First Synthetic Oil Change

[ScorpionNinja]

Originally Posted by kkim

essentially the same. I believe the newer is an updated product of the other. I remember PMs that islanderman and myself had about the differences and from what I could tell from the Shell website, the new oil is acceptable to use in our bikes, though not all of the specs are the same, as you mentioned.

yea, i figured it was just a 'newer container design' from the Blue type container you used (in your oil change DIK) but maybe it depends on the area you live in, as to what the store accually Sells, between the 2 Rotella T Syn's

the autoparts guy at the walmart i bought my 5w40 from, said that, that is the Only one he knows of. When i asked him, if theres a 'Fully Synthetic' and a 'Synthetic' of the 5w40. He said no, the One right here the "Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 w/ API CJ-4" is a Full Synthetic!

when i looked on shells website... the links of the 2 5w40's you can see the API differences... but i was just concerned if 1 of the 2 5w40s would HURT the Ninja 250R

[headshrink]

Just wondering after how many miles will shifting no longer feel like cutting butter?

In my experience with dino oil, this feeling last ~800 miles. Hopefully it is much longer with synthetic.

[Cali619]

clutchless upshifing is much nicer with full synthetics and can wait twice as long to change the oil than with conventional.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Cali619

clutchless upshifing is much nicer with full synthetics and can wait twice as long to change the oil than with conventional.

I wouldn't and I wouldn't.

[Banzai]

Originally Posted by kkim

I wouldn't and I wouldn't.

BIG +1 on both points there.

[00v_Lucky]

Originally Posted by kkim

I wouldn't and I wouldn't.

are your oil change intervals the same?

[kkim]

I'm going to be using 3k as my change intervals. If I were doing a lot of miles, I would consider 5K.

[Banzai]

When switching to synthetic oil, doubling oil change intervals applied to car engines, and only with premium synthetic products, and only in advertising hype of the early days of synth when dino recommendations went from 5K to 3K. Then, the early synth was supposed to be good for 6K+, but at the time it was almost 3-5X the price of a quart of typical mid grade dino oil. Even today, it's generally still at leat 2-3X the price of dino, making the advantages of synth out of financial reach or reason for the average user.

This is part of what I posted in another thread on oil viscosity choice:

Lets take a typical 10w30 oil. Multi grade oil has a tremendous amount of additives and chemical manipulation that causes the base oil, in our example a 10 weight, to swell when heated. It has to be thin enough to NOT cause as much parasitic drag on the engine under high load start up, but has to be thick enough to provide lubrication and protection to critical engine parts. As the oil gets to operating temp, the molecules swell and thicken, until it will test as viscous as straight 30 weight oil, providing maximum engine protection. It's those chemical modifiers/molecules that cause the oil to 'swell' that break down and burn off first, followed at a slower rate by the base oil.

There is TONS of research and independant info that shows that dino oils typically loose half their viscosity in car engines about 1800-2000 miles. It's a testiment to the modern materials that the engines continue to run well under those conditions. Usually, by 3000 miles, testing shows that dino oils are at about 1/3 their 'new' rated viscosity, as well as hyper contaminated with the products of combustion and break down.

Thus, a typical mid grade (that most of us use) Havoline/Penzoil/Quaker State/Mobil 1/insert brand name here 10w30 oil, after 2K miles will test something like a 5w15, and by 3K is so contaminated and broken down it tests in the neighborhood of a 3w10. That's why an engine burns oil the more it's used, and why it's normal to have a lower volume of used oil than when you put it in new!

Research in the late 80's and early 90's discovered this, which is PART of why pre mid-90s engines had a life expectancy of only 100K miles and why oil change intervals WERE 5000 miles but are now 3000 miles for they typical auto.

Better oveall oil additive packages to prevent break down, increase heat tolerance, materials science, and advances in machine tools now let us make a better engine than ever before, but recommended oil change intervals haven't gone back up (some manufacturers recommend higher intervals in their owners manuals, but they also specify HIGHER GRADE oils with that increase!!!). Of course, there are some exceptions!

One would be the motorcycle, especially one that shared engine oil with it's gearbox and clutch.

Still wanna stick to that oil change interval as recommended?

And the final answer for best protection, as recommended by so many independant researchers, is chaning the oil NOT LATER THAN every 3K miles (for dino). They're a bit more disjointed on their recommendations on synth, but I've never seen it recommended to go as long as the synth manufacturers recommend, and never more than 5K, and NEVER the hype of 'double the oil change interval' that was so prevalent in early sales literature for synth oils.

Bottom line, though, is that changing the oil more often, but within reason, is the best protection.

[Nemy]

Originally Posted by Banzai

Bottom line, though, is that changing the oil more often, but within reason, is the best protection.

Nice write up Banzai! Didn't know about the viscosity break down - now it all makes sense!

[Cali619]

Originally Posted by kkim

I wouldn't and I wouldn't.

Dont clutchless upshift very often, mainly do it when splitting a lane at a red light and need to get in front of traffic asap(cagers here haul ass). Change oil between 4-5k intervals. But Im sure everyone rides different in different conditions.

[Rayme]

I'm currently using amsoil synthetic in my bike, I thought it was running fine at first until I tried my buddies 2008 with only 1400 KM on his...his bike was much smoother... now Im not sure if its because his is practicaly new or because he is using normal oil.. mmh..

