apparently won't prosecute violations of the Voting Rights Act if the victims are white -- picked an appropriate venue for his attack on the integrity of the ballot. LBJ stole his first election to the Senate, according to one of his biographers. A Gallup poll Tuesday indicates why Mr. Holder is trying so hard to gut ballot security measures. Mr. Obama trails in all swing states. Democrats fear they can't win next year unless they cheat. Jack Kelly is a columnist for the Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio (jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412 263-1476). More articles by this author First published on December 18, 2011 at 12:00 am Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11352...#ixzz1hIXwxTjK |
|
December 22nd, 2011, 01:58 PM | #59 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
|
|
December 22nd, 2011, 04:28 PM | #60 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.
|
|
|
December 22nd, 2011, 05:51 PM | #61 | ||||
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
Location: DFW TX
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
|
December 22nd, 2011, 06:05 PM | #62 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
Location: DFW TX
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609
|
Quote:
Second, those attempting to scam the system are not targeting a significant number of nation wide votes. This is more than likely happening on the local level where a mere hundred votes can determine the difference in an election. Even known voter fraud is hard to determine, and hard to separate from other votes. Lets say you know that there were 600 fraudulent voters in an election. Maybe their listed address don't exist. How do you determine who they are, and how do you determine which votes are theirs? Finally, since you seem to be hung up on the small percent numbers... What percent of air travelers have been caught attempting to bring explosives on to a plane? Yet our government spends billions of dollars each year to try and prevent this. |
|
|
December 28th, 2011, 03:55 PM | #63 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
Quote:
Voter registration is not voter fraud. Registration is qualifying people to vote. Actually fraud is when the vote is cast. Hence false registrations does not mean a vote is casted because you need to usually present ID to cast the vote. Your extreme example of catching a small irregularity is nice but you missed the point of the article. It was, is it worth it? The answer is no, hence against voter id. You are comparing apples with oranges to prove your point. I'll link you to the counterpoint which your sources loves to neglect. I'll give you warning of biases presented but the counter is valid by itself. Keeping Students From the Polls Propaganda and the Voter ID Campaign Weekly Standard Pushes Voter Fraud Myth To Make Plans To Disenfranchise Voters More Palatable Why the 'voter fraud' myth won't die And the coup'de grace. Added one state ruling for bonus. BREAKING: Justice Department Blocks South Carolina’s Voter ID Law That's a knockout punch! |
|
|
December 28th, 2011, 05:14 PM | #64 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW)
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Several Posts: A lot.
|
I'm reminded of a parable by several posters in favor of voter ID in this thread. To paraphrase, a man offers to sell another a tiger repellent, which appears very much to look like an ordinary stick fallen from a tree. The buyer, having a deathly fear of tigers, buys the tiger repellent for an exorbitant price. Over the years the tiger repellent stick seems to work, as the man never sees a tiger. Oddly, no tigers had ever been seen in the area before, but that didn't matter to the buyer. All that mattered was that he believed in the power of his tiger repellent to repel tigers.
I think the parable is very apt here indeed, the only difference being that rather than the fearful folks paying for the tiger repellent the taxpayers are being fleeced instead. Edit to add this paragraph copied from one of the links above: Quote:
|
|
|
December 28th, 2011, 06:40 PM | #65 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Well, I am going to do all I can to make sure that those who do vote have to show proof of I.D.
|
|
December 28th, 2011, 10:03 PM | #66 | |||
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
Location: DFW TX
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This is a step in the process which will be decided in court. |
|||
|
December 28th, 2011, 10:13 PM | #67 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Scott
Location: DFW TX
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja zx6r Posts: 609
|
Quote:
|
|
|
December 29th, 2011, 02:10 PM | #68 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
Quote:
|
|
|
January 6th, 2012, 02:12 PM | #69 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
Another great point brought up I'd thought I like to share.
Why Isn't The Right Screaming "Fraud" Over Iowa Caucuses? |
|
January 11th, 2012, 08:57 PM | #70 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
|
|
January 11th, 2012, 10:24 PM | #71 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
High Error Rate in Milwaukee County Election Day Registrations Found
http://maciverinstitute.com/2012/01/...rations-found/ |
|
January 12th, 2012, 01:22 AM | #72 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Domagoj
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2009 Posts: 396
|
I think these things filter itself out, with or without voter ID. At first, after reading your posts, I was a bit surprised that in some US countries one can just show up and vote. It seemed incredible.
