Yamaha YZF-R2504 - Ninjette competition?

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by kkim

stick an fzr 250 motor in the 125 chassis... not really building a whole new bike... parts bin engineering.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod...zr250%2086.htm

Quote from kkms link~

Odd that anyone bothered to build a 250 four stroke in the first place. Who buys them? They're nowhere against a KR-1S or RGV in handling, torque or power. But they are a few years old, so maybe a comparison with the TZR250 would be more appropriate. But then five-year-old TZRs don't cost two and a half grand.

The FZR and GSX-R's appeal must be very specific. You'd have to hate two strokes, love regular valve clearance checks, have impossibly high insurance, 11 points on your licence and the mechanical sympathy of a bike journalist to be able to put up with them for long and remain sane.

---------------------------
those last couple paragraphs summed it up quite well, he he...

i guess this could be a way that they have decided to tackle the new 250 sports gen bikes over at Yamaha. and with all the added technology and knowledge that they have since they first made the FZR back in 1986, im sure they could tweak the engine to be more user friendly... redline @ 18k imagine putting an after market exhaust on that!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

Quote from kkms link~

Odd that anyone bothered to build a 250 four stroke in the first place. Who buys them? They're nowhere against a KR-1S or RGV in handling, torque or power. But they are a few years old, so maybe a comparison with the TZR250 would be more appropriate. But then five-year-old TZRs don't cost two and a half grand.

The FZR and GSX-R's appeal must be very specific. You'd have to hate two strokes, love regular valve clearance checks, have impossibly high insurance, 11 points on your licence and the mechanical sympathy of a bike journalist to be able to put up with them for long and remain sane.

---------------------------
those last couple paragraphs summed it up quite well, he he...

i guess this could be a way that they have decided to tackle the new 250 sports gen bikes over at Yamaha. and with all the added technology and knowledge that they have since they first made the FZR back in 1986, im sure they could tweak the engine to be more user friendly... redline @ 18k imagine putting an after market exhaust on that!

lol... that's what the Ninja 250R is! Who buys them?? A ton of people!!

easy for the author to say when 2 strokes are not even offered in the US.

[wayanlam]

well your right in saying that the new gen ninjas is practically a updated dress up of the classic 250s, with a couple tweaks here and there. but at least kawasaki kept the production of the ninjette going all these years. the other brands, yamaha, suzuki, and Honda, don't seem to have any bike in this class (currently) except for some older models that they stopped producing in like the 90s. many of which were really nice bikes even! of course each country then has some special bike that's not really available in other countries, such as our 150rr 2 stroke ninjas.

i'm definitely happy with the 250, im sure its more satisfying riding this bike closer to its limit, than having a liter bike that i'd have to ride at its minimum, since the roads here would rarely permit me to even redline in 1st gear, since that's already around 90mph+ on the bigger sports bikes.

i'm looking forward to see what the Yamaha YZF-R2504 will be like once its unveiled!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

i'm looking forward to see what the Yamaha YZF-R2504 will be like once its unveiled!

yes, you and me both! I just hope it happens soon.

[almost40]

Lightweight 2 stroke twin 250 for the track for $7000 otd.. Im buyin

4 stroke 4 cyl 250 FI maiking 45-50 HP for $6000 otd..Im buyin

4 stroke 250 FI twin with adjustable everything making 30-35 HP for $4500..I might be in the market. I wana ride it first.

4 stroke single Ill look... but not touch.

[P1NDLESK1N]

I would imagine the big 4 will announce their 2010s sometime in the next few months, no?

Sure would like to move past all these getting-my-hopes-up rumors.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by sombo

You all do realize that Kawasaki doesn't need to do any research and development for FI on the 250 right? They've had FI on it in Europe for years and still do on the 08 and 09 models. They had no choice but to go with FI for Europe because of the higher emissions standards (yes they have higher standards then the US which is actually one of the lowest of the major countries). They keep it carbed in the states because they said that US buyers biggest concern for the bike was cost and this kept the cost down.

If memory serves other countries also have taxes placed on motors over a certain CC, and in the UK, isn't there a limit to engine size based on years riding (Or age)?

If the US has a standard that said "under 3 years experience, stick with 250cc or below", then the 250 sales would increase big time. The US doesn't have that, so 250 sales are low.

Of course, I could be wrong too.

