R.I.P, Close friend made a very bad choice.

[fleemos]

RIP Josh. This is is terrible, please be safe everybody.

I have had a drinks and then ridden home but it has to be the bar half a mile from my apartment. I always stop drinking at least an hour before I leave and switch over to water. I know it's still not the safest thing in the world but it's considerably lower risk than trying to go for miles.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by fleemos

RIP Josh. This is is terrible, please be safe everybody.

I have had a drinks and then ridden home but it has to be the bar half a mile from my apartment. I always stop drinking at least an hour before I leave and switch over to water. I know it's still not the safest thing in the world but it's considerably lower risk than trying to go for miles.

If its only a half mile, why not just walk?

[Whiskey]

RIP

Originally Posted by fleemos

RIP Josh. This is is terrible, please be safe everybody.

I have had a drinks and then ridden home but it has to be the bar half a mile from my apartment. I always stop drinking at least an hour before I leave and switch over to water. I know it's still not the safest thing in the world but it's considerably lower risk than trying to go for miles.

Half a mile, is that really too far to walk?
Me & the rest of my unit used run that, in formation, in our civvies, just to get to the bar earlier so we didn't lose valuable drinking time

Leave the bike at home & don't be a ****ing idiot.

I've hopped on once after a few drinks (finished drinking at 2:30 got on the bike at 7:30) thinking I'd sobered up enough, I got off the bike thinking never again, there was no way I was fit to ride it.

[fleemos]

On the way home so I just stop there. I'm ot exactly a heavy drinker either, 2-3 beers and I stop at least an hour before I leave.

[n4mwd]

Ride home, walk back. That way you don't have to worry about some drunk backing over your bike.

[DeviantTurtle]

Personally I don’t even think of drinking anything with alcohol if I know I will be operating any type of machinery, does not matter if it is on or off road.

[Firehorse]

Wow, this is so horrible. Sorry for your loss. Condolences to you and the other families involved. Took a lot of guts to post this knowing some people would bash your friend. Thanks.

No finger wagging here but what if we try to chill out our fellow riders who take too many chances on the street? Maybe that's a lesson for all of us who ride with people who may have a bit of a wild side? Encourage them to take it to the track?
If it was your close friend, how would you try to keep your friend safe? No one can tell someone else how to ride but we can speak up while they're still with us to hear.

As a ninjette forum we do a good job encouraging new riders to buy gear etc, maybe we should stress the skills and responsibility bit more. Probably a little less cop bashing would help too. Being pulled over can put you in the good books too, depends how you do it. Bike off,helmet off and shut up. Just say have a good night officer and be on your way - WTF would that hurt?
The biker attitude of the 1960's F**K the Pigs is old and paranoid. They're just doing their job even though some of them suck at it.

Sorry, just rambling trying to think of a way we can learn something from this tragedy. Ride safe people, it's not a race unless you're on the track.

[n4mwd]

Regarding being paranoid, I gotta say that when you are riding a bike, being paranoid is a good thing. Off the bike is a different story. The last thing you want to do is trust another motorist to do the right thing. Most other motorists will do the right thing, but it only takes one bad one to send you to your grave.

First off, the assumption is that this was a DUI check point and that the rider had been drinking. This could very well have been a motorcycle-only checkpoint in which cops pull over and badger motorcyclists while letting cagers pass on their merry way.

Second off, and assuming this was a DUI checkpoint, I have to say that I'm really on the fence with these. In this particular case, there is a good chance that if the checkpoint was not there, Josh would not have run it or would have been going as fast as he was. In this case, the presence of the checkpoint caused a biker to die - even though its also a valid argument that he wouldn't have died if he had obeyed the law and stopped. Furthermore, its also a good argument against having more HP than skill.

But while I am totally against drunk driving, I have to wonder if cops could do a better job of protecting the public if they enacted programs to prevent drunk driving rather than to deal with it once it already happens.

The fact is that ANY amount of alcohol impairs a person's driving/riding skills. So the 0.08% limit is total BS. Still, the higher it goes, the more impaired a person becomes. I think it would be a good thing if alcohol wholesalers had to tape a single use breathalyzer to every purchase. That way, when people drink, they don't have to guess when they get into their cars.

[ai4px]

I've snipped some of your words in the quote above, no intent for what I've left to be taken out of context.... That said...

Originally Posted by n4mwd

This could very well have been a motorcycle-only checkpoint in which cops pull over and badger motorcyclists while letting cagers pass on their merry way.

Never heard of this kind of checkpoint. Everyone I've been through has always stopped every vehicle. Good to know though.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Second off, and assuming this was a DUI checkpoint..... the presence of the checkpoint caused a biker to die

This biker died as a result of his willingness to flaunt the law and run a checkpoint. I can't blame the checkpoint. It's akin to blaming guns for murders.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

But while I am totally against drunk driving, I have to wonder if cops could do a better job of protecting the public if they enacted programs to prevent drunk driving rather than to deal with it once it already happens.

