Be kind... please?

[alex.s]

Lately it seems there's been a lot of hate on this forum. even from some members who have been around longer. so in an attempt to reach some of the less friendly members, i figured maybe i would write a thread about the benefits of being kind to others.

I think being kind to others is partially what riding a motorcycle is about. everyone has been in, or will be in a situation where they need the help of others. whether you've been there or not, if you ride a motorcycle you run many risks. mechanical faults, accidents, even running out of gas or money. i've been in many situations where without the help of others, i wouldn't be where i am today. understanding that has led me to believe there's absolutely no need for hate, or being anything but kind to others, especially those who aren't as kind in return. whether you're speaking about someone's beliefs, debating a topic of difference, or trying to inform someone of their faults; there's more than one way to say something. saying something in a way that offends the person you're speaking to does nothing but undermine the point you're trying to make.

when you pass another motorcyclist, you don't wave because you're in a club, or because you're saying "hey nice bike" (well you might also be saying that, but). i believe motorcyclists wave because they both understand the risks and dangers, as well as the rewards of riding. they both understand that if the other was in need of help, they would be there with anything they can offer.

next time you're writing a post, perhaps it would be wise to stop for a second, think about the point you're trying to communicate, make sure you aren't undermining that point by speaking aggressively or offensively, and take a second to adjust your stance to try to see things from the other person's perspective. you might gain some insight as to why someone said something you find offensive or negative. responding to negativity with more negativity does nothing but reduce the conversation into an argument. and arguments are about as productive as burying your head in the ground.

with that said, i admit at times i have taken an offensive stance against others. it's an unfortunate side-effect of being human, it seems. but thankfully most of the time i've taken such a stance, good friends have been around to put some sense back into me. i believe this forum is one of (if not the) kindest motorcycle related forums around. i hope it can stay this way for a long time.

--alex

[phr3ek]

shut up yo face!!!
we dont take kindly to ppl who are kind


jkjk

havent really come across anyone with a stick up they arse
everything is pretty hunky dory for me

i have noticed ppl on this forum are super friendly
but i prefer the wierdos on kawiforums better

[Cazper]

Thats enough out of you Kevin...

That post was very well written Alex and I too will think my next posts out before writing them to make sure I wasn't talking out of the wrong end

[RhinoJC]

I haven't seen what you're referring too, but I don't really spend a whole lot of time here. However, I do understand the point you're trying to make, I just don't necessarily agree with it.

I don't think riders waving to each other really has anything to do with being nice to others, it's simply a matter of people showing appreciation for others who share a common interest. It's the same reason you find truckers congregating together, it's a mutual respect for a commonality.

As far as people taking offense to something posted by another, that has just as much to do with the poster as it has to do with the reader. I'm what some people refer to as a realist. I see things for what they are and I call it like I see it. I don't feel the need to sugar-coat things or coddle others. If people take offense to what I write, that is neither my fault nor my problem. People have the option to completely ignore what I have to say, yet some may chose to be offended by it, while others chose to view it for exactly what it is, my opinion. While I will agree that a little tact may be called for depending on the situation, I think the vast majority of problems would never arise if people would simply grow a thicker skin.

Granted, there's a section of people who do nothing more than try to get under peoples skin. But at the same time, there's a section who take offense and feel attacked if anybody offers a differing opinion. The point is that you aren't going to change human nature and people can only get to you if you let them. Simply put, that's life, get used to it.

Now keep in mind that "you" is being used as a generalization, my post isn't being directed at anyone. Given that, there will be those who will still take offense to what I have said.

[bluesinorbit]

Okay, okay, I'll be nicer. I still won't rewind though. That's where I draw the line.

["A"]

Truth is not pretty. Someone who's honest enough to give you the truth, likely cares more than those who sugarcoat it, worse yet... Lie to you.

[Racer x]

Being kind and polite cost nothing . Being an arse and putting people down cost us all something.Take the high road.it shows class and is just plain cool. Remember the things you say on the web are like pee in a pool .Once it is out there you can't get it back

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by Racer x

Remember the things you say on the web are like pee in a pool .Once it is out there you can't get it back

But sometimes you just gotta go....

[CC Cowboy]

Group Hug!

[Lisa50]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Group Hug!

Count me in!

[scotty]

[Boom King]

Originally Posted by scotty

Don't touch me ... Where's my wallet ?

