MSF Question, Extra 1 on 1 hour, or not?

[Mr.E]

Hey everyone.
So I want to get my MSF course done with, but with my schedual it's pretty hard. Im going to be asking for my birthday week off, but I am stuck on something.

HD which is where I'll be taking my classes, offers a regular class where you do the written part then go out on the range, and then they offer another class, where you do the written part, then you get a 1 on 1 hour of practice with an instructor, then you schedule for the next week to do a group range class.

I was wanting to do the one with the 1 on 1 extra hour of instruction, but my time doesn't really allow me. I think im supposed to sign up atleast 3 weeks ahead, and if thats the case then pretty much Im screwed. See i work over nights thursdays through sundays, and their classes (that I want to take) will be wednesday thursday and friday. Im trying to miss as little work as possible and thats the only week I want to ask off for.

The point of this post is, Do you guys think I'll be just fine if I take the MSF just normal, and do the 3 days without the extra hour of practice? I've never been on a motorcycle before but I think I'll do fine and keep up because many people with no experiance do. Or, should I just wait until I have more free time within the next few months before I get my motorcycle and take the class with the extra 1 on 1 riding hour with an instructor?
Thanks!

P.S. I wasnt sure whether or not to post here or in the riding skills. Sorry.

[kkim]

take the course in the regular time allotment. don't over think this... just go there ready to absorb as much as you can and you'll do fine.

[gfloyd2002]

You'll be fine either way. My MSF class had a few who had never touched a bike before, they passed, including a particularly uncoordinated woman I was sure would kill herself before the day was over and fail. She dropped the bike a few times, but not during the testing portion, and she is now certainly dead or disfigured after having been set free on the world by MSF.

Point being, the class is very slow paced, and they walk you through things step by step. Here is how you get on a bike. Here is how you start a bike. WHOA there tiger, don't put into gear yet, we need to go over the controls one more time, etc. They let you make mistakes pretty pressure free (until the test).

[Mr.E]

Thanks for the tips guys. I think I will just do a regular class now with some reassurance from you guys. Signing up as soon as I get paid friday. x-)

[blink]

Sorry, do you have a bike yet?
If yes I'd practice around the lots or something! I did that and then when it came to MSF i could really concentrate on improving and getting pointers rather than having to go over basics, either way MSF is superbly important, but which ever road you take it will help you be a better rider =]

[Mr.E]

Sadly, no bike yet. That wont be coming until another 2 months. I'm just getting everything in order for now. I'm hoping I'll be fine because there's tons of people who've never been on a motorcycle before and still pass. Especially in florida since it's a mandatory class you have to take in order to get your endorsement. Hopefully I'll be like a sponge.

[LazinCajun]

Pay attention, do what the coaches tell you, make use of the practice time you have, and you'll be fine for passing the MSF. I had people in my class who didn't know what a clutch did going into the class, and they passed just fine. I think only 3 of ~15 people in my class had any experience operating a motorcycle. One of them had a dirtbike, and the other 2 had been riding for a couple years with no motorcycle endorsement (!). One person didn't pass, and it's only because he decided it wasn't for him and dropped out. You'll be fine, I'm sure

[TXJ]

If you want one on one training, do it for learning how to ride on a track after you're pretty experience with riding since your money will go to better use. 1on1 for basic riding isn't necessary. The BRC MSF will be plenty make you feel confident with basic operation.

When I went to a BRC MSF class there were several people who dropped their bike multiple times and still passed. Most places will pass you unless they're just plain dangerous on two wheels, since having the cert is prerequisite to get a license in most states.

Listen, learn, and have fun! Riding a motorcycle is simple, it gets hard if you start to over think everything you do.

[blink]

All true! I pulled a wheelie on a dirtbike (complete accident) kept calm and put the front end down softly, coaches said "be careful" =p

In U.S...does passing MSF mean receiving your license?
Because in Canada passing MSF only gave you a certificate to qualify for a slight discount on insurance and the road test!

The actual Road Test, was hard; not interms of skill, but staying calm and doing everything right. I.e speed, turns, signalling, everything!

[LazinCajun]

Alex: it varies from state to state. Here in Florida, you need a regular driver's license + the MSF to get a motorcycle license. Some other states have additional testing I think.

[n4mwd]

Florida used to have a "motorcycle-only" license, but I heard a rumor that they were phasing that out.

Regarding your MSF course, I have a few suggestions if it isn't too late.

