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Old July 3rd, 2011, 05:51 PM   #161
greatwhiteninja
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YEAR: 2011

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: air box removed.. uni pod filters

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: stock exhaust with modified stock can.

JET KIT OR STOCK? stock

BRAND OF JET KIT?

MAIN JET: keihn 110

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: shimmed with 3 washers

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: 3ish turns out

ELEVATION: sea level

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP:

intially started with the mixture screw settings around 2.5 turns out when i put evrything back together.. throttle was hanging a little with 2.5 turns so ended up backing it out almost 3 - 3 1/4 turns and it seemed to like that.. idle right about 1300. those screws are a pita to get too without the MOS.. had to run to home depot to get one.. made the job much easier trying to adjust them
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Old August 9th, 2011, 11:16 AM   #162
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Hi Guys,

I just finished my weekend project of installing a K&N R-0990 air filter and removing the Kleen Air system. The previous owner of the bike had already installed a full Yoshimura exhaust and re-jetted the bike to work with the stock airbox and snorkle.

Everything went really well overall, and the entire process was far less daunting than I had anticipated. In fact, I had the airbox out and the carbs fully re-jetted in just a few hours!

Here are my current settings which I started with based on someone with the exact same setup as me on the jetting database:

YEAR: 2009

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: Airbox Removed, K&N R-0990, Kleen Air removed.

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: Yoshimura Stainless Full Exhaust

JET KIT OR STOCK?: Jet Kit

BRAND OF JET KIT?: Factory Pro Stage 3 Jet Kit

MAIN JET: 110 (FP)

PILOT JET: 40 (FP)

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: 4th clip from top

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: 2 turns out for both

ELEVATION: 230 feet above sea level

I took the time to re-sync the carbs once I was all done, and I adjusted the idle to be about 1500RPM.

So the result? Well, it pulls very well from about 6000 to 13000 (noticeably better than it did with just the exhaust and the stock airbox), it's about the same from 4500 to 6000, but the bottom end below about 4500 is now significantly worse than it was before. To get the bike moving quickly off the line I really need to get the engine revs above 4500 and then slip the clutch, where before this wasn't a problem

I'm hoping someone here can give me a good place to start in terms of improving the bottom end response and power. If I put the bike in sixth gear and slow down to get the revs down to around 3000, I can pull the throttle wide open and the bike hardly responds at all. It just makes a funny gasping asthmatic sorta noise until it gets over about 4500, then the power starts to build and things go back to normal. Is that to be expected with the modifications I've done, or should I be looking to improve things?

Any help would really be appreciated! What's the best place to start?

Cheers,
Owen
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Old August 9th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #163
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Hi Guys,

I just finished my weekend project of installing a K&N R-0990 air filter and removing the Kleen Air system. The previous owner of the bike had already installed a full Yoshimura exhaust and re-jetted the bike to work with the stock airbox and snorkle.

Everything went really well overall, and the entire process was far less daunting than I had anticipated. In fact, I had the airbox out and the carbs fully re-jetted in just a few hours!

Here are my current settings which I started with based on someone with the exact same setup as me on the jetting database:

YEAR: 2009

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: Airbox Removed, K&N R-0990, Kleen Air removed.

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: Yoshimura Stainless Full Exhaust

JET KIT OR STOCK?: Jet Kit

BRAND OF JET KIT?: Factory Pro Stage 3 Jet Kit

MAIN JET: 110 (FP)

PILOT JET: 40 (FP)

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: 4th clip from top

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: 2 turns out for both

ELEVATION: 230 feet above sea level

I took the time to re-sync the carbs once I was all done, and I adjusted the idle to be about 1500RPM.

