Upgrade to Ninja 650 or ninja 1000?

[eversic]

Hey there fellow riders. I've been doing some research all over the net (and here via "Search") and Im looking for general upgrade advice.

Ninja 650 or Ninja 1000?

Currently, Im on my 3rd bike, 2012 Ninja 250. I've had it about six months now.....and I should say I absolutely love it! I used to ride cruisers, but crossed over to the semi-dark side (since Im not wanting a super sport).

Only thing I don't like about my 250 is the power band. Takes a while to get going, and on the freeway, it feels buzzy (as expected)....

What Im looking for is if someone can really explain to me the difference between the riding experience of an inline-4 vs a v-twin. I suspect riding a 650 would more than do the trick...I read its very fast off the line and tops out at 125....about 40mph faster than i'd ever go, and probably feels similiar to the 250 in handling. HOWEVER...I am concerned that the 650 might also feel light on the freeway.

I see the Ninja 1000 has all the power one could ever want for the city AND freeway....but is it too much power?

I'm 36 years old, fairly new to riding...I have my MSF cert, license, and a full season of riding under my belt. I also don't race....nor have any friends with bikes....kind of a solo hobby for me. I ride all year round...Tampa area.

I know the insurance costs....650 could run me $455 a year...same as my 250...vs the 1000 which would be $1100 a year.

Anyone ridden these machines before that could part some advice?

Thanks a ton guys.

-Chris

[Jiggles]

I've owned the 250 650 and 1000. The 650 is a parallel twin by the way. The 650 has more power than you will ever use and is faster than any car you will ever see on the road. The 650 is comfy but I wanted a bike that was more suited for touring so I got the 1000. The 650s throttle is also a little too twitchy for me which made aggressive riding in the twisties more difficult. The 1000 has a very smooth throttle and more power than you'll know what to do with. I have never needed to take it over 6k rpms and for general cruising I rarely go over 4k. With the 650 I rarely needed to go over 7-8k and for general cruising 5-6k. And to compare it to the 250 I take it to redline everytime or for cruising 9-10k

Compared to the 250 they are both significantly heavier, more stretched out and more comfortable. Nice thing about the 1k is you can be in 4th gear @ 20mph and still have all the torque you need to accelerate quickly, the 650 you'd have to downshift

There are also side cases made specifically for the 1000 which is cool for touring

[nickjpass]

Jiggles is right...since he owned them all haha What do you mean by 'twitchy'?

[Reyno2ac]

I rode both the 650, Ninja 1000, and z1000 at the demo days, I upgraded to a 650 instead of a 1000 because of gas mileage and insurance. My 650 gets 50mpg riding it hard, and insurance is a million times cheaper. I can now cruise at 75mph without feeling like I'm going to blow the bike up too.

I'd say either one will be a good decision, both will have a ton more power than you'll ever need on the street but will allow you too cruise comfortably.

[Yasko]

The 1000 if the mpgs and insurance is not an issue. It looks to be a very easy bike to ride for a 1000cc.

I love my 600cc because mpgs and insurance is a big deal for me. So far no need to run it over 10k rpm.


Ride safe.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Jiggles is right...since he owned them all haha What do you mean by 'twitchy'?

It's either accelerate or decelerate, not really an inbetween

Originally Posted by Reyno2ac

I rode both the 650, Ninja 1000, and z1000 at the demo days, I upgraded to a 650 instead of a 1000 because of gas mileage and insurance. My 650 gets 50mpg riding it hard, and insurance is a million times cheaper. I can now cruise at 75mph without feeling like I'm going to blow the bike up too.

I'd say either one will be a good decision, both will have a ton more power than you'll ever need on the street but will allow you too cruise comfortably.

Oh yea, forgot about the gas mileage, so far on my 1k I'm getting about 40mpg, on the 250 I get 42-45mpg and on the 650 I also got 42 mpg. I ride a bit fast which is why my 250 mileage sucks but the 1k and the 650 will go as fast as the 250 with so little throttle

Insurance on the 650 was actually cheaper than the 250 for me while the 1000 is $1600 a year

[dirty nasty]

Super sport or bust!

[gilmorec61]

My 636 pulls 40 mpg constantly and i ride it hard as crap. Im paying 170 for min coverage a year with my name on the policy and im 17.

[eversic]

Oh yeah, i forgot to say...my insurance numbers are for liab, comp, and collision at the highest levels. I guess I never thought about doing minimal....prolly cuz I care about others. lol. j/k.

