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Old June 15th, 2016, 12:19 AM   #1
Yakaru
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1 thing I don't understand about track photographers (#1 will blow your mind)

Okay, this is a bit of a rant.

I don't understand why track photographers work the way they do. Now that I've been to some track days, have gone to CSS a number of times, and talked with a few people who've gone to other organizations there seems to be a consistent pattern:

Photographers get out for the first few sessions and then skip the end of the day.

This really bugs me. The start of the day is when you're at your most conservative, when you're feeling things out, when your lines aren't right yet. If you're only going to photograph for half the day, I'd rather it be the second half.

Now, I understand some reasons for this -- photographers who sell 'on site' often use the back half of the day to process and display the photos to riders so they can make some sales. It makes sense. But it still bothers me. I'm not sure what to do about it though. Should I talk to the photographers about it? I don't want to be a bitch or anything.

Sorry, ramble over.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 12:28 AM   #2
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Yakaru, you just haven't been to a track with a really great photographer. One that shoots every session and sets up 3 flat screen terminals for you to preview what they have taken before you buy them AND has an assistant for planned really busy days.

Photography is an art, and sometimes... artists are fickle.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 02:33 AM   #3
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Depends. The photographer at NYST, 572 Creations, usually shoots every session every day. Hard work.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 05:02 AM   #4
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It has been a bit of a mixed bag in my experience as well. I have had days where every session was well represented and nearly every rider had some good pics, and other times I literally have been on track the whole day and only had two or three not so great pics snapped. Sometimes even with the same photographer lol.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 05:32 AM   #5
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Some of these guys just do this for "fun", so I wouldn't expect consistent performances.
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Old June 15th, 2016, 07:13 PM   #6
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All I know is my boy Dave is out taken photos from the morning meeting until the end of the day always

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Old June 16th, 2016, 06:36 AM   #7
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Sorry you had a crappy experience with them. The guy that does our race photos is there before the racers and is one of the last to leave!
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Old June 16th, 2016, 06:44 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by RacinNinja View Post
Sorry you had a crappy experience with them. The guy that does our race photos is there before the racers and is one of the last to leave!
That's the guy you want.

The light is going to be the best early and late in the day. Mid-day it's ugly.

When I was shooting races I wouldn't even bother shooting around noontime unless it was heavily overcast, then it was fine. That was back in the day of manual-focus cameras and slide film. I was also shooting Black and White film (anyone remember that?) at times, and that gave you more time to shoot if the light wasn't great because you could easily adjust the contrast.

I've got a couple B&W shots from back-in-the-day (Kenny Roberts Jr on the left, Aussie Robbie Peterson on the right, signed drawing of KR's OW-35K in the middle) in my office.

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Old June 17th, 2016, 06:12 AM   #9
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Like the others have said, it really is dependent on the photographer. Part of it is also dependent on the riders, but that is kind of a chicken and egg conundrum. If the riders don't buy pictures a lot, then the photographer can't recoup their costs for things like an assistant, displays, etc.

For the smaller operations, they may feel like they really need the afternoon to process for on-site sales or else they won't make any money.

In concept, I definitely agree with you that photographers should be shooting the afternoon sessions. You can always try riding with different trackday groups and seeing who has the best photographers.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 05:37 AM   #10
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It is, in part, economics. A lot of riders skip the last session of the day, and many skip the last two. Not everyone buys photos to begin with. So the return on the photog's time and hard work is lower.

Fatigue.... I've flagged a couple of days, and it is a LONG and tiring day. Riders get to have a nice 40-45 minute break out of every hour. Not the photographer. Has to stand out in the sun, lug gear to different locations, and focus on taking thousands of good shots... all day long.

Then there's the time thing. Tracks want people GONE asap after the last session wraps up. The photog has to get back, pack up and vacate no later than the riders. Yet the riders in the last session are back while the photog is still out there. For someone who doesn't set up all the computers in the garage, this is less of a deal, but likely still a factor.

