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Old October 14th, 2015, 05:30 AM   #1
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Chinese radical

Got my attention which is unusual for a Chinese bike.
Not sure about whether this will see production but an advance on their CG125 clones.
Any one know anything about it?
(I see the haters are having a field day in the comments, since they have not ridden it I will disregard.)

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old October 14th, 2015, 05:59 AM   #2
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This is the first time I have seen this bike but I like it!

I have a hard time seeing it fit the needs of most Americans but I could see where it'd be a huge hit in say, China or India. I didn't catch the price. I wonder which market segment it fits in with all of the "high quality parts" and DLC coating. That has to add quite a bit of cost.

With that said... A lot of cost comes from supply and demand. Id be happy if they DLC'd the crap out of everything so the price for having forks and what not would come down substantially.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 06:04 AM   #3
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No, no, and no

The front suspension design is nothing new, its just the Chinese stealing other companies ideas and acting like it's their own.

How can they say it doesn't have a chassis? Sure looks like it has one to me.

The stopping distance from 60kmh to 0 might be a world record. Yeah right.

The front suspension increases the safty of the motorcycle. Apparently it's so safe that you don't need to wear any gear when you ride it.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 07:34 AM   #4
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I have a chinese bike....
The ninja is by far a better bike. Better fit, better rust protection, better power, better suspension, better motor...
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Old October 14th, 2015, 09:29 AM   #5
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Wow, looks like a poor attempt at center hub steering (Bimota style) mixed with BMW's Telelever suspension. Had they succeeded in the later the bike would demonstrate anti-dive while braking.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 09:47 AM   #6
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Very interesting! 20.5hp out of 150cc (1hp:7.3cc) , that's impressive, and better than either the 250 (1hp:10cc) or 300 (1hp:7.5cc), especially for an air-cooled engine.

Great to see them experimenting. Not sure I'd own it over my ninja, not a fan of the looks, but great to see them stepping up and trying.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 10:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by spooph View Post
Very interesting! 20.5hp out of 150cc (1hp:7.3cc) , that's impressive, and better than either the 250 (1hp:10cc) or 300 (1hp:7.5cc), especially for an air-cooled engine.
Think there's a little problem with your math there. I'm sure the 20.5 hp number is at the crank, while the numbers you used for the 250/300 are hp at the wheel.

There's no way a Chinese air/oil cooled single is making more hp/liter than the ninjettes liquid cooled twin.
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Old October 14th, 2015, 10:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjamunky85 View Post
Think there's a little problem with your math there. I'm sure the 20.5 hp number is at the crank, while the numbers you used for the 250/300 are hp at the wheel.

There's no way a Chinese air/oil cooled single is making more hp/liter than the ninjettes liquid cooled twin.
That's exactly what I'm saying! You make a good point however, would love to see a dyno of thing to get WHP....
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Old October 14th, 2015, 10:46 AM   #9
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The company was created by a French guy (Michel Marqueton) who lives in China and also manages a racing team
So it is Chinese in location but more French by design.
(It is him in the video.)
Most of the pages about it seem to be in terrible "Chinglish" but this one is fairly clear.
http://www.micantech.com/en/about.as...=2&cate_bid=28
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Old October 14th, 2015, 03:42 PM   #10
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it's new technology if you're BMW in the early 80s.
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Old October 18th, 2015, 06:26 AM   #11
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I dont know about this particular motorcycle but I just returned from the Philippines and the streets are full of broken Chinese motorcycles! China shipped millions of clone bikes all over Asia with a low selling point and good/competitive performance. The bike were great for a year or so of hard use then the motors began to wear out and smoke! I spoke with my brother-in-law and he said the Chinese did not properly apply the DLC coating (too thin/uneven coverage) and the motors wear out much sooner than the Japanese sources they coppied! They are cheap to repair/replace parts but who wants to rebuild their motor every 1.5 years (this comes from a guy with a Ducati that requires valve adjust every 6000 miles)? The front suspension on the new bike has been done multiple times before by Yamaha, BMW, Bimota and others. The front forks on a bike are more flexible than this system but the reason we still use them is because they provide the feedback necessary for racers at high levels of grip. Since this bike is only 20Hp(claimed---Ha Ha Screamer engine!) I dont believe this will be an issue for this street bike! Could be an affordable and fun daily/commuter bike if and only if they do their homework and get all the DLC sprayed on correctly. Better check what kind of warranty they offer!
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Old October 18th, 2015, 08:05 AM   #12
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Yes Ducati999, quality control is an issue. According to post #4 on this blog he couldn't get the contractor to build the engines to his standard so he dropped them and started building them in his own plant which probably involved an extra tooling overhead