So the result? Well, it pulls very well from about 6000 to 13000 (noticeably better than it did with just the exhaust and the stock airbox), it's about the same from 4500 to 6000, but the bottom end below about 4500 is now significantly worse than it was before. To get the bike moving quickly off the line I really need to get the engine revs above 4500 and then slip the clutch, where before this wasn't a problem

I'm hoping someone here can give me a good place to start in terms of improving the bottom end response and power. If I put the bike in sixth gear and slow down to get the revs down to around 3000, I can pull the throttle wide open and the bike hardly responds at all. It just makes a funny gasping asthmatic sorta noise until it gets over about 4500, then the power starts to build and things go back to normal. Is that to be expected with the modifications I've done, or should I be looking to improve things?

Any help would really be appreciated! What's the best place to start?

Cheers,
Owen
Sounds like a pilot or idle mixture concern. I'd try going back to the stock pilots and see where that gets you. Have you read the FP installation sheet? It is very important that you follow the steps outlined in the instructions. They are also very easy to talk to if you need to call them.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 05:33 PM   #164
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With regards to Kawi using a different sized needle for each carb and the different settings for each air mixture screw that results....does anyone know the reasoning behind this? I have exhausted all seach options. It seems to me that symmetry should be the name of the game when it somes to carbs..but I am obviously mistaken.
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Old September 12th, 2011, 07:10 PM   #165
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bump
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 02:59 PM   #166
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So I'm gonna rejet my bike tomorrow (hopefully). I was wondering if I'm able to just buy individual jets from a moto shop? Also, what else would I need to do a complete rejet without buying a whole kit? FYI I have a DanMoto SO and a K&N 0990 on the bike right now. Also, elevation is ~800ft.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 03:44 PM   #167
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yes thats what i did... jetsrus.com, as for doing a complete jet kit without a actual jet kit, its basically the main jets, and shimming the needles. i actually got my washers from radio shack. i believe the part # you need is somewhere in the DIY.. but beetween the washers to shim and the jets from jets r us.. it cost like $15. you can also drill the slides but thats not really necessary. and im at sealevel, i run 110 mains and 3 washers on each needle.. thats with full exhaust and uni pod filters.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 03:54 PM   #168
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Most people I've seen run 112 when the have the airbox removed… what should I try first?
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 04:05 PM   #169
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ive herd a min of 108 with no airbox.. i actually tried 105's first, and it was way to lean.. couldnt rev past 7k. so i jumped to 110's and it pretty much seemed right on for me, except on extreme hot summer days like 100+ or really humid it would break up just a little at like 11-12k.. now with the cooler weather here ( 60-70's ) it runs real good so i may try bumping it to 112's next year for the hot summer. but overall 110's did pretty good in my situation.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 04:14 PM   #170
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Awesome thanks man. So are jets universal, or are there Ninja 250 specific jets I need to look for?
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 04:18 PM   #171
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no, go on that site and you pick your specific make and model and it takes you to the correct jets needed. there are 2 different types.. no name brand which are like $2 ea, or keihn jets and they are like $6 ea, ive only bought the keihn but im sure the off brand are of too. also im sure your local dealer has individual jets also and they will make sure you get the correct ones.
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Old October 3rd, 2011, 04:37 PM   #172
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Thanks for the quick replies! I'm gonna call the dealer tomorrow and see if they have them, if not I'll just get them from that site. Can't wait to get back on the road!
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Old October 9th, 2011, 08:52 PM   #173
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don't skimp out on "no name" brand main jets. i did that mistake and it was a total fail. this is like the heart of your bike, it is the piece that allows for the perfect flow of fuel to mix into the air... its like trying to save $8 on a heart transplant... not worth it! rofl~
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Old December 15th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #174
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On the factory Pro needles do you have to use the washers and the clips? I was thinking that the clips acted as washers.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #175
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On the factory Pro needles do you have to use the washers and the clips? I was thinking that the clips acted as washers.
Clips yes...washers not really but I do.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #176
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Ok thanks because after reading some posts on here I was starting to think I had it all wrong since the begining haha.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #177
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On the factory Pro needles do you have to use the washers and the clips? I was thinking that the clips acted as washers.
The clips do in fact do the spacing for you but FP recommends in their instructions to add your bottom clip, fill with washers and then add the top clip.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 12:07 PM   #178
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The clips do in fact do the spacing for you but FP recommends in their instructions to add your bottom clip, fill with washers and then add the top clip.
So if I wanted to put the needle in the 3rd postion I would put the bottom clip in the 2nd postions, then washer in 3rd, and top clip on 4th postion?
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Old December 15th, 2011, 12:26 PM   #179
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Here this should help.

