Broke the shift rod on a lowside help?

[daverdfw]

Had a lowside on the track today. Rearset ripped a small hole in the frame which I can just get welded. The bigger issue is the shift linkage broke the end of the shift rod off. The bike does not indicate its in neutral, but the bike rolls freely and I cannot move the shift shaft with a pair of vise grips. Has anyone had to do this repair before I found the part here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-EX2...3D350086230565

But I have no idea what I gotta do to swap it out. here is a pic of the damage

[daverdfw]

Had a lowside on the track today. Rearset ripped a small hole in the frame which I can just get welded. The bigger issue is the shift linkage broke the end of the shift rod off. The bike does not indicate its in neutral, but the bike rolls freely and I cannot move the shift shaft with a pair of vise grips. Has anyone had to do this repair before I found the part here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-EX2...3D350086230565

But I have no idea what I gotta do to swap it out. here is a pic of the damage

[Motofool]

The repair is not something that you could do today.
Take the bike home and rest.

By removing the chain cover, you will be able to turn the shaft.

[daverdfw]

bike is loaded up, Just trying to figure out how I can fix it, I took the over off and used a pair of vice grips and I cant turn the lever. Which has mw worried if i bent the shift forks or something. I ordered the part on ebay looks like I can get to it from the right side of the case?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

bike is loaded up, Just trying to figure out how I can fix it, I took the over off and used a pair of vice grips and I cant turn the lever. Which has mw worried if i bent the shift forks or something. I ordered the part on ebay looks like I can get to it from the right side of the case?

Did you get hurt?

The broken shaft must be pulled out from the clutch cavity, within which the gear selector mechanism is located.

You will need to remove the clutch assembly and to replace the cover gasket.

The shaft is not rotating now because it was forced all the way in and the selector is jammed.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Did you get hurt?

The broken shaft must be pulled out from the clutch cavity, within which the gear selector mechanism is located.

You will need to remove the clutch assembly and to replace the cover gasket.

The shaft is not rotating now because it was forced all the way in and the selector is jammed.

only thing hurt is my pride! Just a small bump on my knee but it was low speed. I am trying to disengage the clutch lever to get the cover off. Makes sense about it being pushed in and jamming up. I hope that all it is. Because the bike is basically in neutral so not sure what else could be broke.

[daverdfw]

well this explains why it was bound up. So I am trying to pull it out, the service manual says it should just slide out but it kinda sticks. Maybe because the shaft is a little marred on the end from using pliers to try and shift it?

EDIt: I got it out, just used tapped it out.

[GregS]

That shift rod goes all the way through the engine cases. You will have to remove the right hand side engine cover, then remove the clutch and finally pull the rod out. You can find some pictures here.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...+spring&page=2

If you're mechanically inclined it's not that hard. Probably the hardest part is getting the clutch nut off. You'll either need a clutch holding tool, or an impact to spin it off.

Here is a pretty good tutorial that helped me when I installed the Factory Pro shift kit.

http://www.kawiforums.com/how-tos-fa...hift-star.html

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by GregS

That shift rod goes all the way through the engine cases. You will have to remove the right hand side engine cover, then remove the clutch and finally pull the rod out. You can find some pictures here.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...+spring&page=2

If you're mechanically inclined it's not that hard. Probably the hardest part is getting the clutch nut off. You'll either need a clutch holding tool, or an impact to spin it off.

Here is a pretty good tutorial that helped me when I installed the Factory Pro shift kit.

http://www.kawiforums.com/how-tos-fa...hift-star.html

Thanks! I accidentally posted in the Farkles thread as well. I have it all torn apart ready to fix. I used my impact to get the nut off, but getting it back on and torqued correctly I found a cheap EBC tool to hold the basket.

Here is the thread posted pic of where the claw from jumped out from behind the drum

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...18#post1123018

[GregS]

Do you have a grinder that you can use to grind off the rest of the shaft that is still sticking out.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by GregS

Do you have a grinder that you can use to grind off the rest of the shaft that is still sticking out.

why would I grind it off? And on a side note that lower rearset bolt is now stripped, tried an easyout, i thought it would work then just spun. I guess I should drill it off?

