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Old April 3rd, 2011, 03:33 PM   #1
bettysmith
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MSF gear question

So I understand that MSF supplies a helmet and bike (here in PA at least), however what would acceptable gear aside from those be? Clearly no shorts / t-shirt nonsense, but what have you all taken the MSF in / what would you suggest looking back?

Edit: For someone who has yet to aquire a bike / any riding dedicated safety gear.
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Old April 3rd, 2011, 03:44 PM   #2
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When I took the msf course I wore a long sleeve shirt (I'd recommend a rugged one), mechanix gloves, jeans, boots and I'd recommend sunglasses. I took my own helmet and the instructors wouldn't let me lift my helmet shield more than 1 click without sunglasses on a very hot weekend (95F+). They provided 3/4 helmets with no shields and required people to have some form of eye protection whether it be glasses or goggles, etc. I wouldn't recommend going out and buying a full set of motorcycle gear until after you pass the class and start riding on the street. Goodluck at the class, I'm sure your going to have a great time!

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Old April 3rd, 2011, 03:49 PM   #3
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I would check out this thread, as many have left great advice that would apply to you as well.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69850
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Old April 3rd, 2011, 03:51 PM   #4
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My MSF experience was much the same: Provided 3/4 helmets, and a bike but nothing more. Long-sleeve shirt (or jacket), as well as jeans, & boots were all required. Suggested gloves of some kind, & sunglasses. I'd also keep an eye on the weather. I wound up spending much of the weekend in the rain, so I brought a 2-piece rain suit that saved me a lot of misery.
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Old April 3rd, 2011, 03:59 PM   #5
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Luckily I kept all my info / papers from my msf course and here are the required items on the paper:

-Full fingered leather gloves (they should be lenient as long as they are sturdy abrasion resistant gloves)
-Long-sleeved shirt or jacket
-Long, sturdy pants
-Sturdy shoes that completely cover the ankles (Leather over the ankle boots are preferred but, high-top sturdy shoes are acceptable, if the ankle bone is completely covered)
-Eye protection (sunglasses, prescription eyewear, safety goggles or helmet face shields are acceptable0
-suggested additional items are sun block, waterproof rain gear, and extra clothing

That's all directly from the sheet, excluding my comment about the gloves. At my msf class they supplied water coolers, if you want a snack I'd recommend you bring something of your own, pb&j sandwhiches are good and some gatorade, especially if it's suppose to be a hot day. The first day of the class should be an in-class portion in which they explain what they want you to wear and they should show you a bunch of informative / interactive videos. I hope this helps.
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Old April 3rd, 2011, 07:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by AMMOCAN View Post
I would check out this thread, as many have left great advice that would apply to you as well.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=69850
Thanks, a lot of good information there. I hadn't give searching for my particular question a thought, but looks like I could have.

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My MSF experience was much the same: Provided 3/4 helmets, and a bike but nothing more. Long-sleeve shirt (or jacket), as well as jeans, & boots were all required. Suggested gloves of some kind, & sunglasses. I'd also keep an eye on the weather. I wound up spending much of the weekend in the rain, so I brought a 2-piece rain suit that saved me a lot of misery.
Fantastic advice, I'll be sure to take note of the projected forecast.

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Luckily I kept all my info / papers from my msf course and here are the required items on the paper:

-Full fingered leather gloves (they should be lenient as long as they are sturdy abrasion resistant gloves)
-Long-sleeved shirt or jacket
-Long, sturdy pants
-Sturdy shoes that completely cover the ankles (Leather over the ankle boots are preferred but, high-top sturdy shoes are acceptable, if the ankle bone is completely covered)
-Eye protection (sunglasses, prescription eyewear, safety goggles or helmet face shields are acceptable0
-suggested additional items are sun block, waterproof rain gear, and extra clothing

That's all directly from the sheet, excluding my comment about the gloves. At my msf class they supplied water coolers, if you want a snack I'd recommend you bring something of your own, pb&j sandwhiches are good and some gatorade, especially if it's suppose to be a hot day. The first day of the class should be an in-class portion in which they explain what they want you to wear and they should show you a bunch of informative / interactive videos. I hope this helps.
Thanks! I've got a pair of timberland work boots that I thought would suit the riding portion pretty well. I'll have to pick up a set of gloves, and I can just snag a pair of safety glasses from work. Would snowboarding goggles be allowed? I'm not sure if they're safety rated (I would assume so though.)

