2005 Ninja 250r Dying while riding?

[Aeather]

Hello, I have a ninja 250 it has 5.6k miles on it.
I bought it used for 1800. The previous owner states he had the carbs cleaned the valves readjusted and the battery replaced. I looked on the battery there is a bit of corrosion.. Anyways.

I was riding down the road the other day about 80. Then I went up a hill it started to die. got up the hill. Parked it ran fine. then went back down the hill then it died again. This time it took a while to get it started.
I replaced the spark plugs turns out the previous ones werent gapped correctly.


Then it died multiple times today while driving it. It would be full throttle and sit there and putter then finally die. Then I would jump it. Then same process. It would be going about 7-8k rpm then slowly start to die down in power.

Any ideas? Thanks.

-Aeather

[lgk]

Charging system?

[Fappy]

I'm still a newb here, but: It definitely sounds like a fuel issue if you ask me... A big hint is the hill part of it. Could be a clogged fuel filter, for instance, or maybe water in the carb fuel bowls that sloshes up when you're going up/down a hill. Did you notice any difference when you had a full or empty tank? Or when you opened the throttle fully would it die more often?

I would start by trying to drain the carb bowls.

Also welcome to the forums

[Rollingmenace]

I agree either charging system if you actually have to jump it... If the battery dead that's your answer.. If not its fuel and from the sound of it it could be a starvation issue there possibly something as simple as a clogged filter that can't keep up with the demand of a accelerating bike

[csmith12]

Welcome Kolten!

Your in good hands here.

[Aeather]

Thanks everyone for the welcome, and I'm pretty well off when it comes to mechanical things, I know a lot of about cars and engine and work on them and such. Only 19. From what I'm hearing around and what I've researched it might a fuel issue, because I can sit there and crank the starter and it wont start up. So it sounds like its getting spark just not igniting. Therefore might be a fuel issue. The best thing I could try here in a like 5 minutes. Currently at work. Is opening up the gas tank cap and then cranking it?

[Jiggles]

Most likely its a venting issue in the gas tank, opening the gas cap should relieve the vacuum and allow gas to flow again

[Rollingmenace]

Well mAn that is an option but I would get home and check it out I'd drain the bowls to ensure no water in there then there are several things you could consider ..1 bad fuel flow to carb.. Easiest would be a clogged filter or pinched line.or bad tank venting like jiggles said.... That would be my first guess and is lean toward that could also be an issue with the vac actuated petcock you could test that theroy by just letting it idle for 10-15 if it doesn't die the petcock is working correctly... 2 could just be crud in the carb that gets stirred up from riding but that is doubtful... One thing to keep In mind that when someone is selling a bike it's easy to say its had carbs serviced cuz you can't tell untill u pull em apart... Or sometimes in their mind just spraying through them with carb cleaner or running seafoam in tank is cleaning them but in reality you need to pull em to really service a carb on a bike

[Fappy]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Most likely its a venting issue in the gas tank, opening the gas cap should relieve the vacuum and allow gas to flow again

^Definitely try this first too; I forgot that this is a relatively common problem that people have been having, with pretty similar issues to what you're having.

If opening the gas tank solves the problem, then you might have to drill a few small holes in it to fix (there's a DIY somewhere?)

[Aeather]

Well I went out and started it. Seemed a bit of trouble starting like a not normal start.

Left it running idled fine.

Then turned it off then pulled up the gas tank cap, seems to idle higher. So I'm gonna test this when I get off work of having the gas tank cap open when I drive it home. And I noticed like a orange color residue on the side of the cap around what looked to be like a opening to the breather tube down at the bottom of the tank.?

[Fappy]

Do you have a spare key? Next time it starts to die while you're riding, pop open the gas tank while you're riding and see if it recovers right away. (be safe about this).

It definitely sounds like it's not venting properly, which would prevent fuel from flowing to the carburetor due to the decreased pressure in the tank.

[Jiggles]

Know what sounds like a terrible idea?

