Loud Pipes Save Lives?

[Green Streak]

Let's face it riding a motorcycle is a gamble; if you enjoy it enough you will take the risks. But if you are smart, you try to reduce your odds of becoming a skid mark on the pavement as much as possible. I wear bright colors, and stay as attentive and defensive as possible. I wear protective gear, and dont drive recklessly. For example, if I see a car about to turn onto the road I am on, I prepare for the worst, I get my hands ready for a possible emergency stop or evasive maneuver, and I make sure that I have power, I will shift down if I have just started in a gear, etc... All these things together are things that help your odds.

The things mentioned above probably do more than anything to increase my odds of avoiding an accident. But I also have always replaced my stock can with an aftermarket one on every bike I have owned. I am not talking about exhaust that makes your ears bleed, I am talking about reasonably loud exhaust. The #1 reason I do it, is to increase my odds of being seen(noticed) by inattentive motorists.

I used to be on Fire/Rescue for many years and one of my jobs was working on the 'Jaws of Life' (Hurst Tool) team/First Responders Team for motor vehicle accidents (10-55s), so I have probably seen more car/motorcycle accidents than most.(also why I will never get on a bike without a helmet... ever) Most times that someone hits a motorcyclist, they say that they did not see him/her (you would not believe the number of times I have heard that). The stock exhaust on most of the bikes that I have owned is quiet enough that you will not hear it in a car at most any speed. If having a louder exhaust (but still within legal limits) makes more people 'notice' that you are there. That increases the chances that you will not end up a 'car launched, meat missile'. So what if it only increases your chances that they notice you by a couple percentage points. That means a slightly better chance that your number will not come up today. And in my book that is a very good thing. You may decide that it is not worth it for a slightly better chances of avoiding an accident... that is your choice. My .

[backinthesaddleagain]

I was backing out of my driveway in my jeep the other day and did hear a HD before I saw it. I would have looked anyway but that was one time where the sound came before the sight.

[blink]

Well against a lot of arguments, the truth is; if you have loud pipes and even if some of you think it pisses people off; in order to get pissed off at loud pipes you have to hear them so either way, that is enough to do you good.

Harleys are heard from a mile away and atleast you know to be on the look out!

[alex.s]

Guys, I'm working on a new mod that flips the exhaust forward! it totally projects the sound forward for extra safety. I also heard back-pressure adds HP, so the ram-air effect into the exhaust should really help!!!

:-P

sure pedestrians and attentive drivers can hear you. but what about that deaf old lady who can't quite move her neck enough to look around to see where you are even if she did hear you? or the inattentive teenager blasting music so loud YOU can hear THEM from a mile away? what about that sleepy driver that does hear you coming, but doesn't register the sound as something they need to look out for? all of these things happen on a regular basis.
it's my opinion that if you rely on anyone noticing you at all for you to be safe, you're failing. you cannot reliably count on someone hearing you or noticing you. loud pipes piss people off (i know- i have a retarded loud pipe)

plus they totally give it away to the fuzz if you romp on it at all.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by blink

Well against a lot of arguments, the truth is; if you have loud pipes and even if some of you think it pisses people off; in order to get pissed off at loud pipes you have to hear them so either way, that is enough to do you good.

there is very little truth in your statement. it's the people in back of you that normally will hear an overly loud exhaust. how does that help you?

in the end, you're doing more harm than good having an exhaust loud enough to piss people off. better to learn to ride with situational awareness and be proactive in your positioning.

[gogoKawi]

This thread is still going? Aren't you guys tired of telling each other "you are wrong"? This argument is just as bad as asking "Does God exist?" And we all know the answer to that, right?

[kkim]

should there be an end to such topics??? I mean... why is there air?

seriously, loud pipes have always been an issue with bikes and the lawmakers are taking aim (again) to silence us. If we don't police our own, should we just wait till they do? It's all about changing perceptions on what is acceptable and if loud pipes really do more harm or good.

[reaperw]

well i would have to vote yes and no,Loud pipes make people notice you but if your not smart enought to ride then it dont matter how loud your pipes are.When i started to ride i had a louder exhaust just to put that extra i am here in effect,now i know what to look for and how bad cager are,that i can ride with a stock exhaust.I hope that made sence lol

[gogoKawi]

I'm not saying there should be an end to the discussion. I love heated debates. Keep them going! But it's no fun debating with people that aren't going to acknowledge the other side's argument. That's what's going on here. It's like a devout Christian and an atheist arguing about God, which is an awesome spectacle to witness BTW.

The article I posted about Toyota adding sound to the Prius shows that having an audible vehicle allows those around you to know that a vehicle is around even if it's not seen. This doesn't mean that loud pipes save lives, so please don't infer this from my comment. All it means is that being heard is an advantage. And I think that's what a number of people are arguing: it's better to be heard and seen than to be not heard and seen.

