Help! I need somebody, Help, Anybody!?

Bosgarage57 · July 28th, 2011, 06:16 PM

ooook guys, it figures a week before the meeting and my bike breaks down. Heres the story. went to ride to work this morning, got on it like normal, choke it crank it, and it turns over like its gonna start, but it doesnt. Try again, same thing. Try it again and all i get is a "Click".

Thought it was the battery, so I took the brand new battery outa my gf's 250 and same thing. Try my battery in hers and it works. so its not the battery.

the "Click" is coming from the starter relay. Took it off and switched em, and my relay works with hers, hers doesnt with mine. Not the relay.

Took the J-Box off hoping maybe its just corroded, its not, lubed it up and still "Click".

Any ideas please?!?!? I got exhuast coming saturday and was hoping to get that on for the dragon next weekend but if I cant get it figured out I'll have to take my other bike

DaBlue1 · July 28th, 2011, 06:29 PM

Have you tried switching rectifiers?

Bosgarage57 · July 28th, 2011, 06:36 PM

nope, dont even know what it is, but my papi does! So we'll check that tomorrow.

Keep the ideas coming guys pleaseeeeeeeeee. Wanna get it up and going for next week.

EsrTek · July 28th, 2011, 07:29 PM

Just take her bike

ducducgooseit · July 28th, 2011, 07:33 PM

Fuse box check?

Alex · July 28th, 2011, 07:42 PM

+1 Check the main fuse, and the aux ones as well.

Bosgarage57 · July 28th, 2011, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Just take her bike

I would but its lowered 3" and i bottom it out, PLUS no way i'd be able to get around those curves, if the ninja cant get fixed, I'll take the connie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducducgooseit

Fuse box check?

I've checked every single fuse and the main 30amp fuse. all looked ok.

Live2ride · July 28th, 2011, 10:01 PM

I was riding around one day and the bike suddenly sputtered and died. Then refused to start for the next 10 minutes or so. It just took some time, I've never had a problem since. When it happened the ignition would roll over but not start. It may just be a hiccup in the system like mine. I hope so for your sake

.

p.s. have you tried opening the gas cap to release pressure? I did that when mine died and it may have been the vacuum or something contributing to the bike not starting though it still took a few minutes for it to start after that.

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live2ride

p.s. have you tried opening the gas cap to release pressure? I did that when mine died and it may have been the vacuum or something contributing to the bike not starting though it still took a few minutes for it to start after that.

I know

I have opened the gas cap, I know I'm kinda low on gas but its still in there. I hope its the recitifier and not hydrolocked..............Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion.

mrlmd · July 29th, 2011, 08:11 AM

You can jump directly to the starter and see if it turns over, ie., to see if the starter is good.
Have you tried to roll it in 4th, 5th, or 6th gear to see if the engine is locked up or seized?
You may have to pull a plug or both to make sure the engine will turn over.

BTW - releasing pressure (really vacuum) in the gas tank by opening the cap has nothing to do with the failure of the engine to turn over.

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlmd

You can jump directly to the starter and see if it turns over, ie., to see if the starter is good.
Have you tried to roll it in 4th, 5th, or 6th gear to see if the engine is locked up or seized?
You may have to pull a plug or both to make sure the engine will turn over.

Thanks for the info, I'll try to roll it in gear first, then I'll switch out rectifiers, then pull plugs.

Jinx250 · July 29th, 2011, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Have you tried switching rectifiers?

Rectifier has no role in cranking over the engine.

And I can't believe noone has told you to check the safety switches. If the bike was fine one minute and then all of a sudden won't start after being turned off, it's probably a safety switch.

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx250

If the bike was fine one minute and then all of a sudden won't start after being turned off, it's probably a safety switch.

I'll add switches to the list too. Thing is, it wasnt turned off, the key wasnt switched off in between it "trying" to crank and then just the "click"

almost40 · July 29th, 2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Rectifier has no role in cranking over the engine.

And I can't believe noone has told you to check the safety switches. If the bike was fine one minute and then all of a sudden won't start after being turned off, it's probably a safety switch.