[stealth250]

When I was trying to decide which oil to use, I considered Valvoline Racing 20w50 since it had been my choice in drag engines for years. After talking to the tech guy at Valvoline, he told me that you need to make sure the oil you are using does not contain moly, as it will adhere to the clutch and cause it to slip. With a wet clutch setup, you must use motorcycle specific oil to prevent damage to the clutch. Most automotive engine oils contain moly as an anti-wear agent. Make sure the oil you are using doesn't contain moly (molybdenum disulfide). I've used Valvoline 20W50 4 stroke motorcycle oil since the first change and have had no issues.

[headshrink]

I assume the Rotella that is so popular around here does not have moly?

[NaughtyusMaximus]

I assume not. Rotella is popular on every motorcycling forum I've been to. Everyone loves the stuff, many swear by it, and evangelize it.

I haven't tried it yet.

[BlueRaven]

When is it safe to switch to synthetic? I was planning to do it at 1,000kms (600 miles).

[kkim]

I switched at 1000 miles. many wait at least a few thousand.

I'd recommend you get through the break in period first, which is 1000 miles.

[BlueRaven]

Did my first oil change today and everything went well thanks to kelly's DIY. I will check in a couple of days to make sure there is no leaks, overtorque the filter bolt a little with my ratchet when it didn't click with the torque wrench i loostened it and tightened again until it finally clicked. I will wait for 1,600kms to switch to synthetic

[NaughtyusMaximus]

I changed to synthetic this weekend at 2500km. Amsoil 10w40. Honestly I don't think I can tell the difference between now and before. I would have changed to synthetic regardless, but I'm a little disappointed that there wasn't a 'wow' factor when I changed

[Snake]

Performance wise there is no difference. The difference comes from longer engine life due to better protection. IMHO.

[NaughtyusMaximus]

Right, but lots of people have said that shifting has improved

[Snake]

Yes I have noticed that shifting is smoother. You will probably have to wait till the next oil change to notice this due to the fact that you still have a little bit of conventional oil left when you change to synthetic. You can't completely drain every drop of the old oil.

[cbowman78]

My Kawasaki dealer is advising me to run mineral oil all the way to 9,000 to 10,000 kms (5,600 to 6,200 miles). Isn't that a little long to be doing so?

I currently have 1,900 kms (1,200 miles) on my bike and am getting prepared for its hibernation. Would it be a good time to convert the bike to synthetic, or should I continue with mineral oil?

[kkim]

I switched at 1000 miles and have had no problems. As long as you are comfortable that your engine is fully broken in, making a switch now would be okay.

[want1sobad]

this is a good place to start reading, many other oil threads as well:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ght=oil+change

welcome to the forum!

[rockNroll]

You can run synthetic at 0 miles. Your dealer needs some education.

[bob706]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

You can run synthetic at 0 miles. Your dealer needs some education.

+1.

Make the switch - you will love it

[Cab305]

Would you just do a regular oil change, replace filter and pour in synthetic?

Or are there any other steps to changing to syn?

[scotty]

just make sure all the old oil is out.

[TenaciousD]

Originally Posted by scotty

just make sure all the old oil is out.

There's no problem with synthetic and non-synthetic mixing, so there's no need to do anything special other than just drain the old oil.

I switched at 300 miles.

[Samer]

I've mentioned before my opinion about when you should switch to synthetic so this time, I'll let Arnold decide.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by cbowman78

My Kawasaki dealer is advising me to run mineral oil all the way to 9,000 to 10,000 kms (5,600 to 6,200 miles). Isn't that a little long to be doing so?

I currently have 1,900 kms (1,200 miles) on my bike and am getting prepared for its hibernation. Would it be a good time to convert the bike to synthetic, or should I continue with mineral oil?

With a hard break-in, like running at a track for two full days, you can change it right then and there. Since that isn't the case, 1500 miles is the usual recommendation, from the people at the track anyway.

[coondog]

Originally Posted by N.M.smallponiesbigsmiles

what does any one know about synthetic oils for are ninjetes ???

Depends on the climate you live/ride in. I got an 05 250 in the mid atlantic states and ran a semi-synthetic, still do as it's a short trip bike for me. I now have a 500 ninja in the tropics and run redline only, which is a certain type of synthetic, and I can ride the piss out it in the highest heat and she still purrs.

[Jaysep]

Just bought two liters of motorex synthetic oil. It is 15 w50. Oil color is green. Anyone used this oil? What is your experience with it? Been using motul, but it seems like my bike runs a bit hot. Just changed it last week so i want to maximize it before switching to the motorex oil i bought.

[kkim]

is 50wt called for to use in your bike? what are the temps where you live? the manual calls for 10-40wt oil for most of us here.

[Jaysep]

Could get up to more than 100 at times. Farenheight. That's under the sun... On a traffic jam at that.

[DaBlue1]

I've been using 50w for 2 years and have never looked back.
Green oil? That is interesting. My 2 cycle oil is green.

[Jaysep]

Yeah. It's green. Verified that it's 4t after reading your post.

[kkim]

if you see +100*F temps, then yes, a 50wt oil is recommended. if not, I wouldn't use it.

[robski11500]

Read the articles recommended about oil, but still have some questions. I use Mobil 1 in my car and was wondering which full synthetic is best for the Ninja 250? And is there a certain amount of mileage I should have on my bike before I switch from conventional to synthetic? (I've got about 7800 miles on my bike)

[almost40]

You can switch no problems. I run Mobil1 4T racing synthetic. Motorcycle oil of course.