[miks]

The Poms over there have a similar law to us Aussies; where Learners are only able to ride certain bikes depending on CCs and power:weight ratio.

[richierich781]

the heck with the 600's and up. Bring on the 250's. I'll own 1 of each from every manufacturer but the ninja is always going to be my first love. hehe.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Apex

If memory serves other countries also have taxes placed on motors over a certain CC, and in the UK, isn't there a limit to engine size based on years riding (Or age)?

If the US has a standard that said "under 3 years experience, stick with 250cc or below", then the 250 sales would increase big time. The US doesn't have that, so 250 sales are low.

Of course, I could be wrong too.

If I'm not mistaken the limitation in the UK is based on hp (under 33hp for the first year). However, that has nothing to do with the FI issue. As I said, they gave us the carbs for cost reduction and gave them the FI in order to meet their higher emissions standards. This was said by Kawasaki themselves when the 08's first started coming out.

I agree that the 250 sales would increase with the adoption of a tiered license system like what Europeans use. However, the Ninja 250 has had excellent sales in the states since 08. At one of the dealerships by me they sold over 8x the amount of 250's in the early months of the 08 release as compared to the 07 models.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by sombo

If I'm not mistaken the limitation in the UK is based on hp (under 33hp for the first year). However, that has nothing to do with the FI issue. As I said, they gave us the carbs for cost reduction and gave them the FI in order to meet their higher emissions standards. This was said by Kawasaki themselves when the 08's first started coming out.

I agree that the 250 sales would increase with the adoption of a tiered license system like what Europeans use. However, the Ninja 250 has had excellent sales in the states since 08. At one of the dealerships by me they sold over 8x the amount of 250's in the early months of the 08 release as compared to the 07 models.

8x? that is crazy! Good for Kawi, but wow.

[MtnCruiser]

I think it would be great to see some other alternatives.

I would love to see Kawasaki rework the Ninja 500 like they did the 250. If they would update the appearance, shave off a little weight to get it down closer to the weight of the 250 and do a rework on the engine to make it a little smoother and add a few HP I think it could very well be the perfect bike, at least in my opinion. I really like the 250 and we are honestly having a blast with ours but there are definately times when an few more HP would very nice.

[sombo]

Yah, the dealership by me had told me in 2007 they sold like 8 250's over the summer. In 08 they had something like a total of 32 bikes sold before delivery and would have sold more had they been on the floor. This was just the first round of 08's and they sold more after that. So they at least had 4x more sold just in the opening months of the new model.


Well the easiest thing to do to update the 500 is take the newer 650 motor and shorten the stroke to make it a 500. I didn't know this until I read an article on the 650, but the outer dimensions of the 650 motor are SMALLER then that of the 500. So use an overall smaller, lighter, core motor and borrow as much from the 650 (trans, suspension, FI, that sort of thing), borrow some of the body parts from the 250 and you have a new bike that will bridge the gap and cut costs. It would be a win/win type of thing.

[Kurosaki]

hmm

If the other 3 manufacturers really want to challenge the 250, they're gonna have to make simple bare bones type 250s like the Kawasaki. I can't see a more sporty supersport type 250 succeeding here especially with the weight of the 600 class bikes coming down and nimbleness going up.

[almost40]

belum banyak data spesifikasi mesin YZF R250 ini, akan tetapi sinyalemen saya motor ini akan mengusung di produksi dengan dapur pacu minimal Twin cylinder DOHC dan didukung oleh pengabutan injeksi. Dilihat dari keberanian Yamaha menghadirkan spek ban belakang tapak lebar (banget), sepertinya power yang diusung motor ini lebih besar dari Ninja 250R. Sinyalemen kedua saya motor ini akan menemui konsumen dengan mahar yang jauh lebih tinggi dari Ninja 250R, paling tidak sampai $ 2000 lebih tinggi dari Ninja 250R sehingga keungkinan akan face-to-face langsung dengan cagiva Mito 525 dan Aprilia RS 125. Kenapa bisa? wong YZF R125 saja dijual dengan bandrol yang beda-beda tipis dengan Ninja 250R yaitu sekitar $3500, Mongtor ini pasti lebih mahal dari R125.

I have no idea what this says but I do see Twin cylinder DOHC after YZF R250 I tried to ue the windows translater but it says this is english. Go figure.

