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Old August 30th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #1
Dino
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Crashed New 250R/Advice and Tips

Hi everyone! Just picked up my Ninja 250 about a month ago and my friends coworker recently dropped it on it's right side. I have a couple of questions regarding this situation and also some future upgrades I am debating on.

1. If the only thing I see on the bike that has been bent is the upper cowling (39137 39137-0058-18R SKU: 39137-0047-18R
STAY-COMP,UPP COWLING,BLACK) on the right side, where the front fairing attaches on the side (I bent it back to its original position) is it safe to assume that this does not affect the safety/driveability of the bike? (Unless it's used for something else other than mounting the front fairing?)

-How the bike dropped: From a parked position on a steep curb, friend went into second gear, went hard on the throttle and stopped immediately before hitting a vehicle and fell on the right side.
-Muffler was scratched, right fairing cracked a bit. Didn't seem too hard of a fall.

2. Should I just order this part brand new?

3. Kawi and a couple of other dealers have said you cannot lower the front of the bike in order to compensate lowering it from the back with a lowering link. Why is it that everywhere else [on the internet] I see people claiming that the front is lowered about an inch from the bar risers? I have heard it is not possible because of something on the front suspension that doesn't allow this. Also, what are clip ons for?

and then random riding questions...
4. Leaning: when going onto highway ramps are you supposed to lean with the bike or stay upright as much as possible and lean the bike solely (to the point where you shift your butt to stay upright)? When changing lanes, do you push your handlebars or lean, or a combination?

5. Is if safe to have just one hand on the bike as I have seen other motorcyclists do on the freeway? Hand on waist or on gas tank? Is it because it's really hard to turn the bike when going at a high speed that they are comfortable with it or do they keep the bike straight partially by using their legs? Do you ever just change lanes by using your legs to lean the bike?

6. Can wind blast actually make you lose control of your bike or will only blow you from side to side as if you were leaning the bike with your legs (when riding on freeway)

My random list of upgrades

Mods
Light Smoke Windscreen

To be installed
Fender eliminator
Flush front signal lights
Shogun No Cut frame /swing arm/bar sliders
Gear indicator
Gorilla Alarm kit
Pazzo Racing levers
Roaring Toyz Lowering Kit
Corbin Seat


Future upgrades (please let me know which ones I should prioritize.)
Tank Grip Tape $???
Steering Damper kit $430 Fatbikez or $400 from hypero
150 rear tires and 120 front $??? (Recommendations?)
steel braided brake lines $??? (Recommendations?)
dynojet kit $100 + Professional install $???
(Recommendations) -To include no backfiring
Koso rx-2 Gauge $350
Yoshimura full exhaust $600
Tyga front C/F wheel cover and heat guards $400
Skidmarx C/F Rear Tire Hugger $200
iPhone Holder
Progrip Gel grips

Friend that dropped bike
Frame Inspection, $170
Upper cowling $170
Stock Muffler Cover $80
Right Mirror $60
Foot Rest $77
Right Turn Signal $33
Helmet $90
EBay Fairings $500 [White]
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Old August 30th, 2010, 11:02 PM   #2
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Old August 31st, 2010, 12:29 AM   #3
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Welcome! I will try to answer your questions in random order. Have you taken the msf course yet?
Clipons are handlebars that "clipon" to your forks, usually below the triple tree. This will push your handlebars further forward and lower.



Not the best angle, but the handlebars in front are my woodcraft clipons I was installing. Once you install clipons, you reveal the top of your forks.



The silver cylinder at the top is one of my forks. You can adjust the fork a little which will reveal more of the top and essentially drop the front of your bike. So yes, you can lower the front.

You will want to learn how to countersteer, not lean (countersteering creates the lean). Once you're up to speed (about 10-15mph), pushing on the handlebars will turn you in that direction; ie pushing the right handlebar will cause you to go right. Just leaning will only move you minimally, you want to control your steering with the handlebars. Your legs won't steer you much at all (pushing down on the pegs is also a whole other story).

