Ridin' dirty?

[Zombiphone]

So, I've decided to start shopping around for a dirt bike, partially because I hear testing the limits of a dirt bike can in some ways help my street riding skills, and largely because it looks REALLY freaking fun So, since I know a lot of you guys have ridden dirt before and I know next to nothing about it, I thought I might tap into some of those years of hard earned knowledge, if you don't mind sharing.

I sat on a honda crf150r and a kawasaki klx 140 today since they were the only bikes they had at that dealer that looked about my height. Both of them are definitely taller than my ninja, but I could still touch the ground fully on the balls of my feet (If I compressed the suspension another inch, I probably could have easily flat footed both of them). By physical fit, those are the two bikes I'm currently considering (although I'm leaning a bit more towards the Honda, based solely on colors). So, a couple silly newb-tastic questions:

I notice there are a lot of really small displacement dirt bikes. Is a 150/140 considered a lot of bike in dirt bike land? Like, would you reccomend one to a total beginner? Or should I be looking more at the 125 and smaller cc bikes?

How big of a deal is height/flat footing ability on a dirt bike? I mean, would I probably regret getting a bike I can't flat foot, or is that a common thing in dirt bikes? (on a side note, I think some of the bigger dirt bikes are made solely for the 7'+ crowd )

And lastly, did you guys take an msf equivalent for dirt? Is there such a thing? Or is dirt riding more a rogue "get out there and figure it out" kind of deal? Would my street skills (I use that term loosely ) likely help much in tackling the dirt? Or is it a pretty separate skillset?

GRAAAGH! It's bike research time all over again for me >_<

[backinthesaddleagain]

Hi Tiffani,

Some dirt bike info for you. You are right that its a great way to test the limits of riding. Plus the varied terrain is a big help to your street riding. And its fun!

As far as the bikes go there is no comparison between CRF150R and KLX140. CFR150R (and its bigger brothers the 250 and 450) are all out race bikes. The 150R might be gentle off idle, then come on very strong. Think like a 600 supersport's dirt bike equivalent. A 450 mx type dirt bike would be an all out dirtbike. Dirtbikes do have smaller engines (for the most part) but also weigh much less than road bikes. Though there are some 500 and 600+ cc dirtbikes you should stay away from them (for now). The KLX will have a gentler powerband. When you mention 125cc - a KTM or Yamaha YZ125 are 2 stroke race bikes and not beginner friendly. A TTR yamaha 4 stroke on the other hand is like the KLX.

Depedning on the dirt bike you might have 3.5 to 4" of sag when you sit on the bike fully geared (helmet, boots, chest protector, gloves, riding pants and goggles). A KLX or Honda CRF100 or 230 are great bikes as they are beginner friendly and low maintenance. You can often get an XR Honda used (the predecessor to today's CRF) for much less money and so long as the owner has changed oil regulary and cleaned the air filter they are stone cold reliable. Race (MX) bikes cost more and need more maintenance.

I believe there is a MSF course for offroad, though I learned at age 10 on my own, 36 yrs ago.

Good luck in your search.

[Zombiphone]

Oh, I had no idea a the 150 was built to race specs I assumed it was similar performance because of the numbers, but I guess that's just like how a 650 and a 600 supersport are two very different animals. I'll throw that bike into my someday pile. I'll hunt through craigslist for the best deal on one of those tamer bikes then. I hope the KLX comes in some other colors though, but I'll manage. Kawi green will grow on me someday

I was really surprised how much the suspension sank when I simply sat on it. It felt WAAAAY different from my ninja. I didn't even think about the added weight from gear though. An extra 10-20 lbs and a proper boot should set my whole foot quite comfortably on the ground. Good, so no worries there.

That's pretty cool though I wish I had gotten a bike when I was little. I actually didn't learn to ride a regular pedal type bicycle until I was going for my motorcycle license. But I figure I still have plenty of adult life to make up for all the cool things I missed out on I just want to try to start on a user friendly enough vehicle so I can survive long enough in that alleged adult life to enjoy it properly. I might see if I can hunt down a local class to get me started just the same.