+1
start at the key and kill switch and follow the wires.

alex.s · July 29th, 2011, 10:17 AM

like others said the clicking is your starter relay. if you hear it click that means your switches and everything are working and sending the stuff to the relay. your relay should connect your battery to your starter motor through a big fuse. its a very simple circuit, either your relay is bad (ruled out), your starter is bad or disconnected some how, or that fuse is blown... or the wiring is jacked... or your engine is seized.

you should still be able to jump start it

Link to original page on YouTube.

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

like others said the clicking is your starter relay. if you hear it click that means your switches and everything are working and sending the stuff to the relay. your relay should connect your battery to your starter motor through a big fuse. its a very simple circuit, either your relay is bad (ruled out), your starter is bad or disconnected some how, or that fuse is blown... or the wiring is jacked.

Thats what I was thinking with the switches. It is Clicking at the relay. The starter we took out of the bike yesterday and used a car battery and it rotated, but once we got it back in the bike we could never get it to do anything, with the bike battery or the car battery.......... Would this lead to bad wiring, or what does the starter "plug into?" The engine? Possible the starters working but not cranking the engine. In which case I need to see whats up with it.

bdavison · July 29th, 2011, 10:34 AM

The guy push starting the ninja, doesnt know how to do it. Its not that difficult. 1. You dont have to push it that hard and fast, just a simple roll will do it, its not a literbike. 2. You dont drop the clutch and leave it out. 3. Its best to actually GET ON the bike, not run beside it. If it fires in gear, it could leap out of your hands, and take off riderless.

When you drop the clutch, you just pop it for half a second to get the engine to turn over, and then quickly pull it back in so it can run. The ignition has to be on. And dont use the choke...start it with the choke off, then turn it on if needed to keep it running. If you push start it with the choke on, you could flood it if it doesnt start quickly.

edit...nevermind, alex removed the vid...

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdavison

The guy push starting the ninja, doesnt know how to do it. Its not that difficult. 1. You dont have to push it that hard and fast, just a simple roll will do it, its not a literbike. 2. You dont drop the clutch and leave it out. 3. Its best to actually GET ON the bike, not run beside it. If it fires in gear, it could leap out of your hands, and take off riderless.

When you drop the clutch, you just pop it for half a second to get the engine to turn over, and then quickly pull it back in so it can run. The ignition has to be on. And dont use the choke...start it with the choke off, then turn it on if needed to keep it running. If you push start it with the choke on, you could flood it if it doesnt start quickly.

edit...nevermind, alex removed the vid...

Hey Bryan, yea I've had to push start a bike before. My problem is I've got hills around the house, if it doesnt start and I get stuck down at the bottom of the hill, how am I gonna get it back up it?!?!?!?

EsrTek · July 29th, 2011, 11:01 AM

For some reason I didn't think of this reading your post last night...

My 2004 gave me some issues starting a few times (well over course of 2 days).
It started to crank like it was going to start then went to clicks only. Through messing with it, I found the kickstand up had some effect, but did not fix the issue 100%. I then went through checking all the safety relays.
When I got the the kickstand safety thing, having to take the stand off to get it off, w/ that unpulgged it fired right up everytime. Cleaned that piece and re-assembled and had no prob since.

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsrTek

For some reason I didn't think of this reading your post last night...

My 2004 gave me some issues starting a few times (well over course of 2 days).
It started to crank like it was going to start then went to clicks only. Through messing with it, I found the kickstand up had some effect, but did not fix the issue 100%. I then went through checking all the safety relays.
When I got the the kickstand safety thing, having to take the stand off to get it off, w/ that unpulgged it fired right up everytime. Cleaned that piece and re-assembled and had no prob since.