Your bike's wheels gyroscope is what keeps you upright and straight on the highway. Pushing your handlebars left/right is what cause you to lean, but your bike will want to go back upright. People one hand on the freeway because it is more comfortable when you have really low handlebars (which supersports do). There's really no need to one hand a 250 since the stance is pretty upright. Wind may blow you around so you will want to stay loose and relaxed. When you tense up, you will usually "deathgrip" the bars which adds extra unnecessary inputs to the steering. The bike and you will be around 500-600 lbs so you won't be blown lanes over, just maybe a few feet depending how strong the wind may be.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 03:26 AM   #4
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Lots of advice here.... I'd concentrate on counter steering and lots of other things will fall into place.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 03:34 PM   #5
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Old August 31st, 2010, 04:14 PM   #6
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More answers for you,

1. You should be fine. Depending on how extensive the damage was, you might get a rattle, but there is nothing safety wise you need to worry about. I would recommend not replacing this part as the bike may be dropped again in the near future especially if you are a new rider.

2. If you want a new part, it is up to you. I would ask around the forum or ebay as many people convert bikes to street fighters after a crash and some person somewhere might have it just lying around. But like I said to question 1. I'd just leave it for now.

3. It can be done, but you probably won't get much difference unless you lower the rear as well. More than likely the mechanic just doesn't want to do it. Here is some info: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ring+front+end
You already got a great answer about the Clip-ons.

4. You initiate motorcycle lean by counter-steering. As a beginner and in normal ridding conditions you should be an extension of you bike and should stay just about square to the seat. So if the bike leans 15 degrees you are also at that same 15 degree angle. As you get into more advanced/aggressive (TRACK/RACING) you will see people hanging off of the bike in the direction of the turn and knee dragging.

You only want to counter balance (that is were your bike leans and you stay upright) at low speeds; (i.e. full locked u-turns, parking lots)

5. Riding with one hand is perfectly safe as long as you are comfortable doing it and able to control the bike. I do it all the time to rest when on long roads. I still counter-steer to initiate lean, but I do use my knees a lot in directing the bike, but it is mostly unconscious as I never realize how much I do use my knees, until I am on a cruiser.

6. A wind blast could, but it shouldn't blow you out of control if you have the correct technique. Be sure to have a loose grip and guide the bike instead of manhandling it. Let the bike move around underneath you and make subtle corrections to keep it in a straight line. It really is not as complicated as it sounds. Just don't squeeze the grips any harder than you need to to keep the throttle turned and counter-steer as needed.

Some advise... If you haven't already please take the MSF course. It will make you a lot safer rider.

Also, if you have trouble understanding the concept of counter-steering--which many people do-- I recommend going to a non-busy stretch of road that you can go at least 40MPH on (I like freeway speeds, but some people are not ready for that type of speed). As you are going in a straight line, lightly push your right handlebar (this turns the wheel left) making the bike lean right and go right. Then repeat to to the left. Do this so that you can actually feel how the physics of counter-steering works. Once you feel it, you can trust it. (When you do this, keep the bike in its lane and remember to do it very slightly as you don't want to drive off the road and become a big splat).

Good luck! Post up any other questions you may have.

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Old August 31st, 2010, 05:02 PM   #7
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Look around for a MSF course near you. A lot of the riding questions will get answered, and they'll give a bunch of other stuff to think about also.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 05:34 PM   #8
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Those are all good questions and it shows you are thinking about being a better, safer rider, which is good. I know it's been said several times already, but find an MSF course and take it! It will advance your knowledge and skill by six months in one weekend.

Also, something that did me a LOT of good was reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/Proficient-Mot.../dp/1933958359
I highly recommend it.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:11 PM   #9
Dino
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WOW! Cuongism and tjkamper, you folks thoroughly answered my questions in the least amount of words! And a lot more clearly and maturely than at another forum. tjkamper's points 4 and 5 were the assurances that I knew I learned at the MSF but just forgot since it's been almost two years since I had taken it. I remember now that I do lean with the bike ("as an extension of the bike") at highway speeds but not when doing U-turns or really sharp turns when approaching a stoplight and making a right turn. Thanks also for confirming that you can lean the bike somewhat with your legs and that's how you can keep it steady on the freeway as well, definitely on the same page! I got answers back though I don't think they really understood my question as much as you did. I really appreciate everyone's feedback and I did get some good points from another forum but just not as thorough and succinct. I appreciate everyone's input!