In all seriousness, I didn't think there was an issue here but maybe I'm not reading the same threads. If this forum is bad, you should visit my local riding forum. It will seem like World War 9 to you. You will always get a few posts of poor form on boards but in general I think this one is pretty good. In any case, good job on the message

[CynicalC]

I don't think anyone here is particularly unkind. On the contrary, there are a few overly-sensitive people here who can't handle some discussions like an adult and perceive any debate to be an "argument". God forbid anything be even slightly controversial, and they cry to Alex to close the thread before they read something that might offend them. :x

Your post comes off as terribly self-righteous.

[setasai]

I dont think anybody is particularly unkind on this forum either. In fact I think think everybody here has a fantastic sense of humor and I frequent here just because the atmosphere is so great.

Has someone in particular offended you? I'm sure if you voiced your feelings to that person, he/she would gladly apologize if anything was interpreted as offensive. Sometimes it's difficult to discern a harmless joke from criticism on forums and much like a relationship, you just need to be clear.

I for one have said a bunch of potentially offensive things with no intention of doing so and have also gladly voiced my apologies if it did.

[zartan]

Alex, I find most here kind but sometimes there are small cycles of nasty that I think is unavoidable. But I appreciate the reminder, thanks!
You took a risk at opening your heart. I respect you for that. Maybe someone will get the point. Maybe not but at least you spread the thought for people to actually think before they write. Good debate is exciting, but trying to debate with someone who has no listening skills makes you wonder if they were raised by wolves. Not that being raised by wolves is a bad thing... just they don't listen very well... Anyway in a world with constant sound bites being thrown out in abundance, It is nice that someone understands that respectful dialog is becoming endangered in the world in general.

[CC Cowboy]

I try to be as rotten as possible but sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

[zartan]

Your rotten is refreshing I don't think I have ever seen you disrespectful... Rotten yes but disrespectful no!

[CC Cowboy]

I'll try harder.

[TnNinjaGirl]

I have seen very little "unkind" behavior. I'll be the first to admit I have been harsh at times, however IMHO I feel it was warranted or it was simply the truth and the reader didn't like hearing it.

With that said I can think of 2 or 3 people who have come on here, been unfriendly and were quickly shooed away by the friendly people on the forum trying to keep it a friendly place. I have seen both KKim and Alex state their opinion in a very solid way which, to some, sounded callous and unfriendly. In some instances I haven't agreed with some of their posts, but they were right.

Really I think the "unfriendly" people are shut down pretty quickly. When they stay around is when they get picked on and called out. Maybe that is what you are seeing?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

I'll try harder.

oscar, we would be lost without your slick sardonicism. keep up the good work

[Alex]

Alex, thx for the post. What I hope for here is that people are free to discuss whatever they like about motorcycling (and anything else) without worrying that every post will be attacked with a vengeance by people who disagree. It should be low stress here. For many members, this is their first motorcycle. For some other members, this may be their first internet forum that they participate in. It is perfectly OK to disagree with somebody, and it's perfectly OK to have those disagreements here online. With any luck, it will be a useful conversation that will help both participants (and anyone else reading) understand a bit more about the topic.

It's easy to write something that will piss somebody off. It's hard to write something to convince someone else to take it on board and consider a different viewpoint, even if only for a moment. If we try for the second avenue, it just makes it more fun to be here. Here's what the terms of service doc includes:

2.1. Members will conduct themselves in a respectful manner. This is not to say that arguments and disagreements between Members are not permitted, simply that a level of respect is to be maintained in doing so. Members' posts should not contain malicious personal attacks, flaming, baiting, trolling, e-sniping, e-stalking, indirect attacks, and other such activities that are not conducive to a positive and productive environment.

That's really it. "You're an idiot" is never going to go as far as "Here's why I think what you're saying is wrong".

/will move this thread to "forum info" in awhile, but it can stay in general for little bit until it dies down.

[Yasko]

The kindness and respect is what sets this site apart from others... This is by far the most respectful forum that I've every seen...

Kawasaki should sponsor this site...

Thank you members...

[ally99]

[Mizono]

I have been a part of ALOT of online forums with a wide range of topics. And without a doubt this is one of the most respectful and helpful forums i have seen. Which as we all know for a internet forum thats a amazing feat. Asking questions here actually yields answers as opposed to pages and pages of flaming or insults. there may be some light hearted jabbing depending on the question but its all in fun. But great post nonetheless.

[FrugalNinja250]

I'd seen what the OP was referring to, the incivility and rude behavior. I put five names on my ignore list and suddenly the problem went away.

It's always a very small but very vocal minority that creates a disproportionate sense of incivility on a forum, and I am truly grateful that this forum offers an ignore function to its users. Other forums where that feature is disabled are very stinky indeed.

