DIY Shimming the carb needles. - Page 5

Sound Wave · March 23rd, 2009, 12:35 AM

whenever i did this mod, the carb end hoses were not touched. i was able to get the cover off without really disturbing them. the cover was lifted up slightly so as not to damage the spring, then the cover was slid out under those hoses.

the only hoses that we removed were the 3 on the gas tank end.

Buffalony · March 23rd, 2009, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

No, I meant either a 3 or 4 mm washer, but I see I was mistaken. I would recommend using a 3mm, if you can find it. if not, someone measured a #4 washer and I do believe you are correct that a #4 washer will work, too.

yes, a #4 will work...
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Washers_for_carb_needles

Not to make things more complicated here but I remember reading somewhere that there was a problem with different washer thickness. Any recommendations?

watcanido · March 23rd, 2009, 12:57 AM

I went out today trying to look for 3mm flat washers around my area but with no luck. I searched on ebay and I found some. http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-Dubro-Flat-Wa...3286.m20.l1116<-- is this the right size? I just want to make sure.

kkim · March 23rd, 2009, 12:59 AM

no, not really. Even if the washers are of a bit different thicknesses, each bike is a bit different, so there is no set formula that will work in every case. You make your changes, see how it affects the bike and either add/subtract washers or leave as is.

It's close enough to get you started... you just need to fine tune from there.

Buffalony · March 23rd, 2009, 02:16 AM

And is it that actual jet kits can tune even finer? Or is this a different part of the spectrum?

kkim · March 23rd, 2009, 02:05 PM

different part of the spectrum, though they all sort of overlap. main way to affect/tune the midrange, though, is through the needles.

g21-30 · March 23rd, 2009, 02:26 PM

See this thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10246

Posts 12-13

g21-30 · March 23rd, 2009, 02:45 PM

Here is another link which describes "how to tune" your carbs for better performance:

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tec...ion/index.html

A follow on article:

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tec...ems/index.html

Moo-wasaki · March 24th, 2009, 11:31 AM

Anyone have the replacement screw size for these SOB's??

birdy · March 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM

I'm going to shim my needles this weekend. With all the mention of how tight the carb cover screws are, how tight do they need to be retightened to? Is snug good enough so it's not a PITA to remove them a second time if needed?
The factory really seems to overtighten things. I almost needed a breaker bar to get the oil drain plug and filter cover off the first time. I torqued them to spec when done and it wasn't near wheat the factory did.

paterick4o8 · March 24th, 2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdy

I'm going to shim my needles this weekend. With all the mention of how tight the carb cover screws are, how tight do they need to be retightened to? Is snug good enough so it's not a PITA to remove them a second time if needed?

I retightened mine to be snug.. especially the black ones as these seem to be the easiest to strip. The way I see it is, it's either do that, or go buy some better quality replacement screws that won't strip as easy

Visus · March 24th, 2009, 12:53 PM

To solve my problems with weak power in the low end after shimming, Sound Wave suggested to increase the idle speed (I was running at around 900-1,000 after the shimming). We boosted it to about 1,400 and it's better now.

kkim · March 24th, 2009, 12:59 PM

So, Todd... is the bike easier to ride now than before you did the mod?

kkim · March 24th, 2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paterick4o8

... or go buy some better quality replacement screws that won't strip as easy

some have replaced the screws with allen head screws to make it easier to remove in the future. if you've stripped the stock butter head screws, that seems the best alternative.

Sound Wave · March 24th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdy

I'm going to shim my needles this weekend. With all the mention of how tight the carb cover screws are, how tight do they need to be retightened to? Is snug good enough so it's not a PITA to remove them a second time if needed?

it is not that they are tight. it is just that they aren't actually phillips screws. they are JIS screws. if you have a JIS screw bit, it comes out REALLY easily.

but yeah, if you don't have one of those and you do manage to get them off, it is better to switch them out for an allen or something.

Visus · March 24th, 2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

So, Todd... is the bike easier to ride now than before you did the mod?

Yes, it's not as jerky in the low gears / going slow.