I have highlighted in red some of the feedback I have received and have additional questions in the replies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGs View Post
4. Lean the bike into the turn...you don't need to drag a knee or shift your butt. Never push your handlebars, ever, if you want to change lanes [signal] then move your bike with your body smoothly and gently to the next lane.
Thanks for the input! I think a lot of people misinterpret when you say, "not to turn the handlebars".
I think the gist of what you're saying is that I won't actually have to turn the handlebar all the way to the left to go right but rather, because the ninja is so "flickable" (please correct me if I am wrong) that a slight push on the handlebar will be enough to start moving the bike in the direction that I want to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Converted One View Post
Yes, you want to shift your weight around when cornering. It helps to keep the bike planted.

Sure, if their friend is paying for it then genuine Kawasaki parts are great. But if he has to pay for it there is nothing wrong with the fairing you buy off of eBay. You just have to modify them a little bit.

When you say that you shift your weight when cornering, do I... 1) As I enter the turn "push right, lean right, go right looking through the turn and to where I want to exit while shifting my butt slightly to the right of the bike? and the roll on the throttle as I exit"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
Do you even ride a motorcycle? The faster you go, the harder it is to turn.

I figured that the faster you go the harder it is to turn, but it feels like even if I go 70-80 mph on the ninja, the slightest push on the handlebar starts moving the ninja either way. So when going straight, what is the correct way to keep it straight? (I resorted to almost just using three fingers to slightly keep the throttle going; haven't experimented with using the choke as "cruise control") other wise it's quite difficult to do the "one-hand-on-the-handlebar" trick, without the bike going from side to side. Like if I had my left hand on my waist or on the gas tank, If I tried to keep my right hand with a slight bend to relax, the bike wants to go in all kinds of directions. Perhaps because it's not a 600cc that this is the case? Maybe this "flickability" will go away when I upgrade to the wider tires. I know it might take away from the "flickability" of the bike, but I just want a smoother ride on the freeway. I don't quite understand yet the advantages of the skinny tires, why it was such a gigantic leap for motorcycles to have bigger tires in the back and then all of a sudden the ninja does not. Can someone please clarify this? What exactly would I gain/lose if I upgraded to wider tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnorris1982 View Post
oh and those cheap ebay fairings are ****. The paint is terrible, as soon as a rock or pebble hits the bike it will chip the paint. Don't buy them you will be sorry.


Have any suggestions of where to buy good quality OEM ones? I can find OEM parts everywhere, but fairings, even ones that are "OEM" and are sold in the U.S., I can only find on EBay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rome2010 View Post
Counter steering makes life easy when riding....

Taking one hand off is always comfy...I rest my clutch arm on the tank time to time...(wierd?)

I like to rest my arm on the gas tank too! But it seems I can only confidently do it on street speeds but not highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaland View Post
take a cruise.. doing about 20-30mph start twisting your hips side to side slowly.. theres your lower lean. easy to do when needing to change lanes or go around a slight curve.

i do this even at 70-80mph speeds with no problem at all..

i'd answer other questions but im just to lazy lol..

I took the MSF Basic Rider's Course about a year ago and haven't rode since I purchased the bike about a month ago. I tried reading through the booklet but didn't have much elaboration on turning. I just remember there was an exercise where we would swerve from side to side and another exercise where we'd be going straight and do a sudden swerve from side to side, but I can't for the life of me remember if it was at cruising speed or below and if I would swerve from side to side using "countersteer" or leaning my body instead, from the hips, and keeping my head up and straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
OP... you're brave (or maybe stupid) for letting a friends co-worker ride your bike. Sounds like you dont even know the guy.

Well, when I initially met my friend's coworker, he had said that he used to ride 400cc bikes for a long time. So I had assumed he'd be okay on the bike; turns out he hadn't ridden in a while. But he is more than happy to replace the fairings, I felt kind of bad still that he fell and almost don't really want him to pay for anything just because... I don't know why. But I really did feel dumb after telling my insurance that I dropped the bike! I should have just told them someone tipped it over because now, they won't pay for anything!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goingtoscotland View Post
that is imprecise and it takes longer to accomplish than counter steering. in fact it's a mark of an inexperienced rider. you see someone riding down the highway changing lanes. they move their body, then a second later the bike follows. if you counter steer it is far far more precise and it is immediate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaland View Post
you dont see me moving my body.. its all one motion..
i said what i said so he can get the idea of how it works.

