Winterizing your 250R?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by anomolli

Does everyone here pretty much change their own oil and filter? I've been reading through this forum as well as the service manual and it seems like the initial task takes a bit of investment on my part. Meaning, i have to buy the rear stand, tools, etc. to get the job done. So i'm just wondering if people take it to the mechanic to get the oil changed and then drain the carbs and add stabilizer themselves? Or is it the culture to kind of get your hands dirty yourself?

Are you comfortable working with tools?

I suggest reading throught the oil change DIY and see if you feel that is something you are capable of. No swing arm stand needed and the tools are in your bike's tool kit, as Craig noted.

[anomolli]

I'm comfortable using tools, it's the bike i'm not comfortable with... LOL Power tools aren't foreign to me, but the mechanics of bikes and cars for that matter are something i've never ventured into. As with any uncharted territory, there's a bit of hesitation.

[kkim]

If you are willing to learn, doing your own simple maintenance items on the bike is a great way to learn how and become intimate with your ride at the same time.

er... no power tools, though.

[anomolli]

Originally Posted by kkim

If you are willing to learn, doing your own simple maintenance items on the bike is a great way to learn how and become intimate with your ride at the same time.

er... no power tools, though.

LOL, right... *hides power drill behind back* no power tools!

[gamma500]

You sound like you'd have no problem tackling an oil change job...the question is whether the satisfaction you'd receive from doing it exceeds the labor expended...or, fairly often in the beginning, the satisfaction garnered from solving the "second" problem produced trying to perform the original task.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by anomolli

Does everyone here pretty much change their own oil and filter? I've been reading through this forum as well as the service manual and it seems like the initial task takes a bit of investment on my part.

All investments in tools pay for themselves very very quickly. Usually the first time you use them (depends on the tool, of course).

Have you seen what shop labor rates are?

Besides the financial incentive, greater familiarity with your bike is an excellent reason to spin your own wrenches. Nothing in the world beats understanding your machine.

Tool tips FWIW:

- Buy the maintenance manual. You can also get it online for free if you hunt around. You WILL NEED IT eventually.

- Do not buy cheap-a$$ tools from the dollar store. Ever. Craftsman (Sears) are not the greatest, but they've got a lifetime, no-questions warranty. You break a tool, take it back to the store an they give you a new one. The tool catalog makes good bathroom reading....

- Those unfamiliar with tools routinely overtighten fasteners, and that can be a BAD thing. Buy a decent torque wrench. The click type, not the beam-and-pointer type. It'll cost you a lot, but a stripped-out oil pan or cylinder head is WAY more expensive. Buy quality, buy it once, and be done with it. My Sears digitork is, if I recall, now over 20 years old (they still make the exact same wrench) and paid for itself years ago.

Read the directions. Somebody posted recently (here or on KF) that he thought the torque wrench would let go completely and spin freely when he reached the torque value. So he kept pulling and pulling and pulling... you get the picture. USE YOUR BRAIN. Don't be that guy.

- If you just can't do a torque wrench yet, here's a trick:

When you're tightening the bolt, get the socket (or wrench) on the fastener and shift your grip so you're pulling the wrench with just the tips of one or two fingers. Tighten until you feel significant pressure in your fingertips... say, until the tips of your fingers start to turn pale. Each finger you use is good for about ten foot-pounds.

This is sort of a poor man's torque wrench. The idea is you can only pull the wrench so hard before your fingers pop off. The fewer fingers you've got on it, the lower the torque.

For your drain plug and oil filter cover bolts use two fingers. When you reach torque, STOP! Don't give it "just one more yank to be sure."

This is horribly crude, but it will help prevent you from overtorquing.

BTW, I read somewhere that the reason smaller wrenches are shorter than larger wrenches is to make it harder to overtorque fasteners.

[headshrink]

+1!!!!

[subiegy2010]

I don't understand the point of draining out the perfectly clean oil in the spring. If the bike is not being used all winter, how is the fresh unused oil getting any worse?

[Focus Mike]

Can someone post pictures on how to get to the battery and remove it step by step. I've never maintained a bike before. My old scooter just sat every winter before I sold it and I never had 1 issue with it. Only thing was the battery would completely die. I had a charger and just charged it for 30 minutes and BAM nice and fresh.

