2 weeks ago today....lessons learned

[harlumjp]

So 2 weeks ago I got my first taste of asphalt.
The main thing I took away from this was that to never feel too confident while your riding. The conditions were great: sunny, about 74 degrees, wide open 3-lane road, speed about 40-50mph.

As I approached an intersection, I spotted a black car waiting to turn right onto the road I was on. We both looked at each other. He crept up. He stopped. About 100 feet before the intersection he starts to roll again. I hit my horn, try to quickly glance in my mirror and attempt a lane change. He swings a wide right turn across lanes and he hits me...

My entire right side of my bike & body smashed into his left side of the car. Luckily I didn't fly off and I skidded about 5-6 feet. Wearing a helmet, leather jacket, bike gloves, boots and jeans which thankfully didn't rip. I walked away extremely lucky in my view. I ended up with road rash and some bad swelling on my knee, leg and ankle as well as back pain... I am still waiting for MRI results as I may have a small fracture in my leg and I'm still out of work and not walking normally...but the bottom line was I survived and felt so lucky...

Still unsure of my riding future....as well as the condition of the bike. It wouldn't start obviously. The plastics are cracked and scuffed on both sides, exhaust pipe appears bent, gear shifter broken. It still rolls fine though...Anyone out there have any opinions on the bike itself? (see pics).

Moral of my story: I was feeling great that day and confident... I saw the car and possibly could have reduced speed right away. Its easy to assume drivers will always obey the right of way. Please ride safe out there everyone! & ATGATT!!! It saved me a hell of a lot of extra pain.

[Yasko]

Sorry to read this post...I wish you well...God bless you...

[ungluck]

he probably said..hmm, i'm an idiot i bet i can go ALL THREE LANES before this bike gets here at the last second.

glad your ok, def could've been wore. hope you heal up, quick question. was it deemed his fault, considering most states law is to turn into near law, after regarding the right of way law.

[Alex]

Youch! Hard to say about the bike, you need to have it looked at to determine what needs to be fixed and what may not need to be replaced. What is the insurance situation?

From the description, it appears that the car would be at fault in this accident. But - one thing that does stand out in your msg is the use of the horn to try and influence what the car might do before taking evasive action. Next time (and I hope you're back on two wheels to have such a next time), all focus and attention in a situation like this is to get the bike out of the way of the hazard, whether it's braking, swerving, accelerating, etc. Only after you are 100% sure you're going to be able to clear the obstacle, then worry about the horn to signal your, umm, "displeasure" in the silly choices other drivers make on the road.

[HKr1]

That really sucks! Hope you heal up soon. It's good to have a great day feeling confident. Just never assume the other guys are going to the right thing, assume they wont.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by ungluck

...considering most states law is to turn into near law, after regarding the right of way law.

What's near law? My insurance company has said this sounds like it will be his fault. They are still waiting for the police report and for the other guy's insurance company before we can do anything. But my company said that it sounds like he failed to yield which will be his fault...

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by Alex

But - one thing that does stand out in your msg is the use of the horn to try and influence what the car might do before taking evasive action. Next time (and I hope you're back on two wheels to have such a next time), all focus and attention in a situation like this is to get the bike out of the way of the hazard, whether it's braking, swerving, accelerating, etc. Only after you are 100% sure you're going to be able to clear the obstacle, then worry about the horn to signal your, umm, "displeasure" in the silly choices other drivers make on the road.

!!! You are so right Alex...That's why I was pretty pissed at myself afterwards, what I could've done and knew I SHOULD have done. Like I said, I think I was a bit too confident that day and forgot my rule#1: everyone out there will try and kill you. There was a witness that was the car behind the one that hit me and she said she heard my horn loud and clear. The guy who hit me is 82 years old, so I'm figuring he didn't hear it...

[FrugalNinja250]

I've experienced several scenarios that began like this. I assume the horn (which I can barely hear past my earplugs) will be inaudible through the closed windows of a car at any distance. Instead what I do is flash my high-beams whenever I get the slightest hint that they're not seeing me. On more than one occasion a car that has started to move slams on the brakes when I do that and an accident was likely avoided.