[GregS]

Oops - did not see that you had already got the shaft out. I don't recall if there is a seal on that shaft where it comes out of the case, if there is you might have damaged it when you tapped the shaft out. Might be a good idea to replace it so you don't have a small oil leak

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by GregS

Oops - did not see that you had already got the shaft out. I don't recall if there is a seal on that shaft where it comes out of the case, if there is you might have damaged it when you tapped the shaft out. Might be a good idea to replace it so you don't have a small oil leak

ah no worries. luckily I did not have to tap super hard to get it out. I will check on that seal though.

[Alex]

/merged
/moved to new-gen tech

[daverdfw]

so I have the parts in, and something weird happened, when I was torquing the big clutch basket nut I heard a snap, I lookinside and int he pic you see on the center shaft, the upper half part of the case like broke off?

The other question is the big gear in the bottom, should it be turning freely? Really confused here.

[daverdfw]

So I have t back together with the clutch on, I can shift gears and get it into neutral, but there is a loud clanking noise when I spin the rear tire. Any ideas what the hell is broken inside?

so the big questions are is the case ok with that piece broken off that holds the bearing. and when the bike crashed it was technically in gear, but it rolled like it was in neutral, and now that I was able to shift the drum to neutral it makes this loud clank clank noise when you spin the wheel, is a gear broken?

seems like my best bet is to drop the motor and split to case to see whats going on. A local shop on ebay has the loser case for $90 and the entire transmission for $50, should I go that route?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

........ should I go that route?

I see no reason for an internal broken part in your transmission.

Could you explain that tire-noise relation a little more?

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I see no reason for an internal broken part in your transmission.

Could you explain that tire-noise relation a little more?

its a clicking noise coming from inside the transmission, you can feel it harder to turn in neutral. when I drained the oil I spotted silver flakes of metal.

when you spin the rear wheel sometimes it will feel like its not spinning smoothly. when it was "in gear" after the crash it was fine, as soon as I got the gearshift lever replaced and put it into real neutral, thats when this issue started and makes me think something broke inside

With the clutch removed when I spin the wheel It doesnt make that noise. its whatever its spinning on that bottom gear.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

......... With the clutch removed when I spin the wheel It doesnt make that noise. its whatever its spinning on that bottom gear.

See if the selector drum (part 13239) has a lateral play.
If so, try spinning the wheel for both extreme positions of that shaft.
If not, try firmly tapping the end inwards with a rubber or plastic hammer or an aluminum bar.

I assume that the replaced shaft and the fingers of the selector pulled the drum out to an abnormal position during the crash.
Then, the cams of the drum forced the forks (parts 13140 and 13140A) to an abnormal position.
This excessively reduced the play among sliding gears and what you hear are the dog teeth slightly hitting each other.

That may be the reason for that chunk of cast aluminum to break away, when the bearing and shaft (13127) were forced out.

If the above is correct, pushing-tapping the selector drum (part 13239) and shaft (13127) all the way in may eliminate the problem.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

See if the selector drum (part 13239) has a lateral play.
If so, try spinning the wheel for both extreme positions of that shaft.
If not, try firmly tapping the end inwards with a rubber or plastic hammer or an aluminum bar.

I assume that the replaced shaft and the fingers of the selector pulled the drum out to an abnormal position during the crash.
Then, the cams of the drum forced the forks (parts 13140 and 13140A) to an abnormal position.
This excessively reduced the play among sliding gears and what you hear are the dog teeth slightly hitting each other.

That may be the reason for that chunk of cast aluminum to break away, when the bearing and shaft (13127) were forced out.

If the above is correct, pushing-tapping the selector drum (part 13239) and shaft (13127) all the way in may eliminate the problem.

interesting, I tried tapping 13127 and it already has a slight bit of play. I gotta pull the select claws out in order to check the drum. If that is indeed the issue, would I still be ok with the case losing that half of bearing support?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

interesting, I tried tapping 13127 and it already has a slight bit of play. I gotta pull the select claws out in order to check the drum. If that is indeed the issue, would I still be ok with the case losing that half of bearing support?

Yes, it would be OK.
Torque the nut of the clutch per manufacturer's specifications.
Also, check that the claws are not excessively bent or deformed (not related to the noise, but as a possible consequence of the crash).

