Ecotrons Install Thread

[n4mwd]

The last time I had it hooked up I could move the throttle with the engine off and the TPS gauge would respond normally. Maybe check with Matt. It could be a bug in the new version.

[Felipe the Ant]

Also can anyone explain this?

[speedpro]

Someone has changed the ignition advance at 9480rpm for all loads from 41.2 to 39 degrees. It also "looks" like someone may have been smoothing things out across the other rpm ranges as well. I just checked the standard ignition map and yes, someone has pissed with the whole thing.

[n4mwd]

Adam, where did you get this cal file from? What version is it?

[choneofakind]

D, he got the whole setup from me. That's not ignition angle numbers I had programmed when I was using it. I used the ignition angle table that's currently attached to my mods blog (link in my signature).

I've PM'd Adam. Chill.

[n4mwd]

Ok, that raises a new question. How did it lose your configuration? Is it possible that it requires power to retain the cal file?

[Felipe the Ant]

I changed it, that's what the kit's for. But why does the graph not follow my values? It should be a flat line, slight dip, then slight downhill. I mimicked the brt-tis timing and added 10% fuel, feels nice. The bike also reacts similar to how the graph looks, there's a big dip/surge in the mid range and the top end runs out of steam

I feel like procal is messed up, my gauges still don't work. Everything on the bike is working how it should, all the inputs read/sweep correctly

[speedpro]

Of course it isn't as bad as it looks at first glance. The "Y" axis only goes from 38.5 - 41.5 so the variations are exaggerated. As the Ecotrons manuals all say though you shouldn't have spikes in any of the maps. In this case it isn't a spike but a ridge. Compared to the stock ignition map supplied, there is a lot of advance below 4000rpm. Is there a reason for that?

[choneofakind]

Honestly, ProCal has been glitchy for me in the past as well. Uninstall, download, and reinstall fixed that.

[Bigballsofpaint]

Bumping this ancient thread. Has anyone been using the new version 2? I was to know if they have fixed all the original issues and this is truely a bolt on deal now. Looks like they are starting a 250/300 class at a track near me and efi conversion is allowed, its something ive wanted to do anyway. Havent been seeing anything lately about this anymore

[lgk]

Got about 17000mi on my original version.
still runs great and starts easy in cold.

[choneofakind]

Ran great for me for 6000+ miles, including many trips 3+ hours from home and two track days. I went back to carbs because of how simple they were though. I was always nervous about breaking down, so I went back to OE parts for peace of mind. Great system once you get it set up.

My only input for track use: get the pump mounted fore/aft instead of side to side. At really high lean angles, a pump mounted sideways will have problems with the intake being mounted lower than the output. I ran into that on fast, long, left-hand sweepers with lots of lean angle. Mounting the pump fore/aft will remove that possibility.

[loganlexow]

Originally Posted by Bigballsofpaint

Bumping this ancient thread. Has anyone been using the new version 2? I was to know if they have fixed all the original issues and this is truely a bolt on deal now. Looks like they are starting a 250/300 class at a track near me and efi conversion is allowed, its something ive wanted to do anyway. Havent been seeing anything lately about this anymore

I haven't read through this thread in a long time, however, I can tell you the experience we have had on my wife's bike has been ok. The fuel line and clamps that come with the kit need to be changed out BEFORE installation. We found out the hard way. The MAP sensor needs to be AWAY from any sort of heat. Again, found out the hard way. We have had a fuel pump go bad already in the year that we've owned the kit. The fuel pump and the MAP sensor were both covered under warranty. The kit is supposed to be self tuning, yet the bike WOULD NOT run off of "eco" mode because it was too rich, and "eco" mode was too rich as well. We took the bike to Nels, a local respected tuner, and he had trouble getting the bike tuned. In fact, he ended up changing the parameters of the fuel table and left the bike in "eco" mode because it ran better there. He was really impressed with how well the O2 sensors reacted and adjusted the fuel trim.
In the end would we do it again? Yeah, if I knew what I was getting into lol.

[n4mwd]

Last I heard, he was on version 4. The latest version that I am aware of has a different fuel pump that now has only two fittings which are barbed. The electrical connector is now one piece. I have version 3 which is what I used to make the install video with. Minor mods to the install process are needed for gen 4 because of the new fuel pump.

I run all the time in eco mode and it hasn't been a problem most of the time. The biggest problem is that it constantly drains power from the battery so if it sits for a few months it will have a hard time starting. The setup uses more power at idle than the alternator can produce which can be a problem.

