Occupy Wall Street

[sombo]

Not sure what news medias you've been watching (or ignoring) but there has been plenty of leftist bashing over the last 3 years. Major news sources like FOX (EXTREME rightists) have not only been bashing anyone and everyone on the left (or just not in their scheme of things), but going so far as to make up lies, take certain quotes 180 degrees out of context, and posting such hate stories that have actually gotten people forced out of offices when they were doing the job the people asked them to do. They have had to make more retractions and apologies for false reporting than other news sources. They have also been forced to remove certain speakers from their lineup because of the messages of hate they were spreading instead of actual news.

So don't think the media is one-sided. Just because you ignored it, or didn't accept it, doesn't mean the right-wing wasn't hard at work to destroy people's opinions of the other side.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Do you ever wonder about the bias where you get your news from or do you accept it as automatic truth? Do you ever wonder or stopped to consider the other side's message?




I know how Alex is frustrated. There's also the issue of what constitutes as objective evidence since that too can be biased to support positions, for example, the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission report.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by almost40

Hey Alex....care to jump back to the corprate tax discussion. I still have plenty of ammo to fire on that one. lol......... I digress

Sorry. Mike nailed it. I won't be involved in any political discussions on this site anymore, other than to step in when people are breaking the T.O.S. Calling someone who disagrees with you racist (as has already been done in this thread, but not by you) is mighty close to that line if anyone had reported it to me.

[almost40]

I understand Alex. And to be honest.... You do try to stay out of it in the first place. (for the most part.)
Sometimes we cant help it, and our own personal views get us dragged into it. As the mod here you have to be careful....as a member here I have a little more lattitude.
I was rather pleased with the civil discourse of our debate and knew before it even started, as Im sure you did, that I would not change your position.
I was just happy to have a grown up to debate with. As I figured you were.
You made your points...I made mine

Weather you realize it or not a lesson was being taught.

Grown ups debate like grown ups.

I believe it was not only usefull and necessary but informative in more ways than one. It should be touted as a model for the way a debate is to take place here on ninjette.

I want to thank you....and let you know, and all the others who are reading this that yes we do have a difference of opinion on politics, but I still consider Alex to be a thoughtful, considerate, articulate person and most importantly my friend.

[Apex]

Everyone in the current government is a bunch of tards. Apply seat limits and then see some change. The president is limited to 2-terms, why not the Senate and House?

Yeah, yeah, we can whine and gripe about what each administration has done and what they didn't do. Most people "think" they could do better, but could they? I doubt it. It takes a certain person to do what they do. I'm sure there are many more out there than who steps up.

I do think that by posting up term limits, they can wash out all the life-term senators, etc, and get more of a rotation in there. Then certain bodies would have a hard time padding wallets to get votes.

I do have to say, I'm not an Obama fan. I wasn't a big GW fan either. Each president has his issues, BUT my biggest issue is with people who are in the same party voting on things just because the president is in their same party. That doesn't mean it is a good idea. There is a thing called common sense, and very few politicians have it IMHO.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by almost40

I want to thank you....and let you know, and all the others who are reading this that yes we do have a difference of opinion on politics, but I still consider Alex to be a thoughtful, considerate, articulate person and most importantly my friend.

...only when he doesn't bring up his horrible political views.


Finished it for you.

LOL!!!! hahhahahah Oh come on, I couldn't resist.

[mrlmd]

I didn't intend to stir up a family feud here when I started this thread, it was more for informational purposes. to spread the word about what was going on, the reason for OWS. But as long as we've gotten this far, here's 2 more things to consider. (In 2 different messages/posts in this thread).

Warren Buffett's 5-Minute Plan to Fix the Deficit
Published: Thursday, 7 Jul 2011 | 11:21 AM ET



CNBC
Warren Buffett says he could fix the U.S. deficit problem very quickly.