I've been browsing the site for a while and had this thought the other day so decided to register and find out the answer. Thanks for the warm welcome.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 05:57 AM   #7
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I've taken the course a few times. All that is required for PA is...

-Long pants
-Footwear that covers your ankle. Doesn't need to be motorcycle specific. Workboots, etc
-Long sleeves. Even a sweatshirt is fine.
-Gloves. Even gardening gloves are fine. I'd recommend something else, but I forgot a pair on my last day and the coaches scrounged up a pair of plain old cotton gloves for me to use.
-Helmet. You can wear theirs, except they may have a limited selection of sizes. Not sure if you're a germophobe or not. You never know who else has worn those helmets
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Old April 4th, 2011, 05:59 AM   #8
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D'oh, forgot about eye protection. Other posters are correct. You need some sort of eye protection. If you have a full face helmet, that is great (although it sounds like you don't). If you're borrowing their helmets, bring sunglasses because all they will probably have are 3/4 helmets. They won't let you ride without having something over your eyes.

Your goggles ought to be fine. They really aren't concerned about how safe or motorcycle specific your gear is. They're just interested in making sure you're used to wearing something. Making sure you follow the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit. As others have suggested, take the course first and then work on getting geared up once you're ready to get a bike and start riding.

Good luck with the course! Where are you taking it?
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Old April 4th, 2011, 06:26 AM   #9
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-Helmet. You can wear theirs, except they may have a limited selection of sizes. Not sure if you're a germophobe or not. You never know who else has worn those helmets
Yeahp, bring a bandana or something.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 02:35 PM   #10
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D'oh, forgot about eye protection. Other posters are correct. You need some sort of eye protection. If you have a full face helmet, that is great (although it sounds like you don't). If you're borrowing their helmets, bring sunglasses because all they will probably have are 3/4 helmets. They won't let you ride without having something over your eyes.

Your goggles ought to be fine. They really aren't concerned about how safe or motorcycle specific your gear is. They're just interested in making sure you're used to wearing something. Making sure you follow the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit. As others have suggested, take the course first and then work on getting geared up once you're ready to get a bike and start riding.

Good luck with the course! Where are you taking it?
I have yet to figure that out. Got any suggestions? I'm located in the King Of Prussia area. I still need to get my permit, but that will have to wait until Friday when I only have a half day of work. After that I'd like to take the course ASAP but don't see myself getting a bike for a few months unfortunately. No worries though! Knowing I can ride is good enough for now...I mean geez, I've only entertained the thought of getting a bike for a few years...

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Yeahp, bring a bandana or something.
Not too concerned with germs, but yeah I definitely will bring a bandana.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #11
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Get registered asap because those classes fill up fast. I did one at Valley Forge and one at Cheney Univ. No experience with other states, but the PA classes are run well and great for a brand new rider.

Are you planning on a 250 for the first bike? If so, it's a great choice
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Old April 4th, 2011, 03:24 PM   #12
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My biggest suggestion besides the gear is bring snacks and PLENTY of water. WATER.

I was so dehydrated the first day I literally drank 1.5 liters of water right when I got home from the course. It was 95 and sunny all day and the asphalt parking lot didn't help that much
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Old April 4th, 2011, 03:34 PM   #13
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Get registered asap because those classes fill up fast. I did one at Valley Forge and one at Cheney Univ. No experience with other states, but the PA classes are run well and great for a brand new rider.

Are you planning on a 250 for the first bike? If so, it's a great choice
Yeah, it's either between an EX250 / 500 (250 preferred), or a GS500(E/F). I would like to get a pre 08 250, as I have a few ideas floating around in my head for a custom seat cowl / seat (not to mention price difference) but we'll see how that all pans out.