[welcome2thedawn]

is there anything that needs to be done if it doesn't get super cold? i am still planning on riding at least once or twice a month through winter...more or less depending on the weather....it never gets super cold here...i just figured i'd start my bike and run it for 15 min or so once a week....is that fine or is there anything else i should do????

[Snake]

If the bike is not going to be stored for the winter and you are going to be periodicly riding and keeping fresh fuel in the tank than there is no need to "winterize". The one thing I would be sure to check is the antifreeze/coolant to make sure the concentration is strong enough in case the temp gets below freezing. 50% anti-freeze and 50% water.

[Momaru]

Might also run some seafoam (~1/4 can) in each tank, to ward off carb gunk just in case it's a little longer than expected between rides.

[Sailariel]

I second what Andrew said. Don`t buy cheap tools----your knuckles will not forgive you. I will add this--If at all possible, avoid adjustable wrenches. They tend to damage fasteners. Torque Wrenches: The best tool you will ever own. The Kawa Factory Shop Manual gives a torque spec. on every fastener on the bike. Invaluable info. Nashbar.com has a 1/4"Drive Torque Wrench with the necessary Allen Head sockets available for $50.00. That little wrench will handle anything on the bike except axles and sprockets. For that I have the same Sears wrench Andrew has. I am a bicycle mechanic. Bicycles are built light and therefore fragile Overtorquing a fastener on a Carbon Fibre frame spells disaster. Ditto on Aluminum, Titanium, Scandium, and Chrome Moly. The best thing anybody contemplating MC mechanics can do, is to first "Demystify" your bike. Go to Barnes&Noble and get a book on basic MC maintenance. A good book to start you would be Hugo Wilson`s "Motorcycle Owner`s Manual" Also it is time well spent to just sit at the computer and read the DIY`s on this forum. I have my old laptop in my shop for that reason. Trust me, We are not talking Rocket Science here.

[headshrink]

Thanks for the encouragement Alex. I am learning that all those statements are more true than I previously realized

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by welcome2thedawn

is there anything that needs to be done if it doesn't get super cold? i am still planning on riding at least once or twice a month through winter...more or less depending on the weather....it never gets super cold here...i just figured i'd start my bike and run it for 15 min or so once a week....is that fine or is there anything else i should do????

Put a battery tender on it.


As far as the tool stuff goes ... I've been a mechanic for 20 years now, I do automotive for a living but have built engines for race sleds and race bikes (I kinda know a little bit of stuff). Most of my tools are snap-on but I do own some craftsman, mac, cornwell... even some crap from wally world and harbor freight. Most important thing I can stress when using a tool on your bike (other than knowing how to use the tool) is that your tool is the correct size and the tool is in good shape. The tips of my screw drivers, my allen bits, torx bits, etc are always in like-new condition. If they get damaged or show signs of wear, I get them replaced. Using an allen wrench that is worn in nice new (lock tite-ed) allen bolt will at least screw the bolt's socket up if not strip it out... just as a worn/damaged tip of a screw driver will tear the head of the screw up and a worn/damaged socket or wrench will bugger up the head of a bolt or a nut. Make sure your tools are in good shape! That said... low cost tools deform much easier and are more prone to cause problems... you really do get what you pay for.

[Focus Mike]

Does anyone have a step by step instruction on how to access the battery on the 09 Ninja 250s?

I would really like to know, how often should I roll the bike around in the garage so I don't get flat spots?

[250Rocket]

Did the dirty deed today. Complete noob and I seemed to have done a good job. Definitely doable if you have a brain.

So far I washed, waxed, lubed the chain changed the oil, put stabil. All I got left is to pull out the battery and drain the carbs but I need some time to do that. I let it run with the Stabil and I just rode it today so i'll do the rest on Christmas break.

2 things. Yes I know you guys hate stabil. Problem is I bought a bottle before reading this and I wasn't about to go on a hunt for a special stabilizer while one rots on my shelf.

and I must say, I put some Motul 5100 and for the 5 minutes I spent riding to get the stabil in the carbs it made the gear changes feel like butter, eliminate 95% of the clunk and it revved much smoother. LOL without changing anything i can tell that the bike runs about 100-200RPM lower when warmed up.