Not crazy about the exhaust note, but I can live with it.

kkim · March 24th, 2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visus

Not crazy about the exhaust note, but I can live with it.

you mean because of the snorkel removal? if so, put it back in.

Sound Wave · March 24th, 2009, 03:39 PM

yeah visus, sorry for not catching the idle thing the first time when you came over for the mod. i forgot.

if you don't like the exhaust sound, i can help you stick the snorkel back in. you can also try out my k&n filter to see if you like the sound it gives before you decide to get one or not.

Visus · March 24th, 2009, 04:00 PM

or I could get a new exhaust!

Thanks for the offer, Gary. I'll think about what I want to do.

kkim · March 24th, 2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visus

or I could get a new exhaust!

area P, area P, area P, area P, area P...

birdy · March 25th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Soundwave, tnx for the heads up on the JIS screws. I haven't taken the gas tank off yet, would a 6" screwdriver be long enough to reach the screws? I found a 6" or 12" #2 JIS screwdriver for $7.50 on the web. I'd rather spend the money than have to fart around with a stripped screw head because the screwdriver cammed out of the head. Definately looking forward to getting this done. This is the most cold blooded bike I've ever owned. Once it's warmed up good no problem, otherwise forget it. I hate to see what it's going to be like next winter. I ride year round regardless of the temp

Tnx again for your help---Ted

g21-30 · March 25th, 2009, 03:52 PM

Two of the screws will need an offset type of screwdriver to remove them without damage. I have the JIS screwdriver set and I still had to use the offset driver with a #2 phillips bit and lots of pressure. I didn't damage any of the screws.

kkim · March 25th, 2009, 03:56 PM

The 12" JIS screwdriver should work.

I've been using a 12" #2 phillips and can access all of the carb top screws using it.... no offset needed. I would highly recommend getting the 12" JIS screwdriver if you would like to prevent future headaches.

Lurkable · March 25th, 2009, 04:35 PM

Today I got up early to wash my bike, shim the needles, and remove that funny rubber snorkel. I used four of those #4 washers from Radioshack's assorted pack on each needle (they are very thin) so it adjusted the needle about as much as in the picture Kelly posted. I just got everything back together and went for a test ride and I'm really happy with the results.

It used to feel starved for gas especially up at 10-12k but everything feels much smoother now and there is less hesitation. The bike also is beginning to sound like it wants to get something done.

kkim · March 25th, 2009, 04:59 PM

ahhh.... another satisfied customer.

guess I better get back to the factory and make more washers.

Moo-wasaki · March 25th, 2009, 06:51 PM

Wish it would have worked for me. I'm one of the few that it did not work for. But, I normally do not need to use my choke....except here in march.

Tempted to jet it and get an Area P... just can't justify the price right now. Taking the mrs. to Vegas next month...if I hit a big score I will farkle it out like a mutha.

kkim · March 25th, 2009, 07:05 PM

yeah... I remember that.

Moo-wasaki · March 25th, 2009, 07:14 PM

Yeah, I appreciated your help and remember it was late at night when I came in from the garage. Figured you would be online for advice given the time difference.

But then again when are you not online??? Must be logging on from your phone too, I bet.

kkim · March 25th, 2009, 07:18 PM

lol... you would think so, but I hardly even use my cell phone for phone calls.

just sit in front of a computer all day and I've got the marks to prove it.

Sound Wave · March 25th, 2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdy

Soundwave, tnx for the heads up on the JIS screws. I haven't taken the gas tank off yet, would a 6" screwdriver be long enough to reach the screws? I found a 6" or 12" #2 JIS screwdriver for $7.50 on the web.

well, what i bought was the JIS screw bits and i used it in my offset driver. it can reach workspaces tighter than a shorty can get to. a couple screws would have been hard to get to otherwise imo. apparently a 12" screwdriver would have worked too. i don't have one that long, so i don't know.

that offset driver is cool. i have used it so many times for different projects. mine can even be attached to a power drill.

as with all things, having the proper tools makes any job much easier.

