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Old September 11th, 2011, 05:59 PM   #81
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That is almost too sexy to hide in an engine.
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Old September 11th, 2011, 06:50 PM   #82
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yeah, its so so shiny

i believe that i have been running on the Rich side since the last tuning that i did many many moons ago... so im expecting to find a very Black and un-shiny piston in the bike when we open it, lol
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Old September 12th, 2011, 08:24 AM   #83
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I'm pretty interested in doing on of the big bores on my wifes bike. She had a 650, but the weight and height made it a bit awkward for her as she's only 5'2 with a really short inseam. She loves the 250, but would like a little more power.

I saw the 285 kit that JE makes and understand that you'd have to have new sleeves pressed into the cylinders and have the heads redone for bigger valves. However, how strong is the bottom end in these motors?

Would you be looking at having to redo the rods, cranks and bearings too at that point or would it be pretty reliable still. Also, at 12.5:1 CR would 91 or 93 Octane be enough to keep it from detonating?

Any of you guys with the 265 kit mind sharing your HP/TQ numbers? I was thinking that getting something in the 37-40HP range would be plenty enough to keep her happy.
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Old September 12th, 2011, 09:15 AM   #84
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Also, at 12.5:1 CR would 91 or 93 Octane be enough to keep it from detonating?
Well if it helps any, the pre-gens are 12.4:1 from the factory and run perfectly fine on regular. Never had any sort of detonation that some think you would get. Not sure if the same would apply to the new-gens with the different tuning though.
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Old September 12th, 2011, 09:21 AM   #85
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finally got the parts! wow they look BLING!









but, i still havent gotten around to getting the engine ported, since i wanna get that done 1st to see what the gains are and what the bike can put out with the stock pistons, before upgrading to the 265cc's

will keep updating once i get some progress and results
so nice :O anyword if its adds a kick x]?
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Old September 12th, 2011, 06:50 PM   #86
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picking up the 3 bikes i had at the mechanics soon and then ill drop off the ninjette to get worked on.

i believe to get 37~40 bhp, you will need to do some work on the top end, porting the engine, and have a full exhaust system (possibly pod filters), to improve overall air flow/power.

apparently just using the stock size JE pistons will gain you about 2hp without much modding. but add a good exhaust, port the intake and exhaust, tune the carbs, and you might be getting close to those numbers. however that would cost a lot to do in the states! where as here, the labor costs are not as painful.

ill be getting three dyno runs done again, one before we do any work on it. im quite certain that the power has dropped since i last tuned the bike over a year and a half ago. back then i got 29,8 Bhp peak. (AreaP exhaust, pod filter, BRT CDI, and Sportifi jetkit, being the only power mods i had done)



next step is to get the engine ported, reassembled and carbs retuned, then do another dynorun and check what the gains are, hopefully around 33~34.


last step, bore up. reassemble, retune carbs - set the BRT, etc, and do the last dyno run.

hoping to see 36+Hp when its all done~ ill post the various dyno charts once we get them done.
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Old September 12th, 2011, 10:06 PM   #87
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Watching with great interest. HURRY. Im impatient........
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Old September 13th, 2011, 01:59 AM   #88
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rofl~ its a pain in the ass to loose my bike for a couple weeks... like literally! since ill have to drive my brothers KLX150, and the seat is NOT comfortable at all!

but ya, i cant wait to see the results... after this, there is basically only 1 (well possibly more) mod that i might end up falling prey to, and that's the Sudko CR31 carbs...

but i like to take it step by step, and see how this goes down 1st
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Old September 13th, 2011, 06:05 AM   #89
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With the +2mm overbore, can you use and get good power out of the stock valves? I know the +6mm it requires you to use larger intake and exhaust valves. But if I had the head ported could the stock valves be retained and still make it into the upper 30's HP? Also, can the 13.5:1 be run on premium fuel or does it require race gas?

Rough calculations show that the +6mm at 12.5:1 and the +2mm at 13.5:1 would make pretty close to the same peak HP.

