right hand kick stand equivalent?

[Yakaru]

So this will probably be an extremely odd question, but: I'm trying to work on my body positioning some in prep for next year. On the kick stand I can get a close enough approximation of a left side corner for what I want (core & leg strength to hold myself to the tank, flexibility for letting my inner leg and body drop down, checking where I'm positioned on the seat, etc.) but I'm not sure of a way to get this for a right hander.

Any genius ideas?

[Triple Jim]

Personally, I wouldn't put my weight on any of my motorcycles while they are on their side stands, although I'm sure I weigh more than you do. The stands really aren't designed to hold up a bike and a rider.

If you're trying to roughly simulate what happens when riding, you'd want to keep the bike vertical, since it's always approximately in line with the forces involved. I've seen body position practiced with a motorcycle on a track type stand that's stable enough for that sort of thing.

Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqIYr81zTxU

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Yakaru

..... Any genius ideas?

As well explained by Jim, relocating your body over the bike while it is in a vertical position mimics the direction of the forces that happen while cornering.
The only difference is that your body will "weight" more the harder you corner.

If your bike is leaning against the sidekick stand and your weight force points vertically down, you are practicing on something that will not be replicated in real cornering.
The speed and turning of the bike create an artificial gravitational field that pulls you and your bike in a diagonal direction: hence, the needed lean angle.

Before riders started hanging off, the body and the bike remained aligned along that diagonal direction.

Please, read this:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119958









In these videos, please note the saddle that holds the rear tire in a vertical position:

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Triple Jim]

Wow, that rider had a lot of nerve to do the "Rider above the bike pushing it down" photo!

[Yakaru]

That makes a certain amount of sense but doesn't really align with my experience. I've tried upright in the past and while it can help it doesn't really give me feedback on if I'm locked in well. Your description also makes me question why CSS has a bike frame on hydraulics to allow it to simulate leaning in both directions; but that's neither here nor there.

It's mostly just a boredom/experimentation idea anyway, so no biggie

[Yakaru]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Wow, that rider had a lot of nerve to do the "Rider above the bike pushing it down" photo!

That one actually resembles my 'default' riding posture, thus the reason I want to see what I can do to break the habit even at 0 mph. :P

[cbinker]

you could put the bike on stands and run a strap on side for added safety and work an over exaggerated position. work on holding the tank with outside knee.

[Triple Jim]

Have you tried hanging off at low speed? Last year I wanted to see how dragging a knee with my 250 felt, so I went to a nearby deserted cul-de-sac in a new subdivision. I started riding in circles at low speed, gradually speeding up and hanging off more and more until I touched down. I did it on both sides a few times, and rode away with a better understanding of the motorcycle. I probably never got to 25 mph, but the body position was the same as it would be at higher speeds.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Yakaru

That one actually resembles my 'default' riding posture, thus the reason I want to see what I can do to break the habit even at 0 mph. :P

Your eyes and head should lead and your upper body should follow.
Practice hanging off only with your head and shoulders (no butt sliding).
That will help getting familiar with a point of view that is off the center-line of the bike.

Keeping from imputing unintended steering while sliding your butt over before initiating the turn may be the hardest part.
Use the knees as leverage rather than your hands and arms.

A confident lock against the tank of the non-hanging knee depends on where along the seat your butt is and how much friction your boot has against the peg.
That friction is greater when you apply a decent amount of pressure down the peg.

As advised above, perfect the technique at slow speeds ....... and pay close attention to how the cornering forces feel.
That way, the attention that you dedicate to the rush caused by speed can be used to getting familiar with those feelings.

Your control on vision and your feeling of the forces will tell you whether or not you are cornering properly.

[Yakaru]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Your eyes and head should lead and your upper body should follow.
Practice hanging off only with your head and shoulders (no butt sliding).
That will help getting familiar with a point of view that is off the center-line of the bike.

Keeping from imputing unintended steering while sliding your butt over before initiating the turn may be the hardest part.
Use the knees as leverage rather than your hands and arms.

