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Old February 18th, 2015, 07:47 PM   #121
garth285
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Thanks bud, I pulled my 300 rotor and compared it to the 250 tonight, I took a photo of both of them and overlaid the photo on the PC and found the marks are dead on the same between the 250 and 300.

The other thing I did was try to swap the wires on the ignition pickup incase there was a difference there..... tried it, bike wouldnt run and would just misfire.

Thanks for the help!
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Old March 29th, 2015, 05:42 PM   #122
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@cuong-nutz - do you have a 250 or 300 valve spring you could get me some measurements?
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Old March 30th, 2015, 09:10 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garth285 View Post
@cuong-nutz - do you have a 250 or 300 valve spring you could get me some measurements?
Figured I'd post what measurements I need here... looking for:

Overall length
Outer diameter
Inner diameter
coil thickness


Thanks!!!
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Old March 30th, 2015, 12:23 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garth285 View Post
Figured I'd post what measurements I need here... looking for:

Overall length
Outer diameter
Inner diameter
coil thickness


Thanks!!!
I don't have any 250 valve springs. Just 300. The 250 motor was put back together. I'll get the 300 info for you later.

49078-0060 (250)
49078-0077 (300)
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Old March 30th, 2015, 12:33 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by cuong-nutz View Post
I don't have any 250 valve springs. Just 300. The 250 motor was put back together. I'll get the 300 info for you later.

49078-0060 (250)
49078-0077 (300)
a 300 will be fine that will be great, I found that the I think it was 2011 and up 250's run the same part number as the 300 as far as springs, the retainers and spring seats are the same as well....

some older 600's use the same retainers and the same buckets but measure up to 10mm longer free length so maybe I can get a set of 600 springs to work for me. if not I can send the head in to APE and have them make a set depengin on price.
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Old April 1st, 2015, 04:52 PM   #126
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We can do that... The only part I would be worried about with the 600 springs is coil bind at full lift. You need .050 space from full lift to coil bind to avoid breaking springs, and thats on the ragged edge.
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Old April 2nd, 2015, 05:55 AM   #127
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We can do that... The only part I would be worried about with the 600 springs is coil bind at full lift. You need .050 space from full lift to coil bind to avoid breaking springs, and thats on the ragged edge.
Yeah I hear ya on that, I have some springs on order to check out the dimensions of them, they are only 5-6 bucks at dealer cost, I have a buddy who might have a spring pressure tester so I may be able to figure out something that will work, the good thing is the zx6 springs I have found that may work have a bit more lift than the 250's so it might pan out.

I'll give it a try with the 600 springs, I'm not looking to spend much more money on the project but if they work out it wont be to much.


OP - Any luck on any spring dimensions? If not no worries I ordered a brand new 250 spring to check out.
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Old April 2nd, 2015, 07:38 AM   #128
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Shawn, I'll get you the measurements when I get home. Battery died with my digital caliper.
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Old April 2nd, 2015, 07:47 AM   #129
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Shawn, I'll get you the measurements when I get home. Battery died with my digital caliper.
No worries, thanks bud!!!!!!
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Old April 2nd, 2015, 04:10 PM   #130
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@garth285,

These are the best measurements I can do:

coil thickness: 3.15 mm
spring ID: 14.35 mm
spring length: 39.25 mm
spring OD: 20.8 mm
coil distance: 3 mm
3 resting coils
5 active coils
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Old April 3rd, 2015, 05:29 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by cuong-nutz View Post
@garth285,

These are the best measurements I can do:

coil thickness: 3.15 mm
spring ID: 14.35 mm
spring length: 39.25 mm
spring OD: 20.8 mm
coil distance: 3 mm
3 resting coils
5 active coils

Awesome, thanks so much! I should have some springs in within a few days, hey @APEmike you dont have a list of spring measurements laying around do ya, know if any other springs have near the same measurements?
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Old April 30th, 2015, 04:01 PM   #132
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I have a ninja 250r('09) (european model so yes I have FI ..although no fuel gauge)

Is it possible to exchange the crankshaft from a 300r? it should be a nice bump in horsepower without any "mods" and if you want some port job and maybe a 1mm or 2mm overbore pistons it should be quite a power boost(compared to stock 250r)
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Old April 30th, 2015, 07:31 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by crackez View Post
I have a ninja 250r('09) (european model so yes I have FI ..although no fuel gauge)

Is it possible to exchange the crankshaft from a 300r? it should be a nice bump in horsepower without any "mods" and if you want some port job and maybe a 1mm or 2mm overbore pistons it should be quite a power boost(compared to stock 250r)
Hi Kostas, you should contact @micoulisninja - he can tell you everything about that.
But one easy word from me about engines, the longer the stroke the less the engine likes to rev up to higher rpm and if you do the more early it will break
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Old May 4th, 2015, 03:31 AM   #134
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Hi Kostas, you should contact @micoulisninja - he can tell you everything about that.
But one easy word from me about engines, the longer the stroke the less the engine likes to rev up to higher rpm and if you do the more early it will break
I do like short stroke and make it scream but if you keep it high rev it will break the engine too, trust me I know ..my engine broke when I was with 180km/h on the speed dial(engine head was a disaster after that)