I'm not quite a brand new rider, as I have limited experience with an older honda 80cc dirt bike from many years ago, but I loved it. Riding it, that is.

@choneofakind - Yeah, I'll be sure to bring plenty of drink. I'm diabetic, and usually carry around a fair amount of snacks / drinks with ample carbohydrates as is.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 04:04 PM   #14
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Smart idea on the food and drink. This early in the season, it isn't really bad. Especially if you get a class that only meets in the evening. But if you get closer to the summer heat and wind up in a class that runs for longer hours on a weekend, that can be tough.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 09:53 PM   #15
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Unless it is really cool, I would just go with a long sleeve shirt. A heavy duty type is best. A motorcycle jacket is probably overkill. You'll also need leather gloves. Riding gloves are nice, but a good pair of work gloves will do. If you have a helmet, you can bring that, but I would also recommend bring sun glasses as well so you can put your face shield up. Easier to hear the instructor, and it will be better ventilation (you won't be going fast enough to fully utilize the helmet's venting). A decent, comfortable pair of jeans, and some over the ankle boots (Converse All Star type shoes will probably not be acceptable). Snacks and water are a good idea. Also a good idea to have some rain gear available as most classes happen rain or shine.
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Old April 6th, 2011, 09:56 PM   #16
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Smart idea on the food and drink. This early in the season, it isn't really bad. Especially if you get a class that only meets in the evening. But if you get closer to the summer heat and wind up in a class that runs for longer hours on a weekend, that can be tough.
I took the course a few years ago as a refresher. It was 102 the two days I took it. Sunny parking lot with no shade. I had a cooler with water and gatoraid in it. It came in handy.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 04:03 AM   #17
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I took the course a few years ago as a refresher. It was 102 the two days I took it. Sunny parking lot with no shade. I had a cooler with water and gatoraid in it. It came in handy.
Ouch! The first course I took was scheduled 3 evenings per week for 2 weeks. That wasn't bad at all, since the range time was around 7pm and only lasted an hour or so. Even if it was a hot day, it cooled off by then.

The refresher course I took a couple years ago ran two long Sunday afternoons in a row. Big difference being out on the range in the middle of the day for multiple hours in a row.
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Old April 7th, 2011, 06:31 AM   #18
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As an MSF instructor I'll throw my $.02 in here.
All the above advice is good. Gear-wise what we are looking for is that all of your skin is covered.
DOT approved helmet - 3/4, full, whatever. Must have at least a DOT rating.
Eye protection - visor on helmet, sunglasses, prescription glasses, ski goggles, as long as your eye's are protected.
Long sleeve shirt or jacket - if it's hot go with long sleeve shirt.
Long pants - jeans without holes in the knee's or seat area. Fashionable yes, protective no.
Over-the-ankle footwear - we allow anything that covers your ankle bone. If I can poke you in the ankle and not hit shoe, they won't work and you'd be asked to leave and hopefully reschedule.
Full fingered gloves - gardening, dishwashing, mittens, whatever. Make sure they fit and aren't too tight or too bulky so that you can manipulate the controls.

Rain gear - yes, we ride in the rain. *gasp* Motorcycle specific is best, but if you don't want to make that investment right now a trash bag will keep you reasonbly dry. If that's not your style then any cheapo suit from Wal Mart and such will suffice for range use.

Water and snacks - you should get time for breaks. I carry water, gatorade, and various snack things with me.

Good Luck, have fun, and thanks for taking the class!
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Old April 7th, 2011, 05:24 PM   #19
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As an MSF instructor I'll throw my $.02 in here.
All the above advice is good. Gear-wise what we are looking for is that all of your skin is covered.
DOT approved helmet - 3/4, full, whatever. Must have at least a DOT rating.
Eye protection - visor on helmet, sunglasses, prescription glasses, ski goggles, as long as your eye's are protected.
Long sleeve shirt or jacket - if it's hot go with long sleeve shirt.
Long pants - jeans without holes in the knee's or seat area. Fashionable yes, protective no.
Over-the-ankle footwear - we allow anything that covers your ankle bone. If I can poke you in the ankle and not hit shoe, they won't work and you'd be asked to leave and hopefully reschedule.
Full fingered gloves - gardening, dishwashing, mittens, whatever. Make sure they fit and aren't too tight or too bulky so that you can manipulate the controls.