edit:

here is where i got mine from. i got the 3 bit short set.
http://rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_de...m?subcat_ID=89

kawi_cj · March 26th, 2009, 09:20 PM

Should the washers be metel,stainless or aluminum or does this
even matter ?

kkim · March 26th, 2009, 09:21 PM

doesn't really matter.

kawi_cj · March 26th, 2009, 09:30 PM

k thanks

g21-30 · March 27th, 2009, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sound Wave

well, what i bought was the JIS screw bits and i used it in my offset driver. it can reach workspaces tighter than a shorty can get to. a couple screws would have been hard to get to otherwise imo. apparently a 12" screwdriver would have worked too. i don't have one that long, so i don't know.

that offset driver is cool. i have used it so many times for different projects. mine can even be attached to a power drill.

as with all things, having the proper tools makes any job much easier.

edit:

here is where i got mine from. i got the 3 bit short set.
http://rjrcooltools.com/shop_item_de...m?subcat_ID=89

Another happy customer! Get this, I originally posted that site and I still haven't ordered my set! Go figure! But my bike is running great with the factory 98 main jets and the dynojet needles set on slot #3 with the snorkel removed!

hieuster · April 5th, 2009, 12:31 AM

I'm planning on doing this mod tomorrow morning. Just installed my yoshi slip on yesterday and it's making cracking/popping sound around 7k when the throttle is released from 9k. How would I know if the bike is too lean or rich after the shimming? Also, I don't know if I should remove the snorkel and shim at the same time or remove the snorkel after seeing how the shimming affects my bike. I'm planning on using two washers for each.

kkim · April 5th, 2009, 12:35 AM

remove the snorkel at the same time you shim. start with 2 washers and if you feel you need more low end, add another later.

If the washers don't take care of the popping on decel, you may want to remove the kleen system. It got rid of my low end popping and has never returned.

hieuster · April 5th, 2009, 12:40 AM

Wow that was a fast response. Thanks!

Sound Wave · April 5th, 2009, 12:40 AM

danny, it is my understanding that popping on decel is caused by a lean condition. so yeah, since you only have the slip-on, hopefully the shimming will take care of your problem.

paterick4o8 · April 5th, 2009, 12:52 AM

another tip, take it around the block for a test spin w/o the side fairings on. If you feel you need to add another washer, it'll save you some time.

hieuster · April 5th, 2009, 02:10 PM

Wow, what a difference it makes! Throttle response is much quicker than before. No hesitation from stop at all. I love it.

I have not ridden on the freeway yet in order to notice if the popping sounds on decel still exists. Power was smooth from idle through near redline (I only went up to 11k). Overall, it was a pretty easy DIY for me. I would say it took me about an hour and a half to do all this, shimming and snorkel removal. Glad I bought the 12'' JIS screwdriver that made removing the screws with ease. Next mod next weekend would be to chop off my rear fender.. can't wait!

Thank you Kelly for posting this DIY. I greatly appreciated it!

March 23rd, 2009, 02:16 AM	#165
Buffalony ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Joe Location: Buffalo NY Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 "Wasabi", 82 Yamaha xj650j Posts: A lot.	And is it that actual jet kits can tune even finer? Or is this a different part of the spectrum? __________________________________________________

March 23rd, 2009, 02:45 PM	#168
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	Here is another link which describes "how to tune" your carbs for better performance: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tec...ion/index.html A follow on article: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tec...ems/index.html Last futzed with by g21-30; March 25th, 2009 at 04:18 AM.

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March 23rd, 2009, 12:35 AM	#161
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	whenever i did this mod, the carb end hoses were not touched. i was able to get the cover off without really disturbing them. the cover was lifted up slightly so as not to damage the spring, then the cover was slid out under those hoses. the only hoses that we removed were the 3 on the gas tank end.

March 23rd, 2009, 12:57 AM	#163
watcanido ninjette.org member Name: Jhaqui Location: Earth Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 83	I went out today trying to look for 3mm flat washers around my area but with no luck. I searched on ebay and I found some. http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-Dubro-Flat-Wa...3286.m20.l1116<-- is this the right size? I just want to make sure.