Hmmmm dad has had problems with his kickstand safety switch before on his bike, but it wouldnt let him start it out of gear. I'll check it too.

alex.s · July 29th, 2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bosgarage57

Hey Bryan, yea I've had to push start a bike before. My problem is I've got hills around the house, if it doesnt start and I get stuck down at the bottom of the hill, how am I gonna get it back up it?!?!?!?

yeah i've been there... the only answer i've come up with is a truck

alex.s · July 29th, 2011, 11:26 AM

it sounds like one of two things, the wiring for the starter, or something keeping the engine from rotating... have you tried pushing it in gear? does it move at all? if it does i would think the only thing left since you know your relay and starter and battery work is the wiring or fuse between them... do you have a multimeter? disconnect the relay and the starter and test the wiring between

alex.s · July 29th, 2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdavison

The guy push starting the ninja, doesnt know how to do it. Its not that difficult. 1. You dont have to push it that hard and fast, just a simple roll will do it, its not a literbike. 2. You dont drop the clutch and leave it out. 3. Its best to actually GET ON the bike, not run beside it. If it fires in gear, it could leap out of your hands, and take off riderless.

When you drop the clutch, you just pop it for half a second to get the engine to turn over, and then quickly pull it back in so it can run. The ignition has to be on. And dont use the choke...start it with the choke off, then turn it on if needed to keep it running. If you push start it with the choke on, you could flood it if it doesnt start quickly.

edit...nevermind, alex removed the vid...

haha yeah i posted that vid before watching it... *facepalm*

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

it sounds like one of two things, the wiring for the starter, or something keeping the engine from rotating... have you tried pushing it in gear? does it move at all? if it does i would think the only thing left since you know your relay and starter and battery work is the wiring or fuse between them... do you have a multimeter? disconnect the relay and the starter and test the wiring between

I moved the bike around yesterday, but Im thinking it was in neutral. I'll try when I get home to get it in 4,5,or 6th gear and move it around.

Thank you all for your help so far.

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 01:59 PM

Ok, its not the rectifier, also any ideas on how to get it into 2nd? It wont go. Tried to push start it in 1st and dropped it (yea not a smart move). But it wont go up into 2nd.

ok also dads trying to jump the circuits on the starter relay but it's not sparking or anything. This is leading us to the wiring. Wered be the best place to dig in?

alex.s · July 29th, 2011, 03:06 PM

i usually have to hold the clutch halfway in and rock the bike to get it into second with the bike off...

i would start by taking your plug off the starter and putting your multimeter to the highest dc amp setting it will go and while taking a reading, hit your starter. when it clicks, you should see no current if we're on the right track, from there take the connections off your relay and check each wire's continuity (resistance check) from the relay side to the starter motor side. no continuity? bad wire.

mrlmd · July 29th, 2011, 03:23 PM

You are totally wasting your time unless you can find out if your engine is seized. Roll the bike a little and get it to go into 2nd gear, then shift up until you are at least in 4th. or 5th, let out the clutch and see if you can roll the bike and turn the engine over. If you can get it all the way up the 6th and you can't roll it in gear, then you have another problem and all the time and energy you are expending now is a waste.

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlmd

You are totally wasting your time unless you can find out if your engine is seized. Roll the bike a little and get it to go into 2nd gear, then shift up until you are at least in 4th. or 5th, let out the clutch and see if you can roll the bike and turn the engine over. If you can get it all the way up the 6th and you can't roll it in gear, then you have another problem and all the time and energy you are expending now is a waste.

I honestly dont think its seized, when we were trying to jump start it (couldnt get it into 2nd) I pulled out the clutch and the engine turned over.......right before it slid out under me.

alex.s · July 29th, 2011, 04:19 PM

you would also hear more than just a click from the relay if the motor was actually trying to turn the engine. you would hear that awesome repeating whineclickclick noise that you get from a halted starter motor

Bosgarage57 · July 29th, 2011, 04:25 PM

YEAH ITS FIXED!!!!!!! I feel like a complete idiot though

The kill switch was off the whole time.............JUST KIDDING. Dad tried jumping it straight from the relay to a battery to bypass all the switches, and it still wouldnt work....so we took apart the starter, and the brush plates were sticking. Its weird becuase when we took the starter out the first time and used a battery it spun freely, but we cleaned them and now shes running!!!!!! I'll order a plate just in case but

THANK YOU ALL SOOOOOOO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP.

Now, I got my 15t front today, and gettin the Area P exhaust in (hopefully) tomorrow

then I'll be ready for the rally!

alex.s · July 29th, 2011, 04:28 PM

nice work

Alex · July 29th, 2011, 05:18 PM

ducducgooseit · July 29th, 2011, 10:44 PM

Starter brush plates sticking ... I'll add that to the odd things to check when the bike won't start.