[250Rocket]

Originally Posted by Focus Mike

Does anyone have a step by step instruction on how to access the battery on the 09 Ninja 250s?

I would really like to know, how often should I roll the bike around in the garage so I don't get flat spots?

Page 39 and 40 to remove the seat and 129-134 about the battery. Owner's manual, very very handy. Looking to get the maintenance manual but the basics are covered in the owners manual

[Focus Mike]

I can't find my damn owners manual or bill of sale! GRRRRRR

[250Rocket]

Somebody has a link to an online manual.

But it's simple. Take off the panel with the 1 screw right under the seat, next unscrew the seat and take it off, and voila, access to the battery.

[welcome2thedawn]

uuuhhhhhh...so intended to start my bike once or twice a week through winter and ride on days that it's not too cold or rainy....weeell....i decided that i wanted to learn how to do stuff (like maintenance and such) myself...so i took off the seat and tail and unhooked the tail tail light...in the process i broke my undertail...long story short...fixing my undertail turned out to be the hardest, most time consuming part of the whole thing.....my bike's been sitting since october....so at this point, should i do anything to it? maybe run some seafoam through??? and if so where all does it go...i know how to do it on a car, but not the bike.... thanks

[tinng321]

Do FI bikes have float bowls or the bowls only come on carb bikes?

[adouglas]

A reasonable question, I suppose....

No.

A bowl (and the float in it) is an integral part of a carburetor and is not necessary in a fuel injection system.

The bowl is the direct fuel supply for the carb jet. In a way, it's kind of like the tank on a flush toilet. Water is held in a tank and released into the toilet bowl when you press the lever. In a carb, fuel is held in the bowl and released into the airstream in response to engine vacuum.

The float is connected to a valve that ensures the level of fuel in the bowl is kept constant so the bowl does not overflow (same idea as the float in a toilet tank).

An FI bike works differently. Fuel is squirted directly into the airstream through an injector. The fuel is under pressure, like a garden hose.

Imagine your toilet again... instead of dumping water out of the tank to flush it, you could spray water from a fire hose directly into the bowl and get the same effect. The fire hose is like a fuel injector.

[TrueFader]

any problem with putting it on stands and just warming it up once a week?

[Alex]

It's generally not recommended, as if the engine isn't brought up to operating temp and run under load for awhile, the condensation never gets out of the oil and can quickly break down. If you're changing the oil at the end of the winter before riding again, perhaps that would help that concern. Best way is to just ride all year.

[kamikaze]

well, it's getting cold enough here that it's time to put it away for the winter.

I have a battery tender, can I leave the battery in the bike over the winter with this hooked up, keeping in mind it gets down to -20C and lower on occasion, or should I pull it out and bring it in?

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by subiegy2010

I don't understand the point of draining out the perfectly clean oil in the spring. If the bike is not being used all winter, how is the fresh unused oil getting any worse?

I've been doing this for 2 years now and I still wonder why it's recommended. It seems completely wasteful and just adds more toxic fluids to be disposed of. If you add fresh oil in fall and the bike just sits all winter, what is the point of replacing it again at the start of the riding season?
Someone is probably going to say "condensation" or some such, but I find it hard to believe that the amount of condensation in such a small engine would hve that much effect on unused oil. Or that the oil would somehow "break down" in such a short time.
This "recommendation" has always been suspect to me and even seems to border on OCD behavior. Can anyone provide a solid link or some kind of written proof that this is a good idea? Adding more waste oil to the environment is a bad thing and the benefits of doing so should be based on proven results, not because some people think it's a "good idea".

[headshrink]

The absolute BEST way to winterize your bike is to move to a warmer climate and ride daily!

[BIGT94z]

with work and college i am only able to ride 1 or 2 times a week. i just don't see the point of draining the bowls, fuel treatment ect ect if i ride around the block 2-3 times a month during winter. wouldn't that almost equate to my riding now?

[Talonne]

Just put my bike away for the winter yesterday. Only thing I have to do now is take out the battery and put a cover on it.

Snowing tomorrow...

[ScorpionNinja]

Originally Posted by headshrink

The absolute BEST way to winterize your bike is to move to a warmer climate and ride daily!

Yo, but that is the Most Expensive way!!!