Here's his not-entirely serious (but not entirely joking either) plan, as told to Becky Quick during this morning's live interview on CNBC:

"I could end the deficit in five minutes. You just pass a law that says that any time there's a deficit of more than three percent of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election. Yeah, yeah, now you've got the incentives in the right place, right? (Laughs)

So, it's capable of being done. And they're trying to use the incentive now that we're going to blow your brains out, America, in terms of your debt-worthiness over time. And that's being used as a threat. A more effective threat would be just to say, 'If you guys can't get it done, we'll get some other guys to get it done.'"

The only problem: the people who would have to pass such a law are the same people who would lose their jobs.

UPDATE: An attorney in St. Louis, Jarrad Holst, points out by email that there is a way to enact Buffett's idea without the cooperation of Congress. Under Article V of the U.S. Constitution, a "Convention for proposing Amendments" is convened when called for by the legislatures of two-thirds of the states. A proposed amendment would then need to be ratified by the legislatures of three-quarters of the states. If that happens, and it is a very, very big if, Buffett's deficit plan would become the law of the land. That process would, however, take more than five minutes.

[mrlmd]

From Robert Reich
(Robert Reich is Chancellor's Professor of Public Policy at the University of California at Berkeley. He has served in three national administrations, most recently as secretary of labor under President Bill Clinton. He has written thirteen books, including The Work of Nations, Locked in the Cabinet, Supercapitalism, and his most recent book, Aftershock. His "Marketplace" commentaries can be found on publicradio.com and iTunes. He is also Common Cause's board chairman.)

The Rise of the Regressive Right and the Reawakening of America

Sunday, October 16, 2011

A fundamental war has been waged in this nation since its founding, between progressive forces pushing us forward and regressive forces pulling us backward.

We are going to battle once again.

Progressives believe in openness, equal opportunity, and tolerance. Progressives assume we’re all in it together: We all benefit from public investments in schools and health care and infrastructure. And we all do better with strong safety nets, reasonable constraints on Wall Street and big business, and a truly progressive tax system. Progressives worry when the rich and privileged become powerful enough to undermine democracy.

Regressives take the opposite positions.

Eric Cantor, Paul Ryan, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann and the other tribunes of today’s Republican right aren’t really conservatives. Their goal isn’t to conserve what we have. It’s to take us backwards.

They’d like to return to the 1920s — before Social Security, unemployment insurance, labor laws, the minimum wage, Medicare and Medicaid, worker safety laws, the Environmental Protection Act, the Glass-Steagall Act, the Securities and Exchange Act, and the Voting Rights Act.

In the 1920s Wall Street was unfettered, the rich grew far richer and everyone else went deep into debt, and the nation closed its doors to immigrants.

Rather than conserve the economy, these regressives want to resurrect the classical economics of the 1920s — the view that economic downturns are best addressed by doing nothing until the “rot” is purged out of the system (as Andrew Mellon, Herbert Hoover’s Treasury Secretary, so decorously put it).

In truth, if they had their way we’d be back in the late nineteenth century — before the federal income tax, antitrust laws, the pure food and drug act, and the Federal Reserve. A time when robber barons — railroad, financial, and oil titans — ran the country. A time of wrenching squalor for the many and mind-numbing wealth for the few.

Listen carefully to today’s Republican right and you hear the same Social Darwinism Americans were fed more than a century ago to justify the brazen inequality of the Gilded Age: Survival of the fittest. Don’t help the poor or unemployed or anyone who’s fallen on bad times, they say, because this only encourages laziness. America will be strong only if we reward the rich and punish the needy.

The regressive right has slowly consolidated power over the last three decades as income and wealth have concentrated at the top. In the late 1970s the richest 1 percent of Americans received 9 percent of total income and held 18 percent of the nation’s wealth; by 2007, they had more than 23 percent of total income and 35 percent of America’s wealth. CEOs of the 1970s were paid 40 times the average worker’s wage; now CEOs receive 300 times the typical workers’ wage.

This concentration of income and wealth has generated the political heft to deregulate Wall Street and halve top tax rates. It has bankrolled the so-called Tea Party movement, and captured the House of Representatives and many state governments. Through a sequence of presidential appointments it has also overtaken the Supreme Court.