A confident lock against the tank of the non-hanging knee depends on where along the seat your butt is and how much friction your boot has against the peg.
That friction is greater when you apply a decent amount of pressure down the peg.

As advised above, perfect the technique at slow speeds ....... and pay close attention to how the cornering forces feel.
That way, the attention that you dedicate to the rush caused by speed can be used to getting familiar with those feelings.

Your control on vision and your feeling of the forces will tell you whether or not you are cornering properly.

You just described like 2/3rds of my track days last year -- squeeze the tank with both legs, move the head/torso over. I actually had some track day instructors giving {uninvited} feedback by trying to "correct" it.

I'm actually pretty good at moving around the seat with my legs, my issues tend to be that I end up on the wrong part of the seat fore/aft (so I've got less tank contact to work with on the outside due to angles) and some lack of flexibility to address. I also had some major gear issues that were making both of these worse.

Definitely intending to get what practice I can in once there isn't snow on the ground. I'm far better at seat position on Saturn (300 street/track) than Zero (s1000 track only), which makes the 'fix/evaluate while going slow' a bit harder (though I am in the beginner/relaxed group still, so I probably have some leeway)

[csmith12]

You have a pair of solid stands?

You "should" be moving your bumm off the seat much of of the time while the bike is straight up and down. So practicing knee to knee to move your bumm off the seat while the bike is on stands is perfectly fine. Of course the except to that is the hip flick, but even then... it's still done the very same way. Those same stands will work for upper body only practice as well.

Be mindful of doing this on cheap or weak stands!

Another option would be to use a very high quality wheel chalk or a lift table, where the front can be locked in tight. You can also strap the bike as you would similar to trailering to haul to the track. I have helped many riders while their bike is strapped in for the ride home.

Hope that helps.

[Yakaru]

Originally Posted by csmith12

You have a pair of solid stands?

You "should" be moving your bumm off the seat much of of the time while the bike is straight up and down. So practicing knee to knee to move your bumm off the seat while the bike is on stands is perfectly fine. Of course the except to that is the hip flick, but even then... it's still done the very same way. Those same stands will work for upper body only practice as well.

Be mindful of doing this on cheap or weak stands!

Another option would be to use a very high quality wheel chalk or a lift table, where the front can be locked in tight. You can also strap the bike as you would similar to trailering to haul to the track. I have helped many riders while their bike is strapped in for the ride home.

Hope that helps.

Yeah, "set up early" -- I've got a full set of Pit Bull stands (rear and front, spool and forks), and moving around on the bike mid-turn is definitely not the most stable thing to do (except for very intentional things like the hook turn).

The advantage to being on the bike leaned over (from my view) is feeling the weight being carried in the leg and the stretch through the hips.

Oh, realized this might explain where/why I got the idea. One of my coaches from last year had me do this on their bike while on side stand.

Link to original page on YouTube..

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Yakaru

The advantage to being on the bike leaned over (from my view) is feeling the weight being carried in the leg and the stretch through the hips.

Well you can get the bike leaned over more than the video you linked with straps, Just don't go too extreme with them.

[Yakaru]

Not entirely related but:

I was doing some checking on some BP videos from a few sources and this was near the top of the list. At first I was having some misgivings, something 'smelt' wrong... then he said something that made me completely face palm. See if you can catch what it was!

Link to original page on YouTube.

I don't want to bad mouth anyone but I feel so bad for the riders who are being taught this myth.

Oh, spoilers: body steering by weighting your pegs is the answer.

[Mechanikrazy]

Honestly, I would not recommend any of the the options I can think of. If you absolutely, absolutely needed to do this, I'd stack a large ton of thick sheets/mattresses at the front and rear to get the desired angle and just lay the bike over (fairings might not take it though).

The majority of the lock-in issue should be testable while vertical on stands by removing your arms from the bars and moving your upper body outboard.

This may go against what other's would teach, but if you also take your inside leg off the peg, you'll know if your lock-in is okay, as you'll only be left with your outside locked-in knee, outside foot on peg, and your butt on the seat as the only three connection points while your body is hanging off the other side. I would go this route on stands rather than try to mess with leaning the bike over.