The simple fact is, the DUI checkpoint actually stops people before they hit something / someone.... assuming they don't run. I'm not sure what else the cops could do to prevent drunk driving. Let's see, the NHTSA could require all cars sold after 2013 to have breathalyzer interlocks, but that's not practical. I think the DUI checkpoints are a good balance between the police simply waiting around to get called to DUI accidents vs an oppressive government regulation.

Stiffer DUI penalties might work... the penalties we presently have involve license suspension and jail time on subsequent offenses, but I still hear about LOTS of people driving suspended and with no insurance around these parts. One of the smartest things the state of SC did was to allow people with suspended licenses the ability to drive only a moped. There is no public transit here and at least the "liquor cycle" allows you to get to work instead of forcing people to break the law by driving a car. Personally, I think the DUI laws are about where they need to be... what we need is to put the screws to people who drive suspended.

I kinda got side tracked into DUI cases, but I do not assume the biker in this thread was drinking. This guy ran and in doing so endangered his own life and the lives of others. We just have to accept that there are people who don't hold the same priorities as we do. We don't live in an ideal world.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by ai4px

Never heard of this kind of checkpoint. Everyone I've been through has always stopped every vehicle. Good to know though.

Motorcycle Only Checkpoints - Are just a way to shake down bikers in a prejudicial manner. Officially its for random safety inspections. My point is that if they stop one vehicle, then they should stop them all. This is no different than stopping people based on race.

the NHTSA could require all cars sold after 2013 to have breathalyzer interlocks, but that's not practical.

That's really not a bad idea. I know they are expensive now, but if the volume went up the cost would come down. Handheld breathalyzers are going for about $30. In any case, after a first DUI offense, an interlock should be mandatory for life.

But putting things back into perspective, and I am in no way endorsing drunk driving, but if a cager drives drunk, he is highly likely to kill someone else and if a biker rides drunk, he is more likely to kill himself. I think the law should differentiate between the two. That is, penalties that take into consideration the killing potential of the the vehicle driven.

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Regarding being paranoid, I gotta say that when you are riding a bike, being paranoid is a good thing.

Me Too!

I meant paranoid of the police. Some people think that the police are always after them because they ride a bike. ?? Gimme a break. One cop told me that the best way to keep them away is not to stand out - "Don't make me notice you." Kinda makes sense. The bikers I hear about being pulled over are speeding, stunting, drinking or somehow acting dangerously around innocent bystanders. If that's not you, then no worries.

If the checkpoint stopped bikers only - debated but whatever - and they had low numbers or no numbers of incidents, the checkpoint would not exist.

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

That is, penalties that take into consideration the killing potential of the the vehicle driven.

What??? Make no sense at all, dude that steals a tank when he gets drunk on the base and dude that walks down the sidewalk drunk and knifes someone or strangles them with his bare hands?
Nope, don't buy it.
Personal responsibility. We lose too many people to drunks of all kinds but all of them should rot in jail. Nothing against drinking since I have a lovely glass of wine in front of me but it all boils down to personal responsibility - if you want to live in society, you have to follow the average normal. Sometimes it sucks but it's to the benefit of the masses.

And remember, Josh may not have had a drop, he lost his life for only reasons he knows and his death affected lots of people that loved him. We don't really know do we?

[Firehorse]

Originally Posted by ai4px

I
One of the smartest things the state of SC did was to allow people with suspended licenses the ability to drive only a moped. There is no public transit here and at least the "liquor cycle" allows you to get to work instead of forcing people to break the law by driving a car. Personally, I think the DUI laws are about where they need to be... what we need is to put the screws to people who drive suspended.

That's pretty brilliant. Keeps people in trouble working and off the welfare spiral too.
I'm all for the screws and same for people that have no insurance and hit someone.

[aj387]

I was Josh's girlfriend for 8 years and all I can say is some people are so ruthless... Why do some not care about how not only do we have to live with Josh's ****** choices, but now we also have to live with some of your ****** (unnecessary) opinions. Josh was far from perfect, but I love him and this is a big deal to me...my entire life is forever changed. Right after Josh died my mom told me " Get ready, your feelings are about to be hurt." She was right!!!

[psych0hans]

Originally Posted by aj387

I was Josh's girlfriend for 8 years and all I can say is some people are so ruthless... Why do some not care about how not only do we have to live with Josh's ****** choices, but now we also have to live with some of your ****** (unnecessary) opinions. Josh was far from perfect, but I love him and this is a big deal to me...my entire life is forever changed. Right after Josh died my mom told me " Get ready, your feelings are about to be hurt." She was right!!!