[headshrink]

Still in my mid-season jacket

[Boom King]

Hey everyone, this is my first post in this forum and I want to say I am glad to be a member of this great community of fellow riders. I just bought my first bike about a few weeks ago, a used 2009 Ninja 250r. Of course with winter coming, I am thinking of getting the bike ready for storage. After reading numerous posts on various forums, it seems the greatest common concern is gum and varnish formation of the fuel. With the help of Google, I found this interesting article courtesy of Practical Sailor Magazine (they probably wouldn't sell too many issues if they called it Impractical Sailor); http://www.goldeagle.com/UserFiles/f...icle%20PSL.pdf.

It is a bit of scientific read but it gives a good understanding of what is happening to the fuel inside that tank. It's obviously aimed at marine enthusiasts but other them some key points about 2-stroke engines, fuel is fuel no matter what type of tank it is in. Some key points I gathered from the article:

• The mixture of ethanol in fuel creates a hygroscopic mixture meaning it absorbs water from the air.
• A half full tank can become moisture saturated in as little as 30 days. This is where the rust will occur in your tank. As others have suggested in this thread, fill your gas tank full. If you are going to drain your system empty, you have to be certain it is bone dry.
• Separation of the water from fuel can take as little as a week if the climate is right such as fall weather around The Great Lakes and Northeast.
• None of the fuel stabilizers tested were able to prevent phase separation, only effecting the cleanliness of the separation meaning that some did a better job than others of preventing water, dirt, and fuel deposits from mixing and attaching. This is where the gum and varnish formation happens.
• You want to avoid a fuel stabilizer that uses alcohol as an ingredient, it will not work well with ethanol which is in itself already an alcohol. The last thing you want to do is add more alcohol to your fuel mixture which will make it more hygroscopic. This could be a reason why some people don't have as much success with certain brands of stabilizers. Anyways, before you buy a fuel stabilizer regardless of the colour, read the label and check the ingredients. You can also use this website as a guide. http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_a..._e10_list.html

As for draining the carburetors, I wonder if the reasoning behind keeping your gas tank full also applies for the carburetors. I've read posts where people had bad results such as seals going bad after a season of storage with dry carbs. My guess is that even after draining them, there was probably still some residual moisture and water inside that caused oxidization. I've read many posts where people who have used good quality and proven fuel stabilizers and left the carbs full and had no issues as long as they ran the engine long enough to get the stabilizer into the carbs. I'm thinking that if the idea is to fill your gas tank full so that it will not rust inside then why not the same idea for your carburetors? If you trust the fuel stabilizer to do its job for your gas tank then why not also for the carbs? The internet seems pretty split on this.

All credit is due to the original authors of the article and the above website. I won't claim that I can verify all the tests and results in the article and website are 100% valid and correct but they do give some scientific understanding for what I've already read on numerous forums. As always, use the information provided as a guide and at your own risk as your results may vary.

[kkim]

great first post, Anson.

welcome

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by kkim

great first post, Anson.

welcome

Thanks! Coming from a forum guru like yourself, it is much appreciated.

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by subiegy2010

I don't understand the point of draining out the perfectly clean oil in the spring. If the bike is not being used all winter, how is the fresh unused oil getting any worse?

Originally Posted by TrueFaith

This "recommendation" has always been suspect to me and even seems to border on OCD behavior. Can anyone provide a solid link or some kind of written proof that this is a good idea? Adding more waste oil to the environment is a bad thing and the benefits of doing so should be based on proven results, not because some people think it's a "good idea".

I'm with you on protecting the environment, unfortunately it does seem that engine oil is also hygroscopic to an extent as well. This is the best scientific paper I could find on this: http://www.maintenanceresources.com/...lysis/oa-m.htm by J. C. Fitch and Simeon Jaggernauth.
Again I will not claim that the results and findings of the paper are 100% valid and verified. Read it for what it's worth and make your own decision. Basically moisture can enter engine oil in five different ways:

1. Absorption
2. Condensation
3. Heat Exchangers
4. Combustion/Oxidation/Neutralization
5. Free Water Entry

As you can see from the list, moisture in your oil is a double-edged sword. If you ride your motorcycle or car regularly, the heat produced will help to burn out the moisture. However, whenever you use the engine, moisture can also collect from the Combustion/Oxidation/Neutralization process. I guess this is why in any motorcycle or car owner's manual, you see a maintenance interval of both kms or miles and a time interval of when to change your oil. Basically, even if you don't use your engine, the oil will expire after some time due to the moisture it collects. The question is depending on how long you store your motorcycle and your climate, is the engine oil still good to use when your riding season starts? If you are really concerned about environmental waste, I know there are some places that you can send in an oil sample for testing, albeit at a fee of course. This way though, you can find out if your oil is still good.