Another thing I had thought about, has anyone ever tried to lighten the stator rotor (flywheel) on these bikes? I used to road race some aircooled Ducati's and that was an easy way to get them to build RPMs and speed a bit faster.
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 01:11 AM   #90
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well here we go~

1st step, engine out!




will try to get pictures once the engine is cracked open
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Last futzed with by wayanlam; September 24th, 2011 at 01:23 AM.
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Old September 23rd, 2011, 02:28 AM   #91
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I. Don't see why you need bigger valves. It is easy to do . But then you need stronger valve springs. This is great though. I have a damaged cylinder from rust. And a burnt valve seat. This mod will use all my damaged parts. I can't wait.
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Old September 24th, 2011, 01:27 AM   #92
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and they cracked the engine up to start porting the intake and exhaust









the pistons are rather dirty from the prolonged rich run, but past the seala its still perfect. goes to prove that the hard brake-in advice i took from MotoMan seems to work good (the brown stuff under the seals are my oily finger smudges, lol)

will try to snap some pics after they port it and before reassembly. even better would be to go there when they are doing the porting, i would love to record it and post it on youtube not sure if ill get the timing tho, with work, etc.

W.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 02:15 AM   #93
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so, the 1st stage of my engine tweaking is complete:





intake and exhaust ports have been worked on to achieve a better flow~

they re-assmebled the engine completely, and tuned it and ran it on the Dyno.

here is the dyno run before the Porting job:



and then this is AFTER porting it:



and here they are overlapped:



from the get go, i feel a considerable increase even at a the lower rpm. at the upper end... weeeeeee... its good! well the little that i was able to push her, since the whole drive back from the workshop there was friken traffic jams, lmao!

i plan to bring the bike back tomorrow or on the week end, just wanted to test out the bike and make sure that its running smoothly before they take it apart again to put in the new pistons

i am really looking forward to see/feel the bike when its all finally done!

cheers,
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Old October 5th, 2011, 08:07 PM   #94
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so you gained almost 5hp from porting the intake/exhaust ports? same carb setup as before they tore it down, jets i mean?
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Old October 5th, 2011, 08:28 PM   #95
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my bike was running rich at the top end (mains were too big), but i was too lazy to take the carbs apart to adjust it, since the bike ran quite well in the lower/mid range, which is what i drive in 80% of the time.

after porting it, they adjusted the jetting correctly, and yeah, gained a significant amount.

im using a sportisi jet kit, that comes with 40 pilot jets, adjustable needles, and a lot of mains to choose from~ i forgot to ask what mains they ended up using this time. its gonna change again shortly, since the bike will get the new pistons, and will have to get re-jetted again, lol
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Old October 5th, 2011, 09:09 PM   #96
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5hp is is pretty good with basically just a port job, with your piston in you should be at the 40+hp mark
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Old October 5th, 2011, 09:13 PM   #97
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thats what im hoping for, but ill just have to wait and see what they can pull off when the time comes
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Old October 5th, 2011, 09:14 PM   #98
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This will be a 265cc when finished?
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Old October 5th, 2011, 09:23 PM   #99
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yeah, the JE pistons i got are 2mm oversize, = 265cc, which is like a 16cc increase. not too significant, but what will also add to the power improvement will be the increased compression ratio, which is rated @ 12.5:1 with these pistons.

there are still more improvements that you can make with the engine, such as ceramic ballbearings, new crank or something i think~ plus the option to lob in a pair of CR31 carbs from SUDCO for example. which would end up being another grand worth of parts if not more... but ill leave those mods alone for now lol, spending more than i should as it is. rofl
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Old October 6th, 2011, 05:48 AM   #100
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how many miles on your motor? are they refreshining anything else while in there? the numbers are pretty good for being a 265cc, especially if it hits over 40hp which it probably will
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Old October 6th, 2011, 06:09 AM   #101
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the pistons are still stock at the moment. i have like 15.000 Km on the bike if im not mistake, around 10k miles.

im not sure what exactly was done besides porting, since i was not able to follow this up in person like i would have liked to, had i not been busy with work i would have spent a couple days at the mechanics, lol

up to now ive always done all the work on the bike myself which i got up to around 32Hp which is the dyno run before they did the porting job.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:48 AM   #102
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Killer...........still watching this with interest.
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Old October 9th, 2011, 07:51 AM   #103
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Killer...........still watching this with interest.
Me 3
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Old October 11th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #104
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Hi there people, I'm from Greece and I registered just to reply to this thread :P

wayanlam go go go man, I'd like very much to see results

I have a ninja 250r '09 (european version, FI and all tha stuff).. the engine broke at about ~9-9.500km(thats about 5592-5903 miles). I think it was from bad service, I left the oil/oil filter change ONE time to the kawasaki center although the service was from certified kawasaki center(and from there I bought the motorcycle) and exactly after oil change it broke me(about 20 minutes after).