I was rev 12k-12.3k before that(just made an oil chance ..authorized kawa dealer) but it was under warranty and was completely restored, new head new cylinder+pistons ..I'd prefer if I have more mid rev power than high because as said as much as I like it, it comes with a price, now I don't go more than 11k most of the times and usually change gears at 8-10k

Last futzed with by crackez; May 4th, 2015 at 04:37 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2015, 08:34 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackez View Post
I have a ninja 250r('09) (european model so yes I have FI ..although no fuel gauge)

Is it possible to exchange the crankshaft from a 300r? it should be a nice bump in horsepower without any "mods" and if you want some port job and maybe a 1mm or 2mm overbore pistons it should be quite a power boost(compared to stock 250r)
Yes its possible. Use the 300 crank, rods and balance shaft with 250 pistons of your choice. The 300 head has bigger valves and works well. You will need to account for an extra millimeter in the base gasket, stack them or have one custom made.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...&highlight=335

Last futzed with by bruce71198; May 4th, 2015 at 08:39 AM. Reason: add link
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Old May 4th, 2015, 05:32 PM   #136
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I do like short stroke and make it scream but if you keep it high rev it will break the engine too, trust me I know ..my engine broke when I was with 180km/h on the speed dial(engine head was a disaster after that)

I was rev 12k-12.3k before that(just made an oil chance ..authorized kawa dealer) but it was under warranty and was completely restored, new head new cylinder+pistons ..I'd prefer if I have more mid rev power than high because as said as much as I like it, it comes with a price, now I don't go more than 11k most of the times and usually change gears at 8-10k
Kostas, I trust you about that you know, but from the normal calculation the revs should have been already at 13k or above and there it could become critical (what at least happened with your engine).
And a word about more midrange power: Advance your ignition by 5 degrees (please don't ask me about the company, since in my believe the owner has good technical knowledge, but what I think from the human point of view it looks quite different).
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Old May 5th, 2015, 12:00 AM   #137
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Kostas, I trust you about that you know, but from the normal calculation the revs should have been already at 13k or above and there it could become critical (what at least happened with your engine).
And a word about more midrange power: Advance your ignition by 5 degrees (please don't ask me about the company, since in my believe the owner has good technical knowledge, but what I think from the human point of view it looks quite different).
Usually I was changing oils(and oil filter) in my bike but that one time this "authorized kawasaki dealer" did the job(I was buzy with gf shopping and bs).

From what I saw the oil bolt was missing when check the bike ..after the incident and they told me that it can happen when such thing occur(also these occur sometimes and I was like whaaaa)

I'm not convinced that it was engine failure or my fault, if the bolt wasn't tight properly it could happen to drip oil or even worse the bolt to fall appart from vibrations, I didn't see any torque wrenches when they screw it so. I do have a torque wrench and I tight it according to the manual.

This happened a few years back but since then I do the oil changes and the oil filter changes with no incedent, still afraid to push her far ..going fast and having the engine broken is a bad experience, when it happened something pulled me back and the force was quite strong, luckily I was able to hold her and also from instinct I've put all my body in front(I had a bad experience with a Honda Astrea Supra(previous bike) .. its a moped with back flat tire and did the same ..saved me too, I had chance the piston there from 50mm to 53.5mm although going from 97.1cc to 112.3cc wasn't much the power increase was huge stroke 50mm) ..when engine broke oils and water engine went to the back tire.. almost no control of the back tire.. it was like going through ice heheh I can talk about it for a while but my post is already long

Not sure if I'm going to do this but I'm researching ..if its possible, I just don't trust much other people and I don't have a guy that I know he would do a good job, you know what I mean?

if it was up to me I could turn the bike into electric I do have the knowledge to do that(I already have a custom ebike) but that isn't possible because I live in Greece and mods like this cannot pass regular check ups(happens every 2 years and check almost everything and Co2 emissions) ..there not too strick check ups so having it 300cc won't matter, no one will notice it - but finding a mechanic to rely on after this simple oil chance incident is hard(it might be as they said and the bolt might fall after this small "explosion" but still I have my suspicions I'm not a mechanic myself, far from it.. changing a moped head or piston/cylinder with a help of a mechanic is different than the ninja, to their defense I did change the spark plugs to iridium ones a few months before my accident ..don't know if these push the engine too much although I doubt it)
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Old May 9th, 2015, 09:47 AM   #138
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Awesome thread
Was wondering if You have both shifting forks laying around from 250 and 300 ? I need to know how diffrent they are both visualy and by measurement.

I am over 2000mil after engine swap and I keep miss-shifting gears despite best of efforts and technics plus to lever has long throw. As I read it's common for ninjas to have moody gearbox.
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Old December 24th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #139
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cuong-nutz, thank you very much for taking to time to add this wealth of knowledge to the community.

This is my first post so I'll get right to it.