Scalia, Alito, Thomas, and Roberts (and, all too often, Kennedy) claim they’re conservative jurists. But they’re judicial activists bent on overturning seventy-five years of jurisprudence by resurrecting states’ rights, treating the 2nd Amendment as if America still relied on local militias, narrowing the Commerce Clause, and calling money speech and corporations people.

Yet the great arc of American history reveals an unmistakable pattern. Whenever privilege and power conspire to pull us backward, the nation eventually rallies and moves forward. Sometimes it takes an economic shock like the bursting of a giant speculative bubble; sometimes we just reach a tipping point where the frustrations of average Americans turn into action.

Look at the Progressive reforms between 1900 and 1916; the New Deal of the 1930s; the Civil Rights struggle of the 1950s and 1960s; the widening opportunities for women, minorities, people with disabilities, and gays; and the environmental reforms of the 1970s.

In each of these eras, regressive forces reignited the progressive ideals on which America is built. The result was fundamental reform.

Perhaps this is what’s beginning to happen again across America.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[almost40]

Theres always the Dick Morris take on whats going on in the OWS movement.

http://www.dickmorris.com/blog/prote...ama/#more-4637

that followed by this......coincidence???

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...de_598251.html

[shiroganeshinobi]

For those who truly think outside the box, this is a must read.

Great insight into the psychology on how one particular side thinks.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[CynicalC]

Extremely relevant:

[shiroganeshinobi]

Link to original page on YouTube.

Thank you Ratigan, for speaking your heart.

Actually this video was back in August but still relevant to the anger OWS has today.

For those who still dont understand the main point of OWS, please read.

[almost40]

Heres another of cynicals "common folk"


OCTOBER 19--A well-known “Occupy Wall Street” protester who was arrested last Friday for kneeling down in prayer and blocking traffic in lower Manhattan is wanted in Indiana for failing to appear in court in connection with criminal charges filed after cops found him naked, intoxicated, and covered in olive oil in a public park.

The bizarre nature of the charges against Michael Donte Booth, 27, were the subject of a previous TSG story after police discovered Booth sunbathing in the altogether in a Mishawaka park on May 24.

Cops found Booth laying face up on a blanket “with his entire genitals showing.” Nearby, officers found the book “Gay Power,” a “Kroger bottle of extra virgin olive oil,” two cans of Miller beer, and Marlboro cigarettes, according to an arrest

[CynicalC]

How is that even remotely relevant to ANYTHING? And since you're obviously too dense to remember, you coined them "common folk," not me.

Oh and "blocking traffic" huh? Why don't you tell me...

Link to original page on YouTube.

[sombo]

Wow Kevin, you have sunk to an even further low now. Do you work for Fox news perhaps? You seem to be following their normal tactics of stooping to any level no matter how irrelevant to the cause or subject at hand to try and discredit that which you choose to not understand or accept. It's posts like these that help to discredit you and your arguments on the grounds of stretching for anything to make yourself and your side of the argument look better.

I guarantee if you look deep enough you will find closets full of skeletons on all those on Wall Street. But would you even accept those skeletons? Or would you, like our government, ignore whatever those skeletons in the closets may be because of whose closets they are? Don't think that those in power on Wall Street are all innocent and perfect people. They have just been able to use their influence to keep their indiscretions from being found out by the public.

[kyrider]

After all the debates and all the spectrum covered I am putting my support behing Newt Gingrich.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by sombo

Wow Kevin, you have sunk to an even further low now. Do you work for Fox news perhaps?

If you must know, I currently am employed by the Red Cross.
When is the last time you gave blood?? (Please dont take that as a jab. Its just part of the job. An important part. I ask that of everyone when asked "Who do you work for?" or "What do you do?")

Originally Posted by sombo

You seem to be following their normal tactics of stooping to any level no matter how irrelevant to the cause or subject at hand to try and discredit that which you choose to not understand or accept. It's posts like these that help to discredit you and your arguments on the grounds of stretching for anything to make yourself and your side of the argument look better.