This also brings up another good reminder to top off the other important fluids in your motorcycle when you store it; brake fluids and coolant. Brake fluid is also hygroscopic, unless you use DOT 5 which is silicone based and is not recommended for our bikes. If your brake fluids are already a couple of years old, it may be a good time to bleed them out and change them as the moisture collected inside those lines can corrode your brake system or create swells that may burst and leak. You don't want faulty brakes during that long awaited first ride of the season. If you are topping off your brake fluids, I know that the owner's manual says not to mix but you will be ok just to top it off with any DOT 4 brake fluid. Of course, topping it off means only up to the full line. Do not use DOT 5 as it will not mix with the existing brake fluid in our system. Every other owner's manual I've ever read has no mention of requiring to change the whole brake fluid if you just need to top it off. I'm not sure why the Kawasaki manual states this. On all the other forums I've read, people are ok with just topping it off as long as you don't mix in DOT 5 which is not compatible with any other brake fluid.

If you are opening that front brake fluid cap for the first time, be careful as the screws were torqued by machines at the shop/factory. They are difficult to unscrew and you have to apply a lot of downward pressure on the screw to avoid stripping them as they are not made of the highest quality and the Phillips design is easy to strip. Once I unscrewed mine out, I changed them to a hex pattern. The screws are metric machine screws countersunk 4mm x 12mm.

[416ninja]

So I have been getting my bike ready for winter storage. Changed oil/filter, added stabil, filled tank and let the bike get up to temp, removed battery, and then for some reason I thought I had read to set the petcock to prime.

I wasn't sure and am second guessing myself - it looks like leaving it set to prime is a bad idea, because should my float stop operating correctly I will have fuel all over the garage. So aside from moving the petcock back to the on position - do I have to do anything now that the carbs/float bowls are full of fuel?

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by 416ninja

So I have been getting my bike ready for winter storage. Changed oil/filter, added stabil, filled tank and let the bike get up to temp, removed battery, and then for some reason I thought I had read to set the petcock to prime.

I wasn't sure and am second guessing myself - it looks like leaving it set to prime is a bad idea, because should my float stop operating correctly I will have fuel all over the garage. So aside from moving the petcock back to the on position - do I have to do anything now that the carbs/float bowls are full of fuel?

I'd say leaving the petcock on "prime" is a very bad idea for the reasons you mentioned and I've never seen anyone recommending it. I drained the bowls the first year I had my '08 Ninja. The second winter I ran it long enough to make sure the fuel stabilizer had entered the carbs and left them full of fuel. I didn't notice any difference starting the bike the following spring. I don't plan on draining them again as long as my bike is not stored more than 3 months, but if I were storing it longer than that I probably would just for peace of mind.

By the way Boom King, that was an excellent post about adding fresh oil in the spring, but I'm still not convinced the oil breaks down or is infused with moisture enough in a few months that a complete oil change is necessary. Maybe I'd be more concerned if I used a cheap oil, but I'm using Rotella T synthetic and I find it hard to believe a premium oil would break down that much in only a few months. Considering that most people only own a particular bike for a few years before moving up or changing rides, it's hard to imagine that fresh premium-grade oil sitting in a motor uncirculated for only a few months would harm your engine so much. It still seems like overkill and extremely wasteful to me.

[416ninja]

so i should just set the petcock back to on and leave it alone?

[TrueFaith]

Originally Posted by 416ninja

so i should just set the petcock back to on and leave it alone?

Since there's only 2 choices you should leave it in the "on" position.
I'll never understand why someone would make a bike without an "off" position on the petcock. I know Kawi wanted to keep the price down on the 250, but how much could a petcock with an "off" position cost? It's one thing that's always bothered me about the bike.

If you drain the bowls you have to pinch off the fuel line somehow or they'll fill up again. What a PITA.