Tenacity pays off.

July 28th, 2011, 06:16 PM	#1
Bosgarage57 ninjette.org sage Name: Luke Location: Sevierville, TN Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 Buell Uly, 05 VStar 1100 Posts: 577	Help! I need somebody, Help, Anybody!? ooook guys, it figures a week before the meeting and my bike breaks down. Heres the story. went to ride to work this morning, got on it like normal, choke it crank it, and it turns over like its gonna start, but it doesnt. Try again, same thing. Try it again and all i get is a "Click". Thought it was the battery, so I took the brand new battery outa my gf's 250 and same thing. Try my battery in hers and it works. so its not the battery. the "Click" is coming from the starter relay. Took it off and switched em, and my relay works with hers, hers doesnt with mine. Not the relay. Took the J-Box off hoping maybe its just corroded, its not, lubed it up and still "Click". Any ideas please?!?!? I got exhuast coming saturday and was hoping to get that on for the dragon next weekend but if I cant get it figured out I'll have to take my other bike

July 28th, 2011, 07:42 PM	#6
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	+1 Check the main fuse, and the aux ones as well. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

July 28th, 2011, 10:01 PM	#8
Live2ride ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cody Location: NoVa Join Date: Jan 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 yzf r6r previously: 09 ninja 250r, black 07 zx6r Posts: A lot.	I was riding around one day and the bike suddenly sputtered and died. Then refused to start for the next 10 minutes or so. It just took some time, I've never had a problem since. When it happened the ignition would roll over but not start. It may just be a hiccup in the system like mine. I hope so for your sake . p.s. have you tried opening the gas cap to release pressure? I did that when mine died and it may have been the vacuum or something contributing to the bike not starting though it still took a few minutes for it to start after that. __________________________________________________

July 29th, 2011, 10:17 AM	#15
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	like others said the clicking is your starter relay. if you hear it click that means your switches and everything are working and sending the stuff to the relay. your relay should connect your battery to your starter motor through a big fuse. its a very simple circuit, either your relay is bad (ruled out), your starter is bad or disconnected some how, or that fuse is blown... or the wiring is jacked... or your engine is seized. you should still be able to jump start it Link to original page on YouTube. __________________________________________________

July 29th, 2011, 11:26 AM	#22
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	it sounds like one of two things, the wiring for the starter, or something keeping the engine from rotating... have you tried pushing it in gear? does it move at all? if it does i would think the only thing left since you know your relay and starter and battery work is the wiring or fuse between them... do you have a multimeter? disconnect the relay and the starter and test the wiring between __________________________________________________

July 28th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#2
DaBlue1 Long Time Rider Name: Blue Location: Charlotte, NC Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.	Have you tried switching rectifiers?

July 28th, 2011, 06:36 PM	#3
Bosgarage57 ninjette.org sage Name: Luke Location: Sevierville, TN Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 Buell Uly, 05 VStar 1100 Posts: 577	nope, dont even know what it is, but my papi does! So we'll check that tomorrow. Keep the ideas coming guys pleaseeeeeeeeee. Wanna get it up and going for next week.

July 28th, 2011, 07:29 PM	#4
EsrTek ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Murfreesboro, TN Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): '13 300 Posts: A lot.	Just take her bike

July 28th, 2011, 07:33 PM	#5
ducducgooseit Name: ... Location: ... Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): ... Posts: 999	Fuse box check?

July 29th, 2011, 08:11 AM	#10
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	You can jump directly to the starter and see if it turns over, ie., to see if the starter is good. Have you tried to roll it in 4th, 5th, or 6th gear to see if the engine is locked up or seized? You may have to pull a plug or both to make sure the engine will turn over. BTW - releasing pressure (really vacuum) in the gas tank by opening the cap has nothing to do with the failure of the engine to turn over.