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, it would be OK.
Torque the nut of the clutch per manufacturer's specifications.
Also, check that the claws are not excessively bent or deformed (not related to the noise, but as a possible consequence of the crash).

the claws are new because the shift rod broke. So here is the thing, whenever I try and torque that nut on, it pulls the bearing back out of place. I might have broken the case myself. my torque wrench never hit 97 ft-lb which is what baffles me. So how tight are you guys putting this nut on so it wont pull the shaft and bearing back out? I mean worse case, I get a new lower case which I found locally for $100.

SO when I try to lightly torque that nut to like 50 ft lb, i hear a slight click, I pull the clutch and it pulled the bearing back out again. Not sure whats going on there.

[Motofool]

Please, verify that the washers and central bushing are assembled in this order and that none is missing:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...89&postcount=5

There is no reason for that bearing to be forced out other that using the clutch housing as an extractor.
All the gears in the clutch cavity should be engaged and the clutch housing should try to rotate the crankshaft and the oil pump.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Please, verify that the washers and central bushing are assembled in this order and that none is missing:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...89&postcount=5

There is no reason for that bearing to be forced out other that using the clutch housing as an extractor.
All the gears in the clutch cavity should be engaged and the clutch housing should try to rotate the crankshaft and the oil pump.

I am 99% sure i had everything in the correct order. I am going by the service manual. I will double check and post a pic of how I have it installed

[Motofool]

That 1% may be the source of the noise and the broken cast, if the shaft and bearing have been forced and relocated outwards some.

The nut puts pressure on the washers and bushing and the internal ring of the bearingand shaft.
No pressure should reach the balls or the outer ring of the bearing or the cluch housing.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

That 1% may be the source of the noise and the broken cast, if the shaft and bearing have been forced and relocated outwards some.

The nut puts pressure on the washers and bushing and the internal ring of the bearingand shaft.
No pressure should reach the balls or the outer ring of the bearing or the cluch housing.

ok let me double check, thanks for all of your help. Looks like a local shop has the lower case for $90, worst case I just swap it out?

[daverdfw]

sigh,

so I had everything in the correct order, what I think I messed up on was I didnt have the gear on the clutch completely slid back and so thats what busted the bearing support. Stupid mistake on my part. I put it back together and then took it apart, and sure enough the bearing support didnt move.


So I guess I asked earlier, but I am totally ok to track this bike without that bearing support? Thanks so much for bearing with me, very much a learning process for sure.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

sigh,

so I had everything in the correct order, what I think I messed up on was I didnt have the gear on the clutch completely slid back and so thats what busted the bearing support. Stupid mistake on my part. I put it back together and then took it apart, and sure enough the bearing support didnt move.


So I guess I asked earlier, but I am totally ok to track this bike without that bearing support? Thanks so much for bearing with me, very much a learning process for sure.

I would not replace the crankcase for that; a succesful replacement takes much more than a new part.
You will need special tools, new gaskets and heating and cooling in order to transfer everything over.

Although it is difficult to asses the damage to the bearing casing from the pics, it is all about the amount of aluminum area hugging the bearing.
That is called an interference fit, which means the diameter of the aluminum housing is smaller than the diameter of the bearing and the assembly is performed with the bearing being cooled down and the casing being heated up.
If the remaining area is above 80% of the original, I would say the bearing will stay in place without spinning or shifting.

I woud tap the shaft and the outer ring of the bearing all the way in, as far as they can go.
Then, carefully assembling the clutch, checking free rotation and proper meshing of the gears for each step and applying the proper torque.
Also, verifing that the transmission and shifting works flawlessly and silently.

Clean the old gasket from both surfaces, caring not to dent or scratch the soft surfaces, apply grease over both sides of the new gasket, set it in place and bolt the cover in a cross pattern.
Replace oil and go happily riding for many more miles.

You are welcome.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Motofool

I would not replace the crankcase for that; a succesful replacement takes much more than a new part.
You will need special tools, new gaskets and heating and cooling in order to transfer everything over.

Although it is difficult to asses the damage to the bearing casing from the pics, it is all about the amount of aluminum area hugging the bearing.
That is called an interference fit, which means the diameter of the aluminum housing is smaller than the diameter of the bearing and the assembly is performed with the bearing being cooled down and the casing being heated up.
If the remaining area is above 80% of the original, I would say the bearing will stay in place without spinning or shifting.

I woud tap the shaft and the outer ring of the bearing all the way in, as far as they can go.
Then, carefully assembling the clutch, checking free rotation and proper meshing of the gears for each step and applying the proper torque.
Also, verifing that the transmission and shifting works flawlessly and silently.