[NaughtyusMaximus]

I believe it is Indonesian. I get a partial transation out of Google:

not many data specification engine YZF R250, but I sinyalemen motor akan mengusung in this production with a minimal kitchen spur Twin cylinder DOHC and supported by pengabutan injection. View from the courage to bring spek Yamaha rear tire tread width (up), it seems that carried power this motor is greater than Ninja 250R. I Sinyalemen second motor will meet with the consumer portion of far higher than the Ninja 250R, at least up to $ 2,000 higher than the Ninja 250R akan keungkinan so that face-to-face with a cagiva Mito Aprilia RS 525 and 125. Why can? wong YZF R125 are sold with a bandrol different backgrounds with a thin Ninja 250R is about $ 3500, Mongtor this certainly is higher than R125.

[almost40]

so a twin 250 with FI and more ponys than the 250R
and of course more expensive.

[sofo]

Originally Posted by sombo

Well the easiest thing to do to update the 500 is take the newer 650 motor and shorten the stroke to make it a 500. I didn't know this until I read an article on the 650, but the outer dimensions of the 650 motor are SMALLER then that of the 500. So use an overall smaller, lighter, core motor and borrow as much from the 650 (trans, suspension, FI, that sort of thing), borrow some of the body parts from the 250 and you have a new bike that will bridge the gap and cut costs. It would be a win/win type of thing.

This makes a lot of sense in bringing the bike to market without having to develop an entirely new engine or simply carry over the existing 500cc engine. I like it. My wildest thought was to make a 375cc triple by adding a cylinder to the 250cc engine. More development involved but it would make for a very interesting and distinct bike in-between the 250R and 650R.

[beowuff]

Originally Posted by MtnCruiser

I would love to see Kawasaki rework the Ninja 500 like they did the 250.

They did. It's the 650R. I doubt the 500 will be around much longer. I doubt they are even making any more of them. I don't think the 500 was ever a very big seller. Most people either bought 250s or went up to a 600+. It wouldn't surprise me at all if what we see of the 500s right now is just left over stock getting liquidated...

[miks]

Originally Posted by NaughtyusMaximus

kitchen spur Twin cylinder DOHC and supported by pengabutan injection.

Wouldn't mind one of those babies. Sounds crazy!!!! I wonder if the kitchen has a dishwasher.

[Syphen]

Originally Posted by Alex

The latest rumors I've heard have this R4 using a 250cc single, not a twin, and certainly not a four. If it does come to pass, it probably will be very similar the the one they are now using in those WR250R and WR250X machines. Peak rear wheel horsepower on those is in the mid 20's, right in line with our ninjette mill.

Probably a good bet. There is a video on youtube of a couple timed drags at the strip between a WR250X vs a Ninja 250R. The WR250X proved to be a faster bike which dispells a lot of peoples arguments about a single being "crap".

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

See that's not fair...you guys over there get wayyyyy more bikes than we do. Up here in Canada we don't get anything ....except that CBR125...but that thing's like a scooter haha.

We get grey market bikes from importers.. I personally own a 1992 (1990?) CBR250RR.

Originally Posted by kkim

Wayan,

Ever consider going into the gray market business?

Grey Market 250's rule.

Originally Posted by wayanlam

so your saying that Yamaha have built up a completely new bike from scratch for the 250? cos other ppl are just saying that it would most likely just be a 1 or max 2 cylinder engine that they already have off a previous bike~ maybe slightly tweaked.
somehow i see the point in putting out a bike in the 250 class that is top in its class (bragging rights?), but i think people would have a hard time choosing to spend around 8 grand for a 250 (no matter how good it is) when you can get a 600cc bike for a similar price, and the "bigger is better" mentality is deeply imbeded into almost all of us . unless yamaha is trying to just target avid 250cc 4 stroke racers, lol.

I can almost gaurentee that they would not put the money to engineer an entire new power plant when they are sitting on the current liquid cooled, fuel injected WR250 engine design.

Originally Posted by kkim

stick an fzr 250 motor in the 125 chassis... not really building a whole new bike... parts bin engineering.

http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/mod...zr250%2086.htm

I wish.. those FZR250 motors, like my CBR250's motor are fantastic little screamers and pull away from a Ninja 250R with ease.


