Not like the cold or something else?

drowe531 · April 15th, 2010, 06:53 AM

I'm going to try to make sure I include every detail as sometimes I rush through these posts and forget things. I went to take the bike to work today and it must have been somewhere between 38-40 degrees F. I was gradually applying choke starting the bike but it ended up needing full choke to start. I rode the bike probably half a mile and tried to turn the choke down to about 80%, took a left turn and the bike stalled on me. Put it back to full choke as I figured it still wasn't warm enough and started back on the road. Went probably another 1/4 of a mile and tried turning it down to 80%ish again and it stalled once more. Granted this may just be learning when the engine is actually warm and thats something I'll hopefully learn with time. My problem though is when it had full choke the engine was revving around 6k rpm. Even weirder was it was revving itself when I had the clutch in and coming to a stop. I rode it back home at this point probably 2 miles total. I turned the choke off and the bike was idling fine at 1.5k rpm but I didn't want to risk taking it to work. When I had full choke on there also seemed to be a bit of lack of response on the throttle. When I was sitting in my driveway after I shut the choke off I blipped the throttle a bit and it seemed to be ok.

So after my block of text I guess what I'm asking is there sometimes too cold for the ninja or is it something else, like my carbs need to be cleaned?

backinthesaddleagain · April 15th, 2010, 06:59 AM

Hi David,
On my 250R I start most days, except summer with full choke (Rhode Island). It typically revs up to about 4000 rpm once its warm. That takes about 5 minutes these mornings in the low 40s.It drops to 1500 rpm when i take it off choke. Whether the clutch is in or not the rpm will till be high with choke on. The lack of response under choke makes sense - keep in mind the carb is "choked" of air. Basically using the choke restricts the airflow into the carb and kicks up the idle speed. Once your idle dropped to 1500 rpm you should be fine. I have ridden just about every month the last 2 years so long as it was 30s and dry.

drowe531 · April 15th, 2010, 07:04 AM

Thats good to know, so on colder mornings I should just leave the choke on for a good 5-10 minutes til I try to turn it down. Is it normal for the bike to still seem to rev even with the clutch pulled in during full choke?

mrlmd · April 15th, 2010, 07:18 AM

The clutch has nothing to do with idle speed or any other speed of the engine, whether it's in or out.
Start the bike with the choke, set it or adjust it to about 3000-3500 rpms. Let the bike warm up a minute or two, start to ride it, as it warms up, slowly diminish the choke setting, don't just turn it way down. Every minute or two, turn the choke down a little more, eventually turning it off. These bikes are all coldblooded and need some choke to run 'till they warm up.
There is nothing wrong with how your bike works, DO NOT start taking carbs apart, there is no reason to do that but it seems to be a fixation on this site. You can keep your carbs clean if you don't ride much by adding Berryman's B12 Chemtool or Seafoam, or Gumout in the recommended dose to the gas tank every 3 or 4 tankfuls.
Like I said, there is nothing wrong with your bike, do not mess with it - you have to learn how it works, and reading the owner's manual wouldn't hurt.

backinthesaddleagain · April 15th, 2010, 07:34 AM

I wouldn't run it under choke for 5-10 minutes. You should be all set within 5 minutes.

CC Cowboy · April 15th, 2010, 07:35 AM

David, when it's that cold, start the bike on full choke. Let it stay on full choke until it will run without stalling. Slowly lower the choke as the bike warms up. I used to try to keep the revs at 1000-1500 (as I recall, it's been a while). You have to keep an eye on it or it will over rev, or stall. I always warm the bike up to proper temperature before I ride. If you ride before the temperture is up you could not only hurt the engine but you could be in a situation where you need throttle response and not have it.

drowe531 · April 15th, 2010, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlmd

The clutch has nothing to do with idle speed or any other speed of the engine, whether it's in or out.
Like I said, there is nothing wrong with your bike, do not mess with it - you have to learn how it works, and reading the owner's manual wouldn't hurt.