Does the 1000 throttle feel smooth like the 250 as in forgiving if you pull back to hard? Same question for the 650? Also, any issues with these bikes popping wheelies?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by gilmorec61

My 636 pulls 40 mpg constantly and i ride it hard as crap.

I was confused by this until I realized, crap is actually soft and squishy

[gilmorec61]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I was confused by this until I realized, crap is actually soft and squishy

lol depends what you ate the hours before

and idk about the 650 or 1000 but mine will pull the front tire up in 1st without leaning or pulling or standing or anything

[Jiggles]

1000 is a wheelie machine, the 650 needs a bit of encouragement

[CC Cowboy]

Go to Biketoberfest and take a rest ride.

[eversic]

How would the ninja 1000 do for mostly city driving? Would it be a waste? Seems more like a long distance tourer perhaps? Also...does it handle as well as a 650?


Lastly...,just out of curiosity.....how would a ninja 1000 fair against a 600cc super sport?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by eversic

How would the ninja 1000 do for mostly city driving? Would it be a waste? Seems more like a long distance tourer perhaps? Also...does it handle as well as a 650?

The 1000 is certainly superior for distance rides. For city driving I don't think either one is necessarily better. If the costs of the bikes, insurance, and gas isn't really an issue then go down to the dealer and sit on both bikes, which feels better? Personally, the 1000 fits me better than the 650.

Originally Posted by eversic

Lastly...,just out of curiosity.....how would a ninja 1000 fair against a 600cc super sport?

The 1000 is faster, a 600 is lighter. In a straight line in the hands of a pro the 1000 will win, in twisties the 600 will win. But for n00bs like us it makes no difference. We can never hope to dream to ride these bikes to their limits though

[nickjpass]

Either on or off throttle...that'd be annoying...especially for street riding. Get the 1000.

[Jiggles]

It's only annoying when aggressively riding in the twisties.

And in parking lots I guess

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by eversic

Hey there fellow riders. I've been doing some research all over the net (and here via "Search") and Im looking for general upgrade advice.

Ninja 650 or Ninja 1000?

Currently, Im on my 3rd bike, 2012 Ninja 250. I've had it about six months now.....and I should say I absolutely love it! I used to ride cruisers, but crossed over to the semi-dark side (since Im not wanting a super sport).

Only thing I don't like about my 250 is the power band. Takes a while to get going, and on the freeway, it feels buzzy (as expected)....

What Im looking for is if someone can really explain to me the difference between the riding experience of an inline-4 vs a v-twin. I suspect riding a 650 would more than do the trick...I read its very fast off the line and tops out at 125....about 40mph faster than i'd ever go, and probably feels similiar to the 250 in handling. HOWEVER...I am concerned that the 650 might also feel light on the freeway.

I see the Ninja 1000 has all the power one could ever want for the city AND freeway....but is it too much power?

I'm 36 years old, fairly new to riding...I have my MSF cert, license, and a full season of riding under my belt. I also don't race....nor have any friends with bikes....kind of a solo hobby for me. I ride all year round...Tampa area.

I know the insurance costs....650 could run me $455 a year...same as my 250...vs the 1000 which would be $1100 a year.

Anyone ridden these machines before that could part some advice?

Thanks a ton guys.

-Chris

I had a 650R and have ridden the 1000 (along with just about every sport bike out there). I would go for the 650. I think it is better looking and more comfortable. It will get much better gas mileage (50mpg vs 40mpg) and therefore better range. You just are not getting $3 or 4k more bike with the 1000, I would say about $1000 more bike. The 650R handles better too.

Highway stability is not an issue with either. They are both very solid up to 100mph.

I would not describe the 650 as twitchy at all. It has very short gearing in first to take advantage of the powerband, but my 300 is twitchier at low RPMs than the 650.

The 650R is just an overall amazing bike- it can do everything on the street well. I almost bought another instead of my 300 but I really love the lighter more fuel efficient bikes. I already rode my WR250R more than my 600RR and now my 300 is eating 100 miles a day.

No the 1000 isn't too much power. It was really underwhelming to me- my 600RR pulls harder than it. You can't go wrong with a 650R unless you're one of those kids who always wants more more more and 130mph doesn't do it for you. You sound like you're much more mature than that and the 650R will blow your mind with it's amazing balance of fuel economy, power, comfort, and handling.

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The 1000 is certainly superior for distance rides. For city driving I don't think either one is necessarily better. If the costs of the bikes, insurance, and gas isn't really an issue then go down to the dealer and sit on both bikes, which feels better? Personally, the 1000 fits me better than the 650.