I have an issue of Cycle Canada from a month or two ago and they interviewed the director of marketing for Honda Canada and it specifically said that Honda would be introducing a "new" bike in Canada and North America as a step up from the CBR125. It went on to say that it would be a 4 cylinder 600cc bike and would be on sale for 2010 or 2011. My guess is the EU-only 2009 Hornet 600. Its sad considering that the 250RR motor (engine code MC14e) was built from 1986 right up to 1999. As much of a dreamer as I am, I know that we will probably never see a 250cc 4 cylinder "screamer" like those old bikes nor a two-stroke here with our emission laws.

I am skeptical about this yamaha design. That magazine article was posted and then no new news has ever surfaced about it.

[ManyCavies]

Ben Bostrom just twittered this;

Link to original page on YouTube.

funny!

[angrycrow]

check out whats behind me , that thing is fast as hell no joke. keeping up and beating some 600's of the line. I havent heard anything about the yamaha 250 coming out on this side of the pond. im seeing if i can get my hands on a aprilla rs250 though. those things are little speed demons

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by angrycrow

check out whats behind me , that thing is fast as hell no joke. keeping up and beating some 600's of the line. I havent heard anything about the yamaha 250 coming out on this side of the pond. im seeing if i can get my hands on a aprilla rs250 though. those things are little speed demons

the aprillia 250.... sigh~ ive seen one or two here in Bali, i don't wanna know how much it cost them to get it shipped over... they aren't cheap. the 250 2 stroke, that baby has like 60 Hp... drool, while its smaller sibling, the 125 has close to 30 Hp if i remember correctly, which was similar to my old ninja 150rr that's 2 stroke~

[almost40]

I seen the youtube of the Yamaha vrs the Kawi. The yami was out of steam at the end of the track. Ill stipulate that if the race was another 100 yards the Kawi would have passed the yami and drove away. Ill bet theres at LEAST a 15 mph difference in top speed. On top of that mods to a twin are alot more effective vrs a single.

[Spork]

I think this machine looks beautiful...
Toss on FI and 2 maybe 4 cyl. (anything like 40ish hp would be amazing)
Nice fat rear tire, like in the pic
and i would have a two-bike armada in my garage, this(pretty much any color) and the 08 blue ninja 250

[ken_here]

I might have missed mention of this mail-order 250cc bike coming to your doorstep. I think the engine is made in the same factory suzuki uses? I have not read up on it enough.

more info in the news forum here. ninjette.org > General > Motorcycling News

Edit to claify: The USA 250cc model looks the same as this 125cc photo.
MOre info Here also

Megelli-Motorcycles-125r1.jpg

[andrewexd]

its only a 5 speed

[sombo]

That bike won't sell with the ninjette as it's competition especially at nearly the same price.

* Type – 4-Stroke, Single Cylinder, Liquid Cooled
* Bore x Stroke – 65.5mm x 68mm
* Compression Ratio – 9.5:1
* Carburetion – CVK30
* Displacement – 249 cc
* Max. Torgue – 17.8 / 7500
* Horse Power – 16.2 HP
* Ignition – CDI
* Transmission – 5-speed

16hp with a 5-speed? You'd be lucky to make highway speeds with that at max throttle.

[Purspeed]

Its a good looking bike from the side profile.

However, to make this competitive with the Ninja 250 (reliability and resale value), it will have to have a lot more HP's, use as many off-the-shelf parts and have to be built problem-free and have above-average customer service and warranty service.

In other words, it will have to do all those things that Hyosung doesn't.

[Cedilla]

^Should be about as fast as a Honda Rebel, I think I would pass on that one.

[ironglory]

Originally Posted by almost40

Give me a yami 250 4cyl making about 45 horse Fuel injected, adjustable suspension front and rear, an aluminum frame and twin rotors up front and Ill be all over it. Make it about $5250 and I will worship the Yamaha GOD of chioce.

You ask too much. LOL - not a bad idea though.

[wayanlam]

i looked into this Megelli bike a couple weeks back since its apparently available here in Bali already. from pictures, the bike looks quite nice, but the riding position is tougher on the back/shoulders than the ninja. the selling price here is around $2700 or 2800 i believe, which is in a way, a little over priced, since for not that much more, you can buy a Ninja 150rr (2 stroke) that's way more powerful, and im sure is better made/quality for about $3100.

