Girl Nearly dies, doing UK bike test

[karlosdajackal]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Ne...?&R=EPI-122854

[SteveL]

I am not familiar with the UK test but here in Switzerland my son had to lock the front wheel at the beginning of the emergency stop. They claim that locking and then releasing a little is the most effective braking procedure, not good if you get it wrong.

Steve

[tapdiggy]

Why is such a maneuver practiced? Does the braking portion come after the bike is returned to an upright position? Or does the rider apply brakes during the swerve?

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by tapdiggy

Why is such a maneuver practiced? Does the braking portion come after the bike is returned to an upright position? Or does the rider apply brakes during the swerve?

I'll tell you what I know, but luckily I'm not in the health and safety police state that is the UK, they are just my neighbors

Its part 6, on this diagram so you have to swerve in that tight space at 32mph/50kph if you go 49kph you fail. Then the stop is after that.
http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/MPTC...agram_mptc.pdf

2 problems, the test does not change if it rains (as it does often in the UK) so if you go on a dry day you might be fine, on a wet day you find yourself going very quick at a turn where you have to flick the bike quickly left or right without slowing down. If you so much as tap the front brake, not only will you fail for going slow you will probably come off. 2nd problem is these test areas are usually not that large, and people doing tests on 125cc bikes have a hard time getting up to 32mph in the amount of space they have available to them.

Between the point you can start turning, and the point you have to have completed the swerve and have it straight again is 10 meters or 32.8 feet, at 32mph/50kph in 1 second you will cover 14 meters or 46 feet, so basically you have less that 1 second to complete the swerve. Even 1 mph too slow you fail. People have fallen and broken bones in the dry, lots of people have failed for going too slow (which is odd most people if they think they won't make a turn should slow down before they get to it), a lot of people end up flying into it and foolishly brake mid swerve which can be lethal.

Then you add in rain. If it rains and you are unlucky enough to be doing this test you don't get to do it at 20mph you still have to do it at 32mph even though you have less grip and should not be throwing the bike around so much.

Imagine it your doing your test, its rained, you have to rev the crap out of your 125/150/200/250 and floor it going towards these cones, if you get up to 32mph your doing well then you have to flick it left then right (or right then left) without slowing down. If you slow down early you fail, if you slow down in the turn you fail, or may even fall off.

It doesn't look to bad in this video, you see the swerve is after a semi circle, and your speed is measure going into it. Imagine all the new riders who get to the turn and think "this is a bit too quick, better slow down" and end up with broken bones.

Link to original page on YouTube.

This test would be ok if they allowed you go a bit slower if it rained, or if you where allowed a bit slower on a 125cc bike. They don't ask car drivers to anything like this, even a car emergency stop is not going to hurt you they don't ask you to stop before you hit a brick wall

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by karlosdajackal

It doesn't look to bad in this video, you see the swerve is after a semi circle, and your speed is measure going into it.

In your first link to the actual test, on the right side of the firt page on the PDF it says "For all Mopeds, speed requirements are 30kph/19mph"

In the video, I would have to assume that it is a moped and only doing 19mph...which is probably why it looked so effortless in the video.

[SteveL]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

In your first link to the actual test, on the right side of the firt page on the PDF it says "For all Mopeds, speed requirements are 30kph/19mph"

In the video, I would have to assume that it is a moped and only doing 19mph...which is probably why it looked so effortless in the video.

The vehicle in the video is a scooter which could be a 50cc to 125cc, a moped has peddles is not more than 50cc not the same thing at all.

Steve

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by SteveL

The vehicle in the video is a scooter which could be a 50cc to 125cc, a moped has peddles is not more than 50cc not the same thing at all.

Steve

The term here has gotten so twisted over the years by companies. Just searching google for it I came up with the "MC-X01 150cc Moped Scooter", and the "Retro 49cc scooter" haha.
Since you mentioned peddles, I know exactly what your referring to, but I can't remember the last time I heard anyone actually call those a moped (despite the fact that that is what they are).


Anyways, horrible accident, hopfully the girl continues to pull through without any serious injuries.

[cnichols79us]

When I took my endorsement test in Oregon, the group I tested in had a guy go down hard on a 125cc Yamaha scooter. Actually a similiar kind of test, a little different. You had a VERY Short space to accelerate to 30mph, then swerve either left or right of a set of cones, then come to a stop with the front wheel in in one of the 2 stop boxes. You had to stop almost immediatly after swerving. A couple people grabbed a handfull of front brake doing this. The guy on the scooter, wearing only a half helmet (no face shield, NO other gear) kinda freeked and grab the brakes hard. Instant low side and the scooter bounced and landed on top of him once everything stopped sliding. Took 2 of us to get the scooter off of him. LUCKILY, the only thing hurt was his pride. But, the test itself was very unsettling. I can't imagine trying it in wet conditions for a lot of people. Any brake at all, and BOOM.... Here is a VERY CRUDE Paint diagram. It looks like my 4 year old did it, but it was me.