Rain gear - yes, we ride in the rain. *gasp* Motorcycle specific is best, but if you don't want to make that investment right now a trash bag will keep you reasonbly dry. If that's not your style then any cheapo suit from Wal Mart and such will suffice for range use.

Water and snacks - you should get time for breaks. I carry water, gatorade, and various snack things with me.

Good Luck, have fun, and thanks for taking the class!
Probably going to just wear a pair of golf gloves or pick up a pair of batting gloves from wally world as I have to stop there tomorrow anyway. Also going for my permit tomorrow, woo! I took a few different practice tests online, passed them all with flying colors. Wish me luck.
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Old April 8th, 2011, 05:18 AM   #20
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Good luck with it! I was like a little kid on Christmas morning when I first took the MSF class. After the first week was over my wife and I went out and bought a Shadow 600. Couldn't even wait till we finished the second week
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Old April 8th, 2011, 07:50 AM   #21
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The second time I went full geared with Alpinestars SMX Plus boots, Astars gloves, Astars leather jacket, Scorpion helmet, Shift knee pads, and jeans.
You wore knee pads to your MSF class?
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Old April 8th, 2011, 07:56 AM   #22
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Ouch! The first course I took was scheduled 3 evenings per week for 2 weeks. That wasn't bad at all, since the range time was around 7pm and only lasted an hour or so. Even if it was a hot day, it cooled off by then.

The refresher course I took a couple years ago ran two long Sunday afternoons in a row. Big difference being out on the range in the middle of the day for multiple hours in a row.
My class was over two consecutive days in July. We did a few hours in the classroom each day, and then spent the rest of the time out on "the range". I was so glad that I had sunglasses with me so I could keep my visor up.

I took the course as a refresher as it had been some time since I had my own bike. It was a deal I made with my wife; if I buy a motorcycle, I would take a riders safety course.
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Old April 8th, 2011, 11:35 AM   #23
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DMV doesn't accept cash. Whoopsy. Going tomorrow with a check in the event that I pass.
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Old April 8th, 2011, 12:45 PM   #24
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As an MSF instructor I'll throw my $.02 in here.
All the above advice is good. Gear-wise what we are looking for is that all of your skin is covered.
DOT approved helmet - 3/4, full, whatever. Must have at least a DOT rating.
Eye protection - visor on helmet, sunglasses, prescription glasses, ski goggles, as long as your eye's are protected.
Long sleeve shirt or jacket - if it's hot go with long sleeve shirt.
Long pants - jeans without holes in the knee's or seat area. Fashionable yes, protective no.
Over-the-ankle footwear - we allow anything that covers your ankle bone. If I can poke you in the ankle and not hit shoe, they won't work and you'd be asked to leave and hopefully reschedule.
Full fingered gloves - gardening, dishwashing, mittens, whatever. Make sure they fit and aren't too tight or too bulky so that you can manipulate the controls.

Rain gear - yes, we ride in the rain. *gasp* Motorcycle specific is best, but if you don't want to make that investment right now a trash bag will keep you reasonbly dry. If that's not your style then any cheapo suit from Wal Mart and such will suffice for range use.

Water and snacks - you should get time for breaks. I carry water, gatorade, and various snack things with me.

Good Luck, have fun, and thanks for taking the class!
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Old April 8th, 2011, 08:49 PM   #25
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Good luck with it! I was like a little kid on Christmas morning when I first took the MSF class.
same. All the old guys taking the class were all saying something along the lines of, "Why do I have to take this stupid class to get my license" and all I could say was, "I get to ride a motorcycle today!!!!" The course instructors said I was their most energetic student in years
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Old April 8th, 2011, 09:47 PM   #26
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shouldnt waste your money on the course.
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Old April 8th, 2011, 10:05 PM   #27
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shouldnt waste your money on the course.
have you taken it?
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Old April 8th, 2011, 10:14 PM   #28
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shouldnt waste your money on the course.
I'm curious as to why you would say this?