Honestly, I truly believe that if you could show on a screen what many drivers see when they're looking in your direction (no, not at you, just your direction) you'd see a motorcycle-shaped blank spot where you were.

Given the damage on the car I'd say it's a sure bet your bike is totaled in the sense the frame is likely bent. You've got a pretty sizable settlement coming your way from the driver's insurance, hopefully you don't have to take them to court. Given the nature of your injuries and the circumstances, I would seriously entertain the notion of getting a lawyer because I'm betting the insurance company's going to try lowballing you by $10-20 thousand bucks. Check out these guys:

http://www.aimncom.com/

And don't sign any medical releases until you're completely healed. Though it's possible to go back after them for secondary claims after doing so, it's a lot more difficult and expensive in both time and effort.

Glad you "walked" away from this one, over four thousand of us won't be this year.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by harlumjp

What's near law? My insurance company has said this sounds like it will be his fault. They are still waiting for the police report and for the other guy's insurance company before we can do anything. But my company said that it sounds like he failed to yield which will be his fault...

He meant to say "near lane". Most states have laws that require turning the vehicle into the nearest available lane. These laws were written specifically to prevent accidents similar to this.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I've experienced several scenarios that began like this. I assume the horn (which I can barely hear past my earplugs) will be inaudible through the closed windows of a car at any distance. Instead what I do is flash my high-beams whenever I get the slightest hint that they're not seeing me. On more than one occasion a car that has started to move slams on the brakes when I do that and an accident was likely avoided.

What happened was we both looked right at each other and he stopped so I assumed he was not going to start moving again! I am aware of the horn situation on our bikes being nearly useless and I usually use the high beam trick when lane splitting, but not in this case...

Honestly, I truly believe that if you could show on a screen what many drivers see when they're looking in your direction (no, not at you, just your direction) you'd see a motorcycle-shaped blank spot where you were.

Agree 100%!

I would seriously entertain the notion of getting a lawyer because I'm betting the insurance company's going to try lowballing you by $10-20 thousand bucks.

Yup, I'm already in contact with one that was referred to me by a friend. Question is how much do lawyers usually take from your settlement? Is it a fixed percentage or does it depend on how much work they have to do? He did say he won't get paid if I don't get paid....

[Live2ride]

Maybe his hearing aid broke or he simply is one of those 82 year old hooligans that we all see driving around town blasting there doggum music . Either way it does seem like it was obviously his fault, just remember that money isn't everything.

[wvninja]

That sucks. sorry to hear but glad your ok!

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

just remember that money isn't everything.

Very true. I mean I hate to look at it with the view of "I'm gonna get paid" but at the same time it would help to get something besides a better idea of defensive driving out of this bad experience. Again I feel so blessed and lucky that I walked away from this...

[Jinx250]

Whenever I am approaching another vehicle who can violate my right of way I always weave side to side within my lane so the single dot fo the headlight is no longer a "stationary" object. I also get off the gas and cover the clutch and brake.

PI lawyers typically take 1/3 of any settlement. I would recommend that you do not file suit unless absolutely necessary - remember, CA law says you have 2 years from the date of the accident to pursue the injury claim. This does not mean "Don't seek legal advice" just don't agree to let someone represent you unless you feel it's necessary.

There are 3 components for financial recovery:

1. Bike - if you have full coverage, run the claim through YOUR company - you'll get a better settlement, and they will recover what they pay you from the other guy's insurance. If you do not have receipts for mods to your bike, take them off, since any settlement will be for comparable bikes with similar mileage in your area, and you will not be comp'd for mods you can't document the "value" of typically.

2. Gear - every piece of gear that was damaged in **any** way is requried to be reimbursed. Typically it's prorated from the date of purchase except the helmet, which must be reimbursed at 100% of purchase price.