No matter which side of the political spectrum your on it could be argued that the above statement is no different than the below statement.

So its ok for your side, but not for mine?? Isnt that a little hypocritical??

I recall this incident during the Tea party movement. Which made headlines at CNN MSNBC NPR and yes even the FOX news network.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_507116.html

Now there was and still is a $100,000 reward for proof of the above link from the hiffington post.
It is, as of yet..... unclaimed. Why?? Because the accuastions were untrue.

http://bigjournalism.com/abreitbart/...lly-protected/

Then there is this zinger released to try to make it all seem a little more authentic.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-w...rhaul-cleaver/

Too bad Sgt. Kimberly Schneider of the Capitol police wouldnt lie for the congressman.

Originally Posted by sombo

I guarantee if you look deep enough you will find closets full of skeletons on all those on Wall Street. But would you even accept those skeletons? Or would you, like our government, ignore whatever those skeletons in the closets may be because of whose closets they are? Don't think that those in power on Wall Street are all innocent and perfect people. They have just been able to use their influence to keep their indiscretions from being found out by the public.

Granted.....but unless your Ghandi or mother Teresa, Ill bet your closet isnt empty either. I wont claim mine is.
So please be carefull....I wouldnt want you to fall off that high horse.

[almost40]

A nice piece about government spending by Ralph R. Reiland who is the B. Kenneth Simon professor of free enterprise and an associate professor of economics at Robert Morris University in Pittsburgh

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/1...-hidden-destru

[almost40]

Im not exactly sure what you see in that vid cynical. I see the police trying to move down the street on scooters and the crown making room to accomodate them. Then I see a guy who refuses to move out of the way. When he does not respond to the police when asked to move, he is arrested. Looks pretty cut and dry to me.

BTW. I knew that calling them "common folk" and then using your name would get a nice little rise out of ya. Dont you hate it when there is a troll screwing with you?
Ill be nice to you from here on out.

[sombo]

I'm not the one trying to act like they are on a high horse. You are the one trying to shoot holes in the movement using unrelated info of select individual's backgrounds that are not saint-like to make the movement seem less credible. You are the one who is acting like it's perfectly acceptable for Wall Street to have past indiscretions because it's Wall Street. But god forbid anyone involved in the movement against them be anything less than perfect or else their movement is worthless. You are the one that is making it seem that it's ok for your side to have hidden indiscretions but not the opposition. That's what your posts suggest. How about you take your own advice and come down off of your own high horse.

Oh and feel free to search through my closet. Apparently it's clean enough to maintain a top secret security clearance.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by almost40

A nice piece about government spending by Ralph R. Reiland who is the B. Kenneth Simon professor of free enterprise and an associate professor of economics at Robert Morris University in Pittsburgh

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/1...-hidden-destru

All I see is the same " government spending is ALWAYS wasteful and taxes hurt the job creators" rhetoric. Not at all surprising as the author is an advocate of "free enterprise". Did you stop to think that his message pretty much refuted the benefits of the Interstate highway system because you know it's government spending BY A REPUBLICAN nonetheless? HIGHLY IRONIC isnt it?

Then the article shifts to some bridge in Alaska. He mentions 50 people on the island and nothing else. How big is this island and what other value does this island have? Is it wasteful? Possibly, but I don't know because nothing more is reveal due to the writer's bias.

Ultimately, if you cut through the crap, the author tries to say the gains from creating employment is possibly insignificant to the money spent, which was lost through taxation etc by the owner, which could have been used for other investments such building a business(which could also be a bad business). It's a big what if question compared to the benefits of immediate investment. We already know the answer to this question because it's happening right now. Republicans are against spending, so it's up to the private sector to make jobs. Sooo wWHhhhheerrrreee areeeee theeee jerrrbbbbbss?

Link to original page on YouTube.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by sombo

Oh and feel free to search through my closet. Apparently it's clean enough to maintain a top secret security clearance.

And Im the one on the high horse??