Before that I had an agreement with the kawasaki center that I could do oil changes(and oil filter changes) myself and just write on the service book that everything is fine. While I was servicing my ninja everything was great - but to be honest, I was hitting redline all the time and most of the time I was changing gears at about 13.500rpm (at 13.600rpm my ninja is hitting the limit)..don't mention the long trip with a steady 11-12.000rpm all the time.

Anyway'z sorry for the long message, the engine was fixed(covered by kawasaki warranty, its just that I had a honda moped(Honda Astrea Supra - 100cc) and I used to have full throttle all the time without any problems).

P.S. Waiting for results, I wish I could put a bigger engine there.. EX500 sound great but in my town we have bad mechanics.
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Old October 11th, 2011, 01:05 PM   #105
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I can tell you now, it wasn't from the service you received that broke the bike. The motor can handle a lot, that's well know. However, an engine is not going to last long constantly wide open and pegged all the time. Normal cruising rpm for the bike is around 7-9k rpm. You have 6 gears, I suggest you try using them all, that's what they are there for. Shifting should be before 12k and you should NOT be cruising along at 11-12k for long periods of time. Doing that style of riding is what killed your motor, not anything the service department did.

As for your scooter being wide open all the time with no problem as you said. Well most small motors in scooters tend to have a mechanical limiter on them keeping them at a safe maximum rev limit. The ninjette is not built that way and can not be run that way.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 08:12 AM   #106
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i dont quite understand what your broken engine has to do with the big bore kit,

did they explain what was wrong with the engine after they fixed it?

as for the hard riding, if im not mistaken, ive read reports of others driving their lil ninja hard all the time, without any issues. occasionally i push my bike hard too for extended times when i got for a sprinted run around the island, and its always done it flawlessly. but i dont drive that way all the time, since it would just annoy a lot of people and the roads are not good enough nor empty enough to drive that way, hehe
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Old October 12th, 2011, 12:02 PM   #107
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I can tell you now, it wasn't from the service you received that broke the bike. The motor can handle a lot, that's well know. However, an engine is not going to last long constantly wide open and pegged all the time. Normal cruising rpm for the bike is around 7-9k rpm. You have 6 gears, I suggest you try using them all, that's what they are there for. Shifting should be before 12k and you should NOT be cruising along at 11-12k for long periods of time. Doing that style of riding is what killed your motor, not anything the service department did.

As for your scooter being wide open all the time with no problem as you said. Well most small motors in scooters tend to have a mechanical limiter on them keeping them at a safe maximum rev limit. The ninjette is not built that way and can not be run that way.

I meant I'm hitting 11-12k most of the time at 6th gear ..so its the final one. I was thinking of changing sprocket so at full throttle it would have 9-10k and not 11-12k.

wayanlam ..they didn't explained it exactly, the reaction was oh.. thats a first, I've never heard or see a ninja 250r broken but we've found out that the crankshaft was broken(probably the connecting rod, he didn't explain in details and I didn't ask ..I was pissed of for some time :P). Now of course I'm avoiding to reach 12k or if I reach that I don't stay for more than a few seconds, I strictly doing oil/filter changes myself and don't trust anyone. My moped(Honda astrea supra) was tunned and even if it was tunned from 50mm piston to 53.5mm I was always full throttle at any speed(4 gears).. but the piston was 350 Euros(japan made, takekawa).