Thanks a lot ^_^ I'm pretty excited about this new venture

[Alex]

I've only been on a dirtbike a few times, but definitely looking forward to much more in the future. It will be a way to get the little monster onto his first bike, and Annie is exciting about learning along with him.

[ScraitT]

Since your already riding the ninja, your not a complete beginner (I'd assume you have reasonable throttle and clutch control), Id suggest a Honda CRF230, or a Yamaha TTR230.

I have a CRF230 and the bike is pretty much bulletproof. Very very little maintenance, and it has plenty of power to have fun on. I unfortunately don;t ride the bike much anymore because theres nowhere to ride, but it's an amazing bike.

Honda makes 3 versions of the 230, the F (trail bike), and L (Dual sport), and the M(street). You'll be looking mainly at the F for offroading, but you can also consider the L, which is fairly capable offroad, but it's street legal as well.

KKim also has a 230F (one which he has converted to be street legal I believe), so I'm sure he will have some good advice as well.

[zilaniz]

i also recommend the crf230 it is a nice dirt bike to start on.

As far as other dirt bikes if you are looking used and older I would suggest a 4 stroke the powerband is a lot more smoother than 2 strokes.

Also dirtbikes are split into two different catagories, trail(which is what you will want) and motorcross which are race bikes.

[kkim]

yes... recommending a dirt bike is largely dependent on where you plan to ride. Do you have a nice ORV park in your area that you plan to truck the bike to and from or are you looking to ride it there and back. Also, are you looking to do motocross or any type of racing with the bike? that will make a big difference in what you should be looking for.

let me know what you plan to do and I can make a bunch of recommendations.

[CC Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Zombiphone

REALLY freaking fun
I sat on a honda crf150r and a kawasaki klx 140 today since they were the only bikes they had at that dealer that looked about my height. Both of them are definitely taller than my ninja, but I could still touch the ground fully on the balls of my feet (If I compressed the suspension another inch, I probably could have easily flat footed both of them). By physical fit, those are the two bikes I'm currently considering (although I'm leaning a bit more towards the Honda, based solely on colors). So, a couple silly newb-tastic questions:

Or is it a pretty separate skillset?

GRAAAGH! It's bike research time all over again for me >_<

Dirt bikes need suspension to give back the fun factor. Don't even think about touching the ground (flat foot or balls) while sitting on the bike. You only need to be able to touch with one foot (enough to hold the bike up).

Skillset is just about the opposite of riding on the street. Buy a couple dirt bike magazines and look at the fun you can have.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by Zombiphone

Oh, I had no idea a the 150 was built to race specs I assumed it was similar performance because of the numbers, but I guess that's just like how a 650 and a 600 supersport are two very different animals. I'll throw that bike into my someday pile. I'll hunt through craigslist for the best deal on one of those tamer bikes then. I hope the KLX comes in some other colors though, but I'll manage. Kawi green will grow on me someday

I was really surprised how much the suspension sank when I simply sat on it. It felt WAAAAY different from my ninja. I didn't even think about the added weight from gear though. An extra 10-20 lbs and a proper boot should set my whole foot quite comfortably on the ground. Good, so no worries there.

That's pretty cool though I wish I had gotten a bike when I was little. I actually didn't learn to ride a regular pedal type bicycle until I was going for my motorcycle license. But I figure I still have plenty of adult life to make up for all the cool things I missed out on I just want to try to start on a user friendly enough vehicle so I can survive long enough in that alleged adult life to enjoy it properly. I might see if I can hunt down a local class to get me started just the same.

Thanks a lot ^_^ I'm pretty excited about this new venture

Good analogy regarding the 600/650 regarding the 150/140. Like street bikes dirt bikes depreciate fast (probably faster). It might be tough to find a good used one, but if the seller seems reputable and has changed the oil, cleaned the airfilter (very important on a dirt bike) then you can check for the other key things (wheels have no loose or broken spokes and run true, bars aren't bent, footpegs aren't mashed, for bikes that have frame tubes under the engine the tubes shouldn't be mashed, minimal dents on exhaust pipe). Best buys are usually outgrew, no time to ride, no where to ride, etc. My favorite was "never raced (but merilessly flogged on a daily basis)" - kidding. There have been great used buys of former race bikes that were raced one season, and meticulously maintained. I had a friend who raced a kawi 125 in some nationals ans sc with unlimited funds, he changed his clutch disks every week and another friend put them in his bike to use at the local races. But i would avoid such a bike for now and look at the 230 Honda.