I personally didn't take the class, but it was certainly my intention to do so. It just worked out that I found a deal on the 250 I had about three months earlier than my wife and I planned to buy. That messed up the timing for everything. We didn't have the time until summer to do the course, and by then I had 2200 miles, this forum, another forum, Keith Code books, magazines and a few other sources for sound riding advice to fall back on. She doesn't feel comfortable with group activities with strangers anyway. She is also hard-headed and prone to know-it-all moments. She knows it and decided to simply take things at her own pace doing parking lot practice and 35 mph, light traffic back-roads. I fully blame myself for not forcing us both to take the course. We will be taking a course at some point in the future and I have already informed her of this and she has agreed to it.

It is understandable if you don't want to take the course, but again, why would you tell someone it is a waste of money? Plenty of valuable information is given at the course and, more importantly, for a novice who has never ridden before (or at least never on the street on a larger bike) it is an opportunity to do so in a safe environment. I wonder how many fewer slightly used motorcycles we would see for purchase if prospective buyers took the course before making that purchase?
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Old April 9th, 2011, 02:57 AM   #29
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shouldnt waste your money on the course.
First off, I couldn't disagree more. Second, the course in PA is completely free.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:16 AM   #30
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shouldnt waste your money on the course.
I took it for free since I was a minor, and even if I was an adult it would have cost me $25. For how much it taught me before EVER riding a motorcycle, I'd say that was well worth $25. In fact, I would say it's worth more than $25. When I took drivers Ed, my parents payed for me to participate in a company that's call DriveTeam. They basically do a skills weekend that involves all the activities in the MSF course (minus the uturn in the box), only in a car, and faster, and each of their instructors are professional drivers and there's an instructor in the car with you or at each checkpoint the whole time. The classroom time in this class was well worth the money, and it was a LOT more money than the MSF course. And the MSF course was equally as helpful. I went from never having ridden a motorcycle before, to missing only 4 points (all from stopping distance in the panic stop) in the test to get my license, and knowing how to keep my eyes open in traffic. This knowledge has not only made me a better rider, it's made me a more aware and safer driver, and bicycle rider as well The MSF course, while it isn't going to make you a track star because of how basic it is, is WELL worth your money.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 08:44 AM   #31
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Failed the permit test. Time for a quick rant.

When I got my Class C permit, on that test I had gotten a question about the consequences of getting caught by LEO with drugs in your vehicle. WTF does that have to do with properly operating a motor vehicle? Now, on my class M permit test (the one I just took), I get a question about how alcohol effects your body. WTF does that have to do with proper operation of a motorcycle?

That wasn't the only one I had gotten wrong though, so I can't pretend to blame something else really. The questions I had the biggest problems with were lane positioning. Such as, when making a right hand turn at an intersection, where in your lane should you be before you initiate the turn? / Riding staggered, after the lead rider passes a vehicle what should he do next? (Answers were return to a particular lane position (left / center / right, or wave the other riders on)
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Old April 9th, 2011, 08:54 AM   #32
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I get a question about how alcohol effects your body. WTF does that have to do with proper operation of a motorcycle?
Well...

No, I get what you're saying. That is a frustration. Read up on it though. As I recall, the definitely cover that in the classroom portion of the course and it very likely will come up on the written test. I'm assuming that is a state mandated thing that they're required to teach / test.

Then again, I'm sure there are a non-trivial amount of motorcycle accidents that are alcohol related
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Old April 9th, 2011, 08:59 AM   #33
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Well...

No, I get what you're saying. That is a frustration. Read up on it though. As I recall, the definitely cover that in the classroom portion of the course and it very likely will come up on the written test. I'm assuming that is a state mandated thing that they're required to teach / test.

