Ninja 250R 08 big bore kit

[wayanlam]

the mechanic promised to have it done by Thursday this week. about to pass by later today to see how its coming along.

while the bike is there, we are gonna change out oil in the front forks, its due a change. and replace the brake oil with some DOT4. gonna try and balance out the front and rear suspension once its all reassembled. hope the lack of weight from having no farings wont affect the front suspension in a negative way. might buy a pre-load adjuster if i find that the front shocks are too soft~hard

the back shocks are totally adjustable now that i have GSXR shock in there:


but again, i hope the bike weighs enough to give the suspension enough static sag. without the engine block, it was way too stiff when i hopped on the bike to make sure it was all bolted tight, after reassembling it.

[crackez]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

theirs

I want that power! :P

@wayanlam Here in Greece a ninja 250r costs 4.750(thats how much I paid) but a 600cc sport bike costs 9-11.000 euros about the double but you have more than double power

to compare ninja 250r(EU mode) has 33ps and a cbr 600rr has 120ps

[Racer x]

The 40hp barrier MUST be broken. I contacted my engine builder. I want to go to the 282 kit with 13.5 to 1. Bigger valves and my Brt ignition with CR Special carbs should do it. Ballancing will be requiered when adding the heavy pistons.The critical part will be proper springs for the bigger valves. So this is really not a do it myself thing.

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by Racer x

The 40hp barrier MUST be broken.

yas! i agree

i was tempted to get the 285cc kit, but you need new sleeves, and thats just too much work to get the right ones from all the way here, when i wasnt sure what what sleeve i needed to get.

also when i bought my 265cc kit, they they only had the 12.5:1 version. i then looked at their list 2 weeks later, and saw that they were releasing the 13.5:1... meh!~ but anyhow, i think its better i went with the lower compression, since we cant get high octane fuel here.

post up your big bore kit conversion when you get started on it

[Racer x]

YES the 285 needs sleeves. So I will not be doing I myself. I have full access to race gas up to 118 octane.I will definitly post up progress. And results from the dyno and the track.But things move VERY slow with this sort of thing.I am hopeing for early next year fo completion.

[wayanlam]

and i thought waiting 1 week for my bore up was already slow, haha :P

target is saturday now, just went by the mechanic eralier today, he was still busy with some other bikes~ as usual, rofl

[greatwhiteninja]

the ninja 500's only laydown about 50whp right?? this is awesome to be close to a 500's hp with a 265cc im sure for anyone willing to spend the $$ a few grand and a good shop that knows what there doing these #'s wouldnt be to hard to achieve here in the US.. assuming your going in with all supporting mods like exhaust/jets/pods..

[Racer x]

I have all ready spent the money for this .But was just going stock bore. But with the prospect for 40+ hp I can't pass it up. I have Carillo rods allready made and the parts are allready going out for ballance. Sleveing and pistons will cost less than 500 dollars I hope.

[crackez]

Originally Posted by Racer x

The 40hp barrier MUST be broken. I contacted my engine builder. I want to go to the 282 kit with 13.5 to 1. Bigger valves and my Brt ignition with CR Special carbs should do it. Ballancing will be requiered when adding the heavy pistons.The critical part will be proper springs for the bigger valves. So this is really not a do it myself thing.

I would like either to have this kit(if we had good mechanics here and know exactly what they are doing) ..or to build the ninja based on electric motor(this one would probably cost more than 3.000 USD but it will worth every penny due to huge savings on gas)

P.S. if I tell to our mechanics about tear appart the engine and put big bore change valve springs, valves etc.. first they would do a messy job and after a few kilometers the engine would be dead and they would tell me.. "its natural.. having it stock is better" ..and stuff like, I told you not to tune the engine..just buy another, we can sell you this this this..

[Racer x]

Developing an engine to double the power requiers a machinest .Not a mechanic. The mechanic put the engine in the bike that the machinest built. Then the tuner uses a dyno to make the proper adjustments . Having someone without experence with THIS engine will result in failure. The margin of error at over 14000 RPM is small. The number of things that can go wrong is large.