[Reswob]

I don't know what they have for dirt biking in CA, but in the woody VA mountains, I'd get a 150F over the 230F. I've ridden both and the 150 feels so much lighter and more maneuverable, and you can't use the extra power of the bigger bike anyway unless you've got wide open desert or something.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Good point above - I forgot honda has a 150F. The 150R is the race bike, the 150F is the trail bike. The 150F would be a good starter bike, and about $1K cheaper than the 150R. I don't think the 230 would be too much power for tight woods riding. Now an XR650 would be. For years an XR200 or XR250 was a good all around trail bike in the tight woods of new england.

[Zombiphone]

Yeah, I'm now leaning more towards the 230 right now, either in yamaha or honda trim. The popular consensus throughout the internet seems to be that those're both incredibly reliable and fun- and I'm a fan of both of those things Wait, so there's also 150f and a 150r? Goddammit there's a lot to learn in dirt bikes. I think I'm going to go by a bigger dealer today just to get a feel for all the options, then come home and find everything I can about the bikes that feel more my speed. I prefer to go used so I can stretch my money a bit further, but hopefully I'll be able to find one that doesn't need it's starting value in repairs. I saw one on craigslist where the guy said he bought it new for his wife, but she road it once and found she hated dirt riding so passionately, that it pisses her off to simply know it exists in her house. So as such, he really wants to sell it as fast as he can. I never know what stories are true, but craigslist never ceases to be entertaining

Originally Posted by drsketch

btw I hope you plan on doing some jumps

Hell yes

Originally Posted by kkim

yes... recommending a dirt bike is largely dependent on where you plan to ride. Do you have a nice ORV park in your area that you plan to truck the bike to and from or are you looking to ride it there and back. Also, are you looking to do motocross or any type of racing with the bike? that will make a big difference in what you should be looking for.

let me know what you plan to do and I can make a bunch of recommendations.

Well, I'm ultimately most interested in eventually doing the jumps and motocross style tracks, but I figure it'll likely be a while until I'm comfortable enough riding in the dirt to get on one. If there's a decent entry level bike that can do that style of riding well enough for a total newb, then that's what I'm looking for. But if most of the more beginner friendly bikes are better for riding trails and such, I figure I'd still have plenty of fun doing that and can always pick up a more aggressive bike down the line when I'm more used to the style.

There are a couple of different offroading places within driving distance from me, so I'll probably be trailering out to those for the most part. I really want a dual sport, but those aren't quite in my budget right now, and I don't want to have to add the price of insuring another vehicle to my bills right now anyways. I definitely plan to street track a motard someday though

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Dirt bikes need suspension to give back the fun factor. Don't even think about touching the ground (flat foot or balls) while sitting on the bike. You only need to be able to touch with one foot (enough to hold the bike up).

Skillset is just about the opposite of riding on the street. Buy a couple dirt bike magazines and look at the fun you can have.

That explains why a lot of those bikes are so incredibly tall then. So it's actually BETTER if I can't flat foot it? I'm only 5'6", so I was thinking I'd be a bit limited in what sizes I could ever really handle, but that actually opens up my options quite a bit.

Yep, sounds like I still have a lot of reading to so. In the meantime, however- To youtube! I've jealousy and awe to build!

Wow, a lot of useful information here! Thanks a lot everyone

[ScraitT]

The CRF150F is a good bike too...it's almost identical to the 230F, just a smaller size. However, if you plan on jumping, I'd go with the 230 instead for more suspension. BUT if your serious about jumping, even the 230 will come up short if you looking at bigger stuff.

There are trail/offroad bikes (the CRF230F, etc) and then there are motocross bikes (the CRF250R, etc). Motocross bikes are race bikes, and they are build for the track with TONS of suspension travel (you'll never flatfoot one). Offroad bikes are built for trails....decent suspension, but not a ton because when your in tight spaces you need to put a foot down occasionally.

