Broke the shift rod on a lowside help?

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

Ok! Thanks for confirming.

Although, re-reading the manual the service limit is 0.0031 so I guess the green would work as a go no go if the X isn't available?

looks like I could order it online

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plastigauge-...-/361415404447

having a hard time finding the smaller ones like this anywhere online in the states.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

looks like I could order it online

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plastigauge-...-/361415404447

having a hard time finding the smaller ones like this anywhere online in the states.

Hang on a sec....let @bruce71198 confirm my theory about go no-go using the commonly available green stuff before you order. Might just be the ticket!!

The only bad thing I can think of is that if the Platigage is too thick, there may be a risk of marring a soft bearing face. I'm not a 100% expert on this so a second or third opinion would be good. @Motofool

[daverdfw]

having trouble trying to find the correct flywheel puller, will this one work for newgen?

https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08...ct_top?ie=UTF8

according to this thread it should work

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=176911

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

Hang on a sec....let @bruce71198 confirm my theory about go no-go using the commonly available green stuff before you order. Might just be the ticket!!

The only bad thing I can think of is that if the Platigage is too thick, there may be a risk of marring a soft bearing face. I'm not a 100% expert on this so a second or third opinion would be good. @Motofool

Plastigage comes in red, blue and green depending on the clearance measured.
Local auto parts store has it or can get it.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Plastigage comes in red, blue and green depending on the clearance measured.
Local auto parts store has it or can get it.

What about the too thick leave a mark on the bearing part? Is that fact or myth? I've never experienced it myself.

[bruce71198]

https://youtu.be/q3pHb-qXZc8

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

https://youtu.be/q3pHb-qXZc8

Link to original page on YouTube.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

Link to original page on YouTube.

so would the green work? or would I be better off getting the correct ones?

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Getting the block back on the Pistons is easy. There is a chamfer at the bottom of the block. It is a process or twisting and rocking as you tuck the rings into the block.
One thing I did not think about is the c clips that hold the wrist pins. They should not be reused.

Can you run forged Pistons ? It's another 300 bucks but 12.5 to one Pistons are nice.

so question about the forged pistons, I get their are stronger and therefor produce better compression, what difference in terms of HP would it give? and would I need to get the head worked on to accommodate these?

[cuong-nutz]

I don't ever think I have ever used the red stuff nor so I recall the clearances it measures. I have always used the green ones without issue.

No experiences with too thick of plastigage since I use one that measures the range of clearance needed.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

so question about the forged pistons, I get their are stronger and therefor produce better compression, what difference in terms of HP would it give? and would I need to get the head worked on to accommodate these?

I only use JE forged Pistons. I use the 12.5 to one Pistons and the are a simple drop in part.

As for power you get a tiny bit of top end power. But you get a wide power band increase. Like the engine hits 30 hp at 7000 rpm instead of 8500 and is still making power out at 12500 before dropping off.

Of corse ignition carb work full exhaust is also kinda going along with it. They are actually heavy compaired to stock a couple grams but I found on the last engine this was good.

I love them but it is a couple hundred dollars and if you race check the class rules

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I only use JE forged Pistons. I use the 12.5 to one Pistons and the are a simple drop in part.

As for power you get a tiny bit of top end power. But you get a wide power band increase. Like the engine hits 30 hp at 7000 rpm instead of 8500 and is still making power out at 12500 before dropping off.

Of corse ignition carb work full exhaust is also kinda going along with it. They are actually heavy compaired to stock a couple grams but I found on the last engine this was good.

I love them but it is a couple hundred dollars and if you race check the class rules

I have a full M4 system, K&N filter and a Factory Pro stage 3 jetkit installed already.

[Racer x]

Pistons and an ignition upgrade and you will be at or about 34 hp with a smooth power band.
Then it's all about head and cam work. I'm still experimenting with that stuff.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Pistons and an ignition upgrade and you will be at or about 34 hp with a smooth power band.
Then it's all about head and cam work. I'm still experimenting with that stuff.