March 23rd, 2009, 12:59 AM	#164
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	no, not really. Even if the washers are of a bit different thicknesses, each bike is a bit different, so there is no set formula that will work in every case. You make your changes, see how it affects the bike and either add/subtract washers or leave as is. It's close enough to get you started... you just need to fine tune from there.

March 23rd, 2009, 02:05 PM	#166
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	different part of the spectrum, though they all sort of overlap. main way to affect/tune the midrange, though, is through the needles.

March 23rd, 2009, 02:26 PM	#167
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	See this thread: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10246 Posts 12-13

March 24th, 2009, 11:31 AM	#169
Moo-wasaki ninjette.org member Name: Yes Location: Webster Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 46	Anyone have the replacement screw size for these SOB's??

March 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM	#170
birdy ninjette.org member Name: Ted Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 Green Ninja 250R Posts: 23	I'm going to shim my needles this weekend. With all the mention of how tight the carb cover screws are, how tight do they need to be retightened to? Is snug good enough so it's not a PITA to remove them a second time if needed? The factory really seems to overtighten things. I almost needed a breaker bar to get the oil drain plug and filter cover off the first time. I torqued them to spec when done and it wasn't near wheat the factory did.

March 24th, 2009, 12:53 PM	#172
Visus ninjette.org member Name: Todd Location: Hawaii Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 57	To solve my problems with weak power in the low end after shimming, Sound Wave suggested to increase the idle speed (I was running at around 900-1,000 after the shimming). We boosted it to about 1,400 and it's better now.

March 24th, 2009, 12:59 PM	#173
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	So, Todd... is the bike easier to ride now than before you did the mod?

March 24th, 2009, 03:39 PM	#178
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	yeah visus, sorry for not catching the idle thing the first time when you came over for the mod. i forgot. if you don't like the exhaust sound, i can help you stick the snorkel back in. you can also try out my k&n filter to see if you like the sound it gives before you decide to get one or not.

March 24th, 2009, 04:00 PM	#179
Visus ninjette.org member Name: Todd Location: Hawaii Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250r Posts: 57	or I could get a new exhaust! Thanks for the offer, Gary. I'll think about what I want to do.

March 25th, 2009, 03:46 PM	#181
birdy ninjette.org member Name: Ted Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 Green Ninja 250R Posts: 23	Soundwave, tnx for the heads up on the JIS screws. I haven't taken the gas tank off yet, would a 6" screwdriver be long enough to reach the screws? I found a 6" or 12" #2 JIS screwdriver for $7.50 on the web. I'd rather spend the money than have to fart around with a stripped screw head because the screwdriver cammed out of the head. Definately looking forward to getting this done. This is the most cold blooded bike I've ever owned. Once it's warmed up good no problem, otherwise forget it. I hate to see what it's going to be like next winter. I ride year round regardless of the temp Tnx again for your help---Ted

March 25th, 2009, 03:52 PM	#182
g21-30 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sam Location: Northern Virginia Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 2009 Posts: A lot.	Two of the screws will need an offset type of screwdriver to remove them without damage. I have the JIS screwdriver set and I still had to use the offset driver with a #2 phillips bit and lots of pressure. I didn't damage any of the screws.

March 25th, 2009, 03:56 PM	#183
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	The 12" JIS screwdriver should work. I've been using a 12" #2 phillips and can access all of the carb top screws using it.... no offset needed. I would highly recommend getting the 12" JIS screwdriver if you would like to prevent future headaches.

March 25th, 2009, 04:35 PM	#184
Lurkable 250Arrrgh! Name: Andrew Location: San Francisco Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250R, 2001 996 Posts: 143	Today I got up early to wash my bike, shim the needles, and remove that funny rubber snorkel. I used four of those #4 washers from Radioshack's assorted pack on each needle (they are very thin) so it adjusted the needle about as much as in the picture Kelly posted. I just got everything back together and went for a test ride and I'm really happy with the results. It used to feel starved for gas especially up at 10-12k but everything feels much smoother now and there is less hesitation. The bike also is beginning to sound like it wants to get something done.

