won't start!!! Warning long post!!!

drstimpy · April 19th, 2010, 05:09 PM

you got to be kidding me!!!

after a 3 week project of reviving a new 04 with 200 miles that had been stored, everything was perfect yesterday. I have done the valves, changed the oil and coolant. put in springs and emulators. braided front lines. new demons. Hagaon rear shock. I found the perfect jet and needle height with meticulous up and down testing (112 and 3rd clip slot on needle) to match my pods and area p full system.

Finally, I went for the perfect ride yesterday. Jetting...perfect. braking...perfect. front and rear suspension...perfect. Idle speed...stable and perfect. Woo hoo I thought! An hour of great riding! when I got home I switched out the throttle tube for an R6 tube and that was super easy when I got the stupid bar ends off. No binding and a nice quick turn. I went to bed feeling pretty good about myself. Mistake!

So today I go to fire it up and it is cold so I put on full choke (as usual in the cold here...same as yesterday) and it cranks and cranks and cranks and cranks and not a hint of firing. So I figure I did the throttle tube last and maybe I messed up the kill switch so I test the switch and the bike stops cranking when I turn the kill switch off and resumes when I flip it on...no problem there. same with sidestand and clutch switches...all OK.

OK maybe fuel. I check all the vacuum lines and they are connected and the float bowls are full when I check the drains. I also smell a whiff of gas at the pipe. OK maybe flooded. Try choke off/throttle on cranking and not a hint of fire. give it a 2 hr rest and top off the battery which reads more than 12v when cranking (it's brand new too). Same thing after 2 hrs.

Now I'm really wondering so I pull a plug wire and test for spark on a plug outside the motor...perfect loud snap.

Now I really think I have lost my mind and I hope someone can tell me something stupidly easy that I forgot and I can thank you all and go back on my perfect ride.
Thanks in advance

kkim · April 19th, 2010, 06:35 PM

try hooking up a vacuum hose to the back of the fuel petcock and suck on the tube to get fuel to the carbs to make sure it's flowing. Take the fuel line off where it enters the carbs to insure you have fuel flowing from the tank to the carbs.

I've seen pregens have a difficult time starting when the vacuum from cranking is not enough to get the diaphragm in the petcock to work properly when priming from a cold start or when the carbs have just been worked on. By draining the bowls, you may have made the situation even worse regarding low fuel in the bowls if you have a diaphragm problem.

drstimpy · April 19th, 2010, 07:37 PM

will do thanks

drstimpy · April 19th, 2010, 07:59 PM

not a fuel issue. plenty of fuel in carbs and I smell it at the tailpipe. It is almost like it isn't getting spark but I checked both plug caps and they are generating a spark. The very first crank after it sat I heard 1 cylinder fire once and no sign of life after that. You can't foul plugs in a 4 stroke can you? could I have been running rich all day yesterday with no symptoms and then have messed up plugs today? I mean the bike pulled hard to redline yesterday with the 112 jets and surged in the midrange on the 110s with a softer top end.

Still a mystery but I guess I will look at plugs

drstimpy · April 19th, 2010, 08:23 PM

plugs are perfect...now what?
It's making spark. Could the spark not be HOT enough? If so, what do I do to check and fix?

kkim · April 19th, 2010, 10:46 PM

were you able to verify fuel flows out through the fuel line to the carbs?

Haider87 · April 20th, 2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drstimpy

plugs are perfect...now what?
It's making spark. Could the spark not be HOT enough? If so, what do I do to check and fix?

Low spark voltage is possible, but i dont think it's likely. There are easy ways to check this, though.

Make sure the fuel system is good first, under the assumption that your mechanicals are tip top.

EDIT: ok i just read the post where you said the fuel sys is ok, and you heard one cylinder fire. Does anyone think it's possible that you aren't getting compression in one cylinder? Do you have a compression tester lying around the garage? Or at least some airbox primer?

drstimpy · April 20th, 2010, 03:18 AM

fuel flowing freely through fuel line when vacuum applied to petcock. I don't have a compression tester but can probably rent one for a day. Easy enough to get some starter fluid today though.

drstimpy · April 20th, 2010, 08:31 AM

Posted via Mobile Device

drstimpy · April 20th, 2010, 08:33 AM

What about flooding? Is there a carb condition that would just cause continual overwhelming flooding?
Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

madcrossover · April 20th, 2010, 09:54 AM

could any fuses be causing a non-starting issue? or what about the starter? any filters not clogged? Just thinking out loud! Trying to see what it could possibly be. Have you checked your air filter?

drstimpy · April 20th, 2010, 10:55 AM

Air filter brand new k and n pods. Remember it ran perfectly 24 hours ago. Starter cranks well. What fuses would affect this if the starter lights and horn all work and I have spark? It is truly odd. Still wondering if something could be stuck that would cause instant flooding ??? Guess I will pull the carb and look at them but I don't know what to look for.
Posted via Mobile Device

kkim · April 20th, 2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drstimpy

What about flooding? Is there a carb condition that would just cause continual overwhelming flooding?
Thanks
Posted via Mobile Device

a stuck float would cause that.

I assume you did the drill for a flooded engine?
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_ca..._I_flood_it%3F

drstimpy · April 20th, 2010, 01:06 PM

Duh!
The quick turn R6 throttle spooled up too much cable and kept the throttle partially open so it would not start clean. see picture of throttle cables I attached. put old throttle tube on and all is well again. There unfortunatlely is not enough slack in the stock cables to adjust out the tension so I'm stuck with old throttle tube.

I didn't figure this out till I squirted some starter fluid at it and it sprang to life and revved to the moon.

Sorry, I can't believe I missed that...could swear I checked and tightened adjusters on throttle cables but must have missed it. Thanks for all the help though.

