Advice on cheap, like free Mods-for quicker acceleration~~Yes I searched !!!!

[Dieseldog]

It's cool how much power is able to be produced by very small engines with modern technology. I always wanted to build a turbo go cart with a Briggs engine but I never thought it would be feasible. I even picked up a few books on turbo charging engines and how to calculate boost but I still didn't think I could ever do something that cool. Now I see these guys on YouTube that put turbos on everything and fabricate crazy engines that run like 50,000 RPM's on RC fuel. There's probably engines that can spin faster than that but it's crazy seeing such a small engine spinning that fast!!
This is what amazes me about my Ninjette!!
I wonder how much power my Ninjette could produce with a turbo??😄😛

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

You can find videos of the real ones among the silly ones on YouTube. They're centrifugal, with motors that spin like 70,000 rpm and run off 48v from separate batteries.

Edit: Here's one to get you started: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a_J2X88fSE

Originally Posted by Alex

OEMs are looking into these electric turbo's a bit more. Check out the two links below about what Mercedes is developing:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-turbocharger/

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...x-engine-tech/

They have been snake oil for years, but these developments certainly seem more legitimate.

Ah.. the trick is to use real turbos and turbochargers, not cooling fans. In which case, they can actually flow and compress intake-air. Then it's just matter of how to drive them. While electric may not be as efficient as direct drive, it does simplify installation.

Main issue is controlling this boost. Without variable-speed controller, you have fixed amount of flow. So it gives most boost at low-RPMs and drops as engine-speed and flow increases. As seen in video with 5psi max-boost initially that drops off to 2 towards redline. Similar to early days of nitrous where activating at low-rpms will destroy engine. Then came variable-injection controllers and integration with EFI systems.

Again, it's the paradox of cheap, powerful & reliable. Pick any 2 but you can't have all 3. They didn't say what they used to manage ignition under boost. My very first upgrade is always to go with programmable afternarket standalone EFI system. Being able to 3D map ignition is 1st step before any other mods.

AMG's design is very interesting. With sufficient electronics control for integration, you can get benefits of both supercharger and turbo. Low-end torque AND high-end power. Only other car using both that I can think of is old Lancia Integrale Group-B rally car. Or some MR2 hot-rod dragsters in Puerto Rico. They used both supercharger from 1st-generation and added turbo from 2nd-generation MR2. When you're boosting lowly 110bhp Corolla engine to +600bhp, that's gonna have some serious turbo-lag. Adding supercharger significantly reduces that lag and improves 0-60ft times tremendously. Maybe Kawasaki should make an H2X by adding turbo....

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Dieseldog

It's cool how much power is able to be produced by very small engines with modern technology. I always wanted to build a turbo go cart with a Briggs engine but I never thought it would be feasible. I even picked up a few books on turbo charging engines and how to calculate boost but I still didn't think I could ever do something that cool. Now I see these guys on YouTube that put turbos on everything and fabricate crazy engines that run like 50,000 RPM's on RC fuel. There's probably engines that can spin faster than that but it's crazy seeing such a small engine spinning that fast!!
This is what amazes me about my Ninjette!!
I wonder how much power my Ninjette could produce with a turbo??����

Biggest bang-for-weight power appears to be rotary or shaft-drive turbine. Rotary is 3/2-stroke engine with 3 power-pulses per engine-revolution, so can easily rival 2-stroke piston engine (1 power-pulse per rev) for power-to-weight. No complex valve-train or cams to deal with. Durability of apex-seals is limiting factor.

There's been many, many failed attempts turbocharging Ninjette. Different approaches were taken. But I suspect failures were from order of operations. Control system should be first and often relegated to after-the-fact hacks. Really needs programmable EFI system with 3D mapping of fuel & ignition (my favourite is MoTeC). Most people re-used factory EFI system with way, way too much ignition-advance for boost. Ends up with fried valves, melted holed pistons or blown headgasket in short order.

Highest we've seen is 58-rwhp from that Thai outfit. Couple of street pulls after dyno runs. But then noting afterwards. Probably blew headgasket soon after. I've blown up quite a few engines tinkering with stuff like this, at least 20 of them, not counting any more. Learned lots though.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

While electric may not be as efficient as direct drive, it does simplify installation.

The efficiency of the aftermarket system isn't particularly relevant, since they're running off a separate battery system, rather than sucking power from the vehicle's alternator. Battery capacity is relevant though.

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah at some point you have to charge that battery. But can stage it during less-loaded cruising time after acceleration phase.

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Yeah at some point you have to charge that battery. But can stage it during less-loaded cruising time after acceleration phase.

In the applications I've seen I'm pretty sure the battery gets charged once the car is parked for the day. In a long race situation, recharge when not at peak power demand makes sense.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

AMG's design is very interesting. With sufficient electronics control for integration, you can get benefits of both supercharger and turbo. Low-end torque AND high-end power. Only other car using both that I can think of is old Lancia Integrale Group-B rally car.

Volvo has put both a turbocharger and a supercharger on their 2.0 liter 4 for a few years - supposedly it works pretty well.

https://www.wardsauto.com/10-best-en...l-turbosuper-4

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Alex

Volvo has put both a turbocharger and a supercharger on their 2.0 liter 4 for a few years - supposedly it works pretty well.

https://www.wardsauto.com/10-best-en...l-turbosuper-4

That's amazing! Thanks for link.

[Dieseldog]

One reason I have a little more confidence with attempting mods such as installing a turbo is YouTube!!
One man in particular, Warped Perception, built a fuel injected, turbo charged, methanol fueled PCM controlled Briggs and Stratton engine. He tries to get it to mechanically fail by running it full throttle. The only thing that happens to it is it blows heads and head gaskets. If he uses the transparent heads the "sparkplug" blows out pretty regularly. Other than that he never gets it to blow!! That little Briggs takes a beating!!
He also builds, as you mentioned DannoXYZ, a see through Wankel rotary engine that he tries to get it to fail as well. He doesn't destroy it well he couldn't destroy it.
When I see someone that can fabricate something like that and then put it to the test and it endures the torture it's very impressive. I've seen failures happen on a Tecumseh more than once at low idle but I've only seen a Briggs blow up once and it was my go kart engine that blew. It was a 5hp and I had put rings and I lapped the valves a tiny bit when I got it cause it smoked. It was a really good engine but I would horse beat the heck out of it and it was smoking again within a month. I just kept oil in it and rode the heck out of it. I probably ran it low a few times too many and then one day BLAM!!! I was on a full throttle run and the rod flys out through the case spraying oil and metal debris every where. I really wish I had a camera then. The damage was total. Nothing was salvageable except for maybe the magneto. The crankshaft was trashed and bent. The cylinder had huge gouges and the piston had contacted the head fusing piston to the head. Lots of metal particles made it places I still can't see how it got there. This and a bosses work truck are the only engines I've blown up. The truck had a 350 and shot push rods through the hood!! Later we found a rod had blown through the block and that's how the push rods were able to shoot up. Fun times!!

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by Dieseldog

I probably ran it low a few times too many and then one day BLAM!!! I was on a full throttle run and the rod flys out through the case spraying oil and metal debris every where. I really wish I had a camera then. The damage was total.

I threw the rod out of my 4 hp Tecumseh when I was overrevving it in my go-kart, but I had it running a couple days later. I got a rod and TIG welded a patch in the crankcase hole, and I had to smooth up a big nick on a piston skirt, but it's still together 35 years later. The kart now has an Elsinore 125 in it.