3. Personal injury, medical costs, loss of earnings, and any other costs/losses not covered in 1 and 2.

The drawback to going to a PI attorney is that they typically send you to a Dr. of their choosing. On the face of it that sounds OK, excpet when the settlement comes, they not only take their 1/3 off the top, they then take the costs of "their" Dr. What's left over is yours. Good for them, not so good for you spending on the settlement amount. Also, if you went to the dr already on your own insurance, you may get a call later on donw the line form their subrogationdepartment, demaning that they be reimbursed for the cost of your care from the settlement (and it's 100% legal), further reducing what you were left with. If you feel that the ins co is jacking you around it's better to go to the state insurance regualtory board - insurance cos are more scared of them than they are of lawyers.

Just my .02. YMMV.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

There are 3 components for financial recovery...
Just my .02. YMMV.

Wow- thanks for your insight! So much to think about and figure out still...

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by harlumjp

What happened was we both looked right at each other and he stopped so I assumed he was not going to start moving again! I am aware of the horn situation on our bikes being nearly useless and I usually use the high beam trick when lane splitting, but not in this case...

What actually happened was that though he was appearing to look right at you in fact he was just looking in your direction for cars and not seeing any. He didn't see any motorcycles because he wasn't looking for any.

Flashing the high beams (note, not leaving them on steady, but just flashing them) is the best (and only one that even works) attention grabber I've used. Drivers equate flashing lights with police, and drivers almost always see the police.

On the lawyer deal, get a couple of consults, you'll have to pay a little but you don't have to actually hire one. A nice lawyer should be able to ballpark you a figure you should expect for the different categories. One will be for property damage (bike and gear) and one will be for medical. Pain and suffering/aggrevation/loss of time/pay for doctor appointments, etc, may either be covered under medical or another category. The latter category is where the meat of the settlement will be. Likely for the bike and gear you'll be offered maybe 3-4k at most.

That's why I suggested getting a lawyer, preferably one through AIM. The insurance co may just wave $5-6k under your nose with the hope you'll take it and run, whereas with representation the final amount may actually be 40K. A friend of mine got run off the road by a texter last year on his Ducati, totaled the bike and banged him up though not as bad as you, he ended with with over $40K for the final. The insurance co's first offer was barely enough to cover the bike and actual medical expenses to date of the offer. That's when he got a lawyer. Didn't have to sue, either, the insurance co recognized that they were now dealing with someone who knew how things really worked.

Get a couple of legal consults then decide which way to go from there, that's the best advice I can offer.

[rockNroll]

You took your evasive action time and used it to sound your horn. Horns are for waking up the person that fell asleep during the red light, not to prevent an accident.

[ungluck]

what you perceive as eye contact could be daydreaming to him ya know?

i meant the turn to near lane law, which is almost all states, if not all.

[Blackwidow]

my gosh...i'm glad you're ok for the most part, it could have been much worse. however, i wish i didn't look at those pics..i don't have a strong tummy.

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by harlumjp

Very true. I mean I hate to look at it with the view of "I'm gonna get paid" but at the same time it would help to get something besides a better idea of defensive driving out of this bad experience. Again I feel so blessed and lucky that I walked away from this...

I'm not saying you don't deserve compensation, which you obviously do deserve. Just don't get money hungry and go for all the guys money, that is, unless he's an a$$hole. If he is then go ahead and take it all! jk

[JMcDonald]

Thanks for posting, and good discussion! The only thing I'd add is....


Knee armor!!! Your knees and shins are the most likely thing to be injured in a crash, so ATGATT must include knee / shin armor or its not really "ATG" .
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58451

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Get a couple of legal consults then decide which way to go from there, that's the best advice I can offer.

Thanks for your insight again- I am doing exactly that..I have had a couple of good referrals already.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

You took your evasive action time and used it to sound your horn. Horns are for waking up the person that fell asleep during the red light, not to prevent an accident.

Couldn't agree with you more. I chalk it up to a. my inexperience (7 months on my 250) and b. Too much confidence/assumption that the driver would do the right thing. Lesson learned!

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by ungluck

what you perceive as eye contact could be daydreaming to him ya know?

i meant the turn to near lane law, which is almost all states, if not all.

