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Old May 13th, 2022, 07:50 PM   #41
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
use some calipers to measure wire-diameter on spring. We can make some good guesses as to alloy used and calculate spring-rate.

Also measure gap between coils at tightly-wound end.
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Old May 13th, 2022, 07:57 PM   #42
Bob KellyIII
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I think I found a scale that would work......at " https://www.amazon.com/CooPee-Platform-Capacity-Shipping-Weighing/dp/B08DNYGF7J/ref=sr_1_18_sspa?crid=3D5903GMQF3Y9&keywords=scale+for+packages&qid=1652495873&s prefix=SCALE,aps,295&sr=8-18-spons&psc=1" .....(without the quotes)
660lb should get it to compress some ! twice the weight of the bike after all ! LOL
.....
....I might get that .... and see what these springs actually are....
I've noticed that the Race tech spring' number is just a part number and it does not tell you the spring rate... the weight they gave me on the invoice is 500 lbs so it varies alot of what they say it is and what you actually get.... I would almost bet you the number is it's actual rate ,not what they say it is.... "it's close enough...ship it!"...LOL.
...
Bob......
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Old May 13th, 2022, 08:09 PM   #43
Bob KellyIII
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I have some real nice calipers now... I can do that ! I also have some micrometers but I am not real sure how to read the silly things HAHAHA
in all my years of motorcycling I've never needed them you can easily tell when the piston is wore out because of the slop in the cylinder you don't need a feeler gauge or Micrometer to know that ! end play of crank shafts can be done with a feeler gauge if you set up a bolt and bar set up... but 90% of the time if it's got end play in the crank that you can feel it needs new bearings anyway ! LOL.....
.....
anyway..... I'll see if I can do dat...
Later !
Bob.......
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Old May 14th, 2022, 08:56 PM   #44
Bob KellyIII
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OK good news I think I found the problem BESIDES the spring....
I got to looking at the shock in the vice it moves up and down nicely but with alot of resistance as a shock should....
I got looking at the length of the springs and the length of the threads and it hit me..... the shock must be kept from bottoming out it's only got about
4" or 5 " of travel in the shock itself did I screw it up by taking out all the preload ? with the shock fully extended and the spring on the shock ( the stock one) there is about 1" of threads left on the bottom of the upper part of the shock when the adjusting nuts finally contact the spring and there is about 4" of threads above that..... so when I backed off the pre-load nuts to the top of the shock the bike lowered accordingly... the problem is the shock is bottomed out in this position and the spring is not being compressed at all
....and I wonder why it rides so hard !?!?! of course it rides hard the shock is bottomed out !!!!! when I lower the pre-load that action moves the shock piston closer to the bottom.... but when the shock's stroke is so short you do not have that much to play with.....
SO.... what I've done, and am going to do .... is put the preload adjustment nuts at the top of the spring (and lock them there) with the shock fully extended....that will give me MAXIMUM shock travel....and unfortunately maximum seat height too... I think the only way to get the seat height lower is a lowering kit or make up my own horseshoe/dog bone
....
....
"who would'a thunk it" that backing off the preload nuts would bottom out the shock ? that never once crossed my mind, but that is what is going on on this bike.... all this time it was My screwup of not understanding the system it's used in ! AURGH !
I have no doubt it will still ride like a truck... a tall truck mind you but still a very hard ride because before I did anything to that bike I rode it down Hoy road and it liked to beat me to death.... so I don't expect any change
but at least it won't be bottomed out all the time !
Oh well Live and learn !
....

at least I took the Triumph out for a ride today had to push it the last 200 feet to the gas pump because I ran out of gas and blew a fuze at the same time.... still can't figure that one out ! LOL....
and Yes I had to clean the pilot jets to get it to run good again....
I'm hoping the new gas and the run will make her happier now....
....
later all !
Bob.......
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Old May 15th, 2022, 04:12 PM   #45
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Bob, don't quite understand your "bottomed out shock" idea. Please post photos of shock:

1. Bare shock with no spring, showing all adjustment threads. With ruler showing eyelet-to-eyelet length

2. Shock with spring in "bottomed out" configuration

3. Shock in new "not bottomed out" config

Thx
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Old May 15th, 2022, 10:06 PM   #46
Bob KellyIII
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I can't do that buddy I put the shock back in the bike with the stock spring
it does compress a bit when you take it off the side stand and stand it up ... but when I sit on it it's no give at all.... weird !
.... the shock itself has a 2" stroke believe it or not !
and with that short of a stroke you can adjust up the pre-load nuts to the point of the shock bottoming out and the nuts are completely clear of the spring
as you adjust up the preload nuts you drop the shock piston in it's cylinder
if you do that far enough you'll bottom out the piston in the shock !
as the swing arm comes up and the frame of the bike goes down the shock is compressed I had it all the way backed out on the pre-load nuts to get the seat as low as possible.... bad move ! at the most you can go about 1/2" with this shock and spring and that's probably WHY they put such a heavy spring in there with only 2" of travel before bottoming out it doesn't leave much wiggle room
so I put the pre-load nuts at the top of the spring with the shock fully extended on the bench and locked the nuts together there....then put it all back together.... and yes Now I can only touch with the balls of my feet not flat footed anymore.... Phittttt !
but I want that full extent of that short travel shock which I probably have now.... ( not that I would bet on it by any means, LOL.because you can see it compress a little when taking it off the side stand ) not much but some.
I didn't take it out for a ride today I got fussing with the Triumph instead
I'll do that tomorrow .... I expect the same hard ride I had when I first rode it... but at least I know it is not bottoming out because the way I had it.
I expect it to be hard now, although I have let the air out of the air shock and that should help some but I aired up the rear tire again so it's going to be rough ! but at least on the big bumps there might be some cushion their wasn't any before a lump of asphalt on Hoy road would literally dislodge my helmet ! and I strap it down good too ! that is because I was riding it with the shock bottomed out and the spring had no effect...it wasn't even in the picture ! now the spring will be working and we'll see how bad it is !
sense the first ride I have been fine tuning this suspension I got the front forks real close to the point of not diving when the front brake is applied
which is good, and I loosened up the rear shock because they had it on the hardest slowest position now it is as fast as it can go !
although I am not real sure that is going in the right direction or not on the rear shock I figure the faster reaction should give me the smoothest ride
it will also catapult me over the handle bars because there is LESS dampening too... so if that becomes a problem I'll turn it down in the back.
.....
Yes My initial quest for flat footed ness on the RX4 has been a boondoggle !
a total screw up because of that short stroke in the shock the only way to lower that bike in the rear is with a lowering kit, or for me to make one myself !....... the front forks will go back up...I haven't done that yet but I will
but I will not put them all the way flush with the triple trees... I'll leave some rake in it because I like the quicker steering that provides !
.....
yah a 17" shock with only 2" of travel boggles the mind at least 4" of threads for the preload nuts so you can back them all the way off and bottom out the shock...... it's the only bike I have ever messed with that you can do that !
I guess they used a part they had on hand because it makes no sense at all !
....
Normally when you back off the preload to the top of the shock you have plenty of travel left in the shock to function... that worked on the XR650L I had ... but not on this beast you back off the preload nuts and it bottoms out the shock completely ! STUPID beyond words !
....
oh and the center to center on the suspension is 2.75" not quite 3" just so you know... LOL....
....
did that answer your questions ?
....
Bob.....
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Old Yesterday, 01:25 AM   #47
DannoXYZ
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
not really. I'll work up some pictures for you to verify if I understand you correct.

Also with 1:3 rocker ratio, 2" travel on shock is 6" range on swingarm!

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; Yesterday at 07:20 AM.
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