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Old October 1st, 2011, 06:07 PM   #401
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I like to think that 91 tastes better than 87. Like Blue Moon vs. Coors. And I treat my girls right

In all honesty I've been using 87 but I think I'm going to switch back to 91 because I was getting better mileage with 91. I was also riding differently but I'd like to see if there is actually any change whether better or worse
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Old October 1st, 2011, 07:53 PM   #402
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Old November 10th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #403
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91 octane no ethanol (like shell v-power) or

87 with 10% ethanol ?????

That is real question.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 07:05 PM   #404
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91 octane no ethanol (like shell v-power) or

87 with 10% ethanol ?????

That is real question.
Rhetorical question? Costs aside, non-alcoholic gas is always better. Yes, 91 octane alcohol-free gas is better than 93 octane 10%. And of course its better than 87 - 10%. Alcohol cuts the HP and chews up your petcock's membrane and O-rings.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #405
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Gas with ethanol is never good for any engine. They say newer cars aren't hurt by it, but I still avoid it if I can. I figure I ride a ninjette, I'm already doing my part for the environment.

And for the people who put premium in it to "clean" the engine, just throw some seafoam in there every once in while.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #406
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Thumbs up Selecting the right fuel: Octane explained....

This video explains octane in a very simple manner. It's not my video, but I thought I would share it with the community here. You may enjoy some of his other motorcycle videos too.

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old January 29th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #407
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very imformative video headshrink
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Old January 29th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #408
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I run 91. Always have. I'm with Matt on this one. The few cents extra per fill up is worth it.

I ran 87 once just to see if there was a difference. And it could have been my imagination but it seemed like it was harder to start the bike once it was already warmed up and it seemed to take longer to warm up than with the 91 octane. Only advantage was I did get about 4mpg more with the 87. But until I get to a point where spending an extra $.90 a week becomes a problem, my baby only gets the best!
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Old January 29th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #409
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...it seemed like it was harder to start the bike once it was already warmed up and it seemed to take longer to warm up than with the 91 octane...

...my baby only gets the best!
I'll totally agree with the last part, but about oils. Synthetic only because it provides better lubrication when it's cold, and this has been proven. For that, I will pay the extra couple dollars per quart for synthetic over Dino oil.

However, I'm pretty sure all those "side effects" of 87 octane are all in your head. Just saying.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #410
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I'll totally agree with the last part, but about oils. Synthetic only because it provides better lubrication when it's cold, and this has been proven. For that, I will pay the extra couple dollars per quart for synthetic over Dino oil.

However, I'm pretty sure all those "side effects" of 87 octane are all in your head. Just saying.
Well I've been running mobil1 full synthetic since 2500 miles. So that explains the extended warm up. Better lubrication when cold = less heat production. Totally makes sense.

btw +1 for saying Dino oil ha
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Old January 30th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #411
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I run 91. Always have. I'm with Matt on this one. The few cents extra per fill up is worth it.

I ran 87 once just to see if there was a difference. And it could have been my imagination but it seemed like it was harder to start the bike once it was already warmed up and it seemed to take longer to warm up than with the 91 octane. Only advantage was I did get about 4mpg more with the 87. But until I get to a point where spending an extra $.90 a week becomes a problem, my baby only gets the best!
Companies have made billions of dollars selling placebo effect over the years...
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Old January 30th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #412
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Your bike will run best on what the manufacturer says it should be run on. Compression ratio and the presense / non-presense of forced induction are the dictators of how much octane an engine needs. An overdose of octane will do nothing to aid starting or warming up. It's primary job is to inhibit pre-detonation. If you're not experiencing spark knock while climbing a hill on a hot day, you're running the correct fuel.

On the other hand, overuse of octane likely won't hurt anything besides your wallet. It seems to make some people feel better because they think they're giving their bike 'the best', so I suppose there's no price you can put on peace of mind. I prefer to seek out sources of fuel that has a reputation for cleanliness & consistency. If the retailer doesn't appear on the list of Top Tier providers, I don't buy gas from them.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 08:16 AM   #413
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Companies have made billions of dollars selling placebo effect over the years...
I'll just make myself feel good about it and say that I'm stimulating the economy
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Old January 31st, 2012, 07:30 AM   #414
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I use ethanol-free 87 octane gas, and in the winter I add fuel stabilizer in it
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:28 AM   #415
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Your bike will run best on what the manufacturer says it should be run on. Compression ratio and the presense / non-presense of forced induction are the dictators of how much octane an engine needs. An overdose of octane will do nothing to aid starting or warming up. It's primary job is to inhibit pre-detonation. If you're not experiencing spark knock while climbing a hill on a hot day, you're running the correct fuel.