I'm still going to suggest the 230F over anything. Firstly, they are reasonably priced. Second, they are virtually no maintenance (motocross bikes require a TON of maintenance if you ride a lot). Third, I think it'll be the best all arounder with the best power band for everyday riding.
Then later IF you got into motocross and enjoyed it, you could trade up for a 250 or such.

I would also highly highly suggest a USED bike. Never buy a dirtbike new, especially if its your first bike. You will drop it, you will beat it up....it's made for that. I picked my CRF230F up (3 years old at the time) for 1200. It was beat up and needed new wheel bearing, but it runs like a champ. You can find one used in almost perfect condition for 1700 around here.
The 230s are perfect used, because theres really no maintenance that people can skip to screw it up. Even oil changes...it takes a LONG time to really forget the oil and screw the bike up because people don't put tons of miles on a dirtbike usually. 230s are air cooled, so there really isn't anything else to do besides the oil changes.

[kkim]

Tiff,

I would highly recommend a Honda CRF150F for you. At your height, you might be able to just barely touch the ground. They are sized for a person about your height, have great reliability and if you buy an 06+ model, they come with electric start. The earlier versions didn't and a 4 stroke engine can be intimidating for new riders to get them started when you drop the bike after a crash. Aftermarket support is plentiful and share the same frame as the 230F.

The best thing is that the 150F has a very friendly power delivery and is a very easy bike to ride for a beginner. As you progress, there are mods that you can do to fix whatever shortcoming you may encounter.

The bad points (as w/ many bikes in this play bike/trail bike class) are that the suspension is soft for full speed riding, it weighs a lot for a 150 (about 20 lbs less than the 230F), the pegs are set pretty wide apart and you will get hung up where most full sized bikes have dug ruts up hillsides and like the Ninja 250R, emissions requirements have clogged up the bike and you will need to rejet after removing some bits and pieces from the intake and exhaust to get decent power out of it.

Don't buy your first dirt bike with the intent of keeping it forever. Learn the basics on it and look for something more suitable for your riding skill level as it progresses after a few seasons.

As such, many have done the same and used bike bargains should abound, especially in this play bike class. As mentioned, many riders lose interest and there are some almost brand new, used bikes sitting around in peoples' garages. Be patient, have money in hand and be ready at a moments notice and you'll be able to snag a great bargain when the opportunity presents itself. Watch out for the beat up, well used bikes, though... you don't want to end up buying someone else's problems.

I own a 07 150F and have modded the hell out of it to make it a serious trail bike. The only shortcoming I've not been able to overcome is the low peg height and it has become a hindrance/danger when on some very technical trails. As such, I just purchased a used trail bike yesterday to supplement the stable in the garage.

Life is good... enjoy it and go out there and do it in the dirt... you won't be a sorry. Same basics as street riding~ ATGATT.

[backinthesaddleagain]

KKim makes a good point about electric start. I never had a dirt bike with one but it would be awesome if you are in a rocky area or on a hill where the footing is tough and need to restart the bike you can just push a button.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

KKim makes a good point about electric start. I never had a dirt bike with one but it would be awesome if you are in a rocky area or on a hill where the footing is tough and need to restart the bike you can just push a button.

yep... exactly. But just know you need to keep your battery in tip top shape. I always have my bikes hooked up to a Battery Tender Jr. as they sit in the garage. That way I know I start off each ride with a fully charged battery. These bikes have no kickstarter as a backup.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by kkim

yep... exactly. But just know you need to keep your battery in tip top shape. I always have my bikes hooked up to a Battery Tender Jr. as they sit in the garage. That way I know I start off each ride with a fully charged battery. These bikes have no kickstarter as a backup.

Though isn't there some fun right of passage kickstarting a bike that Tiffani might miss? At age 9 I had a pull start mini bike. Ah the joy of pulling 5 or 6 times to get it to fire. It would throw the chain and its muffler would burn your leg regularly. When I got my Honda at age 10 the coolest thing was kicking that baby over -and it started.