[Flashmonkey]

My question is: how much training have the riders received prior to this test? That test looks fairly difficult, especially at the speeds that they're supposed to be done at. Is there a mandatory training class...or do people just walk into the Ministry or DMV and take the test? Also, are we talking a couple of days worth of training prior to testing...or is this like a weekend thing?

Up here in Ontario, our testing isn't anywhere near that difficult....mind you the optional training course is all of 2 days long. Not that there's anything wrong with a difficult test...in fact I'm all for harder testing, with the corollarly that the rider's be better trained. Without that last part, harder testing is pretty much pointless.

[littledog]

I hope the girl that fell has no lasting injury and isn't put off from motorcycling by this.


The test is poorly designed if doesn't account for possibility of rain. Maybee the speed should be lower, and the test area fire hosed before hand if it isn't already wet.

Here is how licensing it works where I live. A 15yr old passing a written test can get a learner permit for car driving. It requires a parent (any adult?) in the car with them. There is a driving test for an unrestricted car license that can be taken at age 16. To ride a MC larger than 125cc you need an MC endorsement on that license. MC endorsement is gotten by passing a multi-choice a written test. This is sufficient to ride any size motorcycle at age 16.

A 14yr can take the MC written test and get a motor driven cycle license. It is good for up to 125cc.

When I moved here, the state granted a license with MC endorsement, asked for or not, to everyone with a regular car license from their previous state. That is how I got my MC endorsement.

[nate-bama]

here i paid 18 dollars and passed a 20 question test


somehow

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

My question is: how much training have the riders received prior to this test? That test looks fairly difficult, especially at the speeds that they're supposed to be done at. Is there a mandatory training class...or do people just walk into the Ministry or DMV and take the test? Also, are we talking a couple of days worth of training prior to testing...or is this like a weekend thing?

Up here in Ontario, our testing isn't anywhere near that difficult....mind you the optional training course is all of 2 days long. Not that there's anything wrong with a difficult test...in fact I'm all for harder testing, with the corollarly that the rider's be better trained. Without that last part, harder testing is pretty much pointless.

How much training, I'm not sure, I know they have to have some classes (CBT) and require 2 hours road experience in one class (not parking lot, real roads) Its up to individuals to train themselves or pay for additional training after that. Some people do walk straight in off the street after the CBT.

Here in Ireland its a bit complex you have to get a permit first.
If your 16, you have 2 choices apply for a moped learners permit (M less than 50cc) or a A1 learners permit (motorbike less than 125cc). You have to answer 35 out of 40 questions correct to get the permit (as well as pay money, give id photos, give an eyesight report, etc, etc). If you are 18 you can apply for the A permit, which limits the amount of power/weight your allowed to have. The power limit is 25Kw, and the ninja has something like 24.9kw. The power weight thing only kicks in if you have more power, so you can get away with something like a Harley 883 because its so darn heavy its still slow.

The M, A1 and A licenses have power restrictions. I think the most horsepower (measured at engine, bhp) you are allowed on a 125 is 16bhp. This permit lasts up to 2 years. You have the power restriction, are not allowed on Motorways, have to wear an L vest, and are not allowed to carry a passenger. You have to hold this permit for at least 6 months before you are allowed to do a full test.

The full test is almost identical to the car test here. First you go in and meet the tester they ask you to tell them what some road signs mean and hand signals and make sure you have tax and insurance and you tires meet the minimum thread depth, then you go out to the bike, they ask you how to check certain mechanical things on the bike (like your oil level). Then they show you how the radio works. You set off with them following you in a car, they take notes of everything you do, road positioning, use of turn signals, use of mirrors. This whole 30 minute drive is done on public roads with real road users around you. At one stage you will be asked to do a U-turn within the width of the road, and walk the bike a short distance. The number of people who manage to pass first time in my local test center is 40%. About 42% for cars. I managed to pass it first time in my car but that was over 5 years ago. They only test you in daylight and if its not raining.

In 8 days I'm allowed apply for my bike test, and will probably have to wait 2 months to actually get tested, so I'll pay for a pre-test before that to make sure I'm on the right track.

If you fail? Well you keep your learner permit till it runs out, then you apply for another one, and as you have attempted the test they will give you another year, so you must get tested in that year again, fail again, get another permit for another year, etc, etc.

I legally drove my car for 5 years before I had to do a test Although for cars now I think you can only get away with 1 year before you must do a test.

When you pass the A test you are allowed to dump the L plate, you can bring a passenger, you can ride on motorways, but the power restriction stays in place for another 2 years after your pass day!

So if you want an R1 after you pass that's fine, but you'll have to get it restricted to 33bhp. People used to go to a garage, get a restrictor + cert, then go home and remove the restrictor. However this is highly illegal and if you crash you will probably end up in jail if you get out of the hospitable. Also insurance is a legal requirement here, and you would effectively have no insurance if you drop a vehicle with more power than you are licensed to have, so you'd get done for no insurance, and no license and they carry big penalties, so big if you get or have previously got a speeding ticket you will probably loose your license and be banned from driving for a couple of years.

[SteveL]

“They only test you in daylight and if its not raining.”

That must cut it down to two or three days a year in Ireland

Steve

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by SteveL

“They only test you in daylight and if its not raining.”