March 25th, 2009, 04:59 PM	#185
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	ahhh.... another satisfied customer. guess I better get back to the factory and make more washers.

March 25th, 2009, 06:51 PM	#186
Moo-wasaki ninjette.org member Name: Yes Location: Webster Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 46	Wish it would have worked for me. I'm one of the few that it did not work for. But, I normally do not need to use my choke....except here in march. Tempted to jet it and get an Area P... just can't justify the price right now. Taking the mrs. to Vegas next month...if I hit a big score I will farkle it out like a mutha.

March 25th, 2009, 07:05 PM	#187
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	yeah... I remember that.

March 25th, 2009, 07:14 PM	#188
Moo-wasaki ninjette.org member Name: Yes Location: Webster Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: 46	Yeah, I appreciated your help and remember it was late at night when I came in from the garage. Figured you would be online for advice given the time difference. But then again when are you not online??? Must be logging on from your phone too, I bet.

March 25th, 2009, 07:18 PM	#189
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	lol... you would think so, but I hardly even use my cell phone for phone calls. just sit in front of a computer all day and I've got the marks to prove it.

March 26th, 2009, 09:20 PM	#191
kawi_cj ninjette.org member Name: jason & char Location: mississauga Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 kawi 250r Posts: 46	Should the washers be metel,stainless or aluminum or does this even matter ?

March 26th, 2009, 09:21 PM	#192
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	doesn't really matter.

March 26th, 2009, 09:30 PM	#193
kawi_cj ninjette.org member Name: jason & char Location: mississauga Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 kawi 250r Posts: 46	k thanks

April 5th, 2009, 12:31 AM	#195
hieuster ninjette.org member Name: Danny Location: Houston, TX Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 42	I'm planning on doing this mod tomorrow morning. Just installed my yoshi slip on yesterday and it's making cracking/popping sound around 7k when the throttle is released from 9k. How would I know if the bike is too lean or rich after the shimming? Also, I don't know if I should remove the snorkel and shim at the same time or remove the snorkel after seeing how the shimming affects my bike. I'm planning on using two washers for each.

April 5th, 2009, 12:35 AM	#196
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	remove the snorkel at the same time you shim. start with 2 washers and if you feel you need more low end, add another later. If the washers don't take care of the popping on decel, you may want to remove the kleen system. It got rid of my low end popping and has never returned.

April 5th, 2009, 12:40 AM	#197
hieuster ninjette.org member Name: Danny Location: Houston, TX Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 42	Wow that was a fast response. Thanks!

April 5th, 2009, 12:40 AM	#198
Sound Wave Ramen Rider Name: Gary Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2015 BMW R1200R, 08 Honda VFR800A (sold), 09 Ninja 250R (sold) Posts: A lot.	danny, it is my understanding that popping on decel is caused by a lean condition. so yeah, since you only have the slip-on, hopefully the shimming will take care of your problem.

April 5th, 2009, 12:52 AM	#199
paterick4o8 ninjette.org sage Name: patricK Location: San Jose, CA--BAY AREA! Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 blue 250R [sold]. '09 lime ZX-6R [stolen :( ]. '06 blue 636. Posts: 918	another tip, take it around the block for a test spin w/o the side fairings on. If you feel you need to add another washer, it'll save you some time.

April 5th, 2009, 02:10 PM	#200
hieuster ninjette.org member Name: Danny Location: Houston, TX Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250r Posts: 42	Wow, what a difference it makes! Throttle response is much quicker than before. No hesitation from stop at all. I love it. I have not ridden on the freeway yet in order to notice if the popping sounds on decel still exists. Power was smooth from idle through near redline (I only went up to 11k). Overall, it was a pretty easy DIY for me. I would say it took me about an hour and a half to do all this, shimming and snorkel removal. Glad I bought the 12'' JIS screwdriver that made removing the screws with ease. Next mod next weekend would be to chop off my rear fender.. can't wait! Thank you Kelly for posting this DIY. I greatly appreciated it!