July 29th, 2011, 10:34 AM	#17
bdavison Wartown, USA Name: Bryan Location: Warner Robins, GA Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R SE, 2007 Ninja 650R, and assorted other bikes Posts: A lot.	The guy push starting the ninja, doesnt know how to do it. Its not that difficult. 1. You dont have to push it that hard and fast, just a simple roll will do it, its not a literbike. 2. You dont drop the clutch and leave it out. 3. Its best to actually GET ON the bike, not run beside it. If it fires in gear, it could leap out of your hands, and take off riderless. When you drop the clutch, you just pop it for half a second to get the engine to turn over, and then quickly pull it back in so it can run. The ignition has to be on. And dont use the choke...start it with the choke off, then turn it on if needed to keep it running. If you push start it with the choke on, you could flood it if it doesnt start quickly. edit...nevermind, alex removed the vid...

July 29th, 2011, 11:01 AM	#19
EsrTek ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Eric Location: Murfreesboro, TN Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): '13 300 Posts: A lot.	For some reason I didn't think of this reading your post last night... My 2004 gave me some issues starting a few times (well over course of 2 days). It started to crank like it was going to start then went to clicks only. Through messing with it, I found the kickstand up had some effect, but did not fix the issue 100%. I then went through checking all the safety relays. When I got the the kickstand safety thing, having to take the stand off to get it off, w/ that unpulgged it fired right up everytime. Cleaned that piece and re-assembled and had no prob since.

July 29th, 2011, 01:59 PM	#25
Bosgarage57 ninjette.org sage Name: Luke Location: Sevierville, TN Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 Buell Uly, 05 VStar 1100 Posts: 577	Ok, its not the rectifier, also any ideas on how to get it into 2nd? It wont go. Tried to push start it in 1st and dropped it (yea not a smart move). But it wont go up into 2nd. ok also dads trying to jump the circuits on the starter relay but it's not sparking or anything. This is leading us to the wiring. Wered be the best place to dig in?

July 29th, 2011, 03:06 PM	#26
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	i usually have to hold the clutch halfway in and rock the bike to get it into second with the bike off... i would start by taking your plug off the starter and putting your multimeter to the highest dc amp setting it will go and while taking a reading, hit your starter. when it clicks, you should see no current if we're on the right track, from there take the connections off your relay and check each wire's continuity (resistance check) from the relay side to the starter motor side. no continuity? bad wire. __________________________________________________

July 29th, 2011, 03:23 PM	#27
mrlmd ninjette.org sage Name: Marc Location: Crawfordville, Florida Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Suzuki S50, 2006 Kawasaki Ninja EX250F, 1990 Honda PC800, 2000 Yamaha TW200 Posts: 848	You are totally wasting your time unless you can find out if your engine is seized. Roll the bike a little and get it to go into 2nd gear, then shift up until you are at least in 4th. or 5th, let out the clutch and see if you can roll the bike and turn the engine over. If you can get it all the way up the 6th and you can't roll it in gear, then you have another problem and all the time and energy you are expending now is a waste.

July 29th, 2011, 04:19 PM	#29
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	you would also hear more than just a click from the relay if the motor was actually trying to turn the engine. you would hear that awesome repeating whineclickclick noise that you get from a halted starter motor __________________________________________________

July 29th, 2011, 04:25 PM	#30
Bosgarage57 ninjette.org sage Name: Luke Location: Sevierville, TN Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 Buell Uly, 05 VStar 1100 Posts: 577	YEAH ITS FIXED!!!!!!! I feel like a complete idiot though The kill switch was off the whole time.............JUST KIDDING. Dad tried jumping it straight from the relay to a battery to bypass all the switches, and it still wouldnt work....so we took apart the starter, and the brush plates were sticking. Its weird becuase when we took the starter out the first time and used a battery it spun freely, but we cleaned them and now shes running!!!!!! I'll order a plate just in case but THANK YOU ALL SOOOOOOO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP. Now, I got my 15t front today, and gettin the Area P exhaust in (hopefully) tomorrow then I'll be ready for the rally!

July 29th, 2011, 04:28 PM	#31
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	nice work __________________________________________________

July 29th, 2011, 05:18 PM	#32
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	__________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

July 29th, 2011, 10:44 PM	#33
ducducgooseit Name: ... Location: ... Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): ... Posts: 999	Starter brush plates sticking ... I'll add that to the odd things to check when the bike won't start. Tenacity pays off.