The 1000 is faster, a 600 is lighter. In a straight line in the hands of a pro the 1000 will win, in twisties the 600 will win. But for n00bs like us it makes no difference. We can never hope to dream to ride these bikes to their limits though

Since the Ninja 1000 does not have more traction than a 600 I4 but it weighs more I really doubt it would win a 0-60 (both riders are pro) since a 1000 I4 is usually slower to 60 than it's 600cc counterpart. The 1000 will barely win in the 1/4 mile over a 600. An 07-08 600RR can manage 0-60 in 2.5 seconds, I have never seen someone get under 2.7 with the 1000RR.

Then if the road curves there is no more doubt, the handling is unreal on a supersport compared to the Ninja 1000. I guess the Ninja 1000 just didn't wow me like I expected as I am the victim of the brutal acceleration of my old 07 1000RR and quite used to my 08 600RR.

[Jiggles]

But for n00bs like us it makes no difference. We can never hope to dream to ride these bikes to their limits though

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by eversic

Lastly...,just out of curiosity.....how would a ninja 1000 fair against a 600cc super sport?

In what sense? If you are talking about the red light grand prix, it takes more effort/skill to "launch" a 1000 compared to a 600. If you are talking about taking comfortable rides on the highway or even in the city the Ninja 1000 would be way more comfortable with a more usable practical power band.

Keep in mind though that the Ninja 1000 is much, much heavier then any 600 supersport, and generally has lower quality suspension with limited adjust-ability. It sounds like for what you're looking for a sport tourer like the Ninja 1000 would be perfect, but I would recommend if you do get a chance try to find a 600 to demo just to see how it feels. A 600 with a dialed in suspension adjusted for your weight will corner and feel much different in terms of handling/confidence then a sport tourer - they are a ton of fun on the streets and there is a reason the segment is so popular as street bikes.

[SteveL]

The 650R is a very capable bike that fits all occasions, 500 mile rides to, commuting. You can't compare it to a liter bike in any way the fuel, insurance and maintenance costs are much higher, a big I4 is smooth all the time where a twin will bit your asse if you drop the clutch when changing down. Horses for courses I think is the term, try them both and then decide, no one can tell you what to buy it's up to you.

Steve

[adouglas]

I'd definitely take a test ride if I were you. Kawi does a demo day tour every year and it's well worth attending if you can.

The 650 was on the short list of upgrade bikes for me but after riding it…. meh. It's got good power, good manners, nothing at all wrong with it. But it wasn't exciting at all. My 08 250 (jetted with AreaP Quiet Core, clipons and rearsets) has WAY more soul than that bike. Maybe it'd come alive with mods, but out of the box…. it doesn't move me.

As I was riding it I kept thinking "gee, this is kind of like operating a sewing machine." Very appliance-like.

If you're looking for transportation and not much else, big thumbs up. If you're looking for something that gets you excited, well…

Just take a ride and you decide.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by adouglas

I'd definitely take a test ride if I were you. Kawi does a demo day tour every year and it's well worth attending if you can.

The 650 was on the short list of upgrade bikes for me but after riding it…. meh. It's got good power, good manners, nothing at all wrong with it. But it wasn't exciting at all. My 08 250 (jetted with AreaP Quiet Core, clipons and rearsets) has WAY more soul than that bike. Maybe it'd come alive with mods, but out of the box…. it doesn't move me.

As I was riding it I kept thinking "gee, this is kind of like operating a sewing machine." Very appliance-like.

If you're looking for transportation and not much else, big thumbs up. If you're looking for something that gets you excited, well…

Just take a ride and you decide.

I felt the exact same way after my 2012 650 test ride. It just didn't feel any more exciting than my mod'd 250R. A used 1000 may very well be in my future though. That bike to me just seems to be in a league of its own.

[Fappy]

I'm actually in a similar boat here. I'm thinking about upgrading this winter to a 650R. The only difference is that I'm debating between going for the 600 class supersport (zx-6r) or a more tame 650R.

I'd be daily riding the bike, not racing it very often (I'd like to, but 95%+ of the time it'd be a commuter), and I'm not interested in high maintenance costs or short bike lifespan, hence the 650R.

But here's my only pet peeve about the 650R: The parallel-twin engine kind of has the sound of a tractor; and even though I know it's dumb... it still kind of irks me. Is there any exhaust modification that can do anything about this?