http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/sh...pension-System
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Old October 18th, 2015, 08:50 AM   #13
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Anyone have an idea what the price is on one of these vs the other Chinese bikes?
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Old October 18th, 2015, 11:30 AM   #14
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At least interesting to watch.. Not sure if the product is of any value, though
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Old November 8th, 2015, 04:37 PM   #15
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First time I've seen this kind of front suspension system on a motorcycle. I find it strange and possibly dangerous.

Is it just me or would a front end collision to this bike lead to potential damage throughout the entire frame of the bike ? Since it is all "interconnected" it seems, as opposed to a traditional fork system, I'm sure "energy transfer" would play a big role to multiple damage points (bends, cracks, warping) to other areas of the frame/body...

Also, was the guy riding the bike near the end of the video, super small ? or is the bike super big ? ... I'm sure a 125/150cc doesn't look THAT huge .??
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Old November 8th, 2015, 05:49 PM   #16
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It is called " hub center steering" and is old and well established, just not on mass production bikes.
A bunch of engineering friends from Cambridge University used to build "feet forward" motorcycles using it back in the 1980's.
Friend and Journo Paul Blezard was a leading light, some pics from the old days here
http://www.realclassic.co.uk/quasar06062000.html
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 07:32 PM   #17
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Besides Bimota, and BMW, Yamaha had a "forkless" hub bike, in the early '90s. GTS1000 .

The biggest drawback from this style of steering, is that many riders can't "feel" what the front tire is doing. The feedback doesn't translate the same, as a direct linear feel from conventional forks. Of course that was many years ago. Maybe some of that has been changed, with the newer iterations.
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Old January 2nd, 2016, 10:29 PM   #18
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I'm partial to the Elf endurance racers, among older examples. Norman Hossack did some nifty stuff as well.
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Originally Posted by GAU-8 View Post
Besides Bimota, and BMW, Yamaha had a "forkless" hub bike, in the early '90s. GTS1000 .

The biggest drawback from this style of steering, is that many riders can't "feel" what the front tire is doing. The feedback doesn't translate the same, as a direct linear feel from conventional forks. Of course that was many years ago. Maybe some of that has been changed, with the newer iterations.
As far as I've heard or read, that difference in feeling has not changed. The last newer iteration I recall hearing about - and there does not seem to be many - was the Taylormade CARBON2 designed for Moto2 (note: not hub centered, but alternative front suspension setups are rare enough for me to feel comfortable lumping them all in together ). To my knowledge, it has been adopted by zero teams and contested zero actual races in any category.

Having never ridden a setup like this, I wonder: is it an actual lack of information from the bike, or just the shortcoming of riders who've spent their entire lives learning to interpret conventional forks?
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Old January 4th, 2016, 11:01 PM   #19
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Social progress is not the same as social change.

This bike may be an example of social change, but it does not strike me as a form of social progress.

Advances in scientific engineering exist regardless of social progress or change.

This bike reminds me of the first mass-production 500cc two stroke. It was trendy, and it sold. Ultimately, it was pulled from the lineup because it did not meet the same mass appeal as it did initially in demand. Too many idiots got hurt, and although the publicity was good for marketing -- it was ultimately bad for business.

Chinese flood the market with poorly engineered bikes. Poor kids can afford them and become smart enough to fix and re-engineer them for continued profit. Social progress has occurred. Social change was too occupied with being trendy and selling the next cool idea.

In other news, how does it respond to forced induction?
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Old January 6th, 2016, 07:02 AM   #20
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Robot made of 'Flesh' might be okay but your phrase "robot made of meat" is plain disgusting.
Flesh can be vibrant and meat is dead and a foodstuff,
Human 'meat' as a concept has cannibalistic undertones
(you are in good company, Scott Adams mis uses it as well. )
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Old January 6th, 2016, 08:53 AM   #21
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Potato, potahto
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Old January 6th, 2016, 09:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noobman View Post
First time I've seen this kind of front suspension system on a motorcycle. I find it strange and possibly dangerous.