Im not interested in looking in your closet. Thats between you and your choice of God.

BTW.. Mine is clean enough to survive an FBI backround check to allow me to haul explosives from coast to coast.
That dont mean squat.
At least I can admit I havent lived my life in a way thats worthy of sainthood.

I didnt say a word about it being "acceptable" I just wont be the one to cast stones while living in a glass house.

Interesting that theres not a peep in your previous post to acknowlege the bashing of the tea party on every major media outlet.

Dont get me wrong but I am just 1 guy here with a keyboard. Its not like Im this guy with a national TV program dishing it out over and over.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvsMF...7BCB26F0DB8BAC

Then theres this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyhP1pFO_8A

And dont forget the president himself joined in on the use of the "teabag" saying

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/0...eabaggers-now/

Get over it..... Im just entitled to bash the occupy wall street movement as anyone and everyone else who bashed the tea party movement was.
I dont recall crying about it on this forum back then. So..... man up a little.
Or would you rather I be silenced??

[almost40]

My side your side shiroganeshinobi. We could debate that topic until we are blue in the face......The both of us.

Just some interesting reading IMO

[almost40]

Originally Posted by sombo

Oh yes, it was getting painful watching him try in vain to educate the ignorant.

This is where I thought maybe you might be pearched atop a horse.

In our whole debate (Alex and I) he never once called me ignorant. Nor did I call him ignorant............. But you sure did now, didnt ya.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by almost40

My side your side shiroganeshinobi. We could debate that topic until we are blue in the face......The both of us.

Just some interesting reading IMO

Why is it that I look at your links, but out of the links I present, you maybe acknowledge maybe one. I seem to recall in the Ron Paul thread, you were wondering how to get consumers to spend again when I answered it. Where was the rebuttal? Point out in my comment what is amiss? Tell me what is wrong with my side. Use objective and non partisan sources if possible.

If you want to get back on the topic of government spending, here's something interesting on defense spending.

Here's are some dots, let's see if you can connect them.

GAO Finds Serious Conflicts at the Fed

Beltway Earnings Make U.S. Capital Richer Than Silicon Valley

For those who heard the arguments of pensions causing problems for business, here is some insight. Here's a video summary, scroll to like the 15 min mark

You can find faults with the OWS, all you want. So why haven't you commented on their demands or their purpose? I haven't seen much acknowledgement.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Here are two more dots, can you connect them?

U.S. Firms Build Up Record Cash Piles

Offshore Tax Break Is a Failed Tax Policy

Yeah, keep talking about making those jobs with a lower corporate tax rate.

----------------------------------------------------------
Forgot my OWS link!

Here is an interesting article regarding the NYPD and OWS

[sombo]

Originally Posted by almost40

I didnt say a word about it being "acceptable" I just wont be the one to cast stones while living in a glass house.

Interesting that theres not a peep in your previous post to acknowlege the bashing of the tea party on every major media outlet.

Wait, not gonna toss the first stone? Thats just what you have been doing, or are you just not paying attention to what you post? You started posting up irrelevent info bashing individuals involved in the movement in a rather pathetic attempt to discredit the movement as a whole. At the same time you have been acting like wall street is full of innocents. As for the tea party bashing not being mentioned. Wtf does that have to do with anything I have posted. I never once mentioned, dont care about them and dont know why you are bringing them up as some sort of argument against me. Again you are stretching for anything no matter how irrelevent it is to make yourself look better. So yes, you are on a high horse acting like you are better/smarter and saintlier than anyone else posting. That alone makes you look worse than anyone you have been trying to bring down with petty posts about past indescretions.

Since it is quite apparent that you will not listen to anyone other than yourself or even admit to your wrong doing in posts, it is a complete waste of anyones time to talk/listen to you.

"Just because I stopped arguing and walked away doesn't mean you won. It just means you are no longer worth wasting my time on." - unknown

[almost40]

All right shiroganeshinobi you have been pretty good at acting like an adult, using reasonable logic, and recalling correct data. I reckon Ill play along.

Lets start with this.