Haider87 · April 20th, 2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drstimpy

duh!
The quick turn r6 throttle spooled up too much cable and kept the throttle partially open so it would not start clean. See picture of throttle cables i attached. Put old throttle tube on and all is well again. There unfortunatlely is not enough slack in the stock cables to adjust out the tension so i'm stuck with old throttle tube.

I didn't figure this out till i squirted some starter fluid at it and it sprang to life and revved to the moon.

Sorry, i can't believe i missed that...could swear i checked and tightened adjusters on throttle cables but must have missed it. Thanks for all the help though.

awesome!! the closure, that is.

April 19th, 2010, 05:09 PM	#1
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	won't start!!! Warning long post!!! you got to be kidding me!!! after a 3 week project of reviving a new 04 with 200 miles that had been stored, everything was perfect yesterday. I have done the valves, changed the oil and coolant. put in springs and emulators. braided front lines. new demons. Hagaon rear shock. I found the perfect jet and needle height with meticulous up and down testing (112 and 3rd clip slot on needle) to match my pods and area p full system. Finally, I went for the perfect ride yesterday. Jetting...perfect. braking...perfect. front and rear suspension...perfect. Idle speed...stable and perfect. Woo hoo I thought! An hour of great riding! when I got home I switched out the throttle tube for an R6 tube and that was super easy when I got the stupid bar ends off. No binding and a nice quick turn. I went to bed feeling pretty good about myself. Mistake! So today I go to fire it up and it is cold so I put on full choke (as usual in the cold here...same as yesterday) and it cranks and cranks and cranks and cranks and not a hint of firing. So I figure I did the throttle tube last and maybe I messed up the kill switch so I test the switch and the bike stops cranking when I turn the kill switch off and resumes when I flip it on...no problem there. same with sidestand and clutch switches...all OK. OK maybe fuel. I check all the vacuum lines and they are connected and the float bowls are full when I check the drains. I also smell a whiff of gas at the pipe. OK maybe flooded. Try choke off/throttle on cranking and not a hint of fire. give it a 2 hr rest and top off the battery which reads more than 12v when cranking (it's brand new too). Same thing after 2 hrs. Now I'm really wondering so I pull a plug wire and test for spark on a plug outside the motor...perfect loud snap. Now I really think I have lost my mind and I hope someone can tell me something stupidly easy that I forgot and I can thank you all and go back on my perfect ride. Thanks in advance __________________________________________________ Some must watch while others must sleep

April 19th, 2010, 07:37 PM	#3
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	will do thanks __________________________________________________ Some must watch while others must sleep

April 19th, 2010, 07:59 PM	#4
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	not a fuel issue. plenty of fuel in carbs and I smell it at the tailpipe. It is almost like it isn't getting spark but I checked both plug caps and they are generating a spark. The very first crank after it sat I heard 1 cylinder fire once and no sign of life after that. You can't foul plugs in a 4 stroke can you? could I have been running rich all day yesterday with no symptoms and then have messed up plugs today? I mean the bike pulled hard to redline yesterday with the 112 jets and surged in the midrange on the 110s with a softer top end. Still a mystery but I guess I will look at plugs __________________________________________________ Some must watch while others must sleep

April 19th, 2010, 08:23 PM	#5
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	plugs are perfect...now what? It's making spark. Could the spark not be HOT enough? If so, what do I do to check and fix? __________________________________________________ Some must watch while others must sleep

April 20th, 2010, 03:18 AM	#8
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	fuel flowing freely through fuel line when vacuum applied to petcock. I don't have a compression tester but can probably rent one for a day. Easy enough to get some starter fluid today though. __________________________________________________ Some must watch while others must sleep

April 19th, 2010, 06:35 PM	#2
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	try hooking up a vacuum hose to the back of the fuel petcock and suck on the tube to get fuel to the carbs to make sure it's flowing. Take the fuel line off where it enters the carbs to insure you have fuel flowing from the tank to the carbs. I've seen pregens have a difficult time starting when the vacuum from cranking is not enough to get the diaphragm in the petcock to work properly when priming from a cold start or when the carbs have just been worked on. By draining the bowls, you may have made the situation even worse regarding low fuel in the bowls if you have a diaphragm problem.

April 19th, 2010, 10:46 PM	#6
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	were you able to verify fuel flows out through the fuel line to the carbs?

April 20th, 2010, 08:31 AM	#9
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	Posted via Mobile Device

April 20th, 2010, 08:33 AM	#10
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	What about flooding? Is there a carb condition that would just cause continual overwhelming flooding? Thanks Posted via Mobile Device

April 20th, 2010, 09:54 AM	#11
madcrossover ninjette.org member Name: Daniel Location: SW Texas Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 Posts: 87	could any fuses be causing a non-starting issue? or what about the starter? any filters not clogged? Just thinking out loud! Trying to see what it could possibly be. Have you checked your air filter? __________________________________________________ Puig Windscreen, Ebay Tire Hugger, Dynojet Kit, Woodcraft sub-frame sliders, K&N 0990 Air Filter, Fender Eliminator, Rear Solo Seat Cowl

April 20th, 2010, 10:55 AM	#12
drstimpy two wheels good Name: john Location: Wareham MA Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): 04 ex250 and 08 Triumph Sprint ST and custom calfee carbon race tandem Posts: 71	Air filter brand new k and n pods. Remember it ran perfectly 24 hours ago. Starter cranks well. What fuses would affect this if the starter lights and horn all work and I have spark? It is truly odd. Still wondering if something could be stuck that would cause instant flooding ??? Guess I will pull the carb and look at them but I don't know what to look for. Posted via Mobile Device

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