Octane, Money and You??? What do you run in your 250 and why?

[Roostre]

I run 85 because the altitude here is about 5000 ft above sea level... but this is what the bike says on the inside of the fairing:





Maybe on a hot dry day near the coast...if it started pinging! (This does have California emissions for some reason.)

[Alex]

It's a misleading sticker, as the US does not use RON. We use RON+MON/2. 91 RON works out to roughly 87 RON+MON/2, as MON is typically about 7 - 10 points less. Look at the Octane number details on any pump, and somewhere in the fine print it will show that RON+MON/2 formula. It's not an exact science, and the particular fuel blends matter, but that sticker should not be read to mean that our bikes, pre-gen or current-gen, require premium gas here in the US.

[Roostre]

Nice explanation!

I did not know that.

So actually in the US we could run 81- 83 octane and be fine!! Wow.

[pinkard129]

i run 93 in mine because of the high compression, i figured running anything lower would cause pre-detonation. i may be thinking old school tho

[Keenan84]

Originally Posted by pinkard129

i run 93 in mine because of the high compression, i figured running anything lower would cause pre-detonation. i may be thinking old school tho

The compression isnt actually high. Your actually just wasting cash because 87 octane wont cause pre-detonation. Infact 93 octane is slowing down ignition and your probably losing a slight amount of power.

[foxpaws]

this seems like the right thread for this question: how does altitude change fuel requirements? if i'm on a road trip, how do i choose what to feed the beastie with?

[Alex]

High altitude lowers the required octane, so while 87 will work anywhere, at high altitudes if something like 85 or even 83 were available, it would likely work fine. Since in most cases 87 is the minimum anyway, it'll be fine.

[pedaltothemetal]

Increase in carbon deposits in the combustion chamber increases compression ratio. If you do get ping because of this, then you should use higher octane.
These engines run at very high rpms, and as long as you don't lug the engine under load you should be ok on 87 octane.
Personally I have been using 91 cause just in case I get a batch of bad gas!

[mrlmd]

Originally Posted by pedaltothemetal

Increase in carbon deposits in the combustion chamber increases compression ratio. If you do get ping because of this, then you should use higher octane.
These engines run at very high rpms, and as long as you don't lug the engine under load you should be ok on 87 octane.
Personally I have been using 91 cause just in case I get a batch of bad gas!

I'm sorry, but this is wrong, from the first sentence to the last, and makes absolutely no sense. And why does using 91 just in case you get a batch of bad gas help? Why is that better? You still don't understand what octane rating means and what it does. Not only are you wasting your money, you are robbing your engine of power and also going against the recommendation of the engine manufacturer. Do you really think you know better than them?
People have the mistaken idea that the higher the octane rating, the better or more powerful the gas is, and that is just not correct. So do what you want, use your own logic to justify your actions, but you are not helping yourself or your bike in any way.

[pedaltothemetal]

Originally Posted by mrlmd

I'm sorry, but this is wrong, from the first sentence to the last, and makes absolutely no sense. And why does using 91 just in case you get a batch of bad gas help? Why is that better? You still don't understand what octane rating means and what it does. Not only are you wasting your money, you are robbing your engine of power and also going against the recommendation of the engine manufacturer. Do you really think you know better than them?
People have the mistaken idea that the higher the octane rating, the better or more powerful the gas is, and that is just not correct. So do what you want, use your own logic to justify your actions, but you are not helping yourself or your bike in any way.

Bad gas just means lower octane than advertized cause some unscrupulous dealers buy less quality gas with additives missing so they can make a few more pennies per gallon. Makes the engine run bad.
In my camaro running regular will cause the engine to retard if the knock sensor detects it. This decreases performance. I have always been a car guy and so with my ninjette treat it just like a high performance engine!
You go by the book and I just go by my experience and we both are very happy!

[kkim]

[backinthesaddleagain]

Bad gas can be from contaminants in the tank or the truck delivering the gas.

[Flashmonkey]

LOL not even my gixxer gets 91 octane.

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in? That oughta get a few butts puckered

[QuarterBoreNinja]

87 in both the Ninjettes as recommended, no issues whatsoever, there's no sense in running a higher octane unless you experience problems with 87...

[Snake]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

LOL not even my gixxer gets 91 octane.

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in? That oughta get a few butts puckered

That's a very good way of looking at it. I never thought of the gas left in the hose.

[jonthechron]

I've done the test, in both my bike and my car. I've tried 87-89-91-94-95, I seem to get the best results and I feel like 89 is right for me, I'm at like 100 ft above sea level. Does this make any sense?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by jonthechron

I've done the test, in both my bike and my car. I've tried 87-89-91-94-95, I seem to get the best results and I feel like 89 is right for me, I'm at like 100 ft above sea level. Does this make any sense?

no

[patw]

I tried some Shell V-Power this weekend, and I noticed the bike running a lot smoother (less hesitations, more pull, smoother idle, better fuel economy). I normally just gas up at the Pioneer 1 block from my house.

Now the story would end here as a random anecdote, but the science is terrible so I'll refute it:

- The temp has gone up almost 10-15C this weekend, warmer ambient could easily explain it.
- I did my chain maintenance and lubed the axles on the wheels. It doesn't explain the engine changes, but it always makes the bike feel smoother.
- Shell gas could have some chemical differences that the bike is better engineered to handle (ethanol ratios?).
- Pioneer is typically cheaper than shell around here, it's possible there might be more particulate in the fuel (pure speculation). Shell's regular gas might work as well (or better) than the v-power.
- The bike is a 2009 with 13k km on it, I'm not sure the injector cleaner (does it even work on carbs?) they include in v-power would have much effect, unless my existing gas was somehow causing problems.