1. You will learn about the "Friction zone". This is area where the clutch is not fully engaged but is still pulling a little. In real life, pretty much the only time you use this is when you take off from 1st gear. But in the course, you will use it to ride the bike at a very slow speed. Without riding in the friction zone, the bike chain slack will cause the bike to do a herky-jerky and you will have a hard time controlling it. Basically, you use the friction zone plus constant pressure on the rear brake to keep the chain tight and prevent the herky-jerky stuff.

2. Don't hit the front brake in a low speed turn. They will teach you how to abort a turn. In that case, you straighten up and then hit both brakes.

3. To pass the course, you'll need to be able to make very tight, slow speed turns. In a nutshell, you need to be able to do a figure 8 in 20x60' box. OK, its not exactly a figure 8, but its pretty much what you need to do.

The best way to practice this is with a real motorcycle. Maybe see if you can find someone with a bike or mini-bike of some kind that will let you practice with. I thought that my years of riding a bicycle would make it easy. I was wrong. But if you don't have anything better, practice with that.

PS- I forgot the most important thing they fuss about...

4. Always turn your head and look into a turn and keep looking until the turn is over. Turning your head really helps a lot with slow speed turns and they will fuss if they catch you not turning your head.

[Mr.E]

Thanks for the suggestions and tips guys. I went ahead and signed up today for july 6th-8th for the normal class. Im pretty confident I'll pass without the extra hour. I'm you'll all be seeing a post somewhere later about me saying I passed lol. Thanks for the help on the decision.

[whiteboy]

I'd say if you can get a good feel for your friction zone. O and are you using your own bike or the loaner bikes they got? I digest using our own, Manu here would disagree burro me it's all about learning how to ride your bike not what they have. Get a feel for your own machine plus alot aroun here won't give you a card if you use Thier bikes. Just my 1.5 cents and have fun and good luck it's to easy

[LazinCajun]

Originally Posted by whiteboy

I'd say if you can get a good feel for your friction zone. O and are you using your own bike or the loaner bikes they got? I digest using our own, Manu here would disagree burro me it's all about learning how to ride your bike not what they have. Get a feel for your own machine plus alot aroun here won't give you a card if you use Thier bikes. Just my 1.5 cents and have fun and good luck it's to easy

I have to say, I disagree! You may as well learn on their beaters in case you happen to drop it (it's easy to do when you're learning, even or especially at parking lot speeds!). Not to mention my instructors threatened to kick out one guy who rode his bike to the class with no license. I'm guessing you don't have insurance yet without your motorcycle permit. And how about just riding to the MSF with not much clue how to ride? I can't think of much that would be more dangerous. I really think this is a bad idea, no offense.

I *would* suggest taking time to do some of the drills on your ninjette after the MSF before doing any real street riding -- particularly the straight line braking, swerving, and u-turn drills just to get a feel for it.

[whiteboy]

Originally Posted by LazinCajun

I have to say, I disagree! You may as well learn on their beaters in case you happen to drop it (it's easy to do when you're learning, even or especially at parking lot speeds!). Not to mention my instructors threatened to kick out one guy who rode his bike to the class with no license. I'm guessing you don't have insurance yet without your motorcycle permit. And how about just riding to the MSF with not much clue how to ride? I can't think of much that would be more dangerous. I really think this is a bad idea, no offense.

I *would* suggest taking time to do some of the drills on your ninjette after the MSF before doing any real street riding -- particularly the straight line braking, swerving, and u-turn drills just to get a feel for it.

And I would disagree with you.. Don't ride the bike to the course lol.. Common sence would say load it in a truck and you should have insurance not the bike regardless if you ridding it or not....unless your completely have no coordination at all then you will be fine with it all. Dot be nerves and listen to what the instructors have to say. I'm glad I used my own bike andyhe instictors don't let people use the loaners to get the msg card they are just to learn on. Then you I've to retake the whole course on your own bike agin lol. The reason do this is people go in and get the card on a little 125cc bike that can turn on dimes and then get home to Thier bussas and kill themselfs on the freeway. Every bike is different and you need to be one with it.

[LazinCajun]

I definitely got my MSF card on their motorcycle.

[whiteboy]

Every place is different but that's besides the point. Lol I'm not here to argue which way is best just stating my point of view. Back to topic... Have fun man and learn all you can. If you have a book like I did I recommend maybe a hour max study time and the written test is super easy.. A joke realy. Probly won't need to study but best to be prepared than sry. Some1 here has a video on the box which helped me(in msf on Tuesday thread).