Yes true. I think the main reason I honked also was that his window was half down and he appeared to already look right at me.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by Blackwidow

my gosh...i'm glad you're ok for the most part, it could have been much worse. however, i wish i didn't look at those pics..i don't have a strong tummy.

Sorrry! Title edited...

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by JMcDonald

Knee armor!!! Your knees and shins are the most likely thing to be injured in a crash, so ATGATT must include knee / shin armor or its not really "ATG" .
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58451

Yes I was quite dumb on that part, especially since I am having issues with my knee now. Its still swollen and might have possibly fractured it. I'm just thankful I wasn't like some squids I see at school in t-shirts, shorts, and skater shoes. God they better pray.

[JMcDonald]

Oh yeah, I was just pointing that out in the future so you know there is even more to be done (knee armor is often forgotten, but as you can see, it is quite important)!

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Flashing the high beams (note, not leaving them on steady, but just flashing them) is the best (and only one that even works) attention grabber I've used. Drivers equate flashing lights with police, and drivers almost always see the police.

I don't agree with this idea at all. In my part of the country flashing your high beams means "go ahead". You may get the driver's attention doing that, but you're also going to confuse the hell out of him and make him more likely to do something stupid. And if he's visiting from my part of the country, he's very likely to pull right into your path even if he did see you and was prepared to wait.
The OP's mistake was assuming the other driver saw him and not anticipating that the other car might pull out at any moment. Even if you make eye contact it doesn't mean you're being seen. Most of the time they're looking right through you to the cars behind you. I always slow when I see a car is positioned to cross my path in any way. Just enough that if I am called on to avoid or brake, I can do so without incident. I'm not too keen on having to rely on panic stopping or high-speed swerving to save my ass and this method has proved it's worth numerous times already.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith

I always slow when I see a car is positioned to cross my path in any way. Just enough that if I am called on to avoid or brake, I can do so without incident.

Yep....it sucks cus I probably do that 99% of the time....the one time I don't...overly confident riding.

[bluesinorbit]

First incident or close call due to over-confidence is an unavoidable huddle for all except the most cautious of us. I experienced mine almost two weeks ago as well and we are very lucky to be walking away.

Extra caution is more than warranted in OC. The traffic is so impatient and some people just flat-out ignore right-of-way and other traffic law. Any time of the day on Beach Blvd. A.K.A. "Biaaach Blvd." is a testimony to that. I took my bike out on PCH today from Huntington Beach all the way to Dana Point, and at one point, a truck was stopped in my path blocking two out of three lanes. All it would've took was a few seconds of distraction on my part and I would probably be in a hospital right now.

Let me know if you are in need of a good mechanic. I found a cool guy in Stanton.

Hope you get back to 100% soon.

[TygaUSA.com]

Heal up soon!! If you need a lawyer my buddy who rides is in LA, his office is in the south bay, PM if you want info. He does moto accident work!

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith

I don't agree with this idea at all. In my part of the country flashing your high beams means "go ahead".

Srsly?

That's crazy!

You mean that someone sitting on a side road would turn out onto the road in front of oncoming traffic if one of those cars barreling their way at speed flashed their high beams?

That'd get you killed here, and anywhere else I've driven too.

Around here you're expected to judge closure rates and not enter the roadway if doing so would cause someone to have to brake to avoid a collision. I would never pull out in front of someone no matter how many times they flashed their lights at me.

Crazy...

[Live2ride]

Everywhere I've ever driven, flashing your lights means for the other person to go, I've driven up and down the east coast though, never out west.

[CThunder-blue]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

Everywhere I've ever driven, flashing your lights means for the other person to go, I've driven up and down the east coast though, never out west.

flashing brights can definitely be misconstrued as a "go ahead" signal. What the OP might consider is getting the headlight modulators installed on his next bike. (if he gets another one)

What I do is keep an eye on my rear and blind spots when in this type of situation. I do this in my car and bike. This way, I know if I need to do a quick lane change, I can do so without getting into much trouble. In the OP's situation where the cager was probably going to cut him off to get to the far left lane, this may not have helped.