I think for now I am going to stick with just fixing this issue. I am hoping I can pull it off. From what you guys have all said I think I can. I have a new head gasket, oil pump gasket and cover gaskets coming. I think if I get lucky with the same blue paint on the bearings on both cases, it sounds like I can pull this off by just taking my time and checking clearances on everything. And Hoepfully I can get another season or 2 of track days out of it. And new snap rings for the pistons coming.

I am also wanting to pull the Positive Neutral Finder bearings out too. I hate that damn thing.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

I am also wanting to pull the Positive Neutral Finder bearings out too. I hate that damn thing.

You will hate it more without it, as in NEVER finding neutral. You will need to disassemble the counter shaft to remove it, it's not what you think it is.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

You will hate it more without it, as in NEVER finding neutral. You will need to disassemble the counter shaft to remove it, it's not what you think it is.

Maybe I will just leave it alone then

[daverdfw]

So can I use the free plastigage from the parts store or do I need to order that other one with the smaller tolerances ?

so it looks like I can use the green plastigage I will get some.

From reading the FSM and this thread, the main thing is I should transfer all of my bearings from the old case to the new one. And since they are sized to the crank, there should be no issues since the old engine was running just fine even after I crashed the motor ran I just couldnt get a gear to engage.

Once I get the cases I will take pics and post here to verify the color hopefully blue. And then will basically proceed to take all of the components out of the old case and transplant into the new one. Using the plastigage to double check the clearance even when reusing my old bearings. Clean all mating surfaces, replace gaskets, use thin layer of HondaBond HT which I have coming tomorrow.

Also I will follow the FSM to align the crank and cams based on the marks they put on the gears to align them correctly. Before I take everything apart should I put the crank at TDC? or does it not matter since I am taking it out.


Am I on the right path here?

just as a point of clarification, the bearing inserts are split in half, I have seen conflicting info on wether I can just swap them from the old case or they are somehow like pressed into each case half? Can someone shed some light on this for me.

[daverdfw]

So I have the flywheel off, the cam shafts and timing chain. About to take off the head. Just taking my time , reading the FSM many times and slow and steady.

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

So can I use the free plastigage from the parts store or do I need to order that other one with the smaller tolerances ?

so it looks like I can use the green plastigage I will get some.

From reading the FSM and this thread, the main thing is I should transfer all of my bearings from the old case to the new one. And since they are sized to the crank, there should be no issues since the old engine was running just fine even after I crashed the motor ran I just couldnt get a gear to engage.

Once I get the cases I will take pics and post here to verify the color hopefully blue. And then will basically proceed to take all of the components out of the old case and transplant into the new one. Using the plastigage to double check the clearance even when reusing my old bearings. Clean all mating surfaces, replace gaskets, use thin layer of HondaBond HT which I have coming tomorrow.

Also I will follow the FSM to align the crank and cams based on the marks they put on the gears to align them correctly. Before I take everything apart should I put the crank at TDC? or does it not matter since I am taking it out.


Am I on the right path here?

just as a point of clarification, the bearing inserts are split in half, I have seen conflicting info on wether I can just swap them from the old case or they are somehow like pressed into each case half? Can someone shed some light on this for me.

There are blue bearings and brown ones. These will be marked on the cases by a blue or brown paint spot. Provided both cases have the same colors, the bearings should be good to go. Color codes are on a flange on a case half.

[daverdfw]

here is where I am right now. how do I get the snap rings out of the piston? they dont have the holes like normal snap rings.

[RacinNinja]

A small pick or flat blade screwdriver. Get one end out and then work your way around the ring.

[Racer x]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

So can I use the free plastigage from the parts store or do I need to order that other one with the smaller tolerances ?

so it looks like I can use the green plastigage I will get some.

From reading the FSM and this thread, the main thing is I should transfer all of my bearings from the old case to the new one. And since they are sized to the crank, there should be no issues since the old engine was running just fine even after I crashed the motor ran I just couldnt get a gear to engage.

Once I get the cases I will take pics and post here to verify the color hopefully blue. And then will basically proceed to take all of the components out of the old case and transplant into the new one. Using the plastigage to double check the clearance even when reusing my old bearings. Clean all mating surfaces, replace gaskets, use thin layer of HondaBond HT which I have coming tomorrow.