[LazinCajun]

Sorry! I wasn't trying to argue more, I made my point. I just wanted to say that so that any new riders reading didn't think they absolutely need to bring their motorcycles to the MSF

[n4mwd]

Someone with no experience should never get out on the road without training. In my MSF course, there was a kid there who rode his bike to the course and the instructor frowned about it, but let him do it anyway because he was already an experienced rider. He simply took the 5th when asked if he had an endorsement (which everybody knew he didn't).

It really does help though to have a bike you can practice with in a parking lot somewhere. Expect that its going down so wear a helmet and gear. Remember, friction zone and tight, very low speed cornering.

Whiteboy: Please use a spell checker.

[Mr.E]

Im using their bikes because I dont have a bike. I wont until september. Plus its a requirement (or so Im pretty sure) that you use a bike provided for the basic course. Its when u go for the advanced msf that they require you to use your own bike. But thanks for the advice

[Mr.E]

Sorry for the double post, but a question just popped to me. I'm taking my classes from 6pm to 11pm (12am on one night apparently) and originally I was planning on using one of their helmets even though I already have my own (I dont want to be that guy that shows up with completely his own gear and what not lol.) and from what I understand they dont give full face helmets. I was planning on wearing sunglasses originally because I didnt think I'd be able to find a night time class, but I did so what should I do for eyewear? Sunglasses are certainly a no no at this point since it'll be at night. x-(

[kkim]

Personally, if I had my own helmet, I'd take it to class and use it. I wouldn't trust anyone else's cooties mixing with my own.

[Boom King]

+1 on getting your own helmet jus cuz Momma kkim says so and momma knows best

[n4mwd]

Bring your own helmet with a face shield. You don't need eyewear if you have a face shield. However, when I took it, it was pretty hot so I flipped up my face shield and just rode with my regular eyeglasses. Since you apparently don't wear glasses, you will probably want to take the sunglasses as a backup. They have a limited selection of helmets and there is no guarantee that they will have one that fits you properly.

[Mr.E]

Over heating was my main concern. But I guess it'll have to do lol. They give breaks and what not so we can take it off and relax for like 5 min right? Or am I delusional? lol

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by Mr.E

Over heating was my main concern. But I guess it'll have to do lol. They give breaks and what not so we can take it off and relax for like 5 min right? Or am I delusional? lol

Probably depends on your instructor(s). In my course, there weren't that many breaks as they wanted to make the most of the time available. My course was during fall weather so we didn't have to deal with the heat though.

Our instructors were pretty strict with helmets. Even if you weren't on the bike, if you stepped anywhere on that instructional area, your helmet had to be on and strapped. The only time you were allowed to take it off was when you were off to the side on the grass.

[n4mwd]

I see you are in Florida, but I missed where.

They want you covered head to toe while on the range. Long pants and long sleeved shirt. If you have sun sensitivity issues, you'll also want to bring some sunscreen for your face and neck areas - nothing else shows.

I took the course in September. Its was pretty hot, but I think July is worse. Plus, they train rain or shine. I wore a mesh motorcycle jacket. It can be cooler than a long sleeved shirt. The nice thing is that I could take it off when I wasn't actually riding.

We didn't get that many breaks. Maybe one or two while they moved the cones around. A lot of time you have to just sit there on the bike and listen to the instructor. They have hand signals to tell you what to do - return to staging area, neutral, ignition off, dismount, etc.

I know you said you don't have a motorcycle yet, but you can probably find a bicycle and practice super tight turns with that. Its better than nothing. Bicycles are much easier than motorcycles to corner with so don't let it build false confidence. I spoke to the president of MTII before I took my course and he said that pretty much the only people that fail are those that drop out and the ones that have never ridden a bicycle before.

Here is an example of the almost figure 8 box I mentioned earlier. Don't let this guy fool you, its MUCH harder than he makes it look. Notice how slow he goes and his head turning. You'll get yelled at if you don't turn your head for turns.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[CmichRider]

The key to the box really is turning your head, I can't say how many times my coaches told me "look up and turn your head!". I guess they take points off on the test if you don't also.

The box is also worth relatively fewer points than the rest of the tests, as it is a "convenience maneuver" and not safety, like the sudden brake or the 135 degree turn. BTW!...don't pass the blue line on the final exercise on the test (135 degree turn), if you pass the line, they see it as going into oncoming traffic and you get major points off.

This is all just stuff I gathered while talking to people at my MSF, so take it with a grain of salt..I don't think grading varies by state but who knows.