Originally Posted by Fappy

Next time it starts to die while you're riding, pop open the gas tank while you're riding and see if it recovers right away. (be safe about this).

That.

[Fappy]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Know what sounds like a terrible idea?


That.

Because?

[Jiggles]

[Fappy]

I think it's an easy way to verify the issue... If you leave the key in the tank, and just twist it open while you're in a safe area at a low speed... I don't see the harm. It need not take more than a second to do.

[Aeather]

Well we will find out here in 30 minutes if that works. If not what else could it be.

[Rollingmenace]

Originally Posted by Rollingmenace

Well mAn that is an option but I would get home and check it out I'd drain the bowls to ensure no water in there then there are several things you could consider ..1 bad fuel flow to carb.. Easiest would be a clogged filter or pinched line.or bad tank venting like jiggles said.... That would be my first guess and is lean toward that could also be an issue with the vac actuated petcock you could test that theroy by just letting it idle for 10-15 if it doesn't die the petcock is working correctly... 2 could just be crud in the carb that gets stirred up from riding but that is doubtful... One thing to keep In mind that when someone is selling a bike it's easy to say its had carbs serviced cuz you can't tell untill u pull em apart... Or sometimes in their mind just spraying through them with carb cleaner or running seafoam in tank is cleaning them but in reality you need to pull em to really service a carb on a bike

[Aeather]

Alright so.I got off of work. Started it. Fine idles fine. Pulled the throttle didn't respond as well as it does. Pulled it same thing alright put on choke road it around same thing
Seemed to take forever to respond. Then road across the street normal throttle response. All this while having the gas tank open. Get home which is like 3-5 miles. Sit there let it idle for a good 10 minutes alright nothing come back out still idling at about 1300-1800 rpms put on gas cap let run for 15. Still running. What the hell. I'm stumped.

[Aeather]

Also I checked inside the airbox under the seat.. I didn't see a filter anywhere...??? So..

[Motofool]

Had you looked in there before?

Definitely you need a new filter, not to solve this problem, but to protect the cylinders and pistons from premature wear.

For the current problem, check this thread:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=113557

[Aeather]

Yes, the filter by the nipple (if it is still inside the hose) can be removed and blown with the mouth.

The one inside the tank can counter-flushed by blowing air through the hose with the tank cap opened.


"

You stated the the filter by the nipple? Where is that at?

And the hose that comes down from the tank under the seat right?

[Motofool]

The filter by the nipple: Originally, there is tiny mesh filter inside the lower end of the hose that feeds the carbs. I call nipple the little thing over which the hose connects.

The cockpit has two hoses: the smaller one is vacuum coming from the carbs, the bigger one is the fuel hose. The cockpit is vacuum activated, so it should not allow fuel flow in any open position if the engine is not working (when working properly).

See these:

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Rebuild...tcock/fuel_tap

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

[Aeather]

And if it matters.. I've never ever heard my gas tank whine...


So that little venting hole I need to make sure it is clean?

and the nipple you are talking about that is coming from the carbs right? I've seen that vaccum hose go down to the carbs. So its the hose->carb part that I need to take off and make sure its clean? I would understand more if you had pictures..

[Motofool]

Some tanks never do.

Sorry, I don't have pics and can't take any until tomorrow.

Yes, if you could verify that there is a good flow of gas to the carbs, then we could center on cleaning the carbs or any electrical problem.

Clogging of tank venting and gas filters, as well as leaking vacuum hose or defective cockpit are the most common problems.

Are you sure that there is nothing loose inside the air box that could restrict the flow of air into the carbs?

Did you drain both carbs' bowls, just in case they had water?

[Aeather]

Well i wanted to see if it was a fuel issue. My pet cock is leaking fuel out of the front. I also took off the fuel line and turned it to on. Is it suppose to be a dripping or a constant stream? Cause its a fast drip. Could a leaky petcock cause a vaccum/fuel issue so the bike isn't getting enough fuel? And thanks pictures would.be appericated!