Thanks for the responses, I figured it was cause it was cold and I didn't let it warm up properly. I was planning on running some seafoam when I fill up next.

Thanks again,
David

HKr1 · April 15th, 2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

. I always warm the bike up to proper temperature before I ride..

Would never start riding the bike with the choke on.

QuarterBoreNinja · April 15th, 2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HKr1

Would never start riding the bike with the choke on.

I'm going to third this, having your throttle stumble at the wrong moment could be a very bad thing. Warm up your machine then ride...

I've been riding in our rather chilly Michigan mornings and I'm not having issues, my Ninja's both start up easily without the choke and warm up quickly and are ready to ride in just a few minutes. But there again, I've been in the carbs to correct the Ninjettes inherent coldblooded nature...

mrlmd · April 15th, 2010, 01:57 PM

You can start the bike with the choke, only let it sit for 1-2 min, then slowly go down the road with the choke on, gradually increasing speed after a block or two and slowly turn the choke down every few minutes 'till it's off. You don't have to have the bike running in the driveway for 5 min or more until it's completely warmed up. It may never warm up sitting there if it's really cold out and you will wait for quite a while just sitting there. If you can turn the choke down a little, and if the rpms stay at 2000-2500 or so, ride it, it won't stall, you're not going to hurt anything. If it stumbles, turn up the choke a tiny bit. You don't sit in the driveway with a cold car engine until it's totally warm, you start it, let it sit for 30 sec. or so, then drive away slowly letting it warm up. That's better for the car, same thing for the bike.

riiken · April 16th, 2010, 05:40 AM

I follow these instructions

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_is..._at_startup%3F

backinthesaddleagain · April 16th, 2010, 08:36 AM

I always warm the car for a minute or two for a couple reasons, less than the car engine warming, and more for the oil to flow, especially cold thick oil.

Now the little 250 engine revs much higher than either of my 2 cars and I would rather the bike be warm and fully responsive when I hit the road.

Now one other thing, and I have never heard of this happening on a 4 stroke road bike but I have on water cooled 2 stroke dirt bikes - a cold seizure. A cold seizure happens when its cold out, the bike is first started, and some one rides away fast. The piston heats up much quicker (and expands) than the cylinder around it does and then you have a cold seizure. What it ever happen in our bikes? I have no idea.

April 15th, 2010, 06:53 AM	#1
drowe531 ninjette.org guru Name: David Location: Burlington, MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 (sold); 2008 Plasma Blue Ninja 250 Posts: 364	Not like the cold or something else? I'm going to try to make sure I include every detail as sometimes I rush through these posts and forget things. I went to take the bike to work today and it must have been somewhere between 38-40 degrees F. I was gradually applying choke starting the bike but it ended up needing full choke to start. I rode the bike probably half a mile and tried to turn the choke down to about 80%, took a left turn and the bike stalled on me. Put it back to full choke as I figured it still wasn't warm enough and started back on the road. Went probably another 1/4 of a mile and tried turning it down to 80%ish again and it stalled once more. Granted this may just be learning when the engine is actually warm and thats something I'll hopefully learn with time. My problem though is when it had full choke the engine was revving around 6k rpm. Even weirder was it was revving itself when I had the clutch in and coming to a stop. I rode it back home at this point probably 2 miles total. I turned the choke off and the bike was idling fine at 1.5k rpm but I didn't want to risk taking it to work. When I had full choke on there also seemed to be a bit of lack of response on the throttle. When I was sitting in my driveway after I shut the choke off I blipped the throttle a bit and it seemed to be ok. So after my block of text I guess what I'm asking is there sometimes too cold for the ninja or is it something else, like my carbs need to be cleaned?

April 15th, 2010, 07:35 AM	#6
CC Cowboy ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Whodat Location: Ware Is.,MA Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): I pass the wind! Posts: A lot. MOTM - Mar '13, Jun '14	David, when it's that cold, start the bike on full choke. Let it stay on full choke until it will run without stalling. Slowly lower the choke as the bike warms up. I used to try to keep the revs at 1000-1500 (as I recall, it's been a while). You have to keep an eye on it or it will over rev, or stall. I always warm the bike up to proper temperature before I ride. If you ride before the temperture is up you could not only hurt the engine but you could be in a situation where you need throttle response and not have it. __________________________________________________ If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough!