I'm very slowly building a high hp turbo 250 for landspeed racing and am in the initial stages of motor design.

What is the connecting rod measurements for the 250 if you have one laying around?

big and small journal diameters, & rod length


Thank you,

Mark
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Old December 24th, 2015, 06:23 PM   #140
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cuong-nutz, thank you very much for taking to time to add this wealth of knowledge to the community.

This is my first post so I'll get right to it.


I'm very slowly building a high hp turbo 250 for landspeed racing and am in the initial stages of motor design.

What is the connecting rod measurements for the 250 if you have one laying around?

big and small journal diameters, & rod length


Thank you,

Mark
Welcome Mark,

maybe the attached picture could show what you're looking for?

You'll find them here: https://www.spearsenterprises.com/ex250.html

May I ask you about your plan: high cr and low boost or the real thing, low cr and high boost?

Good luck

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Old January 16th, 2016, 12:57 AM   #141
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Somchai,

Thank your for the link, it seems they make more aftermarket parts for this engine than I was aware.

I would love to share the details of my build, but its only in planning stages at the moment to see about the feasibility of my project within budget & hp/mph goals.

Initial plans are to go with somewhere around 10.5:1 CR and over 30psi boost. This is a dedicated race only Bonneville build. The air up there is thin and requires higher CR and boost to compensate. Spec fuels will either be leaded 117 octane or methanol.

My concerns are how good of a platform is the ninja 250 to use in this application vs another model 250? Obviously I will be asking way more than ANY 250 should be easily capable of, but if one platform isn't quite as durable (block, heads, etc) as another then I will obviously choose the beefier one.

One of the areas I will need to likely spend most of my budget will be the rotating assembly. It seems IMHO any of the readily available aftermarket parts (rods & pistons) will not be durable enough or are not suited for high HP and high boost. The piston pins are only .630" .120" wall thickness. this will have to be increased which will necessitate custom ordered rods and pistons, which have to be ordered in sets of 4.

Another area of concern is the heads and how much can the ports be enlarged before hitting a water jacket or other obstacle as well as the ability for larger valve springs.

Any how, enough ramblings for one night, Cheers.
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Old April 8th, 2019, 06:51 AM   #142
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Digging up an old thread here.

So if no one has yet made a decent 300 big bore kit, then how about running a 250 cylinder in a 300 engine, using Wiseco 64 or 66mm 12.5-1 comp pistons ?

So the question is will a 2008-12 250 cylinder fit into a 300 engine ? Looking at pics from this comparison strip down, it looks possible.

Anyone got the parts to test / dry fit ?
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Old April 8th, 2019, 07:32 AM   #143
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Spears sells a +2 mm kit. $1000 us. Oversized 250 pistons will need custom rods or some other tweak to work with the 300 crank. Piston skirt clearance may be an issue? Oversize 300 pistons would need rings for iron cylinders instead of nikasil (i believe... I have been told this but havent found a definitive source on the question.)
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Old April 8th, 2019, 10:15 AM   #144
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Since I posted this question, a bit more research lead to spears site. But I’m in the UK, so add in import duty & 20% taxes & their kit is expensive, plus no idea of the weight of the pistons. The Wiseco 64 or 66 300 pistons at 12.5/1 compression would work.

The other thing I found on sears is the high comp stock bore gasket that may be a simple solution for a bit more torque !

FYI Nikasil or other SIL rings will work fine on an iron bore, but NOT the other way round.

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Old April 8th, 2019, 02:38 PM   #145
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Look up bruce71198's big-bore 250 builds. He's doubling 250's power output, or more than current 400!!!
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Old July 5th, 2020, 12:26 PM   #146
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So having acquired a 300 engine & compared pistons with newgen 250.
Weight complete with rings, pin & 1 circlip.
300=157grams
250=167grams

So 250 pistons are quite heavy due to the raise dome for higher compression. It also has a higher deck height. The ZX6R 66mm piston I have been reworking is down to 175grams.

The 300 uses a modern X braced piston design compared to the older parallel pin boss walls on the 250 & 600 pistons. This lets it run a 5mm shorter wrist pin, which saves 4grams. 31.3grams verses 35.3grams.

ZX6R pin is 40.2gram due to having 3mm wall thickness, compared to 2.5mm wall on the 250 & 300 pins.

Just bought I’d share.
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Old July 18th, 2020, 02:05 PM   #147
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So some more digging & the bare piston weight of the spears 13/1 is 135grams.
I'm going to go with ZZR600 64mm big bore for 315cc. These pistons complete are 169grams, with a little work I can get them to down to 165grams, so 8grams heavier than stock but should be fine. Will give 12/1 compression.
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Old May 1st, 2023, 08:34 PM   #148
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Old thread I know and I don't own a Ninja but am considering the EX250 pistons as candidates for a FZR400/YZF600r project.

The very reason I am seriously considering the EX250 pistons is because of this thread and these forums.

Just wanted to say you guys leave so many other forums for dead when it comes to getting across the important details and taking meaningful measurements and photos.

Seriously good work!
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