I believe I spent $1.00 extra on my fill up to speculate on the internet. The only thing I can say for sure is v-power entertained me for a bit

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Snake

That's a very good way of looking at it. I never thought of the gas left in the hose.

This was mentioned on another forum that I frequent and thought it would be appropriate to mention this here.

This doesn't even account for the amount of ethanol certain companies put into their gas additive package that effectively lowers the octane rating further.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in?

It's a common worry on car and bike forums, but there's not much validity to it. There is < 1/4 gallon of fuel, at most, in the portion of the pump that would remain from the prior customer. Even a small bike tank where someone fills up 3 gallons, the worst case would be 1/12 * 87 octane and 11/12 * 91 octane, which for all intents and purposes would result in 91 octane in your tank. Keep in mind that fuel companies often overshoot the octane number as it can drop over time and it is required to meet certain standards when tested later at the end of the line (at the gas station). Unless someone fills up 1/2 gallon at a time, it's just not a worry.

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

This doesn't even account for the amount of ethanol certain companies put into their gas additive package that effectively lowers the octane rating further.

Ethanol is actually one of the most common ways to *raise* the octane level. The high ethanol content gas means that much less of other additives and treatments are necessary to meet the octane rating requirements. Ethanol has less available power in it by weight compared to standard gasoline, but its octane rating is quite high.

[ztrack157]

Vp u 4.2

[Snake]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Vp u 4.2

????

[ztrack157]

Race fuel $66 for 5 gallons 102 octane leaded and oxygenated

[Snake]

^^^ Ah ok.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by ztrack157

Race fuel $66 for 5 gallons 102 octane leaded and oxygenated

oooo... will that make a stock ninja 250 as fast as a ss600?

[GeorgiaHooligan]

I run 93 because it burns cleaner and its easier on engine parts. And with great gas mileage like this, why not spend a few extra pennies. Use it while you can, before you know it all the oil will be in the ocean.......

[ztrack157]

Originally Posted by kkim

oooo... will that make a stock ninja 250 as fast as a ss600?

Nope. But whoever said my bike was stock. 33+hp isn't bad for a track/ race bike

[kkim]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaHooligan

I run 93 because it burns cleaner and its easier on engine parts.

that is entirely false and the reason this thread was started.... to dispel those misconceptions about higher octane fuels.

[Thrak]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaHooligan

I run 93 because it burns cleaner and its easier on engine parts.

False and False...

[rceezy]

I use 87 because I'm cheap. There, I said it!!! And... maybe because that's what the fam said to use.

[ztrack157]

Originally Posted by Thrak

False and False...

Agreed with Dwayne and Kelly. If If I did not have the ignition advanced to where it was I would run 87 octane because it performs the best with the stock set up.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ethanol is actually one of the most common ways to *raise* the octane level. The high ethanol content gas means that much less of other additives and treatments are necessary to meet the octane rating requirements. Ethanol has less available power in it by weight compared to standard gasoline, but its octane rating is quite high.

Right...right...sorry. Ethanol has less energy than gasoline...that's why it sucks...not because it lowers octane.

Insert facepalm here

[blackburn RR]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

LOL not even my gixxer gets 91 octane.

Here's a question for everyone. If the jerk before you used 87 octane gas, then you come puttering in and opt for 91....how much 87 gas (already in the hose out of the pump) gets into your tank before the 91 starts flowing in? That oughta get a few butts puckered

sorry, this Q really caught me off guard,
are you saying that in your country the fuel of different grades are coming off from the same pump??

[kkim]

Originally Posted by blackburn RR

sorry, this Q really caught me off guard,
are you saying that in your country the fuel of different grades are coming off from the same pump??

yes

[Alex]

gas_pumps.jpg

[VeX]

Well actually the oxygenated racing fuels as ZTrack mentioned WILL increase horsepower all things being equal (oxygenated fuels increase O2 content), but as has been mentioned over and over and over again, octane has no correlation to power. And here in the Midwest since ethanol is so prevalent 89 octane fuel costs less then 87 octane (because ethanol is the additive used to raise octane in that case). That's the only reason why I use 89 octane whereas anywhere else in this country I'd use 87 ((RON+MON)/2).

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by blackburn RR

sorry, this Q really caught me off guard,
are you saying that in your country the fuel of different grades are coming off from the same pump??

Every now and then you'll come across a pump with a separate nozzle for "premium" fuel....but for the most part Alex and Kelly are right.

Even rarer still is when you come across the old style pump...where you have to flip down the little thingy instead of pressing the buttons. I love seeing people struggle with those ones.

[CRXTrek]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

Even rarer still is when you come across the old style pump...where you have to flip down the little thingy instead of pressing the buttons. I love seeing people struggle with those ones.

This?

[Flashmonkey]

^^Woah...that's even older than I was talking about. Stuff like that doesn't survive up here with our insane climate changes.

I was talking about these ones:



And even THOSE are pretty new....circa late 90's I'd say. Finding one of those around Toronto is like stumbling onto dinosaur bones

[Neoki]

87, cause thats what i was told