Technical Specifications:
Engine
* Type – 4-Stroke, Single Cylinder, Liquid Cooled
* Bore x Stroke – 65.5mm x 68mm
* Compression Ratio – 9.5:1
* Carburetion – CVK30
* Displacement – 249 cc
* Max. Torgue – 17.8 / 7500
* Horse Power – 16.2 HP
* Ignition – CDI
* Transmission – 5-speed

from talking to some local people, they told me that these Chinese/Taiwanese made engines don't last long. usually after about 2 years they need to be practically replaced (depending on riding habits i guess). various brands/models have been available here in Indonesia, but i don't think they ever took off (hardly see them) since they have this bad reputation.

the 16 hp is really lame, i read a review of someone test riding this bike, and they said that the 250 ninja overlapped him repeatedly throughout the test ride, lol.

i guess the only thing going for it is the slightly cheap-er price, and the good looks. besides that... well everyone will have their own opinion i'm sure~

[P1NDLESK1N]

That Megelli is DEFINITELY nice looking.


But...
"At 248 lbs, this unit will be even more fuel efficient and be able to push to speeds of 75-80mph."

[P1NDLESK1N]

After drooling over this bikes looks and then becoming a bit disappointed about the specs listed, I emailed Megelli on their 'QLINK' site about the 250R.

Information regarding Megelli 250R for the U.S.?

Many people are curious about this bike stateside, hopefully breaking into the increased Kawasaki's Ninja 250R sales.

I would like to ask a couple questions on behalf of a few forums I frequent. Your responses will be shown to many potential costumers, and others whom might gain more interest.

The description on the website states "Available in June 2009." So I assume it hasn't been updated. Is there an ETA for the bike in the U.S.?
If not, can you provide us with any details regarding what stage its at during its development?

Regarding the bikes specifications listed on the Qlink website, are they all correct? Most importantly the engine's specs?

Any other information provided will be highly appreciated.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

And their response:

RE: Information regarding the Megelli 250R for the U.S.?

Unfortunately it seems that we are just teasing you; definitely not on purpose though! I went in and spoke with my boss today and he is telling me that the manufacturer is teasing us as well. They ran into some small bumps and want to make sure when we do get it out, it is perfect…and we agree! Our quality control team is over there now and they are working on improving the performance of the engine. We would rather put it off for a while than put products out there less than par.

The good news is that we are in the final stages of having the Megelli EPA approved for sell in the United States (this is a BIG step) so once the manufacturer gets everything straightened out and production gets going, we will be EXCITED to get the Megelli out on the road. We are telling people not to hold their breath until the end of this year or the beginning of next year though! My boss told me he is going to start saying November, even though he expects that it may be sooner

The specs should be very accurate as some of the bikes have confirmed, but as I said, we want even more performance out of the engine, so if anything changes, I think it will be small…and for the better!

Again, I am sorry I don’t have a better ETA for you, I wish I did! The process is very long and involved and we are working hard at it. We cannot wait to get these bikes out either, anticipation builds daily, but we must wait if we want a GREAT product, and we do!

Thanks for your interest, and keep checking our blog out, I am sure we will post when anything substantial happens!


Tamara LaRose

Customer Relations

QLINK MOTOR

TEL: 866-626-8073

Web: www.qlinkmotor.com

Blog: www.qlinkmotorblog.com


Riding a motorcycle on today’s highways, you have to ride in a very defensive manner. You have to be a good rider and you have to have both hands and both feet on the controls at all times.
- Evel Knievel

[tylernt]

Originally Posted by beowuff

They did. It's the 650R. I doubt the 500 will be around much longer.

I've read conflicting things. Some say 2009 is the last year for the 500, others say 2010. But either way, it's definitely near the end.

Means I better buy up all the aftermarket parts I want now, before they're discontinued!

To be honest, I never understood why the Ninja 250, 500, and 650 were different bikes. If I were Kawasaki, I'd put the different engines in the same frame. Maybe with upgraded but bolt-compatible brakes and suspension. I must be spoiled by Volkswagen's Lego-like part swappability, even across different generations of models.

[edwinmcq]

Originally Posted by tylernt

... I'd put the different engines in the same frame. Maybe with upgraded but bolt-compatible brakes and suspension. I must be spoiled by Volkswagen's Lego-like part swappability, even across different generations of models.

Oh that is just crazy talk!

[Nemesis]

When this gets released in the U.S., bye-bye Kawi, hello Yami!

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...med/21970.html

[Alex]

/merged

[Nemesis]

Oops...thx Alex!