Then again, I'm sure there are a non-trivial amount of motorcycle accidents that are alcohol related
I seldom drink, and much less think about drinking (More of a smoker .) What relevance is drinking to riding a bike? It's like they expect people to drink and drive. ****, not even drink and drive, drink and RIDE.

Ugh.
(Just frustrated, not bitching at you or anything)

Whatever, I'm going to go again Monday morning before I head into work and hope that I can rectify my mistakes.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 06:51 PM   #34
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What relevance is drinking to riding a bike? It's like they expect people to drink and drive. ****, not even drink and drive, drink and RIDE.
Quite a lot of relevance actually. It is vital IMO to understand how alcohol effects the body. It is certainly not something you can figure out as you're drinking. This is something that every driver needs to understand. And of course they expect people to drink and drive because people do drink and then drive. I do. But I also understand how much alcohol I can consume without it having an impact on my ability to drive a car or ride a motorcycle.
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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #35
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I know how frustrating it can be. Although back when I got my permit, all you had to do was pay $8, sign a form, and walk out No test at all for the permit. In hindsight, that actually seems like a pretty stupid idea!

I know it seems painfully obvious that drinking and riding is a bad idea. You wouldn't think it needs to be explained, but unfortunately, I think it happens more often than we'd like to believe. They will definitely talk about it in the class, and it's very likely that there'll be a question on the licensing written test about alcohol.

Don't let it get you down. Armed with your experience, you should do fine on Monday and be all set for the course. Enjoy it!
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Old April 9th, 2011, 07:00 PM   #36
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Quite a lot of relevance actually. It is vital IMO to understand how alcohol effects the body. It is certainly not something you can figure out as you're drinking. This is something that every driver needs to understand. And of course they expect people to drink and drive because people do drink and then drive. I do. But I also understand how much alcohol I can consume without it having an impact on my ability to drive a car or ride a motorcycle.
Meh, you're right. However, as far as taking a test in regards to operating a motorcycle, I think a question as to how you are effected by alcohol need not be included. The rest of the questions I was shown seemed very relevant.


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I know how frustrating it can be. Although back when I got my permit, all you had to do was pay $8, sign a form, and walk out No test at all for the permit. In hindsight, that actually seems like a pretty stupid idea!

I know it seems painfully obvious that drinking and riding is a bad idea. You wouldn't think it needs to be explained, but unfortunately, I think it happens more often than we'd like to believe. They will definitely talk about it in the class, and it's very likely that there'll be a question on the licensing written test about alcohol.

Don't let it get you down. Armed with your experience, you should do fine on Monday and be all set for the course. Enjoy it!
Thanks! I browsed to the PA DMV Motorcycle handbook and took a look over the sections that I had trouble with. Going to keep reading it and preparing myself.

Thanks all for the insightful posts, and taking the time to contribute.
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Old April 10th, 2011, 03:47 AM   #37
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Just now saw the post that you're near KOP. The closest spot is probably gonna be the Valley Forge one. It's actually run in the big empty parking lot next to the VF rest stop on the turnpike, but you don't get to it via the turnpike. It's a bit past that shopping center that has the Staples in it right off 202. Maybe one of the 252 exits?

Keep us updated on how you make out. I'm pretty close to you. Right in Media.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #38
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Passed my permit test about an hour ago. Didn't get any wrong, but had to skip one. Tip to anyone who has yet to get their permit and may read this: Go to your state's DMV website and download the motorcycle handbook. In the back there should be about ~80 questions (mine had that at least) and go through them all.

Also just finished my registration for PAMSP (MSF for PA). May 2nd is the first day.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 01:11 PM   #39
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Passed my permit test about an hour ago. Didn't get any wrong, but had to skip one. Tip to anyone who has yet to get their permit and may read this: Go to your state's DMV website and download the motorcycle handbook. In the back there should be about ~80 questions (mine had that at least) and go through them all.

Also just finished my registration for PAMSP (MSF for PA). May 2nd is the first day.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 01:54 PM   #40
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Grats Tim! You are going to love riding! At least I think you will! If you don't, then there is clearly something wrong with you!
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