Edit: and yes I have looked in the air box. Not even a filter is.in there
And I haven't drained the Carb bowls.yet

[Aeather]

Anyone..? ^^

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Aeather

Anyone..? ^^

was the filter frame there and no foam.. or the whole assembly gone?

[choneofakind]

no air filter = get an air filter!

petcock: it should only flow gas when there is a vacuum applied to the smaller nipple. The carbs do this when the bike is running, but you can test it by sucking on a piece of 3/16" hose that is hooked up to the small nipple on the petcock.

My tank always whines. She's quite loud. It's a common thing for a 250 rider to have a whining bike. Yours not whining is odd to me.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Aeather

........Could a leaky petcock cause a vaccum/fuel issue so the bike isn't getting enough fuel? And thanks pictures would.be appericated!

The petcock is defective if dripping without vacuum, but that is not causing your possible problem of insufficient fuel supply.

The problem would be not enough flow when vacuum is applied.
Another problem could be vacuum not reaching the petcock (broken smaller hose).

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/File:832902.jpg

[Aeather]

lgk There was the assembly in there. But no filter.

And the thing is leaking when also in the off position. So.

So Ill buy a new petcock when I get paid, then Ill look at the vacuum line coming to and from the pet cock for possible problems or restrictions? Could it be the carbs themselves not having enough vacuum to suck the fuel in?

[Rollingmenace]

The carbs dont use vacuum to suck fuel fuel is fed to carbs by gravity.. Vacuum only actuates the diafram in the petcock to allow fuel flow.. The pic above explains the parts pretty good .. Have you pulled main fuel line from petcock to carbs and checked for obstructions kinks and of a plugged fuel filter yet

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Aeather

lgk There was the assembly in there. But no filter.

well, i would dismantle the airbox, unless you are sure it was never there....

[choneofakind]

Just take the airbox lid off and stick your hand in to feel for a filter.

take off the hose from the carbs to the petcock. Plug one end, and suck on it. Does the hose itself hold vacuum?

[Aeather]

Originally Posted by Rollingmenace

The carbs dont use vacuum to suck fuel fuel is fed to carbs by gravity.. Vacuum only actuates the diafram in the petcock to allow fuel flow.. The pic above explains the parts pretty good .. Have you pulled main fuel line from petcock to carbs and checked for obstructions kinks and of a plugged fuel filter yet

Not yet. So I am assuming the process would to be take off the fuel tank and just make sure all the lines coming from the petcock are clean of obstruction?


And also I dont know if the air filter was in there in the first place but I guess ill check when I get home.


And choneofakind. Ill check.. Do I have to suck on it or can I blow.....

[choneofakind]

...same thing?

I would pull a vacuum because that's what it experiences on the bike. There's not gas in that hose ever, so it's not like you're gonna get a mouth full of nasty. No pun intended.

[Aeather]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

...same thing?

I would pull a vacuum because that's what it experiences on the bike. There's not gas in that hose ever, so it's not like you're gonna get a mouth full of nasty. No pun intended.

Hahhahaa alright, ill check that when I get home. Ill be ordering a new petcock here at the end of this week I presume. If non of this works. Ill be taking it into a shop!

[Aeather]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The petcock is defective if dripping without vacuum, but that is not causing your possible problem of insufficient fuel supply.

The problem would be not enough flow when vacuum is applied.
Another problem could be vacuum not reaching the petcock (broken smaller hose).

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/File:832902.jpg

By the way.. In your attached picture.. Mine is nothing like that. Mine has a inline fuel fliter so I can acutally see the fuel... so should I still look for that mesh filter?

[Motofool]

Normally, people replace the little mesh filter by that in-line filter of bigger capacity.

It could be still there, tough.

[Aeather]

Then check that mesh to see if there is any obstruction? And should the petcock not leak any fuel in the on position or should it be a steady stream of gas?

[Motofool]

Yes.

No vacuum => No gas flow in any position.

Vacuum => Gas flow in on position; also in reserve.