I agree with you, though, on the first session. Total waste of time.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 08:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Yakaru, you just haven't been to a track with a really great photographer. One that shoots every session and sets up 3 flat screen terminals for you to preview what they have taken before you buy them AND has an assistant for planned really busy days.

Photography is an art, and sometimes... artists are fickle.
Well, your photographer needs to step it up, ours at Chuckwalla has 6 screens.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 11:11 AM   #12
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MOTM - Jun '16
Haha, apparently my experience hasn't been as universal as everyone else's. I'll see about talking to the photographers at my track days and school sessions to see if there's anything we can do.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 11:33 AM   #13
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I have yet to meet a photog that won't accept an exclusive commission for whatever you want!
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Old June 18th, 2016, 12:26 PM   #14
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I have yet to meet a photog that won't accept an exclusive commission for whatever you want!
I bought a season package from mine. Minimum 30 pics per weekend, full race season, $250 (or 300), can't quite remember. Helluva deal!
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Old June 18th, 2016, 01:06 PM   #15
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I found there was a difference in the pictures from start of season to end of season and year to year. I have hundreds of pictures and spent many hundreds on pictures!) that are virtually identical day to day and track day to track day! The great (and improved!) photos come when you improve! Not missed because the photographer missed the last session or two!
And nothing improves your photos like forgetting the photographer is there! Target fixation!
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Old June 18th, 2016, 02:38 PM   #16
Yakaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWn60 View Post
I found there was a difference in the pictures from start of season to end of season and year to year. I have hundreds of pictures and spent many hundreds on pictures!) that are virtually identical day to day and track day to track day! The great (and improved!) photos come when you improve! Not missed because the photographer missed the last session or two!
And nothing improves your photos like forgetting the photographer is there! Target fixation!
Haha, well, I find for the first few sessions I'm going quite easy on things and feeling my way out more than anything. First session in particular is almost 100% familiarizing myself with the track even if I've ridden it before. I didn't realize there were no later session photos until they were posted online for purchase and had none from 4-7 which were the photos I was looking forward to seeing/analyzing.
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Old June 18th, 2016, 02:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakaru View Post
Haha, well, I find for the first few sessions I'm going quite easy on things and feeling my way out more than anything. First session in particular is almost 100% familiarizing myself with the track even if I've ridden it before. I didn't realize there were no later session photos until they were posted online for purchase and had none from 4-7 which were the photos I was looking forward to seeing/analyzing.
The stills are for glory, the video for learning (imo) and you've got that covered!
And make no mistake: I have almost every picture ever snapped of me on a motorcycle so there's no critique in my comments!!!
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Old June 19th, 2016, 07:52 PM   #18
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I've got a couple B&W shots from back-in-the-day (Kenny Roberts Jr on the left, Aussie Robbie Peterson on the right, signed drawing of KR's OW-35K in the middle) in my office.

Wait a sec.....that is your office?
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Old June 19th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #19
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At a local (MX) track the photographer will only shoot the first little bit, they start riding. I normally haven't even warmed up by the time he starts shooting.

My friend sometimes takes photos during his break, but he's not a pro photographer, and most of his shots don't quite have the best timing. I have an example of when I was in second chasing down another friend (railed the hell out of the corner, but its an ok shot because its the exit of the corner, I already put my foot on the peg, started meaning the bike back up, twisted the throttle on, and am preparing for the double).

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Old June 20th, 2016, 06:37 AM   #20
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Wait a sec.....that is your office?
Yup.
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Old June 20th, 2016, 06:58 AM   #21
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Yup.
***threadjack****

where do you work?
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Old June 20th, 2016, 07:03 AM   #22
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***threadjack****

where do you work?
I own this business - www.apexcustomcoating.com, but I worked as a professional magazine photographer at one point (that's why I chimed-in about track photographers).
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Old June 20th, 2016, 10:47 AM   #23
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Sweet office!!!
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