Hunting season starts sat and I will be spending alot more time in the field than I will at my desk here. So be advised that I wont be ignoring you, but the debate pace will be alot slower than before.

I will take part in the upcoming debate if its recognized that theres your side and my side and were not really trying to convince each other but the "masses"

I rather enjoy debating with Alex because in my minds eye, I figure he knew that he wasnt going to change my mind, just as I knew I wasnt going to change his. The debate itself, isnt or wasnt for that purpose. I was using it as a tool to promote my side and nothing more. Just as he was doing. (At least that was my perception of it.)

Lets not get personal about it and act like grown-ups and Ill play along. Its an interesting way for me to "kill" time as Im sure it will be for you.

So.... given you accept all of the above. Pick a single topic to start with and start a new thread. Call it anything you like as long as its not biased. (suggestions liberal vs conservative on the issue of the economy..... or whatever the topic or topics may be.)

Btw I have read most your links. I just figured you were trying to play the "inform the masses game" I didnt realize you were interested in picking up where Alex left off.
Go ahead and answer me here, and inform those who care to follow our debate where to look.
Lets the games begin.

[patw]

Originally Posted by mrlmd

Anybody know what is the best oil to put in my Ninja 250?

Shell Rotella T 15W40. I am the 1% using diesel engine oil.

#occupythecrankcase

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by almost40

I will take part in the upcoming debate if its recognized that theres your side and my side and were not really trying to convince each other but the "masses"

I rather enjoy debating with Alex because in my minds eye, I figure he knew that he wasnt going to change my mind, just as I knew I wasnt going to change his. The debate itself, isnt or wasnt for that purpose. I was using it as a tool to promote my side and nothing more. Just as he was doing. (At least that was my perception of it.)

Lets not get personal about it and act like grown-ups and Ill play along. Its an interesting way for me to "kill" time as Im sure it will be for you.

Btw I have read most your links. I just figured you were trying to play the "inform the masses game" I didnt realize you were interested in picking up where Alex left off.

I'm going to follow Alex's same path if you arent willing to alter your views when presented with the arguments. Refer to the picture about discussion, what's the point of a presenting views when only one side will make concessions. Both sides need to yield to the same rules, otherwise we get that crap in congress right now. Otherwise, we'll just have to agree to keep the thread to simple OWS links.

I told you before I once had similar views and I thought I was on the "correct side". I remember telling my friends about unions and taxes etc for a couple of months. I soon realized that I needed balanced views and so I wanted to know exactly the other side was saying.

This was my turning point because I realized I was under confirmation bias, I read up more and more for objective facts. I looked for the experts on fields of study who try to restrain political input and interpret the data as it stands by itself. This when I saw validity of Keynesian over Austrian economics. The predictions made by real economists like Krugman had the objective analysis to back them up. Unfortunately, these field experts tend to fall to the left because of the big picture.

Once you take the red pill though, you see big picture on why things are not working. It all becomes related and you can never see through the old view again. It's sad when even the Christian Science Monitor writes about the problem.

This is what OWS has been about, putting back a government that works for the majority of Americans. Why choose to find differences instead of common ground? We'll always disagree on other issues but you have to agree on the core message of OWS regarding a bought government. Choosing to ignore the issues presented is to take the blue pill.

[almost40]

Ok, I got it......... Your right and Im wrong. The millions that voted in the 2010 election that elected a republican majority were wrong, and pretty much anyone who doesnt see the light of Keynesian econmics is wrong.
That pretty much sum up where you stand?

I guess we wont be having a debate then.

As far as this goes

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

what's the point of a presenting views when only one side will make concessions.

Im pretty sure I was the only one making any kind concessions in the previous discussion.

At least thats the way I read it.
No problem at all.
Off to the field I go for a little recon this morning. Got know where them birds are so I can shoot at them in the morning.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Why are you turning this into a personal issue? It has never been about you versus me. It's been about the realization of problems in this country that is at stake here. Why is it impossible for you or anyone else who dont like OWS to humor us and OPEN YOUR MIND to the possibility that OWS protesters are right, what does that mean to you? It is more brave to challenge your current beliefs and put them to the tests to consider the possibility, you could be wrong than choose to not recognize the issues out of fear. I remember when I pulled to the other side my friends were like yeah, didnt you say the opposite before?