Clean the old gasket from both surfaces, caring not to dent or scratch the soft surfaces, apply grease over both sides of the new gasket, set it in place and bolt the cover in a cross pattern.
Replace oil and go happily riding for many more miles.

You are welcome.

Its hard to try and shift because I have the rearset off, and the shift rod broke, so I am just grabbing it by the piece that slides over the shaft to try and shift, sometimes it will go and sometimes it wont. Here are some pics of the bearing

[Motofool]

My vote is for "safe to keep it as is", unless you can see some crack on the remaining edge.
The biggest force trying to pull that bearing out is the one created by the springs when the cluch lever is fully deflected.
Worst case scenario, transmission will let you know that it is time to return to the current point, gather tools and parts and perform deep surgery.

Let's call some other members and wait for their wise advice:
@dcj13
@jkv45
@Racer x
@RacinNinja
@E D A engine

[Racer x]

That really sucks. My lawyer says it is not safe. But my gut racer says the case is holding the bearing enough to keep the bearing from walking out.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Racer x

That really sucks. My lawyer says it is not safe. But my gut racer says the case is holding the bearing enough to keep the bearing from walking out.

haha ok, well that 2 votes for riding it as is as long as the gears function correctly.

[Racer x]

If I had to repair somthing like this I would use a very small tap and drill a couple very small holes. Then tap them with threads and lock tight small screws so the half moon is locked in place.

[cuong-nutz]

I think too that you would be okay to ride it as-is. The bearing will not walk completely out with the washer on the rear face of the clutch basket in a worse case scenario.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

I think too that you would be okay to ride it as-is. The bearing will not walk completely out with the washer on the rear face of the clutch basket in a worse case scenario.

Ditto. The bearing is loaded radially, not axially. Half the cast flange should be sufficient to hold the bearing axially. If it were mine, I'd ride with it.

[daverdfw]

thanks everyone, I am going to put everything back together and then I will test ride it around and make sure the gears feel right before I take it back to the track.

[jkv45]

I'd run it.

EDIT: This has been bothering me. After looking closer at it, and listening to what others with more experience have to say, I would at least try to make some type of repair before putting it back together. Maybe JB Weld around the upper circumference of the bearing to retain the clip. I personally wouldn't pull the engine apart and buy an upper case half though. I'd just find another engine and have some spare parts or parts to experiment on, like for head porting or other mods.

[bruce71198]

You need an upper case not a lower. That portion that broke holds the transmission main shaft centered in the transmission. It is essential that that shaft stays where it is, all the gears are constantly meshed. The snap ring on the outside of that bearing is what broke the case. There is not enough pressure from the case halves to hold the bearing in place. If you run it as is the best case scenario is that everything stays lined up and you have no issues, worst case scenario the shaft starts walking its way out and you engage 2 gears at once=instant lookup of the trans. I wouldn't run it that way.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

You need an upper case not a lower. That portion that broke holds the transmission main shaft centered in the transmission. It is essential that that shaft stays where it is, all the gears are constantly meshed. The snap ring on the outside of that bearing is what broke the case. There is not enough pressure from the case halves to hold the bearing in place. If you run it as is the best case scenario is that everything stays lined up and you have no issues, worst case scenario the shaft starts walking its way out and you engage 2 gears at once=instant lookup of the trans. I wouldn't run it that way.

right, I have seen entire lower crankcases go pretty cheaply. Would this be something I could be better off replacing just that upper part of the case? Is that something I could do fairly easily? I basically have the motor ready to drop out of the frame. minus the stubborn sprocket nut that wont even budge with my impact wrench.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by dcj13

Ditto. The bearing is loaded radially, not axially. Half the cast flange should be sufficient to hold the bearing axially. If it were mine, I'd ride with it.

Not quite....that shaft is for the clutch basket.

What happens when you pull the clutch lever? That shaft gets loaded axially as the clutch springs get compressed to release the plates.

I wouldn't run it. The other side is now taking all of the axial pressure from the clutch springs. It's doing twice the work...and if it goes, you're going to lock up your transmission and the rear tire.

Lastly, the only locator ring for that bearing is in the top half of the case. Which means now, that locator half ring is not doing anything. The lower half of the case does not have the bearing locator ring......