Turbo250.com - My Turbo Build Blog

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by garth285

1200-1500rpm's

Its very odd, anywhere I try to pull fuel in the entire IAP or RPM map from 0rpm to 2500rpm it does not lean out the idle. I'm getting 10.5-11.0 : 1 at idle lol......

The funky thing is, if I unplug the IAP sensor it goes to about 14.5:1

I am thinking there may be a cold start map that is messing me up.

I don't know about the american version ECU but the european does have a cold start map...have you tuned the subperssure of the throttle bodies ? This could also be complicating idle tuning...
can't wait to see how it performs !! great job so far Shawn !!

[garth285]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

I don't know about the american version ECU but the european does have a cold start map...have you tuned the subperssure of the throttle bodies ? This could also be complicating idle tuning...
can't wait to see how it performs !! great job so far Shawn !!

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I think it must have a cold start map and thats throwing me off. No matter what I do to the maps it does not change the my air fuel..... Maybe woolich can update the map but I doubt it. I just posted on their FB to see if they have any info. Their forums are kinda dead and no one messes with the ninja 300 to much.

as far as the subpressure are you talking about when the bike has vacuum? if so then yes, the IAP map from from 0% to I think close to 70kPa

I pulled fuel from every single cell from 600rpm to 2500rpm and the bike still wont lean out at idle....

on top of all of this the ECU maps also have a MS0, MS1, and MS2 map switches and no one can kinda confirm which map is default but I really think the MS0 is default..... I hope lol.

[garth285]

Dyno time will be tomorrow :-)

Will have videos and pics up ASAP.

Going to finish up some things tonight as far as the boost controller goes and go from there. I really just have to hook up the oil lines going to the pump, a small relay to activate the pump when engine is running and the pressure lines going from the turbo to the boost controller solenoid to the wastegate.



Who wants to play the guess the hp game? lol

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by garth285

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I think it must have a cold start map and thats throwing me off. No matter what I do to the maps it does not change the my air fuel..... Maybe woolich can update the map but I doubt it. I just posted on their FB to see if they have any info. Their forums are kinda dead and no one messes with the ninja 300 to much.

as far as the subpressure are you talking about when the bike has vacuum? if so then yes, the IAP map from from 0% to I think close to 70kPa

I pulled fuel from every single cell from 600rpm to 2500rpm and the bike still wont lean out at idle....

on top of all of this the ECU maps also have a MS0, MS1, and MS2 map switches and no one can kinda confirm which map is default but I really think the MS0 is default..... I hope lol.

that is one of the main reasons I prefered sticking with the 250's ECU and electrics... much less complex at least...
I will let you know if I find sth out but few have data around here, let alone share...
well it is not that bad being rich at idle, keeps engine cooler and maybe safer, unless it makes it choke...
anyway, as far as guessing rwhp...
it is mentioned clearly...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM7H0ooV_o8



any guessing on my project's rwhp ??

[Somchai]

It's nice to see how this project is moving forward and from what I guess it will not end like all the other turbo-projects or the "250R NA Build".
@garth285 about the IAP-Questions I think it would be a good idea to talk to 'RidgeRacer'.

[garth285]

Thanks, I may have figured out what I needed to do, I'll be able to dial in the ECU a lil more tomorrow.

I rode the bike tonight to try to see what max boost is and it is 7psi. I hooked up the oil lines for the scavenger pump and ran the bike, I am still getting a slight amount of oil coming out of the compressor so I am thinking my original oil drain might be sufficient, I may have just damaged the oil seal on the compressor slightly to push threw but on the exhaust side I am getting no smoke so no oil coming out there.

I think I have my WOT tuning very close though, now that the tuning is a little better the turbo is actually spooling around 6,000 rpm so thats good.


DYNO TOMORROW!

[mgentz]

Originally Posted by Somchai

It's nice to see how this project is moving forward and from what I guess it will not end like all the other turbo-projects or the "250R NA Build".
@garth285 about the IAP-Questions I think it would be a good idea to talk to 'RidgeRacer'.

@garth285 this build is awesome. Good work!

@Somchai since I am the originator of the 250 NA Build thread, I take offense to the comment, whether or not it is warranted. After spending countless hours, and over $10,000 on the bike I simply needed to take a break for a little while. Here's why: NEW JOB, NEW HOUSE, WENT BACK TO SCHOOL, FAMILY. Working 60 hours per week and going to school at night does not lend itself to posting on this forum. However, if you must know, I fully intend to finish the thread and post my results. I have been riding the bike and tuning it with the help of a A/F gauge to reign it in. I believe that I am 99% of the way and that I can take it to the dyno in spring with good results. Yes, it will wait until MAY or so due to weather, so I hope you can wait.

@Racer x the invitation still stands for you to come ride it and help me tune it.

[Somchai]

...Here's why: NEW JOB, NEW HOUSE, WENT BACK TO SCHOOL, FAMILY. Working 60 hours per week and going to school at night does not lend itself to posting on this forum...