For example, if the corporate tax rate was lowered, yes there is a possibility of jobs being created as you said but there is another possibility that that money is used elsewhere which I had linked. My example showed that given a break, companies were more likely not to use it for jobs because they already have plenty of reserves. There is no guarantee that jobs will be created from that. The data shows more upward flow of wealth and will continue to support that.

Keynesian works, the data is there to prove it. The problem is we're in the "Dark age of macroeconomics". You have to understand, I'm not anti-republican. They did plenty of great things in the past but you have to look at the party right now. It is perversed from what it was. In your next reply I want you to comment on this article specifically and nothing else. Did you recall the link I had regarding Authoritarians? There is a link there doing an interesting comparison with the Tea Party. The Democratic party aint exactly a straight shot but it's the lesser of two evils.

If you really still believe in the Laffer curve, try reading this. Follow the objective analysis.

[alex.s]

i think this country's problem is not adopting things like robotics quickly enough. think about the price of labor for highly productive robots... we could "outsource" to robots and keep the production in the US for the same price as taking it to china. once production was under american control by robots it would open up more opportunity for higher skill jobs, which does means a requirement of better education, but once more money was staying in the US and taxed better more money could be spent on education for those high-skill jobs

[mrlmd]

Thank you patw. Now can anyone tell me the best tires to put on my Ninja 250?

I can't believe where this thread has gone and how almost violent it has become where people just can't see or admit to another point of view without getting so hostile and nasty and nuts about their own. Where some of you think that these protesters all across the nation, and now the world, are misguided and delusional? Like there was no reason for any of this? But the Tea Party was OK, that was justified? It's about time the main stream populace spoke up, and you are watching a revolution in the making, for the good of all of us. Or at least for 99% of us.

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i think this country's problem is not adopting things like robotics quickly enough. think about the price of labor for highly productive robots... we could "outsource" to robots and keep the production in the US for the same price as taking it to china. once production was under american control by robots it would open up more opportunity for higher skill jobs, which does means a requirement of better education, but once more money was staying in the US and taxed better more money could be spent on education for those high-skill jobs

Not exactly true. I work in manufacturing and I see it happening. Machines are doing more and more jobs that people used to do. If there's any machine in a factory that takes a person to operate, I guarantee they are trying to find a way to automate it. After that, only machine mechanics and electricians / engineers are needed for the most part.

There was a job I interviewed for in SF where the foreman told me up front that in a year or so they would be moving into the east bay and expanding for about 3x the production, but laying off about half the production people, and hiring more mechanics. Shows you just how much money automation saves them because a mechanic costs almost twice what the average production worker does.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Not exactly true. I work in manufacturing and I see it happening. Machines are doing more and more jobs that people used to do. If there's any machine in a factory that takes a person to operate, I guarantee they are trying to find a way to automate it. After that, only machine mechanics and electricians / engineers are needed for the most part.

There was a job I interviewed for in SF where the foreman told me up front that in a year or so they would be moving into the east bay and expanding for about 3x the production, but laying off about half the production people, and hiring more mechanics. Shows you just how much money automation saves them because a mechanic costs almost twice what the average production worker does.

i missed the part where you explained how what i said was not true. sounds like you agree with what im saying based on the rest of your post.

[CynicalC]

My mistake, I read that on the fly. I suppose I do agree with most of what you said. It doesn't directly create new jobs, but it opens doors.

[CynicalC]

GREAT image.

[almost40]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...965745362.html

Douglas Schoen, a veteran Democratic Party pollster who has also worked for Mayor Michael Bloomberg, sent a researcher from his polling firm down to Zuccotti Park last week to conduct what appears to be the very first professional survey of the protesters in New York. The face-to-face interviews with 198 people.