I think it was probably mid 70's before most brands starting pulling the kickstarters off of their roadbikes??? They had them there as backups for a while.

[kkim]

I know of many a new rider that have given up on riding due to the difficulty of starting a bike. That the newer generation bikes come with electric starters will only encourage more participation in the future. Hook them on riding first, then expose them to the agony of kick starting a bike in their later years.

The bike I bought yesterday has only kick starting and it refused to start after each and every crash. Damn... I HATE that!! I was tempted to take out my lighter and set it on fire many a time if it wasn't such a long walk back to the truck.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by kkim

I know of many a new rider that have given up on riding due to the difficulty of starting a bike. That the newer generation bikes come with electric starters will only encourage more participation in the future. Hook them on riding first, then expose them to the agony of kick starting a bike in their later years.

The bike I bought yesterday has only kick starting and it refused to start after each and every crash. Damn... I HATE that!! I was tempted to take out my lighter and set it on fire many a time if it wasn't such a long walk back to the truck.

What did you buy yesterday - GasGas?

Ever see the 450 4strk mx riders crash then kick the things constantly while 10 riders go by - cant be any fun, no time to find TDC either. I had a CR500 (2 strk) that was a beast to start, then someone showed me to tip it on its side, prior to kicking and it lit right up.

[kkim]

yep... 03 GasGas Pampera 280. High compression, two stroke motor that is a bitch to kick over to begin with. Try kicking it 10 times w/ no luck each time you drop the bike and you're ready to shoot that thing by the end of the day. I wish all dirt bikes came with electric starters like my 2 Hondas do.

Which is why I suggested an electric start bike to Tiff.

[ScraitT]

I hate you Kkim! I miss riding I wish there was places left here to ride, but idiots have destroyed everything. We used to have one of the greatest places to ride, the everglades. Largest playground you could imagine. But idiot riders ended that by racing their ATVs on the roadways and killing themselves, so its closed to OHVs now.

So to the OP. If/when you find a bike, please ride respectfully so your riding areas don;t end up closed like places down here are. I don't have a single legal place left to ride that I'm aware of without driving 3+ hours. My bike has sat so long that the battery is dead.

Go to a local honda dealership and jump on a 150F and 230F and see how they feel. I'm only 5'8, 150 lbs and the 230 feels perfect to me. Best bet it to sit on them both and see how they feel.

[kkim]

Tyler,

I'm very sorry to hear that about no riding areas... please read what I posted in another thread.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=110

[thurt88]

No two stroke love ?? Nothing even comes close to the smell of a 2- stroke at a mx track. Id suggest getting a used KX125- 250 and just ring its neck on the track or trail. The hardest thing for you to get used to is keeping your leg out while turning because on the street... you just dont do that.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Love 2 strokes. Race gas with castrol R (aka bean oil which no one runs today) is the best smell. Don't think KX125 or 250 is a good fit for her right now.
Posted via Mobile Device

[backinthesaddleagain]

BTW KDX200 was a great 2 stroke woods bike. If I wanted one today it would be the KTM 150XC.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ScraitT]

Originally Posted by kkim

Tyler,

I'm very sorry to hear that about no riding areas... please read what I posted in another thread.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...&postcount=110

Already read it And pretty much agree 100%, which is why my can is still stock and will remain that way

Originally Posted by thurt88

No two stroke love ?? Nothing even comes close to the smell of a 2- stroke at a mx track. Id suggest getting a used KX125- 250 and just ring its neck on the track or trail. The hardest thing for you to get used to is keeping your leg out while turning because on the street... you just dont do that.

For trail riding and having fun...2 strokes are too much maintenance to me. On a track, they are great, and well worth the maintenance. But for someone learning, a nice maintenance free 4 stroke is perfect, it just doesn't get any easier. Later on after getting used to offroad riding, if he gets into tracking, then he could look for a 2 stroke and have the fun of dealing with the top end being checked/replaced every few months. It's easy work from what I read, but compared to an air cooled 4 stroke, its a ton of maintenance.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

BTW KDX200 was a great 2 stroke woods bike. If I wanted one today it would be the KTM 150XC.
Posted via Mobile Device

have you checked the seat height on both of those bikes?