On the other hand, audible vehicles can disturb the area around them. Obnoxiously audible vehicles not only disturb but disrupt communities, neighborhoods, and even ecosystems. There needs to be something to correct that. And I think that's what this legislation is meant to do. Is it going to far by killing all after-market exhausts? It doesn't matter. It's job is to minimize the impact on the environment. I applaud that.

So, I don't know... I guess we can keep on going at it. But if people won't try to understand the other sides point, then this discussion is pointless, meaningless, and just sheer entertainment to those reading it. Because there is no doubt that this thing is funny!

[kkim]

well, beyond providing entertainment, hopefully some will actually learn something instead of acting on just bias/misconceptions, myself included.

forums are a great tool to help those that want to learn... learn. Those that don't want to learn usually argue. Those that know better already, sit back with a bag of popcorn.

with many new riders coming through any forum, it's always a good thing to keep these discussions alive so people can learn and decide for themselves.

and when people's decisions threaten the very sport I love so much, yeah... I can get a bit overzealous in trying to make my point.... over and over and over, again. would you prefer I don't? if so, boy, are you on the wrong forum.

[gogoKawi]

Originally Posted by kkim

and when people's decisions threaten the very sport I love so much, yeah... I can get a bit overzealous in trying to make my point.... over and over and over, again. would you prefer I don't? if so, boy, are you on the wrong forum.

It is all good! I always keep a bag of Act II around just in case.

[warlord]

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

...Ask a fireman how often cars yield the right of way to fire trucks, even when with sirens pointed forward. Studies say it is as high as 60%, and that is for something people give a crap about

I think the vast majority of people would be surprised how many people don't hear the sirens on the engine... or the ambulance for that matter. That's why it's still required in our county that emergency vehicles slow down to a 'reasonable speed' before entering an intersection even when given the right of way by the Opticom.

Scanning down the road for hazards, slowing down before intersections, and driving like nobody can see you or hear you... sounds like riding a motorcycle, right?

[blink]

Originally Posted by kkim

there is very little truth in your statement. it's the people in back of you that normally will hear an overly loud exhaust. how does that help you?

in the end, you're doing more harm than good having an exhaust loud enough to piss people off. better to learn to ride with situational awareness and be proactive in your positioning.

I very well do agree with you and a lot of people, that infact specifically a loud exhaust can't definenately save your life. It's just another thing next to having bright bike and bright clothing that someday MIGHT even if it doesn't put you in any bit of a harmful situation, it still might have awaken a drivers awareness fo your being.

I totally believe being a smart rider is key, and keep your eyes open! Wear the gear and don't ride like a dumbass in traffic, if you wanna be stupid go to the race track so atleast you can have medics come if you get hurt!

So to ANYONE reading this in order to decide whether to get a loud slip-on or not....you're in the WRONG place! Simply because it all comes down to personal taste for sound!

[alex.s]

I like that... what a perfect analogy. color of the bike. you don't get a black bike if you want to be noticed. but at the same time, you don't get a bike with high-power lights pointing in every direction, now do you? a vibrant color helps for someone thats looking. and just the same, an annoyingly loud sound is only heard by someone listening. if someone is already looking, are they going to see a blackish colored bike less than a redish looking bike? definitely not from the front, where most motorcycles are turned into from, thats for sure. so if someone already has a reasonable chance of hearing a vehicle, do you really think going that extra step to jam it into their ears is necessary? or will really change much? i think if someone is listening, and being attentive, they'll notice the bike. if not, they wont. regardless of how bright or how loud they're being.

i mean really, why not constantly be honking your horn? its about the same effect but you don't see people driving down the road honking at everyone... ... ... oh wait, i guess i forgot where i live.

[bettysmith]

Was driving home from work the other day and noticed a bike coming at me in the opposing lane of traffic. Didn't really hear his bike's exhaust until we passed eachother and it sounded to me as if it had no muffler; extremely loud. I don't quite care about the noise as it was like 5pm, but riding that thing around late at night or whatever I could see being an issue. As to whether or not loud pipes save lives? Well I can't quite answer that, however I will note that I didn't hear his bike until it would have been too late (if for some reason I veered into the oncoming traffic). Also to note is that these conditions don't seem to make for ideal collision opportunities, but crazy stuff happens.