As far as running, it just ran well and I haven't really had to tinker with it that much in eco mode. I don't think it is superior in terms of performance, but there are definitely some advantages to EFI. For one, I can start it in 32F weather and it will start right up and idle at 1500 rpm. It also seems to drop the power curve a bit so there seems to be a bit more low end torque.

My install is exactly like in the video and I've had no problems with reliability.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Last I heard, he was on version 4. The latest version that I am aware of has a different fuel pump that now has only two fittings which are barbed. The electrical connector is now one piece. I have version 3 which is what I used to make the install video with. Minor mods to the install process are needed for gen 4 because of the new fuel pump.

I run all the time in eco mode and it hasn't been a problem most of the time. The biggest problem is that it constantly drains power from the battery so if it sits for a few months it will have a hard time starting. The setup uses more power at idle than the alternator can produce which can be a problem.

As far as running, it just ran well and I haven't really had to tinker with it that much in eco mode. I don't think it is superior in terms of performance, but there are definitely some advantages to EFI. For one, I can start it in 32F weather and it will start right up and idle at 1500 rpm. It also seems to drop the power curve a bit so there seems to be a bit more low end torque.

My install is exactly like in the video and I've had no problems with reliability.

Would it be possible to wire in a cutoff switch so the battery wouldn't drain when the bike is parked for while?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by agentbad

Would it be possible to wire in a cutoff switch so the battery wouldn't drain when the bike is parked for while?

probably just disconnect the battery. I'm not sure if the ECU will lose its programming if its disconnected for a long time.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ecotrons]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

probably just disconnect the battery. I'm not sure if the ECU will lose its programming if its disconnected for a long time.
Posted via Mobile Device

If you key off , and wait for 5s, then disconnect, ECU will not lose programming or any data.
ECU needs less than 5s to store the self-learnt data into "Non-Volatile-Memory".

Also the ECU should only draw 1mA ( 0.001A) from battery when the key is off. But if you leave the bike not running for months, it is still better to disconnect the battery.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ecotrons

If you key off , and wait for 5s, then disconnect, ECU will not lose programming or any data.
ECU needs less than 5s to store the self-learnt data into "Non-Volatile-Memory".

Also the ECU should only draw 1mA ( 0.0001A) from battery when the key is off. But if you leave the bike not running for months, it is still better to disconnect the battery.

What about reconnecting the power? Will it hurt anything to connect the NV RAM power at the same time as the "key on" power?

In my case, the bike doesn't have any problems as long as I ride it every few days or more.

One other related question:

Would a higher power stator be useful for EFI bikes...

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...chAutoComplete
(hopefully this link will work)

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

What about reconnecting the power? Will it hurt anything to connect the NV RAM power at the same time as the "key on" power?

In my case, the bike doesn't have any problems as long as I ride it every few days or more.

One other related question:

Would a higher power stator be useful for EFI bikes...

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...chAutoComplete
(hopefully this link will work)

I usually can start my bike weeks at a time with no issue and my bike is hella old. Might be your battery. Just couple days ago I started my bike up and was sitting in a storage container for two weeks or more. Like Matt said best to just disconnect the battery if your going to leave it sitting more than a month.

[ecotrons]

Reconnect to a battery to ECU has no effect to the ECU, if you do NOT have key on at the same time. The micro-processor is isolated from the 12V+ without Key-on.

If you accidentally have the key on when you re-connecting the 12V+; it is fine too, the worst thing is to lose some self-learning data if the battery is weak. ECU is protected by the TVS diode (transient voltage suppression).

Yes, a stronger stator is beneficial to EFI, especially for long idle. EFI draws max 3A current when it's running, which is in the range of stator power output.
But when the engine is in idle, the stator output is much lower than rated.
Hopefully most riders don't leave their bike idling too long. Short time idling like 5 minutes or less should not be a problem. the power drained during idle can be quickly regained in driving.

[n4mwd]

One other thing is that the headlight H4 bulb can be swapped for something that uses less power. They are starting to come out with LED headlight kits now that are plug compatible with the H4 bulb. They use about 16W in low beam and produce about 500 more lumens compared to the regular bulb that draws about 55W. That's a savings of over 3 amps right there and would make the EFI system a lot happier. I've never tried one, but they look promising.

But regarding reliability of the EFI bike, I can say for a fact that the EFI bike is far more tolerant of sitting for long periods than the carbed bike. I have two nearly identical Ninjas and the carbed bike clogs up and requires a carb cleaning to get it running again. The EFI bike only requires a battery charge. Right now, I wish I had another kit for the other bike, but can't afford it right now.