[Jinx250]

Come on now... Being nice creates good karma, which pays off eventually, but being a d**k pays off now in satisfaction, yes?

Kidding.

The thing is, it is hard to determine "tone" from an online post, and a lot of the meaning comes from the reader's individual situation. So something that may seem innocuous to the person posting may be interpreted in a totally different manner by the reader.

Like others, I'm 100% against sugar coating the truth, and I think that's one thing that the coutry has gotten waaay wrong. If someone is offended by a post containing a true statement, said in a factual manner, that is the problem of the other person. That being said, there is no reason to be condescending when conveying what YOU believe to be the truth. Not to be confused with having an OPINION that differs from someone else. Each of us has our own opinions, and each is as valid as the next in our own minds. Just because I'm right doesn't de-value your opinion...

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

Just because I'm right doesn't de-value your opinion...

good thing you're never right.

[rockNroll]

bunch o' cry babies

[Jerkson]

I'm just re-posting in this thread to say that I was just playing around when I posted my "search first" comment. I mean no offense and will refrain from posting such silly things in the future.

PS: posted this because my original post was deleted possibly due to someone taking offense.

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by kkim

good thing you're never right.

wut? I'm right at least 70% of the time, and darn close the other 50%...

[Nemesis]

I <3 all y'all!

[peachdiddy]

I don't think I've encountered any 'internet tough guys (or girls)' here yet. So ride on. I love the rapport we all have with each other.

[demp]

This is by far the friendliest motorcycle forum on the web I've encountered, I hope it stays that way for a long time

[ungluck]

def the most straightforward and friendly forum on the intrawebz

but sometimes it is hard to convey emotion and intent through simply reading.

also..being it is a forum..don't take it personally..especially my posts. i hate everything.

[adri99an]

alex.s. I totally understand where you are coming from.....I've felt attacked at times....ridiculed....but I have moved on......and to any member I have offended- I apologize....I'm growing up people!!! But even today as I extend my hand of friendship I cannot get a handshake back.

[almost40]

So was that first post a memo or a mission statement?? Just watched part of Jerry Mequire. lol
group hug is fine with me as long as none of the male menbers here try to grab my A

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by adri99an

alex.s. I totally understand where you are coming from.....I've felt attacked at times....ridiculed....but I have moved on......and to any member I have offended- I apologize....I'm growing up people!!! But even today as I extend my hand of friendship I cannot get a handshake back.

give people time. noone changes over night.

[Liber]

This is always a point of contention between my family and I. I'm VERY critical of myself and that tends to carry over in how I treat others. When someone feels like their opinion is important enough to be shared, then their opinion should be challenged and confronted, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Tip-Toeing around confrontation is akin to dishonesty.

I argue with my friends all the time and we all have an incredible amount of respect for each other because we know we are being completely honest.

I've had it out with people on this BBS and many other forums, and while I'm not going to change their mind, I'm not going to let them express their views without challenging them. When we quit challenging each other and those who have power, then we might as well be slaves.

[Jerkson]

Originally Posted by Liber

This is always a point of contention between my family and I. I'm VERY critical of myself and that tends to carry over in how I treat others. When someone feels like their opinion is important enough to be shared, then their opinion should be challenged and confronted, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. Tip-Toeing around confrontation is akin to dishonesty.

I argue with my friends all the time and we all have an incredible amount of respect for each other because we know we are being completely honest.

I've had it out with people on this BBS and many other forums, and while I'm not going to change their mind, I'm not going to let them express their views without challenging them. When we quit challenging each other and those who have power, then we might as well be slaves.

I agree with this. However, I feel it only works between you and your friends because you can RESPECTFULLY challenge each other and also RESPECTFULLY agree to disagree. My friends and I have a very similar relationship; opinions are challenged but at no time is anyone shown any disrespect.

[Liber]

not saying you are accusing me, but I don't think I've shown anyone on this forum any disrespect, with one exception and they seem to have taken the advice from myself and others to heart.

This forum seems to be exploding in popularity as of late, so we're only going to see more rage outs by people that can's take any criticism. It's part of what a forum is.

Honestly, I like the threads about various states and peoples opinions of them. It's good to have some competition between states. If I don't like your state I will say why(and I've been to most). For instance, I like that Cali has lane sharing and has beautiful weather, but I don't like the fact that they require a helmet to be worn and the cost of living in most places is ridiculous. Plus, their college football sucks, USC can burn and SEC ftw

But that's California, so as long as its laws don't affect me I'm cool with it and I can always be a proponent of the things I like to maybe affect some kind of alteration in my own state.