That must cut it down to two or three days a year in Ireland

Steve

Yeap, and its a bummer if you have to take a day off work to do the test, as the public servant here, don't work weekends. It was no coincidence I got my bike in September, and will apply now so It will be May-June-July before my test comes up. I doubt anybody gets a test in December or January. Hmm could be a handy number, wonder could I become a driving tester

[Listerineteeth]

Wow, hope that poor girl is alright! 30mph is stupid imho...

Here is Oz you have to go to a learner course, where they basically take you out to a carpark, show you how to start/stop/turn without falling off, then you have to pass a computer test, then you get your learners, which allows up to 250cc (another reason to get a ninjette!).

Then, you have to go for a MOST (Motorcycle Operator Skills Test, if you want to look into the details: www.rta.nsw.gov.au) where they do a road ride and then a skills test, where they specifically say: "You may do the test in whatever gear and speed you choose". Then after a year on your Provisional licence (three if your under 25) then you get a full licence (no tests), and THEN you can go greater than 250cc. These tests go rain hail or shine(I did mine in the rain). The good thing is they put the whole test up there, distances and all (there is a cone weave, turn and stop, emergency stop, and 'obstacle turn', which is basically a swerve) so you can find a quiet car park and chalk it out to practice (which i did RELENTLESSY, cant have been good for my clutch).

It just seems silly to have to swerve at 30mph, even in the emergency stop here they say 25kph (which I guess is 15mph or so) they even said 'Don't fall off, or end up in jail or hospital, and you'll probably pass'

have to wear an L vest

That sucks, we just have a little piece of plastic to stick under our licence plate. But most of the restrictions are the same (no passenger, power to weight etc.) There are a whole lot of other things about what you can/can't do, but by the time I list them it might be out of date.

[Flow]

Wow. I certainly don't envy new riders that take this in the rain.

In my area, you just answer a short multi-choice written test(either 20 or 25 questions, I forget) and they throw a license at you. You could be 14, hop on a 'busa and go wreck into walls to your heart's content.

[Greg_E]

What do some of these countries do if you are moving from say the USA and want to get a cycle? Do they simply trust that your old license was correct and let you go or do you need to start from the beginning? I've had my cycle license since about 1992 (took my test on a YSR50) and I would hope that they would simple assume that after passing the written test to confirm my knowledge of the road signs, that I would be able to just go.

That UK test sounds crazy, seems like they need to institute something similar to the MSF courses where you can walk away with the paperwork for your license.

[karlosdajackal]

Originally Posted by Greg_E

What do some of these countries do if you are moving from say the USA and want to get a cycle? Do they simply trust that your old license was correct and let you go or do you need to start from the beginning? I've had my cycle license since about 1992 (took my test on a YSR50) and I would hope that they would simple assume that after passing the written test to confirm my knowledge of the road signs, that I would be able to just go.

That UK test sounds crazy, seems like they need to institute something similar to the MSF courses where you can walk away with the paperwork for your license.

The have a list of countries they accept licenses from. An EU license is good across the EU. Most other countries including the US are not accepted. This is from the website of the US embassy over here
"American citizens are permitted to drive with a U.S. driver's license for the duration of a visit to Ireland; i.e., as long as their status is that of tourist and not resident. Once you decide to become resident in Ireland, regardless of how long you have been in the country, you must apply for an Irish driver's license."

I think the UK test is fine, but this one module is lethal, the first week it came in something like 15 people ended up breaking bones. I'd rather have a hard sensible test, than something like the MSF which is not even conducted on real roads with real traffic. The Irish system is not great, but at least we have to get assessed for real world driving before we can start the clock ticking to remove the restrictions (the carrot to entice you to do the test).

[cnichols79us]

In Oregon, at least when I got my endorsement, you had 2 choices: Take and MSF course, if you PASS it, your issued your Endorsement at the end (or given a slip to take to the DMV). Otherwise, you go to DMV, take the written/computer portion, if you pass that, you can schedule your riding test. To get a MC Permit, you only have to pass a written/computer test...

[Cedilla]

I have a Alabama class DMV licence, which means I can legally drive a car, motorcycle, or boat. I have no restrictions. I never had any sort of a test beside some sort of a written test(which is a joke btw.) You can get a boat licence at age 12 here,(with no restrictions at all) and a restricted moto licence at 14(under 150cc, and 5bhp. but nobody follows that, except for me.). At 16 your M-class restriction falls off automatically.

[CodE-E]

One part of the practical motorcycle test in Austria is very similar to the originally posted UK one. I had to perform all those "cone tests" on a very small parking lot, maybe half the size of the one in that video. The "swerve at 50+ km/h and then abruptly stop" test was pretty hard - I had to accelerate and brake extremely hard (did it on a Honda Hornet with ABS, though; that thing stops so much better than my 250R!). Due to the short distance after the cones, some other people being tested choked and crashed. One girl hit a cone which nearly got stuck in the wheels! She failed and went home crying.

Testing new riders with such stuff in wet weather is pretty crazy, especially if they still have to hold the same speed as in dry weather.