[agentbad]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

One other thing is that the headlight H4 bulb can be swapped for something that uses less power. They are starting to come out with LED headlight kits now that are plug compatible with the H4 bulb. They use about 16W in low beam and produce about 500 more lumens compared to the regular bulb that draws about 55W.

[n4mwd]

Well, they do have google you know. Here is the first one that popped up. Its actually a little more power draw at 40W, but still less than the regular bulbs. The advantage is that it has twice the light output as a regular bulb.

EBAY 3200 lm /40W

CREE LEDS 2000 lm / 27W

It looks like they require some sort of little controller to operate. I suspect that in the future they will be a lot cheaper and wont require a controller. I did see some 16W ones before, but I don't have time to find them on Google for you.

EDIT: HERE IS A GUY that installed the CREE ones on his Miata.

[agentbad]

I googled but I wasn't seeing a lot of one light hi/low beam solutions but lots that would work in the newgen. The Cree ones seem to fit the bill. They look pretty good in the Mazda.

http://www.hondashadow.net/forum/72-...ight-bulb.html

[Bigballsofpaint]

I know i bumped this sucker over a year ago, and now im bumping it again. Any new data for the ecotron guys? Considering purchising the kit soon.

[Kasatka]

I've got the Ecotrons EFI kit installed on my 99 Ninja 250. When I first got it installed, for half a dozen rides it started up and ran great. Then for 3 or 4 rides it started up and ran fine until it got warmed up, and then all of a sudden would bog down severely, whether under load or not, and then idle down and stall out. If I tried to open the throttle any, it would stall out nearly immediately. I thought it might have been bubbles from not tilting the fuel pump enough, so I gave it more tilt, and now it doesn't even need to be warm, just starts up, bogs down, stalls out.

I'm not sure what I'm dealing with here, and I need some suggestions. Anyone else run into this kind of issue? I drained the tank and put fresh fuel in, spark plugs are new. Does this sound like bubbles in the fuel lines? Fuel pump is in front of the airbox and doesn't seem to be getting too hot.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Kasatka

I've got the Ecotrons EFI kit installed on my 99 Ninja 250. When I first got it installed, for half a dozen rides it started up and ran great. Then for 3 or 4 rides it started up and ran fine until it got warmed up, and then all of a sudden would bog down severely, whether under load or not, and then idle down and stall out. If I tried to open the throttle any, it would stall out nearly immediately. I thought it might have been bubbles from not tilting the fuel pump enough, so I gave it more tilt, and now it doesn't even need to be warm, just starts up, bogs down, stalls out.

I'm not sure what I'm dealing with here, and I need some suggestions. Anyone else run into this kind of issue? I drained the tank and put fresh fuel in, spark plugs are new. Does this sound like bubbles in the fuel lines? Fuel pump is in front of the airbox and doesn't seem to be getting too hot.

You email ecotrons with ur troubles? Sounds like a fuel issue. When its running do you feel pressure in the lines? anything change recently before ur troubles with the bike?

[Kasatka]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

You email ecotrons with ur troubles? Sounds like a fuel issue. When its running do you feel pressure in the lines? anything change recently before ur troubles with the bike?

Just emailed them today, with Procal data. The lines have pressure on startup but I'll check while it stalls. The fuel filter is half full all the time.

The only thing that changed between when it ran well and when it started acting up was the weather... it was in the 30s when it worked, and it's been in the high 40s/50s since it's been crapping out.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by Kasatka

The only thing that changed between when it ran well and when it started acting up was the weather... it was in the 30s when it worked, and it's been in the high 40s/50s since it's been crapping out.

Idk the ecotrons system and from far away its not easy to analyze, but that sounds for me like your setup might be too rich.
Good luck finding the prob

[Kasatka]

Still doing it. I can't take the bike anywhere when it suddenly stops running at warmup. I didn't change anything before it stopped working, and it only cuts out under load so I can't record data while it's cutting out. There's always pressure in the lines. If it's running too rich, I have no idea how I would begin to put a stop to that.

Kind of pissed the kit worked for a few months then quit working, as now I can't even return it and get my money back. If I can't get it running it would be a high price to pay for a box of junk.

[EMSRacer07]

what did ecotrons say when u sent the data? and sounds like its been running rich.

[Kasatka]

Ecotrons asked for a recording from cold startup through it cutting out, but it doesn't cut out until it gets hot under load, and I can't hold a laptop while I ride.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Kasatka

Ecotrons asked for a recording from cold startup through it cutting out, but it doesn't cut out until it gets hot under load, and I can't hold a laptop while I ride.