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Old December 15th, 2011, 12:28 PM   #180
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Thanks! That helps a lot!
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Old December 15th, 2011, 12:30 PM   #181
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Cool. Happy tuning!!!
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 05:39 PM   #182
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Need some ideas or suggestions

01/15/2012 - Well I have been doing some mods on this little toy.

YEAR: 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R

INTAKE MODIFICATIONS: Air box delete with K&N 0990 Dual Pods straight on carbs and a cheap crankcase breather.

EXHAUST MODIFICATIONS: PLM Exhaust

JET KIT OR STOCK? Stock

BRAND OF JET KIT? Keihn

MAIN JET: 105

PILOT JET: Stock 38

NEEDLE AND CLIP POSITION: Stock needles with 3 washers.

MIXTURE SCREW SETTINGS: L - 3 turns out. R - 2 3/4 turns out

ELEVATION: 5300'

MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR BIKE’S JETTING SETUP: The DA today was 5900'. Temps of 46'. I also drilled the slides with #70 drill bit as I want the best throttle response I could get as I road race and blip the throttle on downshifts. I did not sync the carbs yet but the bike idles well at 1500rpms and doesn't seem to drop after blipping the throttle. The bike starts right up but does need the choke at first. It also revs pretty clean in neutral with no load but seems to hit a little lag at around 8-10k but then revs again hard to redline. It's maybe a little lean but since most of the track days and race days the weather will be 70-95' so I think it will be fine. I still need to go for a ride to get a better feel and look at what is going on. The spark plugs are stock and are originals. Right now it revs way better than it did when it was bone stock. It the meanwhile I will get some new spark plugs, change the oil and sync the carbs.

Edit: 01/23/2012 - The weather finally cleared up enough to go for a ride and check the jetting. I changed the spark plugs and sync'd the carbs. In the driveway the bikes revs well through out the RPM spectrum and at WOT. Maybe a very very very tiny bit hesistant in the 5-8k range but almost not noticeable. Went for the ride and the temps were about 48' with no wind. When cruising around with less than half throttle the bike runs well and throttle response is excellent but when I start to go to WOT it revs fine from 2k up to 6k then it stumbles till around 8k then it revs fine all the way to redline just fine. Not sure if it is lean or fat. I am thinking lean as when I did all the mods before jetting, I was using stock 98 main jets and the bike would barely even rev and never really revved past 5-6k in nuetral butr when I let off the gas a little the bike would rev past that and up towards redline. I would believe that the Pilot circuit is working fine.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 05:46 PM   #183
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Quote:
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Edit: 01/23/2012 - The weather finally cleared up enough to go for a ride and check the jetting. I changed the spark plugs and sync'd the carbs. In the driveway the bikes revs well through out the RPM spectrum and at WOT. Maybe a very very very tiny bit hesistant in the 5-8k range but almost not noticeable. Went for the ride and the temps were about 48' with no wind. When cruising around with less than half throttle the bike runs well and throttle response is excellent but when I start to go to WOT it revs fine from 2k up to 6k then it stumbles till around 8k then it revs fine all the way to redline just fine. Not sure if it is lean or fat.
if that spot got better when the temps went down, that means it was rich. Try taking a washer off the needles when it's hot out. That's also right where the needles/main jet interact. You might want to try playing around with other main jet/needle combinations. Have you tried other mains? Like is that 105 the hardest pulling jet you tried?
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 06:04 PM   #184
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the washers are like a 1/2 clip adjustment. for instance. if you are on the 3rd clip and put one washer under then it is like being at 3 1/2 clip...next move is to go to 4th slot...