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April 15th, 2010, 06:59 AM	#2
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	Hi David, On my 250R I start most days, except summer with full choke (Rhode Island). It typically revs up to about 4000 rpm once its warm. That takes about 5 minutes these mornings in the low 40s.It drops to 1500 rpm when i take it off choke. Whether the clutch is in or not the rpm will till be high with choke on. The lack of response under choke makes sense - keep in mind the carb is "choked" of air. Basically using the choke restricts the airflow into the carb and kicks up the idle speed. Once your idle dropped to 1500 rpm you should be fine. I have ridden just about every month the last 2 years so long as it was 30s and dry.

April 15th, 2010, 07:04 AM	#3
drowe531 ninjette.org guru Name: David Location: Burlington, MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Ninja 250 (sold); 2008 Plasma Blue Ninja 250 Posts: 364	Thats good to know, so on colder mornings I should just leave the choke on for a good 5-10 minutes til I try to turn it down. Is it normal for the bike to still seem to rev even with the clutch pulled in during full choke?

April 15th, 2010, 07:18 AM	#4
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	The clutch has nothing to do with idle speed or any other speed of the engine, whether it's in or out. Start the bike with the choke, set it or adjust it to about 3000-3500 rpms. Let the bike warm up a minute or two, start to ride it, as it warms up, slowly diminish the choke setting, don't just turn it way down. Every minute or two, turn the choke down a little more, eventually turning it off. These bikes are all coldblooded and need some choke to run 'till they warm up. There is nothing wrong with how your bike works, DO NOT start taking carbs apart, there is no reason to do that but it seems to be a fixation on this site. You can keep your carbs clean if you don't ride much by adding Berryman's B12 Chemtool or Seafoam, or Gumout in the recommended dose to the gas tank every 3 or 4 tankfuls. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with your bike, do not mess with it - you have to learn how it works, and reading the owner's manual wouldn't hurt.

April 15th, 2010, 07:34 AM	#5
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	I wouldn't run it under choke for 5-10 minutes. You should be all set within 5 minutes.

April 15th, 2010, 01:57 PM	#10
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	You can start the bike with the choke, only let it sit for 1-2 min, then slowly go down the road with the choke on, gradually increasing speed after a block or two and slowly turn the choke down every few minutes 'till it's off. You don't have to have the bike running in the driveway for 5 min or more until it's completely warmed up. It may never warm up sitting there if it's really cold out and you will wait for quite a while just sitting there. If you can turn the choke down a little, and if the rpms stay at 2000-2500 or so, ride it, it won't stall, you're not going to hurt anything. If it stumbles, turn up the choke a tiny bit. You don't sit in the driveway with a cold car engine until it's totally warm, you start it, let it sit for 30 sec. or so, then drive away slowly letting it warm up. That's better for the car, same thing for the bike.

April 16th, 2010, 05:40 AM	#11
riiken Late Bloomer Name: Brian Location: Twin Cities, MN Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): Bikes-less :( Posts: 37	I follow these instructions http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_is..._at_startup%3F

April 16th, 2010, 08:36 AM	#12
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	I always warm the car for a minute or two for a couple reasons, less than the car engine warming, and more for the oil to flow, especially cold thick oil. Now the little 250 engine revs much higher than either of my 2 cars and I would rather the bike be warm and fully responsive when I hit the road. Now one other thing, and I have never heard of this happening on a 4 stroke road bike but I have on water cooled 2 stroke dirt bikes - a cold seizure. A cold seizure happens when its cold out, the bike is first started, and some one rides away fast. The piston heats up much quicker (and expands) than the cylinder around it does and then you have a cold seizure. What it ever happen in our bikes? I have no idea.