If I were you. Go for a ride. warm it up till it starts cutting out. Take it to the side of the road or back home. Record it starting up. Open throttle to put it under load. See if that works. Or just let it idle till it warms up and just rev it and put it under a load


If its only while u drive I know they have a bluetooth reader that you can record while you ride

[choneofakind]

laptop. Back pack. bueno.

[agentbad]

I feel like a raspberry-pi would be perfect for this or even replace the ecotron ECU.

[swarfman64]

This thread looks active so I'll throw a question out there. Has anybody successfully downloaded and used either of the last two Procal versions?

I downloaded the first update and have display calibration issues and now the latest (very disappointed its a beta version, I expected a forward move with a stable sorted one) wont install. I've waited in excess of a month for a solution but support is poor.

[Kasatka]

Got a response from Ecotrons, but I'm having trouble understanding what they're saying.

"Yes, you recorded the data very clear, and the problem is very obvious.

First, before you switch the Per_SW to rich mode, so the engine cannot running in close-loop. So, when the after warm-up, the fuel is too rich, and the engine cannot stable idle. But now you switch the Per_SW to eco mode, the EFI kit can running close-loop, so the EFI kit can reduce the fuel, the engine can stable running.

Second, but the idle speed is 1800rpm. The desired idle speed is $1500rpm, so it is a bit high. It means more air inflow the combustion chamber, when the engine at idle. So you need adjust the idle screw to adjust the idle speed to 1500rpm. And the idle vibration will solve.

If the engine does not need running in power mode, recommend you switch the Per_SW to ECO mode."

Is he saying that he thinks the engine is dying because the switch is set to Rich mode and not ECO mode? That can't be right, because it dies under load whether the switch is in ECO mode or Rich mode. Anyone got another interpretation of his reply?

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Kasatka

Got a response from Ecotrons, but I'm having trouble understanding what they're saying.

"Yes, you recorded the data very clear, and the problem is very obvious.

First, before you switch the Per_SW to rich mode, so the engine cannot running in close-loop. So, when the after warm-up, the fuel is too rich, and the engine cannot stable idle. But now you switch the Per_SW to eco mode, the EFI kit can running close-loop, so the EFI kit can reduce the fuel, the engine can stable running.

Second, but the idle speed is 1800rpm. The desired idle speed is $1500rpm, so it is a bit high. It means more air inflow the combustion chamber, when the engine at idle. So you need adjust the idle screw to adjust the idle speed to 1500rpm. And the idle vibration will solve.

If the engine does not need running in power mode, recommend you switch the Per_SW to ECO mode."

Is he saying that he thinks the engine is dying because the switch is set to Rich mode and not ECO mode? That can't be right, because it dies under load whether the switch is in ECO mode or Rich mode. Anyone got another interpretation of his reply?

pretty much its running way too rich. take it off rich mode. Let it run in eco mode for a bit. At least in eco it will try to fix itself. If u keep it in rich mode and its running too rich to begin with ur going to wash ur cylinders. So just do what they say, the computer should lean it out. It takes time though.

[Kasatka]

I had been running it in ECO mode from the beginning. I only switched it to Rich mode briefly for two test rides, and that was after it started dying every time I took it out. It's now in ECO mode, and still dies under load. How can it correct itself and learn to run leaner if it won't stay running under load? Will it learn if I just let it idle in the garage? I didn't think that would be enough for the computer to learn anything.

Is there a way, other than disconnecting the computer from the battery, to reset its memory so it can start again from a blank slate?

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Kasatka

I had been running it in ECO mode from the beginning. I only switched it to Rich mode briefly for two test rides, and that was after it started dying every time I took it out. It's now in ECO mode, and still dies under load. How can it correct itself and learn to run leaner if it won't stay running under load? Will it learn if I just let it idle in the garage? I didn't think that would be enough for the computer to learn anything.

Is there a way, other than disconnecting the computer from the battery, to reset its memory so it can start again from a blank slate?

Maybe you do need a fresh start. You might want to ask them the process. But I think it was:

Key ON
Let fuel pump cycle
Unplug ECU at the Main harness
Count 5 seconds
Plug ECU
Key off.

I think thats how you wipe the data. And starts you fresh. Only reason I had to do this was bc of an issue I had. So possibly after you restart the map and run it in eco mode it might come back bc its trying to compensate for a lean run. What have you done to the bike mod wise? Could be a vac hose or something leaking. Just a thought

Try this out