Yes, again thanks for the input everyone, I have been reassured that turning/changing lanes should be primarily consisting of "countersteer" but it still requires a little bit of everything, from turning your head to leaning with your body etc... Just forgot that "countersteering" is the starting point, even for just changing lanes. And when I do change lanes, I kind of do three things at once and everyone has confirmed this. However, the only thing I'm still not sure about is the whole exiting a freeway ramp scenario. I'm guessing for the majority of the time, since I always take the ramps at the posted speed limit, I won't have to shift my entire lower body off the bike and have my head to the right and forward. What I have been doing is just A) Push right, lean right, go right B) Look through the turn to where I want to exit C) While rolling on throttle, I have my body straight up and head turned with the bike leaning a little to the right.
Am I supposed to shift my butt to the left a little or just keep it upright like the rest of my body? And when doing a U-Turn, since it's not at cruising speed, I turn the handlebars like a regular bicycle but do I shift my butt at all to either side? I guess my brain still gets confused and is trying to adjust how to do turns correctly at highway speeds vs slowing down to a stoplight and turning right. I know I will ultimately have to ride more to figure all this out but ideally would like to have the correct procedures down first.
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Old August 31st, 2010, 07:15 PM   #10
Dino
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Yes, I also agree tjkamper that I definitely will not buy new parts as of now because it's not really going to affect my turning/driveability with the damaged cowling. I hadn't thought about not buying new fairings and now I remember why I didn't really want him to pay for new fairings because I was thinking that I am still a new rider and could possibly drop the bike again in the future.

What do you folks think about the tire upgrades? What exactly will wider tires do on front and back and what will I lose/gain?
Thoughts on dynojet kit or steering damper?
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Old September 1st, 2010, 04:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino View Post
Yes, I also agree tjkamper that I definitely will not buy new parts as of now because it's not really going to affect my turning/driveability with the damaged cowling. I hadn't thought about not buying new fairings and now I remember why I didn't really want him to pay for new fairings because I was thinking that I am still a new rider and could possibly drop the bike again in the future.

What do you folks think about the tire upgrades? What exactly will wider tires do on front and back and what will I lose/gain?
Thoughts on dynojet kit or steering damper?
Larger tires on the back look an awful lot better, but they do not help you in any way other than keeping you out of those construction grooves a little better really, they're larger/heavier, meaning they slow acceleration, and they do make the bike a little less "flickable", that being said, you couldn't pay me to remove my 150 rear

Dynojet and a full exhaust is your best bet, improves throttle response, making the bike seem like it has more power (mind you with a new exhaust it will have a few extra hp too)

Steering Damper, well everyone here will probably tell you it's not necessary, and I guess they're right, but I am still looking for one.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 07:29 AM   #12
Dino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demp View Post
Larger tires on the back look an awful lot better, but they do not help you in any way other than keeping you out of those construction grooves a little better really, they're larger/heavier, meaning they slow acceleration, and they do make the bike a little less "flickable", that being said, you couldn't pay me to remove my 150 rear

Dynojet and a full exhaust is your best bet, improves throttle response, making the bike seem like it has more power (mind you with a new exhaust it will have a few extra hp too)

Steering Damper, well everyone here will probably tell you it's not necessary, and I guess they're right, but I am still looking for one.
Yes, I definitely agree with all your points. I do want to get fatter tires partially for the cosmetic look but also for the reason that anything to make the bike lower (hence the upgrade to the Corbin seat) I would like to attempt before I resort to the lowering kit. But mostly I want the fatter tires because I want a little bit more stability on the freeway, it's unnerving enough always getting tossed around by the wind! Every little jolt and shake there gets me thinking different ways of my imminent death! The steering damper is another upgrade that I want to get for the same reason, which will hopefully add some weight and stabilize the bike more on the freeway. The two choices that seem worthwhile are the Scott's Performance and Hypero, the lack of funds is the only stopping me right now from putting them in my cart! :P

And yes, I am upgrading a lot of things on the bike because I don't really think I'm going to need a lot more power anytime soon. It's been a year since I took the MSF course for the reason that I didn't want to get a motorcycle anymore after taking it. The sheer amount of power and weight was enough to intimidate me and make me reconsider riding at all. That and all the accidents that my two other brother's got in with brand new bikes and the death of a local student stopped me in my shoes. But then after riding my Honda Ruckus and having it STOLEN in my apartment complex, I decided that as long as I am responsible with the bike I should be okay. Now here I am!