On the other hand, overuse of octane likely won't hurt anything besides your wallet. It seems to make some people feel better because they think they're giving their bike 'the best', so I suppose there's no price you can put on peace of mind. I prefer to seek out sources of fuel that has a reputation for cleanliness & consistency. If the retailer doesn't appear on the list of Top Tier providers, I don't buy gas from them.
Just look at how service stations have labeled the pumps. Low-Grade, Mid-Grade, Premium.

Without knowing anything about gasoline which one would you pick just going off the label. Premium of course.

The fact is most people think premium is a higher quality of fuel when in acutality all the fuel at the service station is of the same quality.

Some service stations will also only have two fuel tanks; 87 octane and 91, but sell 89.

How do they do that? By mixing the 91 and 87 50/50, to get to the correct octang level and perfectly acceptable. The refiner would do that if it was easier.

It's a sham, but they're making money off of people's gullibility. That's the new american way.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:38 AM   #416
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You can't say that there isn't a difference, there clearly is. On the 250 91 doesn't run well. On my zx it runs like **** on 87. The choice should be on what the bike wants and what it runs better on, nit what you think the numbers mean
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:48 AM   #417
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Manufacturers recommended fuel rating is normally correct for the stock application. By adding in major air induction/engine modifications fuel quality needs to be addressed.

I ran 88 octane initially which is mid grade in my locale then switched to 86. I have not had any problems with the 86 yet but will see come summer if the switch back to 88 is warranted.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 12:36 PM   #418
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Manufacturers recommended fuel rating is normally correct for the stock application. By adding in major air induction/engine modifications fuel quality needs to be addressed.

I ran 88 octane initially which is mid grade in my locale then switched to 86. I have not had any problems with the 86 yet but will see come summer if the switch back to 88 is warranted.
The point is that fuel quality has nothing to do with the octane rating. The quality is determined by what station you go to and where they get their fuel from, how it's delivered and how it's stored.

The "Octane Rating" is a measure of the tendency of gasoline to resist self-igniting using isooctane as the reference benchmark.

So a gasoline with an octane rating of 87 will be equavelent in self-ignition resistance to a mixture of 87% octane and 13% heptane.

But a higher octane rating does not equate to more energy in the fuel, cleaner burning, or inherently more performance.

In modern cars with variable valve timing. Higher octane rating does equate to higher performance for the simple reason that the engine controller is changing the timing to prevent knocking. When running higher octane fuels the valve timing can be more advanced for a performance gain.

I do not know of a bike that has variable valve timing. The 250 clearly doesn't.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 01:47 PM   #419
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The point is that fuel quality has nothing to do with the octane rating. The quality is determined by what station you go to and where they get their fuel from, how it's delivered and how it's stored.

The "Octane Rating" is a measure of the tendency of gasoline to resist self-igniting using isooctane as the reference benchmark.

So a gasoline with an octane rating of 87 will be equavelent in self-ignition resistance to a mixture of 87% octane and 13% heptane.

But a higher octane rating does not equate to more energy in the fuel, cleaner burning, or inherently more performance.

In modern cars with variable valve timing. Higher octane rating does equate to higher performance for the simple reason that the engine controller is changing the timing to prevent knocking. When running higher octane fuels the valve timing can be more advanced for a performance gain.

I do not know of a bike that has variable valve timing. The 250 clearly doesn't.
Quality may have been the incorrect terminology. Overall quality of the fuel varies on several factors to include: production, on-site storage, shipping, final destination storage tanks, temperature, relative humidity, ground water table......
All of these factors will determine the quality of fuel.
I worked in Petroleum, Oil, and Lubricants (POL) during my time as active duty Air Force and part of the job was to quality check the JP-8, Diesel, and MOGAS along with storage tanks.

Octane is the stability of the fuel during the combustion process which is documented as 2 C8H18 + 25 O2 → 16 CO2 + 18 H2O.

Higher octane rating decreases the chance of detonation which for the most part is not a problem.

In modern vehicles variable valve and spark timing will help to achieve combustion at the most opportune moment.
Variable valve timing may increase performance over a wide rpm band by changing the lift and duration the valves are open.

During the combustion process all valves are closed so the engine can achieve compression, now variable spark timing comes into play to achieve "perfect" combustion.

Designed high compression engines or a modified engine using high compression/oxidizers running a lower octane fuel will be prone to detonation much like operation of a diesel engine.

Additional factor is fuel temperature when introduced into the combustion chamber, higher ambient temp with lower octane fuel can also lead to detonation.

Seeing how in my location I am already running below recommended fuel which has not been a problem in the fall/winter months but during summer when ambient temps are normally 100+ here in the desert leading to higher resting temp of the gasoline pre-detonation is something I have to keep a watch for.

Another prime example is the difference of diesel fuel and the paraffin content between summer and winter.