Glad to see you're alive, but please invest in some riding pants that has knee armor. If you must wear jeans, get armor that straps to your legs. I think jeans are ok for street driving, but for highway speeds, invest in some riding pants or jeans that are reinforced to resist coming apart. Both will be expensive, but you should be able to afford it if you get a settlement.

Some people don't belong on the road at all. I don't understand why old people don't need to take the driving test as much as the younger people. I think they should be tested every 2 years after age 70 on skills or get their license revoked.

[Live2ride]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I don't understand why old people don't need to take the driving test as much as the younger people. I think they should be tested every 2 years after age 70 on skills or get their license revoked.

I completely agree, some people should only be driving one of these ->

[ahenthus]

Frugal and Live2 are correct. A flash of your headlights gives the opposing driver your nod to either make their turn in front of you or cross your path. Having said that, as a flashee I do not automatically assume that the flasher's action is all I need to pull out. If I do decide to pull in front it is only because my little pea brain has processed enough info for my satisfaction, i.e.; positive eye contact, speed of flasher, etc. It's not a call to make without taking all possibilities into consideration. If I flash my headlights to someone you can bet if they don't make their move I'll be creeping along at a very low speed when going by them or I'll stop short of them.

[bluesinorbit]

Originally Posted by ahenthus

positive eye contact

Like everyone says, you cannot trust eye contact at all. For my own safely, I will always ride defensively with two assumptions about other drivers: they are not aware of my presence and they will do the wrong thing regardless. All it takes is a cell-phone conversation, impatience, compromised emotional state, or plain disregard or ignorance of the traffic rules, and I see all those things on the road everyday.

[ahenthus]

Originally Posted by ahenthus

Frugal and Live2 are correct. A flash of your headlights gives the opposing driver your nod to either make their turn in front of you or cross your path. Having said that, as a flashee I do not automatically assume that the flasher's action is all I need to pull out. If I do decide to pull in front it is only because my little pea brain has processed enough info for my satisfaction, i.e.; positive eye contact, speed of flasher, etc. It's not a call to make without taking "ALL" possibilities into consideration. If I flash my headlights to someone you can bet if they don't make their move I'll be creeping along at a very low speed when going by them or I'll stop short of them.

Blues, read my whole post. Pay close attention to my last sentence. I would also never trust eye contact alone. It's only with the whole package present that i would proceed. Out of my 50 years of motorcycling I have not had any type of incident since 1977 when I, while not paying proper attention in Honolulu rush hour traffic, did a slow rear end into the car ahead. Nothing like my earlier two more serious incidents. I had to lay it down once due to a 93 year old unlicensed driver pulling out into my path in early 1976 and my forks got clotheslined just under my headlight on I20 in Shreveport (1977). I went over the handlebars and tumbled a good ways but did not get seriously hurt. I believe the car ahead of me had just clipped a light pole and the wire was hanging at just the right height to miss me and grab the bike instead. Except for 1976 and 1977 I've been very fortunate. Before that I guess I was just plain lucky but after that I'm sure it has been my defensive driving skills that have enabled me to remain incident free. Please don't take this as a flame but only as a clarification.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by Live2ride

Everywhere I've ever driven, flashing your lights means for the other person to go, I've driven up and down the east coast though, never out west.

I can definitely see how this can go both ways...If you flash your lights and noticeably slow down, almost to a stop (say in a small residential area), I would probably take that as a "go ahead"
BUT....
If you are coming 40+ mph down a road and flashing repetitively, I would wait for you to cross my path.

[harlumjp]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

I think jeans are ok for street driving, but for highway speeds, invest in some riding pants or jeans that are reinforced to resist coming apart.

Yes I thought about knee armor before, which probably would have only added 30 seconds to me getting ready to ride every day, but I was lazy on that part.

I'm still amazed my jeans did not rip when I slid?! Still the impact between me and the car caused more damage than if I were wearing knee pads...