Hi Andrea, I know this means little now, but I truly am very sorry for your loss. Don't read into every comment in this thread, because for most people typing something on the internet is very impersonal and they don't realize that just because its not personal for them, doesn't mean its not personal for someone else. I'm sure Josh was a great guy who just made that one huge mistake and paid dearly for it. I hope time will bring you peace and solace. God Speed!

[ninjamunky85]

+1 Well said Hans.

[deeno415]

This is truly sad! Sorry for your loss brotha... my prayers go out to those affected.

R.I.P. Josh

[KawiKid860]

RIP

[gantt]

So sorry to read this. it only takes one mistake and its over. i used to drink a lot. I actually preferred the bike because the chance of getting stopped is lower. I tried to avoid a deer one night about 1am. used the rear brake and lost the back tire in a turn. i hit a tree and took some bark of them with my shoulder and helmet. i was traveling around 85 mph when it happened. probably still going about 60 when i left the road. i should have died from that. It took me a year before i drank again and never behind the wheel. it is scary how close i came to leaving my wife and family at the age of 23. It was a wake-up call.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by aj387

I was Josh's girlfriend for 8 years and all I can say is some people are so ruthless... Why do some not care about how not only do we have to live with Josh's ****** choices, but now we also have to live with some of your ****** (unnecessary) opinions. Josh was far from perfect, but I love him and this is a big deal to me...my entire life is forever changed. Right after Josh died my mom told me " Get ready, your feelings are about to be hurt." She was right!!!

Hi Andrea,

Sorry for your loss. Sometimes we bikers can seem harsh, but all we are trying to do is post analyze the accident so that we don't make the same mistakes. It may seem like we are picking Josh's bones, but we are really trying to figure out how to keep the same thing from happening to us. It would help if you could tell us the answers to some questions not in the publicized reports. Questions like:

1. Was Josh drinking and if there was any test done regarding blood alcohol content and if so what were the results? The news article said that his friend, not Josh, was under the influence.

2. Was the checkpoint a "motorcycle only" checkpoint (which they have in Georgia) or a checkpoint for all vehicles?

3. Reports said that Josh went under the vehicle. Do you know if he was trapped under it, or if he slid under and out to the other side?

4. Was he wearing a helmet? At that speed of impact, a helmet isn't going to help much, but it can in certain circumstances.

Again, sorry for your loss.

[sharky nrk]

Very sad for another rider to lose their life, regardless of the circumstances. When substance abuse of any kind is involved the likelihood of something bad happening goes up exponentially.

This is the exact reason why you do not ride that aggressively on the street like that, and I stand by that statement regardless of if it is unpopular or not. If I want my speed I take it to the race track.

Street is always a sedate pace, with PLENTY in reserve.

[aeroblade]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Hi Andrea,

Sorry for your loss. Sometimes we bikers can seem harsh, but all we are trying to do is post analyze the accident so that we don't make the same mistakes. It may seem like we are picking Josh's bones, but we are really trying to figure out how to keep the same thing from happening to us.

+1

It would help if you could tell us the answers to some questions not in the publicized reports. Questions like:

1. Was Josh drinking and if there was any test done regarding blood alcohol content and if so what were the results? The news article said that his friend, not Josh, was under the influence.

2. Was the checkpoint a "motorcycle only" checkpoint (which they have in Georgia) or a checkpoint for all vehicles?

3. Reports said that Josh went under the vehicle. Do you know if he was trapped under it, or if he slid under and out to the other side?

4. Was he wearing a helmet? At that speed of impact, a helmet isn't going to help much, but it can in certain circumstances.

Again, sorry for your loss.

Dude,.. not cool...

[Rugby Winger]

People will be badasses over the internet. It's obvious where it went wrong but criticizing the dead is cowardly because they can't defend their actions even as indefensible it may seem.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by aeroblade

Dude,.. not cool...

Sorry, but they are honest questions that nobody has answered with any authority. There have plenty of "assumptions", but until we hear the actual facts from someone who has first hand knowledge, its just guessing on our part.

I know that talking about these things can be difficult after losing someone and it is in no way an attempt to belittle Josh in any way. We all make mistakes, but we can learn from others mistakes as well as our own. However, we need the facts and not assumptions.

But the point is, Josh isn't the only one who might have reacted that way.

[aeroblade]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Sorry, but they are honest questions that nobody has answered with any authority. There have plenty of "assumptions", but until we hear the actual facts from someone who has first hand knowledge, its just guessing on our part.

I know that talking about these things can be difficult after losing someone and it is in no way an attempt to belittle Josh in any way. We all make mistakes, but we can learn from others mistakes as well as our own. However, we need the facts and not assumptions.

But the point is, Josh isn't the only one who might have reacted that way.

I know you didn't mean any offense brother, but asking her if he was drunk or if he went under the truck and all... I just don't feel she should be put in that spot tis all.

and it was just a bit too blunt...

[Alex]

/closed