[Racer x]

I was able to get on the web and the phone today.I found a local machine shop that can do the work for me. I will build the engine. But I need to have the engine bored and the crank balanced plus some head repair.
I will do the 265 kit with 12.5 to 1 for nitrous. The 282 kit will have larger valves and be naturaly asperated so it will requier cams and is a LOT more involved. But the 265 set up will be quick .Starting all in two weeks .I will start a build thread.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I was able to get on the web and the phone today.I found a local machine shop that can do the work for me. I will build the engine. But I need to have the engine bored and the crank balanced plus some head repair.
I will do the 265 kit with 12.5 to 1 for nitrous. The 282 kit will have larger valves and be naturaly asperated so it will requier cams and is a LOT more involved. But the 265 set up will be quick .Starting all in two weeks .I will start a build thread.

make sure to list prices and such :P

[Racer x]

I will list parts prices. But this is a labor intenceive thing.I will spend dozens of hours on this . But it is my quiet time in the shed so I can't put a price on labor.Unless I pay for someone to do something. Then I will list it.

[Lvr]

Wayan, this is awesome. I'd already settled on installed hi-compression pistons as my winter project this year, so it's great to see someone else doing it first lol.

@ racer X, you mention a lot about better rods, valves, valve springs etc. Is this more because of the bore-up combined with the compression increase? I'm thinking I'd like to go to 13:1 stock bore, but I was really hoping to just swap out pistons. Is a lot of extra support work necessary in your opinion?

sorry for jacking the thread...

[Racer x]

You can drop in stock bore 13 to 1 pistons . No problem . Even the 35 deg ignition timming will be good with 93 octane fuel. I am running better rods because of the nitrous. As for springs. The stock valves and springs are good.But with bigger valves I want stronger springs to control the valves. I expect to push the power band up to 14000 rpm.If the valves hit or the spring breakes it is all over.

[wayanlam]

Originally Posted by Racer x

If the valves hit or the spring breakes it is all over.

well at least you could boast having the most expensive blender

[Lvr]

Originally Posted by Racer x

You can drop in stock bore 13 to 1 pistons . No problem . Even the 35 deg ignition timming will be good with 93 octane fuel. I am running better rods because of the nitrous. As for springs. The stock valves and springs are good.But with bigger valves I want stronger springs to control the valves. I expect to push the power band up to 14000 rpm.If the valves hit or the spring breakes it is all over.

Ok, so I read somewhere that you're running like a 30hp nitrous shot? what if you were doing half that, or maybe 10hp? would you still feel a need for stronger rods and springs?

[Racer x]

If I could run less I would. It is hard to meter the small amount that I am running. But I am doing it all on stock rods now with no problems at all. Now I am to the point of trying to get the 30 shot to work. The clutch is letting go at around 40 hp. Next week I am going to try my stronger clutch and try to de-tune the motor some . Fatter jets and less timing . Just to see if I can get it to hook up . And keep the tips on the spark plugs. Just little problems.But everything matters now.

[caliente103]

who makes the kit

[wayanlam]

you get the new pistons kits from JEpistons:

http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Po.../Kawasaki.aspx

anyhow, back to business! the bike was reassembled today, finally!!

the results are not as high as i would have liked them to be, hehe, but there has still been an increase over my last dyno run:


so, the current setup is getting me 38.2 Hp, with a nice meaty 24.5 torque (newton meter, not sure what it is converted into foot pounds or whatever you americans use )

in comparison to before the bore up:

i got an increase of 1.8hp, and 1.25 n.m.

so, the bike i was hoping to bear was the one that got 39hp last week.

his top end reaches higher, but my torque is noticeably better than his bike from 9.000 till 12.000 rpm

the main factor that i believe is limiting my bike now is the exhaust on the upper end... but it kicks ass on the lower range!

ill follow up on this later~ need to go have dinner, it was a long long day working on the bike hehe

[Racer x]

Good Job. You are so close.

[Ranor]

Originally Posted by wayanlam

you get the new pistons kits from JEpistons:

the results are not as high as i would have liked them to be, hehe, but there has still been an increase over my last dyno run:

Impressive results... do you still have a record of your ninja's performance bone stock so you could measure your total increase in performance?