P.S. Anyway I could create a post and say lot but I really like to see a tuned small ninja. Oh something last before saying more irrelevant things, when my ninja broke I was going at about 160km/h(thats ~100mph). A big white smoke came to my face and oils dropped to the road making me drive like nuts(imagine oil in the back tyre), thankfuly due to experience and VERY GOOD luck..I was able to hold it and after a few meters I stopped, later I saw a small hole in the engine head, a small metal hole. When they came to pick me up, one guy from the service told me that its a usual kawasaki thing to broke like this.. he had a 1000cc ninja that did him the same thing. I'm very happy I don't have a 1000cc engine because if I had the same problem and I was going over 150mph(240km/h) I would be probably in the hospital even if its been more than a year since the incident.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 12:11 PM   #108
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Crakez, if you're going to do the ex500 engine swap, why not do the ninja 400 engine instead? you already have all the components for FI, and the 400cc engine is physically smaller than the ex500 engine
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Old October 12th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #109
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Perhaps you should also consider slowing down. Just a suggestion, but I don't seen the point of running that fast for extended periods of time unless on a track.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 12:35 PM   #110
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I meant I'm hitting 11-12k most of the time at 6th gear ..so its the final one. I was thinking of changing sprocket so at full throttle it would have 9-10k and not 11-12k.

wayanlam ..they didn't explained it exactly, the reaction was oh.. thats a first, I've never heard or see a ninja 250r broken but we've found out that the crankshaft was broken(probably the connecting rod, he didn't explain in details and I didn't ask ..I was pissed of for some time :P). Now of course I'm avoiding to reach 12k or if I reach that I don't stay for more than a few seconds, I strictly doing oil/filter changes myself and don't trust anyone. My moped(Honda astrea supra) was tunned and even if it was tunned from 50mm piston to 53.5mm I was always full throttle at any speed(4 gears).. but the piston was 350 Euros(japan made, takekawa).

P.S. Anyway I could create a post and say lot but I really like to see a tuned small ninja. Oh something last before saying more irrelevant things, when my ninja broke I was going at about 160km/h(thats ~100mph). A big white smoke came to my face and oils dropped to the road making me drive like nuts(imagine oil in the back tyre), thankfuly due to experience and VERY GOOD luck..I was able to hold it and after a few meters I stopped, later I saw a small hole in the engine head, a small metal hole. When they came to pick me up, one guy from the service told me that its a usual kawasaki thing to broke like this.. he had a 1000cc ninja that did him the same thing. I'm very happy I don't have a 1000cc engine because if I had the same problem and I was going over 150mph(240km/h) I would be probably in the hospital even if its been more than a year since the incident.
you needa be on a moped
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Old October 12th, 2011, 01:06 PM   #111
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i dont quite understand what your broken engine has to do with the big bore kit,
You were saying what a good mechanic can do, he was showing what a bad mechanic can do.
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Old October 12th, 2011, 08:41 PM   #112
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^^^

ahhhhh... now i see the connection, good cop bad cop. uh mechanic i meant!

@ Kostas, your really lucky that nothing bad happened... oil on the wheel while going that fast is crazy! we have a 125cc honda supra moped, its what my girlfriend uses, hehe... that thing wont make it past 95~100Km/h. totally unmodified, and has almost 50km on it now. slow and safe

regarding my bike~

it is back with me again, using it till Saturday, then Sunday ill bring it back to my mechanic and he promised to work on the bore up next week for me.

at the same time im gonna do a couple other things too:
*replace rear shock with a GSXR 600 fully adjustable shock,



*change the front fork oil, havent done it since i bought the bike, and its due for a change~

*add Bikerz preload adjusters.



then im gonna try and balance out the back shocks to match the front forks. just watched a heap of youtube vids last night about setting up suspensions... gonna be a whole new experience, and im sure its gonna take quite a few tiral and errors, hehe
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Old October 12th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #113
greatwhiteninja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackez View Post
I meant I'm hitting 11-12k most of the time at 6th gear ..so its the final one. I was thinking of changing sprocket so at full throttle it would have 9-10k and not 11-12k.

wayanlam ..they didn't explained it exactly, the reaction was oh.. thats a first, I've never heard or see a ninja 250r broken but we've found out that the crankshaft was broken(probably the connecting rod, he didn't explain in details and I didn't ask ..I was pissed of for some time :P). Now of course I'm avoiding to reach 12k or if I reach that I don't stay for more than a few seconds, I strictly doing oil/filter changes myself and don't trust anyone. My moped(Honda astrea supra) was tunned and even if it was tunned from 50mm piston to 53.5mm I was always full throttle at any speed(4 gears).. but the piston was 350 Euros(japan made, takekawa).