Thx Mike to let us know about the reason for the break and since I know that by now I'm still happy with waiting for your hopefully expected result.
Good luck for you in everything

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

that is one of the main reasons I prefered sticking with the 250's ECU and electrics... much less complex at least...

Wrong, they are same-same - only the mappings are different.

And here as reminder some basics about mapping:
A minimal change of only 2% towards richer could bring a power increase of 2-3 hp.
A change of 5% towards leaner in most cases means a performance increase of up to 5 hp.
The above is said about the bigger bikes, 600 and more - our little Ninja will not have that big increase in power.
A change of 4% more towards richer or leaner will at least show no effect, meaning the value for leaner is ideal and why give more fuel than necessary!
Jumps of more than 5-8 percent, whether in the plus or minus range are not normal (this is the case also with the usage of so-called auto-tune devices).
If this would be normal, then the stock mapping would be already badly out off range, but that usually is not the case (or does anybody think the engineers of the manufacturer are so stupid?).
Stay away from the TPM-Values below 11% because there the IAP is working and changes in this setting are only possible with using very expensive test equipment (which also a normal Dyno shop does not have, they only measure AFR and that by far is not enough).
Good luck to make the jump over 40 hp with your engine, but with that high number in cc I have no doubt

[Major_Paine]

@Racer x - would i be able to find your build threads by looking at the threads you created?

[Racer x]

Ya just go to my profile and the threads started by me. The turbo build is now under the salt shaker thread. I need to get the FI working and I need to ride the bike to do that. So I started a new thread.

[garth285]

T -1:00

:-)

[garth285]

LAUNCH FAILURE....... :-(

Pouring rain at the house when I got home, the dyno will have to wait!

[Major_Paine]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Ya just go to my profile and the threads started by me. The turbo build is now under the salt shaker thread. I need to get the FI working and I need to ride the bike to do that. So I started a new thread.

oh awesome thanks!

[garth285]

@Racer x - I may have been wrong about the stock wastegate settings. I finally got my boost gauge to replay the max boost and when I was riding it I saw a 10psi once or twice.... I played back the max boost recorded and saw 11psi!

might be a .75bar spring.

I only got the bike to about 11,000-11,500 rpms though so it might go a little more!

[Racer x]

What is your compresson? What are you using for gas?

[garth285]

Bone stock motor I think it has about 18k miles or so....

Fresh E85 - base fuel pressure 44psi with 1:1 regulator so up to 56psi at that 11lbs of boost.

30* of timing

[garth285]

Also going to switch to a cooler plug Going to run iridium 9's - CR9EIA-9's to be exact.

[garth285]

Got thus super sweet turbo inlet in and a k&n filter. The filter is slightly offset which at first I didn't like but no I do because it gives me some clearance!

[Racer x]

This is looking so sweet. I cant wait to get my junk running.

[garth285]

Thanks, it's so much fun so far.

Pardon the ghetto oil pressure gauge lol. That will go once I confirm it's steady on the dyno

[garth285]

Finally found a damn BOV locally, a buddy who has a shop happend to have one laying around, small nice little compact unit.... best price ever.... FREE!

So I brought the plenum with me to work today and on the way home I'll drop it off to the welder so he can weld a flange on it \.

http://www.silberturbos.com/product/bov1

[APEmike]

Why just WHY did you have to make this thread!?!?! My '14 300 just cracked 700 miles this morning and this d*** thread already has me scouring the net for parts! It does NOT help that the 300 has much lower compression from the get-go, bigger intake ports, and of course more CCs to push a turbo... *plus I work at a place that can probably piece together a stud kit...*

[garth285]

LOL @APEmike

Dude your like more than half the way there for a turbo setup. You have fuel injection all you really need to do is build the kit and boost it! If you run it on E85 you will keep things very safe. I doubt you would even need studs.

Do it ya vagina!

[APEmike]

I wish... E85 is hard to come by in my area. Its a 2 hour drive to the closest station. I have to make due with California 91 :/

[choneofakind]

Isn't there already a turbo kit from Indonesia somewhere for the newest generation of 250/300? Just copy their kit with the parts you want.

[garth285]

Originally Posted by APEmike

I wish... E85 is hard to come by in my area. Its a 2 hour drive to the closest station. I have to make due with California 91 :/

Oh bummer!

Well I am sure you can make good power on 91. you will just have to get the timing turned down correctly and you would be set.

If you have someone who can weld for you just fab up your own kit, you can copy a little bit of everything from anyones kits online and make your own.

If you need head stud data like how long they need to be let me know, I believe the 250/300's have the same length bolts. ARP actually makes the right length stud but a 10mm instead of a 8mm but you would have to do a bit of machine work.

Not including the EFI conversion I think I only have about $7-800 into the turbo side of things.

The 300 has an intank pump, which if its a standard kawi pump you can drop in an AEM 320LPH pump which is good for shoot probably 300hp lol... but fuel pumps are cheap insurance. if you need more injector I know which ones will drop in for more flow.

I say you do it! I'd love to see a turbo 300!