[wayanlam]

that was before getting the engine ported, and before the bore up~ at the time i've already re-jetted, K&N pod filter, and the full AreaP exhaust

i dont have a stock dyno run, but i can see if i can get one from one of the other bikes that they have run while in stock form. going back there again soon, so ill try and remember, lol

[crackez]

38 and 39hp? wow, it seems my ninja is quite slow(maybe if I loose 40kg I could compete ROFL)

P.S. Bare in mind I'm 1.83 and 88kg

[wayanlam]

so, as for the follow up, i wanted to divulge a little more info regarding the differences of my bike, and the other that managed to get the 39Hp.

the porting done on my bike was following the standard porting that the mechanic usually does which i think generally gets the bikes to around 34~35hp. on my bike it ended above average (36,5) i believe because of the AreaP exhaust. this exhaust is just great on my bike, and im lovin it! the porting on the other bike was done larger than standard, because they plan to replace the cam shaft to get better flow, thus a more agressive porting setup. but due to this larger porting, they lost a noticable ammount of torque in the mid range. which is something that i find essential for my style of riding.

anyhow, back to my setup, there is a drawback, and that is the fact that i have the normal full exhaust from AreaP, and not their new Sport/racing model, which comes with bigger pipes. im also running the quiet core version of the original model.

in comparison the bike that ran 39hp has a full leo Vince exhaust, which i think runs bigger pipes than mine, and thus has better flow which seems to affect the upper rev range. also the other bike is running on two individual K&N pod filters, which might have better air flow compared to my K&N uni-pod. it seems like my bike is hitting the air flow limit at around 12~13k rpm at this point, since graphically my bike is getting a way better mid rpm range result than the other bike, but lacking once i go past 12k.



however, if i had to choose between the 2 bikes, i would still choose mine, since im only 0.8 hp behind, but got a way better torque line, and a nice mid range power curve. for now i think ive spent enough money to get to this stage... who knows maybe ill get idle fingers again and try to tweak the bike even further in the future (full racing AreaP exhaust, RC31 carbs... drool), but what i have now is already a blast to ride, and anyways, i need to break in the bike again, since its got new pistons that need to settle into the newly bored out sleeves

actually, my next goal is to finalize my "street fighter" look, get some custom farings made to cover the radiator, and an oil pan or something pictures will be posted.

oh, took vids today of the dynorun, and also my mechanic doing some porting work on another bike

[Racer x]

I can't wait to see how mine does with 13.5 to 1 cr carb Brt ignition and a Nojima moto GP exhaust.

[wayanlam]

yeah! you got a big head start on me with all the goodies youve collected over the past couple seasons on the ninjette

looking forward to see what you get out of ur setup!

[crackez]

I'm the only one who has a FI ninja? (EU model)

[wayanlam]

nope, there are others, but they are mostly silent

[caliente103]

how would the 13.1 work for street riding
with FI or carb

[caliente103]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I can't wait to see how mine does with 13.5 to 1 cr carb Brt ignition and a Nojima moto GP exhaust.

whens the next speed race

[Racer x]

I think you would need at least 92 octane.
I run the stock bore but 13 to 1 pistons at the track. I have had 12.5 to 1 on the street and it was great . So 13 should be OK . But I have not ridden it on the street. I did notice that the CR carbs and 13 to 1 really drinks gas.

[caliente103]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I think you would need at least 92 octane.
I run the stock bore but 13 to 1 pistons at the track. I have had 12.5 to 1 on the street and it was great . So 13 should be OK . But I have not ridden it on the street. I did notice that the CR carbs and 13 to 1 really drinks gas.

IM thinking of doing 13 to 1 with the EFI KIT

[wayanlam]

http://youtu.be/JymCaEkQ7ug

http://youtu.be/zNoUql8M_EU

http://youtu.be/iNd9w11PjtU

those were the dyno runs

[Lvr]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I can't wait to see how mine does with 13.5 to 1 cr carb Brt ignition and a Nojima moto GP exhaust.

Yeah, me too lol.

[wayanlam]

someone asked for a stock dynorun, and i came across this one. its in line with what my dyno guy has told me:



he told me that stock bikes that they have tested range around 23 to 25hp

[sombo]

So basically you're looking at about a 55% increase in power to the bike right now. Not bad, not bad at all.

[Somchai]

Hi Wayan and Eric,

to complete your work you will need the RTR-KAW-5-05 Ignition advancer.

Take a look here: http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodk04.html

Good luck for you,

Somchai

[LoneRonin]

as much as I'd love a sleeper 250r the hassle and price doesn't seem worth it...I would consider it on my new gen though because I've been riding 4 years and will still be riding it into the foreseeable future. How would the rest of the frame hold up to the extra power?

[choneofakind]

It should be fine with the extra power. It's not excessive hp output (not like you're asking 60hp from it...)