[Liquidtoon]

So I have changed my mind. I was a big member of the I want a silent exhaust group but the stock can is ugly so I broke down a bought a rt-5 exhaust (it is way to loud for me and the qmi is still on back order) for the look of the little thing. After having it for about a month now I don't think people see any more than they did before, and if they do they still drive as bad as before. However I am semi-certain it saved my life.... there I was about 6pm poking along in the far right lane of a main road,4 lanes each way, that I take every night. Just me and a late model black suv in the middle left lane. I was going about 45 the suv maybe 45-50, he merges into the lane next to be and then about a 100ft later decides to make a right turn from the middle lane, In my mild panic state I jam on the brakes and yank in the clutch. In the couple seconds of time that passes I have forgotten to let off the throttle and by this time the engine is @10k exhaust screaming to life. It must of caught his attention because he jerks the truck back to the left (nearly flipping his suv). Luckily he heard(or possibly seen me, hids and bright red bike) because by the time I would have stopped they would have been pealing me off his passenger door. I had to pull over at the next stop and let my hands stop shaking for 5min before taking the side streets home. Im still not a fan of how loud this exhaust is but it is stay on!

[Live2ride]

I think skills have more to do with saving your life than an exhaust ever could. I would always feel like an ass when I took off from a light and almost redlined first gear, gradually, not wot. I felt like the exhaust was really loud and that people would think "wow, that guy is a jerk, he's just an incompetent sport biker like all the rest". Well, I ended up shimming the carbs and removing the snorkel, This did make the exhaust louder but a much deeper tone, not the stock moped sound . I love the sound the exhaust makes now and I have now learned that my exhaust is not remotely as loud as most sport bikes, I've learned to love the exhaust noise when taking off too. So basically, I am more noticeable now and therefore I do feel more comfortable, but I always ride like I'm invisible. Unless you buy an mgp growler exhaust or w/e that sounds like a straight pipe exhaust then I don't think it really makes a difference. But that stuff is crazy loud and normally a nuisance imo; besides, in a car with the radio blasting you won't hear anything...

[rusninja]

i likes me a nice sounding exhaust >.>

[Shaol1n Monk]

say what you want but when i had my vacuum cleaner sounding stock exhaust i was almost hit 2x in one week by female cagers switching into my lane without looking and not knowing i was there till i hit my horn. since putting on my MGP growler no incidents to report.

plus, i want my bike to sound like a motorcycle. my mpg doesnt sound as obnoxious as most of the HD exhausts ive heard, but it is loud enuff and def attracts attention. yea some people might hate it but i hear cars w loud exhausts or music blaring that i hate too. its a matter of preference wether u think its more safe or not.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Shaol1n Monk

its a matter of preference wether u think its more safe or not.

No, it's a matter of fact that we're discussing. Preference of whether someone likes something more is a matter of preference.

[Shaol1n Monk]

Originally Posted by Alex

No, it's a matter of fact that we're discussing. Preference of whether someone likes something more is a matter of preference.

i couldve worded that better:
i meant whether u think its safer or not its a matter of preference if u want loud pipes.
i want loud pipes, thats my preference.
i also think they are safer, but that is debatable.

[Alex]

Yup, I understand where you're coming from.

[headshrink]

My new mantra: "Loud pipes create more [unnecessary] legislation."

[alex.s]

i was walking in an alley the other night when i noticed i was suddenly surrounded by hooligans brandishing pipes and pieces of wood with nails in the end... all of the sudden a loud pipe fell from the sky and began battling the thugs. it literally saved my life.

[adri99an]

If just one cager heard me and didn't hit me because of my exhaust-then my 200 bux was well worth it. ATGATT.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Alex]

If you lowered your guard just one time that a cager was less likely to drift into you because of your pipe, you've completely missed the plot.

[KawiKid860]

how many cars do you know that rev their engine when they're going to hit someone? or when someone starts pulling out in front of them?

Most cars are automatics, with stock exhausts, so the argument does apply to them. I'm sure as heck not gonna shift to neutral on the highway so i can rev the engine in my car... Also I'm pretty sure the stock exhaust on my bike is louder than the pathetic horn (at high rpms of course). I generally just like the sound of an engine running, twin, 4, v6, v8 whatever, I love it when my neighbor with his CBR600RR takes off down my street because it sounds awesome, granted most neighbors wouldn't share my opinion. I want loud pipes because I like the sound it makes, if someone swerves into my lane I'm more likely to yell a bunch of profane stuff and go around them because that's my natural reaction.

[Shaol1n Monk]

Originally Posted by adri99an

If just one cager heard me and didn't hit me because of my exhaust-then my 200 bux was well worth it. ATGATT.
Posted via Mobile Device

+1

Originally Posted by Alex

If you lowered your guard just one time that a cager was less likely to drift into you because of your pipe, you've completely missed the plot.

i never lower my guard on the road because 99% of drivers are complete morons who are oblivious to their surroundings. i am pretty confident in my riding abilities, its everyone else on the road i have to be careful of.