also the meat of the jet kit are the needles. Not sure if you have priced needles individually but you cans spend $20-$30 on them. $3-$5 per jet...if you jet based on daily conditions you end up cheaper than individual. if you are a jet once and call it a day person(probably most non-racers) then you are set without the kit.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 06:40 PM   #185
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Jetting Question?
Thinking about taking my bike to a racing shop to have the jet kit installed & dynoed. Living in Illinois where it's below freezing most of the winter and 90's in the summer. Will it make a big difference in the bike this summer if I have this done in the winter? Would it be better to have it done this spring when it stays above 50. I don't ride under 50 degrees. Thanks
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 06:54 PM   #186
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if that spot got better when the temps went down, that means it was rich. Try taking a washer off the needles when it's hot out. That's also right where the needles/main jet interact. You might want to try playing around with other main jet/needle combinations. Have you tried other mains? Like is that 105 the hardest pulling jet you tried?
I figure the temps out today play a part on how it is reacting. I'll be racing in 60' to 90' temps. So I am trying to get it right for both extremes. I think it is still lean IMHO but when it warms up I'll see. I will need to buy more jets to see if it is still lean but if I am in WOT at any RPM, do the needles really still play a factor in my issue?
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 07:13 PM   #187
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the washers are like a 1/2 clip adjustment. for instance. if you are on the 3rd clip and put one washer under then it is like being at 3 1/2 clip...next move is to go to 4th slot...

also the meat of the jet kit are the needles. Not sure if you have priced needles individually but you cans spend $20-$30 on them. $3-$5 per jet...if you jet based on daily conditions you end up cheaper than individual. if you are a jet once and call it a day person(probably most non-racers) then you are set without the kit.
I have read where the Factory Pro needles are substanially different than the stock ones and will be richer.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 07:40 PM   #188
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the needles control how much fuel gets to the engine in the mid-range and partial throttle openings (1/2-3/4 throttle) as they move out, the main jet is "opened" more, and more fuel gets to the engine. Shimming them out with washers (what you did) effectively sets the needles out by that little extra bit throughout the entire range that the needles are in effect. Does that make sense?

The FP/DJ needles are both a different taper/shape and provide a different rate of change of fuel flow in the mid range as the throttle openings change. They can be raised or lowered based on the position of some adjustable e-clips. This raising and lowering has the same effect as raising or lowering the oem needles with washers; further out = richer, lower = leaner. So the needles themselves aren't richer across the spectrum because they're adjustable. They do have a different fuel delivery with changing throttle though.

yes buy some other sizes of jets. 108's and 110's and 112's. Many people with your setup are running 105's or 108's, so you're close, and it's worth it to test some other sizes jetting database for reference. get a variety of jets, test them all out, and get the size that works best. then worry about the needles. jetting is not a process of just buying some parts and slapping them on the bike. It takes some trial and error and patience.

you're not going to get carb settings that work the same at 90+ degrees F as they do at 50 ish degrees F. you're likely going to have to jet at somewhere in the middle and live with it, or get a few settings and change as the temp changes. I would suggest just finding a happy medium and living with it unless you're going for absolute perfection for racing.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 07:46 PM   #189
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the needles control how much fuel gets to the engine in the mid-range and partial throttle openings (1/2-3/4 throttle) as they move out, the main jet is "opened" more, and more fuel gets to the engine. Shimming them out with washers (what you did) effectively sets the needles out by that little extra bit throughout the entire range that the needles are in effect. Does that make sense?