Also if you ever need a ECU Flash let me know I have the stuff to do it! If you did do a turbo 300 all you would need on fuel side is a PCV and I could turn the timing down for you in the ECU if the PCV cant.

[garth285]

December Update: http://www.turbo250.com/uncategorize...-bov-and-more/
@Racer x I have some good clutch spring info in there!

[garth285]

UPDATES:

- Changed the plugs to the Iridium 9's
- Rough sanded and painted the plenum to look a little nicer
- Installed the BOV with a temporary straight tube (90* will be in soon)
- moved my boost gauge a little so the upper fairing will fit better
- moved my RPM pickup from the coils to the injector (will read cleaner and not jumpy)

Hopefully will be able to run the bike after work today and make sure the BOV is working well as well as the logger, the clutch springs, and the latest tune

[garth285]

Plenum has some blemishes but the paint makes it look a bit better

Before:



After:

[APEmike]

Thats a big fuel pump. Like overkill big. The build looks great! Ide love to try this out. Maybe when my kids allow me to have a few spare dollars... I might just have to take you up on the ECU flash! Also I was excited to read about the clutch info, but I realized we have very different clutches and I am not sure how the slipper clutch will like having stiffer springs than OEM.

[garth285]

Originally Posted by APEmike

Thats a big fuel pump. Like overkill big. The build looks great! Ide love to try this out. Maybe when my kids allow me to have a few spare dollars... I might just have to take you up on the ECU flash! Also I was excited to read about the clutch info, but I realized we have very different clutches and I am not sure how the slipper clutch will like having stiffer springs than OEM.

Yeah 320lph is big... Walbro makes an intank pump thats only 255lph as well.

Yeah let me know if you wanna mess with the ECU, there isnt a whole lot of stuff to be unlocked in the ECU but we can play with it!

Barnett probably has a spring that would work for you, you can email them and they will be able to match something up for ya.

On the note of the slipper clutch, when I had my zx10r's we used to weld the slipper clutch's inner hub solid so it wouldnt slip, to much power will make the clutch chatter and skip but the 300's might not have that problem.

You could also shim the stock clutch springs as well to get some more pressure out of them.

[garth285]

Took the bike for a spin around the block with the blow off valve installed, all is working well in that area, got the 90* in today as well so I'll install that later.

I am having one problem.... 10,500rpm limiter :-( Not sure whats going on there so I'll be diggin more into that.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[garth285]

Well nothing that I have unplugged should be limiting me to 10,500 rpms, I was thinking if my speed sensor was unplugged it might put the bike in limp mode but I checked the service manual and it says it will just put the bike in 6th gear.

I was also wondering if the ECU is looking at the bike in Neutral instead of in gear but the Neutral map and the gear maps are the same fuel wise

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[garth285]

I may have figured out why the bike was only revving to 10,500.... well hopefully. The ECU maps only have 10,000 then 10,500 and then 11,000 rpms in the fuel cells, the 10,000 cell had about 10% fuel added, 10,500 only had 2% and then 11,000 had 30% I must have missed that cell in the mapping so I made it 20% and I'll give it a try again tomorrow and see if it will rev past 10,500

I wish I could just get to the damn dyno!

[garth285]

A little update:

I wound up getting rid of my AEM Tru-Boost gauge/controller as well as my Daytona Sensors Wego III.

I bought a Innovate LM-2 data logger with their Aux-Box (LMA-3) and their analog input/output cable. This will allow me to data log the following: RPM, TPS, O2, Vacuum/Boost, EGT, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressure, and any other thing I may need to monitor. I have a total of 10 channels I can use to data log between those two units. I thought I was going to be able to monitor oil temp with this unit but I cant, its either Exhaust Gas Temp, Cylinder Head Temp, or another k-type probe but I'll be running a EGT to make sure shes not getting to hot.

The unit also can monitor side to side and acceleration and deceleration G forces which is neat to see what it can pull.

I should FINALLY be going to the dyno this Friday to see what kind of power she will put down, hoping to break the 69hp record!

Will keep all posted.

[Racer x]

Best of luck. Registration for Ohio may opens Feb 1 it will sell out quick. And hotels also.

[garth285]

Thanks! I actually think I will be going to the June event. Trying to schedule the work vacation around those days and it might just work out.

[Racer x]

June is good. The weather can be better than any other. Not sure if I can make that one.

[garth285]

Got most of my logger hooked up. I dont have my EGT installed yet but as of right now I can monitor (In order of photo below)

RPM
Turbo Oil PSI
Throttle Position Sensor
Boost/Vacuum
Acceleration G-Forces
Air Fuel Ratio

Hopefully I can take it for a spin around the block and see what this logger has to show me. I wish I had the funds available for a TC-4 from innovate which allows me to monitor a lot more temps but oh well. I'll keep an eye on these inputs for now.

I finally finished converting a jetski trailer over to a motorcycle trailer, what a pain in the ass that was but now I dont have a excuse for getting the bike to the dyno lol... hopefully next week we'll see dyno numbers.