P.S. Anyway I could create a post and say lot but I really like to see a tuned small ninja. Oh something last before saying more irrelevant things, when my ninja broke I was going at about 160km/h(thats ~100mph). A big white smoke came to my face and oils dropped to the road making me drive like nuts(imagine oil in the back tyre), thankfuly due to experience and VERY GOOD luck..I was able to hold it and after a few meters I stopped, later I saw a small hole in the engine head, a small metal hole. When they came to pick me up, one guy from the service told me that its a usual kawasaki thing to broke like this.. he had a 1000cc ninja that did him the same thing. I'm very happy I don't have a 1000cc engine because if I had the same problem and I was going over 150mph(240km/h) I would be probably in the hospital even if its been more than a year since the incident.
I ride mine all the time 10-13k lol..hell I was shifting the other day at 14k ! 2500 miles on the clock but its running strong
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Old October 12th, 2011, 09:37 PM   #114
wayanlam
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unless you have an after market CDI, you cant be switching at 14k.

if im not mistaken, the stock CDI is set to cut off at 13.500 Rpm (thats when you hit the limiter and the bike goes pop~pop~pop~pop~pop.... lol)

however, the stock cdi/speedo give false readings~ which is why you think your up at 14k rpm

i have my programmable cdi set to 14.5 or 15.5k (forgot...) but either way, i never hit the limiter now, since i aim to switch at around 13.5~14k rpm. since at that point the power starts to taper off (visible on the Dyno chart )
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Old October 12th, 2011, 11:57 PM   #115
crackez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayanlam View Post
unless you have an after market CDI, you cant be switching at 14k.

if im not mistaken, the stock CDI is set to cut off at 13.500 Rpm (thats when you hit the limiter and the bike goes pop~pop~pop~pop~pop.... lol)

however, the stock cdi/speedo give false readings~ which is why you think your up at 14k rpm

i have my programmable cdi set to 14.5 or 15.5k (forgot...) but either way, i never hit the limiter now, since i aim to switch at around 13.5~14k rpm. since at that point the power starts to taper off (visible on the Dyno chart )


So true.. at least for my FI ninja the 13.600 is a limit, I cannot pass that and never did, thats why I was changing gears at about 13.400-13.500. Damn in my town we have bad mechanics and its not only that they charge a fortune. When I had my moped I was able to change piston, head, cylinder myself..but I don't dare to do the same with the ninja. choneofakind we don't have any people to do any engine change..except the exactly same engine :P ..and kawasaki doesn't offer a ninja 400r in my country so finding a engine can be difficult

P.S. I wanted a 400-500cc sport motorcycle but in my country we have ninja 250r and after that 600cc sports bike nothing between, it was way too much to change from a moped 100cc(111.22cc tuned :P) to a 600cc(imagine 8bhp the moped, 120bhp a cbr 600), so the ninja 250r was just about right because there wasn't any other option. In the beginning it forgive my gear change-mistakes(that was Summer 2009 :P). Now in 2011 we have also in Greece honda cbr b250r(which sucks and costs more.. singe piston)

Anyway, although I couldn't do an engine change and don't trust them for changing any inside engine part(bad mechanics or lazy? dunno)..have we have any news about the tunned ninja?
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Old October 13th, 2011, 02:00 AM   #116
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Kostas, what you can do to keep it relatively simple, but still get a nice increase in power would be:

* get the 12.5:1 compression 249cc JE piston (no need to bore up, just plug and play) they also have 13:1 compression piston, but you need to run high octane fuel.

* get a juice box / power commander, and adjust the timing and fuel delivery of your injectors (IF model)

* a good exhaust. if i had to choose any exhaust now, i would get the AreaP racing exhaust:


i would love to get this exhaust, but there are 2 problems for me... no pasanger foot peg, so GF would not be happy, and i already have an AP exhaust and my GF would be doubly not be happy if i spend more money for something that i sort of already have, LOL...

* wide band AF Sensor, so you can tune the bike without having to go to a Dyno.