Also I will follow the FSM to align the crank and cams based on the marks they put on the gears to align them correctly. Before I take everything apart should I put the crank at TDC? or does it not matter since I am taking it out.


Am I on the right path here?

just as a point of clarification, the bearing inserts are split in half, I have seen conflicting info on wether I can just swap them from the old case or they are somehow like pressed into each case half? Can someone shed some light on this for me.

Keep the old crankshaft bearings and the countershaft bearing with you crankshaft. Don't mix them up. And remove the bearings from the new case and set them aside.

Regardless of paint color reasssemble the bottom end with the old bearings and use plastiguage to check clearance from there. The bearings and crank have worn in together. IF the colors match its just that much better. But regardless you will need to check clearance.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Keep the old crankshaft bearings and the countershaft bearing with you crankshaft. Don't mix them up. And remove the bearings from the new case and set them aside.

Regardless of paint color reasssemble the bottom end with the old bearings and use plastiguage to check clearance from there. The bearings and crank have worn in together. IF the colors match its just that much better. But regardless you will need to check clearance.

ok I have the pistons off. just working on the case bolts. I will have it apart shortly and will take pics of what I find. Thanks so much guys.

Also I can use the green plastigage from the local parts store for this?

[Racer x]

I think so. I never looked at the pipes. Did you use a puller to remove the flywheel?

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I think so. I never looked at the pipes. Did you use a puller to remove the flywheel?

yup I got a motion pro tool. used an impact and bused it loose.

[daverdfw]

ok so it looks like I have the brown (white) looking paint marks. Transmission looks fine, I see no metal pieces or anything funny going on.

[daverdfw]

so upon closer examination. on the top or 12 oclock position on the bearings,

the crank has yellow paint

the counterbalance has blue on theirs

[Racer x]

Interesting. Don't mix any of the shells up and just transfer it all to the new case when you get. Then measure the clearance.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Interesting. Don't mix any of the shells up and just transfer it all to the new case when you get. Then measure the clearance.

So I just take like a small flat head and kinda pry the bearing out on that one side that has the tab ?

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

So I just take like a small flat head and kinda pry the bearing out on that one side that has the tab ?

No.

Push down on the opposite side edge. It will roll/slide out of the case. Do not use any kind of tool to push them out because if that tool slips, you've just ruined a bearing half. Since you are planning on re-using them, I wouldn't use a tool.

Should come out pretty easily with good thumb pressure. Hard for me to explain, lemme see if I can find a picture or video.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

No.

Push down on the opposite side edge. It will roll/slide out of the case. Do not use any kind of tool to push them out because if that tool slips, you've just ruined a bearing half.

Should come out pretty easily with good thumb pressure. Hard for me to explain, lemme see if I can find a picture or video.

That makes sense. Now I gotta track down some green plastigage

[RacinNinja]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

That makes sense. Now I gotta track down some green plastigage

Napa, O'Reilly's or even AutoZone should have it.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

Napa, O'Reilly's or even AutoZone should have it.

Yeah no go at autozone. I'll find some

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

Yeah no go at autozone. I'll find some

Yep autozones don't seem to carry it at all or at least the Texas location. O'Reilly for sure will.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Yep autozones don't seem to carry it at all or at least the Texas location. O'Reilly for sure will.

so I just use the green ones on all of the crank and countershaft bearings?

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

so I just use the green ones on all of the crank and countershaft bearings?

Yup

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

Yup

ok! do you have to put every single case bolt back in? or just the ones near where the crank is?

[cuong-nutz]

I did it both ways and from what I vaguely remember it did not make that much of difference but I went ahead and did it for peace of mind since I was rebuilding the whole shebang.

[daverdfw]

Originally Posted by cuong-nutz

I did it both ways and from what I vaguely remember it did not make that much of difference but I went ahead and did it for peace of mind since I was rebuilding the whole shebang.

I will just bolt it all back up.

I see you have ridesmart in your sig. you ever come up to cresson ??

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by daverdfw

I will just bolt it all back up.

I see you have ridesmart in your sig. you ever come up to cresson ??

Nope. I haven't been on a track in a few years now.