The FP/DJ needles are both a different taper/shape and provide a different rate of change of fuel flow in the mid range as the throttle openings change. They can be raised or lowered based on the position of some adjustable e-clips. This raising and lowering has the same effect as raising or lowering the oem needles with washers; further out = richer, lower = leaner. So the needles themselves aren't richer across the spectrum because they're adjustable. They do have a different fuel delivery with changing throttle though.

yes buy some other sizes of jets. 108's and 110's and 112's. Many people with your setup aren't running 105's jetting database for reference. get a variety of jets, test them all out, and get the size that works best. then worry about the needles. jetting is not a process of just buying some parts and slapping them on the bike. It takes some trial and error and patience.

you're not going to get carb settings that work the same at 90+ degrees F as they do at 50 ish degrees F. you're likely going to have to jet at somewhere in the middle and live with it, or get a few settings and change as the temp changes. I would suggest just finding a happy medium and living with it unless you're going for absolute perfection for racing.
I know how the needles work but since I was WOT already, I figured the Mainjet was pretty much already in full use and not relying on the needle as in the 1/2 to 3/4 throttle openings they are obviously being used.

Since I am up here at mile high, I picked the 105s based on what the Sea Level guys were upping their jets from stock to modded. I will get the next step up but I am pretty sure that will be all I need. Similar mile high guys were running less than me but assuming they don't really know what they were doing so I chose the 105s.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 07:57 PM   #190
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Well 6k-8k is midrange. I personally would play with how many washers are on the needles if you feel that the main jet pulls satisfactorily. And you're right, I neglected to look at your altitude. If the 105 pulls well, keep it

Factory pro tuning guidelines say to test the needle height by starting < 3k and doing a WOT roll on, which means WOT and mid-range RPM's are still influenced by the needles.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 08:00 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by kevheads View Post
90's in the summer. I don't ride under 50 degrees. Thanks
Jet it when it's about 70 out. That's a happy medium.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 08:03 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by jasle View Post
Not sure if you have priced needles individually but you cans spend $20-$30 on them
I have yet to find factory pro/dyno jet needles for sale on their own for 20-30 dollars or else I would already have a pair

I know you can get individual needles from jetrus, but that involves a lot of little measurements and comparisons, when it's easy and cheap to get a few washers and shim the needles I already have
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 08:09 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Well 6k-8k is midrange. I personally would play with how many washers are on the needles if you feel that the main jet pulls satisfactorily. And you're right, I neglected to look at your altitude. If the 105 pulls well, keep it

Factory pro tuning guidelines say to test the needle height by starting < 3k and doing a WOT roll on, which means WOT and mid-range RPM's are still influenced by the needles.
Yea I thought about adding that one more washer based on a few other members who said that it helped. I'll do it tomorrow and see how it fares.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 08:11 PM   #194
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Try taking one off too. Like I said, if it was better at a lower air temp, and it's hesitating instead of surging, it's likely rich.
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 08:28 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Jet it when it's about 70 out. That's a happy medium.
I agree. I think I am pretty close on the mainjet. I will shim the needles with 1 more washer and I am sure it will be pretty close.

I plan on keeping the revs high as much as possible when racing........depends on how big my balls get.......
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Old January 23rd, 2012, 09:27 PM   #196
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They have a good sweet spot up high from 9k on up
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Old January 25th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #197
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I had a chance to add a fourth washer to the needles. Didn't help and seemed a little better but when I got past the midrange point the topend seemed worse as well. I'll try removing 2 washers and see what happens.

After that I think I might go one more main jet bigger and see how that fares. Got order them now.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 09:24 AM   #198
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My guess is going down to 2 washers with your current main will get the midrange where it should be, and if the main pulled hard before, that might be it. Try a size bigger just as a point of reference on the mains if the bike doesn't feel right with your current main jet and 2 washers
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Old January 26th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #199
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I'll get on it a little tonight but probably won't get a test ride till tomorrow. My business has been busy.....good thing there as I like to spend money.
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Old January 26th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #200
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haha yeah. College kid here. I know what it feels like to be spending money on a bike and thinking, "huh, that's 8 more hours I need to work over break"
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