[Lil_Green_Demon]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

I've owned the 250 650 and 1000. The 650 is a parallel twin by the way. The 650 has more power than you will ever use and is faster than any car you will ever see on the road. The 650 is comfy but I wanted a bike that was more suited for touring so I got the 1000. The 650s throttle is also a little too twitchy for me which made aggressive riding in the twisties more difficult. The 1000 has a very smooth throttle and more power than you'll know what to do with. I have never needed to take it over 6k rpms and for general cruising I rarely go over 4k. With the 650 I rarely needed to go over 7-8k and for general cruising 5-6k. And to compare it to the 250 I take it to redline everytime or for cruising 9-10k

Compared to the 250 they are both significantly heavier, more stretched out and more comfortable. Nice thing about the 1k is you can be in 4th gear @ 20mph and still have all the torque you need to accelerate quickly, the 650 you'd have to downshift

There are also side cases made specifically for the 1000 which is cool for touring

I think this is the first post I've ever read from you that doesn't reek of trolling. Good job! Keep it up!

Anyway, @eversic, I can't give you any real advice because I've ridden neither of those two bikes, but I just want to say that if I were in your shoes, I'd get the 650. It has more than enough power to suffice while delivering very good gas mileage.
Just my opinion. Whatever you go with, good luck and be safe!

[Lil_Green_Demon]

Originally Posted by Fappy

But here's my only pet peeve about the 650R: The parallel-twin engine kind of has the sound of a tractor; and even though I know it's dumb... it still kind of irks me. Is there any exhaust modification that can do anything about this?

Bro, going from a lawnmower to a tractor will be a great upgrade. You won't mind the sound if you can deal with the sound of the 250R.

[Fappy]

Originally Posted by Lil_Green_Demon

Bro, going from a lawnmower to a tractor will be a great upgrade. You won't mind the sound if you can deal with the sound of the 250R.

Haha, true... I don't really "mind" the sound my 250 since it is my first bike. But that smooth I-4 note is just so distinctive. Although, I do love the throbbing sound of the 650 at idle.

I've been told my 250 sounds like a weedwacker

[psych0hans]

Then buy an I4 like an fz or something.

[eversic]

Im leaning towards the 1000....only cuz I am afraid I'd get bored of the 650 in like a year.....don't want to waste money.

Does the N1K handle as well as the 250/650?

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by eversic

Im leaning towards the 1000....only cuz I am afraid I'd get bored of the 650 in like a year.....don't want to waste money.

Does the N1K handle as well as the 250/650?

Not even close. It is heavier and feels heavier. The engine is much smoother than the 650 though and the power is great, just nothing like a supersport 1000.

You shouldn't get bored with a 650R. If you do then you would also get bored with the 1000. If you're the kind of person who "gets bored" with bikes because of power (I have been riding for 11 years and the 250R never bored me) then you are looking at the wrong bikes altogether. Get a ZX14 if you want something comfortable or a 1000cc supersport if you do mostly street riding. Those bikes are in a different class in terms of power.

I understand that I am not the typical rider because most people do get bored with the power of their bike and move up until they get to a 1000cc supersport.

A real literbike will handle much better than a 650R. If you're concerned with handling the Ninja 1000 and ZX14 are not the way to go but a ZX10R may exceed your expectations.

How many miles do you ride? Do you do a lot of highway cruising?

[Aufitt]

Only riders who have been riding a very short time and never pushed them get 'bored' of bikes.
They have much to learn.

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

Only riders who have been riding a very short time and never pushed them get 'bored' of bikes.
They have much to learn.

I tried to say it a lot softer

It is USUALLY the 18yr old idiots riding around in shorts and a backwards baseball cap who think a 650R or 600 supersport is "not enough power" or get bored. They also usually start out with a used gixxer 600 and call everything else a girl's bike.

Idiots.

Buy a 2012 650R if you ride year round in Tampa and used to be a cruiser. The comfort and handling will be very welcome. It is probably faster than you are thinking and the only time you would feel like it is underpowered would be if you ride with a bunch of squids who have supersports and they rocket away from you around 60-70mph on the way to 150+. That's how a lot of groups ride...but you ride alone and the 650R is much more enjoyable for that kind of riding.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by eversic

Does the N1K handle as well as the 250/650?

What's been said applies.

Something to consider is that the 1K weights a LOT more than the 250. Like over 100 lbs more, all up. My Google-fu informs me that wet weight is a tick over 500 lbs. Wet weight on a 250 is something like 400 or less.

