Need Help--Issues Starting Bike

[riding_the_edge]

Hey all,

Not the kind of first post you want to make, but I'm having some trouble with my bike.

It was running fine for the few months I owned it and starting immediately, but all of a sudden it wont start.

All I get is one or two cranks of the engine and then a weird clicking noise from the starter at which point I will stop because I imagine that's not good for the starter.

It's not a fuel issue; I'm thinking it could be the battery (hopefully), maybe a spark plug, or the starter. At times it will even start for a second but not stay running. But now it's moved more to just cranking and clicking.

Background

I had just done an oil change, but did it properly. The bike started and I was riding, and all of a sudden the horn was going off without me pressing the button. I turned it off and this was the first time I had trouble starting it back up.

Long story short, I had installed the lower fairing back in a way where the ground of the horn was touching the exhaust. That was draining my power from the starter and causing the horn to beep.

I fixed that problem, and the bike was running fine again yesterday but now won't start this morning again.


Anybody have any ideas what it could be?

Thanks in advance for the help!!

[Skippii]

Your battery is dead.

There is an relay (electromechanical switch) on the bike.
When you press the starter, and electromagnet turns the switch on (click!), which engages the starter motor.

If the battery is dead or dying, it can't supply enough voltage to run both the starter motor and the electromagnet, so as soon as the starter is switched on, the magnet turns off (Click!) which, of course, makes the switch turn back on. The cycle repeats, giving you that constant clicking noise.

[riding_the_edge]

Thanks for the quick reply. That is great to hear! I was worried it could be a big issue because it had happened all of a sudden.

I'll definitely look into the battery and hope that works.

My only problem now is that whatever mechanism holds the seat spring was broken and the seat spring was attached with a zip tie, but now is somehow or other stuck and wont open, making it tough to access the battery.

If anybody have any advice on how to get the seat off of there that would be really helpful. I can hardly turn the key. I'm scared to break the key in there and I don't think I can lift the seat enough to cut the zip tie.

[Skippii]

The horns on these bikes, by the way, are always hot. Most electrical things on the bike are grounded, and connected to the +12v when turned on. The horns are the only items on the bike which are always hot, and connected to ground to turn them on.

Generally, this makes no difference. The only exception is if something is accidentally grounded, in which case it can turn on and drain the battery.

You can jump start the bike off a car. The car can be left off, and just connect the car battery to the bike's battery + and to a ground on the chassis somewhere (doesn't really matter where, but hydrogen gas can accumulate around the charging batttery's negative electrode (since hydrogen ions (H+)produced by electrolysis of water are attracted to the opposite charge), so it's recommended that the sparks that result when disconnecting the cables are kept far away from hydrogen gas)).
Anyway, once your bike is running and warmed up, disconnect from the car and ride it around for half an hour or so, keeping the RPM over 6K to charge up the battery (it won't charge at idle).

Just make sure you've solved the short circuit or electric drain problem before you do this.

This may charge up the battery and get everything working well, or it may not. It is possible that having the battery discharged to that state may have allowed the acid to damage the lead plates (H2SO4 reacts with lead to form PbSO4, also releasing hydrogen gas, but the charge on the plates usually prevents this from happening.) Leaving a battery dead for even a day or two can start to cause damage, especially if it's cold.

Sulfated plates will prevent the battery from holding a charge, so if the bike doesn't seem to be charging after you ride (this seems to be the case as you mentioned the symptoms are getting worse) then you need to buy a new battery.

Batteries for the bike are not very expensive, and are sold at most auto places for half the price a Kawasaki dealer will charge. I believe I spent $40 or so at Walmart for mine.

Alternatively, if you want to upgrade, you can get a Lithium Ion or Lithium Iron (I have no idea why they decided to make those two different types have such similar names) battery. They'll save you 10 pounds off the bike while offering twice the power and increasing your underseat storage area. They start around $100.

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by riding_the_edge

Thanks for the quick reply. That is great to hear! I was worried it could be a big issue because it had happened all of a sudden.

I'll definitely look into the battery and hope that works.

My only problem now is that whatever mechanism holds the seat spring was broken and the seat spring was attached with a zip tie, but now is somehow or other stuck and wont open, making it tough to access the battery.

If anybody have any advice on how to get the seat off of there that would be really helpful. I can hardly turn the key. I'm scared to break the key in there and I don't think I can lift the seat enough to cut the zip tie.

If you need advice on chemical equations, electronic help, or if you want to know how to build a smart charger from scratch using power transistors and opamps, I'll be happy to help. But removing a seat...I don't have any clue!!!

But that reminds me...if you get a new battery, make SURE you charge it correctly. How well you charge it the first time determines the lifespan of the battery.

[TBC]

If the battery is still good, couldn't you just bump-start it instead of jumping it? That gets around the seat problem.

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by TBC

If the battery is still good, couldn't you just bump-start it instead of jumping it? That gets around the seat problem.

Yes.
Bikes are harder to bump start when cold. Successfully jump starting it will help to confirm the problem is the battery. If it doesn't start when you try to bump start it, you still don't know if that's the problem, though. Also, the Positive Neutral Finder makes it hard to get into any gear other than first for bump starting, which is the most difficult gear in which to bump a bike.
And unfortunately, given that the problem is getting worse, I suspect he will indeed be needing a new battery.

However, it is possible to jump-start the bike without removing the seat.
The bike can be jump started directly from the starter relay (the thing that clicks), which can be accessed by removing the side panel. This is annoying, but possible to do without removing the seat. I don't quiet remember how I know this--I'd either misplaced my keys when working on it one day, or I was just too lazy to walk around to the other side of the bike to turn the key and remove the seat. Anyway, there are two big wire connections on that thing--one is positive from the battery, the other goes to the starter. Just make sure your bike is in neutral before messing with this, since a connection will get the engine cranking without you pressing the starter--or even having the ignition on.

[Skippii]

actually, once you get those side panels off, you should be able to push the seat latch back manually.

[riding_the_edge]

So the side panels can be removed without removing the seat? I was under the impression that the seat had to come off for the side panels to come off.

That is a huge help.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful replies.

[Skippii]

It's possible, but it might be difficult. Be careful not to break off the plastic tabs.

[Jiggles]

Proper battery testing method

[JLinde1339]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Proper battery testing method

Nice!

Or you could test it like a 9-volt, if you have a tongue like Gene Simmons....
Posted via Mobile Device

[TBC]

Originally Posted by JLinde1339

Or you could test it like a 9-volt, if you have a tongue like Gene Simmons...

Or, you know, a normal tongue and some wires.

[Skippii]

You know battery terminals contain lead, right? I wouldn't recommend licking them. They might also give you a significant shock...I'm not sure, but if you think about the difference between licking a 3.7v lithium-ion battery, and 5V power supply and a 9v battery...theres a big difference. I seem to vagually recall that I've licked a 12V power supplies before, though, so I guess it wasn't all that memorable.