Regarding the Dynojet I hear a lot of people have backfiring issues or that you have to do all sorts of things to make sure it's installed properly and that a lot of performance shops aren't installing it correctly, what's your experience with it? Also what kind of tires did you upgrade to? And if you get fatter tires in the rear should you also get fatter tires in the front to even out?
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Old September 1st, 2010, 07:34 AM   #13
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Bridgestone Battlax BT016 is what I put on, I don't think there's any need to change the size of the front unless you really want to. As far as the jet kit backfiring, I believe those are isolated incident - I believe the majority of the people on these forums have either shimmed their needles or installed a jet kit without a problem, take a peak here: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...highlight=Shim that is how a lot of people have gotten away without actually buying the jet kit, they simply use a few washers. The only difference you'll have is that it can't be adjusted quite as precisely as the actual kit.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 11:28 AM   #14
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I am debating between the Pirelli Diablo Strada or the Michellin Pilots. Hopefully it'll still fit when I get the carbon fiber rear tire huggers!

The Dynojet Kit I will have installed by the local tuning shop, $400 (including removal of emissions??) to include tuning. But I'm going to have to wait until I have the Yoshimura carbon fiber exhaust (which I think is the most overpriced part that I will be buying), so that the tuning may be done with it installed. I want to get a lot more riding experience before I have the Yoshi exhaust put on because I don't want to drop the bike and there goes my $600 exhaust.

So looks like the steering damper, tires and the carbon fiber pieces will be going on before any tuning, hopefully I can get some pictures up soon
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Old September 1st, 2010, 11:38 AM   #15
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how long have you been riding??? if not long, seems to me you should spend more time learning how to ride than fixing up the bike.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 11:55 AM   #16
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Keep friends off bike. What if he hit someone's car or a person?
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Old September 1st, 2010, 12:20 PM   #17
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I think you're trying to solve a problem that won't be there as you get more seat time. The 250 does fine on the highway and I think you're just not used to it yet. Better tires offer better grip which is used to cornering, not really for freeway speeds. Better tires typically wear out faster too because of said grip.
IMO, a steering damper is a waste on a 250. Have you played around with the preload yet?
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11956

It's free and it can make a huge difference in handling. If you're in your first few months of riding, don't change anything yet (unless cosmetic). How you feel now will change as you get more miles under your belt. You might change something out now and then realize you like it better stock.
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Old September 1st, 2010, 01:45 PM   #18
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Yeah, so far I haven't really purchased anything yet that affects the ride too much. Most of it has only been cosmetic except for the lowering kit. Looks like I will just wait on the dynojet and exhaust until later as well as the damper if I still do want it.

I'm itching to ride! (been riding for about two months) But having to use the muffler as my right foot rest isn't so great and I've just taken off ALL the fairings and gas tank. I had hoped to bring the fairings in for a paint job but the guy (bumper doc) said it would cost a lot more to fix and paint the one fairing and to just buy ones from ebay or paint the fairings myself.

I am also still waiting to put all the parts I ordered on the bike so that when I bring it to Fun Bike Center (San Diego), I won't have to take the frame sliders off once they put it on for free. That is kind of the reason of why I have been hitting the forums so hard regarding all these upgrades because A) I know I won't ever want to upgrade to a bigger bike and B) It's going to cost me a lot more to have to remove the frame sliders and have them put back on if I decide to jet the bike (and if I want to jet the bike, I want to have the exhaust on already so it's tuned together) I figured I'd have until Sept 9th to make up my mind because that's when the right footrest is scheduled to come in ($75 shipped from Michigan, should have bought somewhere closer )

Regarding the rear shock settings, am I supposed to move it to #1 because I weigh about 130lbs?

Note: Just FYI, the reason FBC is doing the labor for free is because they had originally quoted me $40 for install of the lowering link and $40 for the frame sliders but when I drove my bike there, one of the techs changed it to over $400 for both. Outraged, I wrote an e-mail on the site and they gladly called me back and let me know they would install everything for free.
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Old September 11th, 2010, 10:48 AM   #19
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