Is it just me or would a front end collision to this bike lead to potential damage throughout the entire frame of the bike ? Since it is all "interconnected" it seems, as opposed to a traditional fork system, I'm sure "energy transfer" would play a big role to multiple damage points (bends, cracks, warping) to other areas of the frame/body...

Also, was the guy riding the bike near the end of the video, super small ? or is the bike super big ? ... I'm sure a 125/150cc doesn't look THAT huge .??
No more dangerous than any other front suspension in a collision. Any collision this bike that is severe enough to damage the frame on this bike would very likely result in frame damage to a conventionally suspended bike. It's possible that it could survive crash damage even better than a bike with regular forks because the suspension has multiple mounting points and the impact force would be spread out over more than just the single mounting point of a forked bike. Bikes with telescopic forks have to have heavily reinforced steering heads in order to take the force applied by a long lever. That's not really a good thing as far as weight and handling is concerned.

I'm sure that when the first bike with telescopic front forks came out there was a guy who was concerned that the front wheel would drop right off the bike if you did a wheelie
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Old January 6th, 2016, 11:23 AM   #23
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Quote:
I'm sure that when the first bike with any deviation from the accepted norm came out there was a guy who was concerned that catastrophic failure would result
Might as well generalize it. You can find examples on this very forum.
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Old January 6th, 2016, 11:26 AM   #24
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Old January 6th, 2016, 11:44 AM   #25
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Might as well generalize it. You can find examples on this very forum.
Yeah, You should see Tony Foale's sort of universal triple clamp setup... For the steering stem it uses a threaded rod you can get from the local hardware store. Gets people poopin' their pants when you tell them you're going to do something like this:
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Old January 6th, 2016, 12:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toEleven View Post
I'm partial to the Elf endurance racers, among older examples. Norman Hossack did some nifty stuff as well.
As far as I've heard or read, that difference in feeling has not changed. The last newer iteration I recall hearing about - and there does not seem to be many - was the Taylormade CARBON2 designed for Moto2 (note: not hub centered, but alternative front suspension setups are rare enough for me to feel comfortable lumping them all in together ). To my knowledge, it has been adopted by zero teams and contested zero actual races in any category.

Having never ridden a setup like this, I wonder: is it an actual lack of information from the bike, or just the shortcoming of riders who've spent their entire lives learning to interpret conventional forks?
When you are racing at the highest levels, the difference between first and also-ran is only a few tenths of a second. Any potential advantage must be weighed against the time it will take in learning how to exploit a new setup and the available time for finding that advantage is extremely short. Often times the closeness of the racing makes it a very tough choice to forsake a known quantity to gain a possible advantage. Think about it this way: In the Moto2 paddock there are any number of race winning Ohlins fork experts that you can glean setup information from. If you have your own newly designed suspension system, guess who the expert is. You are. Something that shows even more clearly how tough it is to gain an advantage is the number of teams running Ohlins forks in MotoGP vs the number of teams running Showa forks. (I think maybe one guy was running Showa last year.) Now, I bet if you or I rode on that Showa fork we would think that it was the greatest thing since somebody thought it was a good idea to put a motor on a bicycle, but that guy who had to use the Showa forks was thinking only one thing: "I wish I had the Ohlins forks." And we are talking about the difference between two of the same type of forks that are the very best that the two companies can make. That is why we don't see eight different front ends on racing grids.

In the long run, I don't think that racers care what the front end looks like as long as they can feel what the front end is doing. It's a wonderful thing when you get on a bike that has really good front end feel. Instant confidence. My best example of a bike with awesome front end feel is my old Honda RS125. Best way I can describe how it felt is that it was like you had your hand right on the pavement.

You have to approach your racing a lot differently if the front end performs well, but you can't feel what is going on. Without the feel, you have to take an approach where you go into a corner a little faster and kind of hold your breath till you get through it and find out everything is ok. With good front end feel, you can approach the corner a little faster because you can tell more of what's going on and you can deal with things (little slides, etc) before you wind up on your head. It's definitely less stressful to work on going faster when you have good feedback from the front end.

BTW, the 250 Ninja really is surprisingly good as far as feel goes.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 03:55 AM   #27
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