Now when I thought of it a bit more, I believe there is no real practical way to organize a fraud on a scale large enough to make a difference. It simply involves too many people, and costs too much per vote. The more people you have in your scheme, the more probable it is to go wrong. Someone (by someone I mean more than one individual) is simply bound to expose some part of the plan to at least one person who cares, who will at least make enough noise to make things suspicious. And that's it. On the other hand, if the scheme is too small to be exposed, it is also too small to have an influence. Finally, if the elections were so close that a party or a candidate won by a very small percentage, which indeed could have been influenced by a fraud, it does not matter. It simply means that both parties have equal support in the population and that both have equal right to "rule". Even if their ideas and fundamentals are completely different, they should statisticaly be both equally right or wrong, and lead to the result which may be different, but carry the same "impact". I'm not sure if I explained myself clearly enough. Anyway, my conclusion is that voter ID is useless. |
|
January 12th, 2012, 07:35 AM | #73 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
When you have organizations like SEIU that can organize all over the country and who work the polling areas you have the makings for mass voter fraud. When you have a situation where a few votes can sway a senate election and that Senator can cast a deciding vote, the fraud does not seem so little then. |
|
|
January 12th, 2012, 02:04 PM | #74 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
|
Quote:
And regarding your video, funny thing. James O'Keefe could land allies in prison for voter fraud stunt For the sake of humoring the voter id fraud paranoids, are you going to still waste my tax money on a statistically low proven event like you did when you wanted welfare people drug tested? Wasteful government spending indeed. Only when it's not what the other guy wants huh? |
|
|
January 13th, 2012, 12:35 AM | #75 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Domagoj
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2009 Posts: 396
|
Quote:
Point is, there is no way whatsoever to make it work with 1,9 milion people. Just try to keep a secret between 10 people and most likely you will find it impossible. As I said previously, if only few votes decide the elections, the elections are close enough that both parties deserve equally to win or loose. If you voted for the defeated party you would feel wronged, but keep in mind that for each one of you who lost there is one who won, and that one would celebrate. And on a large scale, unbiased, and democratic point of view, you two are perfectly equal in importance. If later on that government made a decision which had a great influence, even if you personally believe that it is the worst possible, there is one who thinks the opposite and all is well again. I am not sure if I explained myself clearly. Again. lol. |
|
|
January 13th, 2012, 01:25 AM | #76 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
|
|
|
January 13th, 2012, 04:46 AM | #77 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Domagoj
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2009 Posts: 396
|
Quote:
If a majority in the Congress is won by a difference of 5000 votes, in a country where 40 milion people vote, and that majority makes a decision to forbid guns or legalize cocaine, that means that 20005000 american citizens support those decisions, and 19995000 do not support those decisions. That is, when looking at a total of 40 000 000, an equal number. Meaning, the fact that you personaly believe that guns are good and cocaine is bad matters not, because there is another american citizen against each one of you, who thinks differently. From an objective unbiased view, half of the country is happy and half is miserable, either way. Fraud or no fraud. The half you are in is just as important as the other, or not important as the other. |
|
|
January 13th, 2012, 06:49 AM | #78 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Domagoj, That is not how our system of government works. We are not a democracy. We are not mob rule. We are a representative democracy. A republic. |
|
|
January 13th, 2012, 08:15 AM | #79 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Domagoj
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2009 Posts: 396
|
Quote:
Seriously now, I am sorry if I offended anyone, I did not mean to imply anything negative about US citizens or government. In fact my opinion is very positive. |
|
|
January 13th, 2012, 08:21 AM | #80 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[sportrider - latest stories] - American Motorcyclist Association Launches 2012 Voter | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | August 17th, 2012 04:10 PM |
Voter Knowledge Test | Jiggles | Off-Topic | 24 | December 23rd, 2011 04:36 PM |
[motorcycle.com] - AMA Publishes Voter Guide | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | July 26th, 2010 03:10 PM |
[topix.net] - American Motorcyclist Association Creates First-Ever Motorcyclist Voter | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | July 23rd, 2010 08:50 PM |
[topix.net] - AMA Introduces National Voter Guide | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | July 23rd, 2010 08:50 PM |
|
|