* Open air filter such as K&N (maybe if removing snorkel is not enough)

hmm... that's about it for starters should keep you busy for a while~
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Old October 14th, 2011, 05:12 PM   #117
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I don't know if its worth doing that.. I mean 13:1 compression? hmmm, after the "accident" I'm not very convinced that the engine can handle it very well. I mean there is no point of putting bigger piston and run it low and slow :P

Power commander? hmm, eventually if I put a power commander, full exhaust, pistons(~350 euros), filter K&N and 2-3 more stuff we are talking about lot of money. Why don't you sell the ninja 250r put 3-4k and buy a brand new at ~600cc it would cost you about the same and except that it would be stock it would have about 160-180% more power :P

P.S. I don't know about you guys but here a power commander, an exhaust and air filter from K&N are way too expensive and I'm having seconds thought on buying them, I mean if I get 2-3hp for all this its not worth it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wayanlam View Post
Kostas, what you can do to keep it relatively simple, but still get a nice increase in power would be:

* get the 12.5:1 compression 249cc JE piston (no need to bore up, just plug and play) they also have 13:1 compression piston, but you need to run high octane fuel.

* get a juice box / power commander, and adjust the timing and fuel delivery of your injectors (IF model)

* a good exhaust. if i had to choose any exhaust now, i would get the AreaP racing exhaust:


i would love to get this exhaust, but there are 2 problems for me... no pasanger foot peg, so GF would not be happy, and i already have an AP exhaust and my GF would be doubly not be happy if i spend more money for something that i sort of already have, LOL...

* wide band AF Sensor, so you can tune the bike without having to go to a Dyno.

* Open air filter such as K&N (maybe if removing snorkel is not enough)

hmm... that's about it for starters should keep you busy for a while~
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Old October 14th, 2011, 06:28 PM   #118
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its all relative to where you live and what situation you are in

here in indo, the new ninja 600R costs 225.000.000 Rp = almost 26.000 USD.

while the ninja 250 now costs like 55.000.000 Rp = 6.250 USD.

we could buy 4 small ninjas for the price of one 600cc

so far my power mods that have gained me about 10Hp has cost me:

* $1000 for the AreaP exhaust (import tax literraly raped me there... got charged almost 50% on top) - install free
* $100 for K&N filter - install free
* $100 for a Jet kit - install free
* $100 - 200 for the porting - done by the mechanic (haven't paid yet, gonna get one fat bill when the bore up has been done too... lol)
-----------------
$1300 ~ 1400 total so far~

then im still doing the bore up:
* $335 for the JE pistons
* $100~200 for the bore up to 265cc.
--------------
$435 ~ 535 once thats done..

and im hoping to get another 3~5 Hp with this hopefully.

gran total is somewhere around 2k USD... never added this up till now actually, looks expensive now, haha, but i paid it all in small bits, so it did not feel as bad as it looks on the wallet.

ive spent about $860 on other various mods as well... and i dont even have a full ninja, running her naked since i crashed a couple months ago


that was was a pic while i was still installing the new headlamp. i have a 60/55W bulb in that reflector, and its even brighter than the original headlight! sort of tempted to put in a HID, but its actually bright enough as it is hehe~

so back to your comment Kostas, yes, if you can buy a bigger bike for not that much more, and you are confident that you wont kill yourself with 160~180% power increase... do it

drive safe and have a fun week end!
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Old October 16th, 2011, 02:42 AM   #119
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the 1st bike with the big bore kit was finished on friday~ not my bike, anothers.

the results are looking good!





thats the bike~

and the dyno:

theirs


theirs + mine

there is a drawback on that other bikes power curve, and that is the rather noticable drop between 8500 and 11000 Rpm, where its actually below mine. then after 11k it jumps over my curve real fast.

where my torque curve stays strong going up all the way till 10k, and then gradually tapering off, the other bike has a big dip, and then it comes back up~ definitely needs some more tweaking done to clean that out.

im hoping that my bike will have a better curve, like keep what i have now, and increase some more in the upper range~ i like having a smooth curve

that other bikes about to change out their cam rod too, but that's gonna get done later on, i think the owner is taking the bike out for a while to test drive it, hehe...
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Old October 17th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #120
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For the track I would take his....for the street I would take yours in a New York min. When are we going to see the pistons in yours and a dyno sheet??
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