When moving all that means is that it's less flickable. At low speeds/stopped/pushing the bike you'll notice it.

[eversic]

You guys have been great. don't get me wrong...I love everything about my 250r....including the flickability....hearing whats been said....it makes more sense to get a 650 vs. a 1000. I recognize the danger of jumping on a liter bike...hence why Im doing my research....but truth be told....one of the reasons I don't do a lot of freeway riding is because I feel so exposed on the 250R on the freeway. Just so buzzy, I get blown around so easy, and have minimal passing power....as in I have to plan everything strategically vs when Im in the city...I have a lot of fun.

I did sit on both 650 & 1000 at the stealership. I love them both....I like the "heavy duty" feeling of the 1000....seems like a "boss" bike that I can cruise on the blvd in style on....but if its that heavy....and dangerous for newbs....well...I have no pride in learning. I see lots of youngsters on gixxers ALL the time....hence why I hate gixxers. Guess I don't want to be a racer wannabe.....aka Im 36, married (happily) and like only occasionally pissing of cagers....anyone on 2 wheels should be friends.

Side note....I always wanted a Ninja 500.....my favorite old school bike....but when I say the Ninja 650, I decided to start on a 250R to learn the ropes so i wouldn't end up 6ft under.

Thanks again.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by eversic

Im leaning towards the 1000....only cuz I am afraid I'd get bored of the 650 in like a year.....don't want to waste money.

Does the N1K handle as well as the 250/650?

The 250 is lighter so it will be much easier to handle. But the 1000 is better suited for the twisties and handles better than the 650. The 650 is 85lbs heavier than the 250 and the 1000 is 50lns heavier than the 650. Some of the advantages the 1000 has over the 650 are an adjustable suspension, slipper clutch, and inverted forks. I'm sure there is more but I can't think of them right now.

It depends on how you want to ride, the 650 isn't going to cut it for aggressive riding in the twisties (it didn't seem good enough to me which is why I picked up another 250) I wasn't planning on takin the 1000 in the twisties much but it has turned out to be a fantastic twisty bike. So again, it depends on what you want to do with the bike.

And the 650 is faster than every other car on the road, it's hard to get bored of that kinda power

[Reddoak]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

The 250 is lighter so it will be much easier to handle. But the 1000 is better suited for the twisties and handles better than the 650. The 650 is 85lbs heavier than the 250 and the 1000 is 50lns heavier than the 650. Some of the advantages the 1000 has over the 650 are an adjustable suspension, slipper clutch, and inverted forks. I'm sure there is more but I can't think of them right now.

It depends on how you want to ride, the 650 isn't going to cut it for aggressive riding in the twisties (it didn't seem good enough to me which is why I picked up another 250) I wasn't planning on takin the 1000 in the twisties much but it has turned out to be a fantastic twisty bike. So again, it depends on what you want to do with the bike.

And the 650 is faster than every other car on the road, it's hard to get bored of that kinda power

Tampa (and the rest of Central FL) is well known for its complete absence of "twisties."

My 650 (an ER-6N) is fine on the highway, much easier to ride in the situations you describe regarding wind resistance and passing power compared to my previous 250r. Obviously, being a naked bike, the wind is considerably more noticeable at speed, I expect the 650R to be a bit better that way.

Exhaust noise: Get a nice slip on, they have a nice popping idle and an aggressive tone that is considerably different from any I4. Like a Harley on 'roids. That said... still sounds like an industrial machine. Welcome to twins!

Twitchy throttle: Yup. A Power Commander and a good map went a long way towards improving the throttle response and feel. However, the 650s really engine brake hard, and aggressive downshifting will easily unsettle the rear of the bike. Even chopping the throttle at higher RPMs can be a bit harsh. Use the clutch accordingly.

Wheelies on a 650r: Sure you can. Goose it hard in first, or drop the clutch. Unintentional wheelies? Not too common. I've done it twice without meaning to, both times going full throttle in first gear. Oops. Bad habit formed on the Ninjette... The 650 isn't exactly an untamed beast.

[Jiggles]

Didn't even look where he is from, you poor soul, why even get a bike if you can't ride on twisties?

And yea engine braking, brakes harder than my 1k does, that **** is bananas

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Didn't even look where he is from, you poor soul, why even get a bike if you can't ride on twisties?

And yea engine braking, brakes harder than my 1k does, that **** is bananas

Like, ****ing bananas?

[Jiggles]

Not really....