Originally Posted by KawiKid860

I generally just like the sound of an engine running, twin, 4, v6, v8 whatever, I love it when my neighbor with his CBR600RR takes off down my street because it sounds awesome, granted most neighbors wouldn't share my opinion. I want loud pipes because I like the sound it makes.

me too brother

[alex.s]

i agree that i love the sound of engines. it's unfortunate that the vast majority of people don't. it's also unfortunate that people harbor ill will towards motorcyclists because of such silly things like "he's too loud"... it's also very unfortunate that the vast majority of people don't know the difference between a squid flying down the highway with no gear and a rider driving down the road safely. when i see motorists say things against motorcyclists like 'if you see one in your mirror, brake check them', or 'if you see one lane splitting, open the door on them', it really scares me that i have to suffer the negative consequences of other motorcyclists poor decisions like driving unsafely or far too aggressively for the street.

it's very unfortunate that loud pipes piss people off, but they do. to deny that is... well... denial. and pissed off people generally treat motorcyclists as a whole worse because of it.

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by Alex

If you lowered your guard just one time that a cager was less likely to drift into you because of your pipe, you've completely missed the plot.

I am speaking about driving with your guard as high as it may be and as tough as it may be. But even the safest guards get plowed. LPSL
Posted via Mobile Device

[adri99an]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i was walking in an alley the other night when i noticed i was suddenly surrounded by hooligans brandishing pipes and pieces of wood with nails in the end... all of the sudden a loud pipe fell from the sky and began battling the thugs. it literally saved my life.

Since my "pipe" saves my life daily- I wear flip flops, a wife beater, OP shorts and no helmet as I cruise GMR. What I love about the forum is we can agree to disagree.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Kawinja]

Loud sounds good and i think all bikes should have the engine roar sound. but with my neighborhood and my concsious i feel bad for turning on my bike specially since it has to warm up. the house in my neighborhood or literally right next to each other so i fear ppl will start complaining about so for me i love the loudness of the pipe but i wish it was silenced just so that nobody could hear me!!!

[Kevin2109]

I agree with adrian, even if it saves me from one then Its worth it. Maybe that lady wouldnt have side swiped me if she heard me next to her

[Shaol1n Monk]

Originally Posted by alex.s

it's very unfortunate that loud pipes piss people off, but they do. to deny that is... well... denial. and pissed off people generally treat motorcyclists as a whole worse because of it.

lol im used to people being pissed off at me anyway, i grew up riding a skateboard!

as for neighbors, i do feel bad that my pipe is loud and may wake or disturb the neighbors, but then i remember how many mornings i have been awakened at dawn on my day off by the neighbors barking dog, or screaming kids, or lawnmower/weedwacker. noone has a problem disturbing my sleep so i think of that and let my guilt pass.

lets face it, most people are selfish a$$holes anyway, the guy weedwacking at dawn on a saturday morning at 8am apparently doesnt give a damn that i worked till 3am the night before because he has work to do and WANTS to do it at 8am... so guess what, i WANT to have a loud pipe, because i like loud pipes and IMO it has saved my life, or at least made people more aware that i am there. and to the guy who said wearing bright colors is the answer, i was riding a LIME GREEN NINJA wearing a LIME GREEN iicon jacket 2x in the same week when a woman driver nearly hit me.

[Shaol1n Monk]

why do i have such a loud pipe????
like bobby brown said:
"ITS MY PREROGATIVE!"

[adri99an]

When I had my stock exhaust- here's what I heard and saw from cagers-"ohhh I didn't know you were there.". Then they'd give you that goofy excuse me- so sorry- I didn't hear or see you look. If cagers are going to text, facebook, talk, play angry birds while driving- then -m going to make a lot of noise pollution and begin legislation as well. And if my neighbor has to hear my exhaust so be it- I'm riding the bike not him. Should I ask my neighbor to take his exhaust off his truck? Or not to mow his lwan before 9am? Thank you for listening my fellow Americans.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Alex]

Originally Posted by adri99an

What I love about the forum is we can agree to disagree.

Nobody needs to agree to disagree, especially on something as clear cut as this. They just have the ability to hear different points of view. Some who have grown up, and some who haven't.

[adri99an]

Alex this is not by any means clear cut. There's a lot of in betweeners here because I agree with parts of what people believe and other parts not so much. How are you these days?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Alex]

Read the thread from the beginning, all the points have been made. I'm fine, but will not let a "loud pipes save lives" comment go by on this board without correcting folks. It's right up there with "I had to lay it down" and "what helmet?" in the trifecta of silly motorcyclist beliefs that just won't die.

It will here.

[GeorgiaHooligan]

Theres loud and then theres "LOUD" as hell. Straight pipes are taking it too another level on an inline four but I don't see any thing wrong with after market pipes, in fact I love them. If your running a 250, you def need a slip on. The 250 sounds like a blender and you cant hear it worth a damn.