The ninjette will not benefit at all from running any higher octane fuel.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:09 AM   #420
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87 in mine. I did run a tank of 94 thru it once at the request of the dealer as I was complaining about a hesitation around 8-10k rpm in hot weather. It ran like a can of smashed assholes, and I've never put anything other than regular in it since. didn't make the hesitation any better, in fact I think it made it worse.
I'd like to update this, after shimming the carb needles with 1 washer each and removing the snorkel I've been running premium 91 ever since. Still has a bit of a flat spot from 8-9k, but it's not nearly as bad.
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:11 AM   #421
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kamikaze try another washer, and normal 87 octane. That flat spot in the midrange (where the needles are in control) means your mix in the midrange isn't quite right
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:14 AM   #422
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kamikaze try another washer, and normal 87 octane. That flat spot in the midrange (where the needles are in control) means your mix in the midrange isn't quite right
I"ll try that in the spring. still have to tear it all apart to do a valve job and I'm waiting for it to warm up a tad. I'm pretty happy with how it's performing at the moment (well, when i put it away anyway.)
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Old February 3rd, 2012, 08:16 AM   #423
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I do not know of a bike that has variable valve timing. The 250 clearly doesn't.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #424
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What octane do you use

Do you guys pump tge 91 or the regular the label under the rear seat recomends a 91
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #425
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Do you guys pump the 91 or the regular the label under the rear seat recomends a 91
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #426
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doesn't the manual recommend 87?
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #427
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doesn't the manual recommend 87?
I dont know i dont have one thats why i ask sometimes my mpg varies and i dont know why i only have 8700 miles on it
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #428
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The seat doesn't say to use 91 octane, it's the RON or Research Octane Number. Using 91 won't hurt your engine, but you'll just use more fuel, and receive the same power output. Look at page 29 in your owners manual. It can actually reduce your power, but it's to small to even be noticed. Depending on your elevation, you should use 87. However, if you're at a higher elevation, and you experience knocking or unusual noises from your engine, switch to a different octane or brand.

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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:36 PM   #429
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Damn that lawnmower sure has taught you a lot...

But seriously there's a cluster**** thread on this forum about octane already and you should definitely use 87, like the rest of us.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:37 PM   #430
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Damn that lawnmower sure has taught you a lot...

But seriously there's a cluster**** thread on this forum about octane already and you should definitely use 87, like the rest of us.
People think I know nothing, but I do know stuff :

Just don't use diesel

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:38 PM   #431
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You know a decent amount about what can be learned from reading, that is correct.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #432
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Yeap. But I know what all that meant before I read it. I've spent lots of time with cars with my dad. He buys used cars and fixes them.
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:48 PM   #433
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The seat doesn't say to use 91 octane, it's the RON or Research Octane Number. Using 91 won't hurt your engine, but you'll just use more fuel, and receive the same power output. Look at page 29 in your owners manual. It can actually reduce your power, but it's to small to even be noticed. Depending on your elevation, you should use 87. However, if you're at a higher elevation, and you experience knocking or unusual noises from your engine, switch to a different octane or brand.

Thank you very much 87 it is sorry guys if this seems like a dumb question but this is my first bike and i want it to ladt me a long time
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Old February 28th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #434
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It's not a dumb question
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:16 PM   #435
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Just maintain it well. Change your oil and clean and lube your chain.

Not crashing also helps
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Old February 28th, 2012, 09:35 PM   #436
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Ethanol is a fantasy renewable fuel source. ruins all the soft parts in my jet ski and atv carbs. Makes my air foolers run hot!

Evil stuff . Currently combating it with additive s and driving far far away in search of E free fuel.

I am working on a conversion kit !

Make my ninja run on Bacardi 151.

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Old February 29th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #437
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In relation to this thread, yesterday was my first fill up for the tank and the first question that came to me at the gas station is what grade of gas should I use? Tried to look for the info anywhere near the tank but I was out of luck so I just went with the middle option and chose the 89. but last night I was trying to figure out how to hang a helmet to the bike so I take of the back seat and find a sticker at the bottom of it saying that I have to use a grade 91!!!

I will snap a picture and show to u guys!!
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Old February 29th, 2012, 01:04 PM   #438
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87 octane unleaded was recommended for my 1999 pregen so that is what I use. If you ever try to advance the ignition timing , i would consider using higher octane fuel.
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Old February 29th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #439
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@trixter you are right it does have the RON next to the 91

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Old February 29th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #440
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Name: Ali
Location: Fresno, CA
Join Date: Feb 2012

Motorcycle(s): Kawasaki Ninja 250R

Posts: 28
@trixter Great that you read a lot so u solve this dilema ... I just read about it in wikipidia and you were spot on!!
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