I've owned the earlier model air cooled KDX200s (84 and 87) and even then the seat height was too much for me. I've always have had to shave the seats to make my dirt bikes work for me in the trails. I'm a short rider (5'7") with a 28-29" inseam.

[ScraitT]

Wow, I just realized from a previous post that the OP is a girl. Never even looked at the name

I might change my recommendation to the 150F instead of the 230F now. Simply because the 150 is a little lighter and the weight is lower, making it easier to maneuver.
Then later if you really enjoy the 150 and want to move up, consider the 230.

There are definitely bigger faster bikes after that, but I find it pointless since you rarely get in the upper gears offroad. And as far as down low, my 230 will lift the front wheel up by just twisting the throttle...so can't see much more power being usable.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

Already read it And pretty much agree 100%, which is why my can is still stock and will remain that way



For trail riding and having fun...2 strokes are too much maintenance to me. On a track, they are great, and well worth the maintenance. But for someone learning, a nice maintenance free 4 stroke is perfect, it just doesn't get any easier. Later on after getting used to offroad riding, if he gets into tracking, then he could look for a 2 stroke and have the fun of dealing with the top end being checked/replaced every few months. It's easy work from what I read, but compared to an air cooled 4 stroke, its a ton of maintenance.

Agreed for trail riding a bike such as a CRF150F, but actually for MX the cost to race a 4 stroke far exceeds a 2 stroke. Honda actually recommends a top end AND bottom end rebuild after 80 hours of racing the CRF450 (granted thats a lot of 20 minute motos, but add in practice). Valve adjustments are frequent (though easier), and oil changes are frequent. A 2 stroke rebuild consisting of piston, rings, bore and hone, and gaskets are much cheaper. Remember that the F type bikes are descendants of the low stressed and bullet proof XR type of bikes, the R model bikes are all out racing machines which are stressed and revved.

[ScraitT]

Ya I've read that the new 4 stroke racers are a nightmare. 2 strokes are a lot of maintenance, but it's easy to rebuild, so it was never a bit deal, especially if you raced and were used to it.

The old XR engines have to be one of the best engines made. I have a 94 xr80 that runs better then the ninja does. It sits for month and months, sometimes YEARS at a time without being touched, but it will start first kick every time and run perfectly without waiting for it to warm up. The bike amazes me.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by ScraitT

Ya I've read that the new 4 stroke racers are a nightmare. 2 strokes are a lot of maintenance, but it's easy to rebuild, so it was never a bit deal, especially if you raced and were used to it.

The old XR engines have to be one of the best engines made. I have a 94 xr80 that runs better then the ninja does. It sits for month and months, sometimes YEARS at a time without being touched, but it will start first kick every time and run perfectly without waiting for it to warm up. The bike amazes me.

Oh yeah that XR80 motor is rock solid. When I was a kid Jeff Ward raced the XR75 and everyone was making pipes, cams, etc.

[Zombiphone]

Well, I went to a dealer and sat on everything yesterday. I was on my toes on the 230 and I was still on my toes, but almost on the balls of my feet for the 150f. Neither seemed too unmanageable height wise though. If both are decently user friendly, I think I'm going to go with whichever one I find for a good price that's in good shape. I'm leaning more towards the 150f, but if I happen upon a nice, inexpensive 230 first, I'll probably get it. On a side note, the weight of a dirt bike compared to a street bike is ridiculous. It's like I'm mounting a broom stick or something :P

Yep, just like when I bought my 250 while I was still lusting over that sexy 600RR, I figured this'll be my first bike, but by no means my last bike. It doesn't have to be the best at anything but being user friendly. I've heard a number of stories of kickstarting woes though, so yeah, electric start sounds really good. I kinda want to try it just to see how the old timers used to suffer, but I'll go with convenience for now Haha, technology spoils me

I got to try on a bunch of gear and everything yesterday too. I'm not gonna lie, I've never considered shopping something fun, but I feel like such a kid in a candy store when I'm looking at gear

Oh, also, is the yamaha 230 pretty much the same as the honda reliability/performance wise? I've seen a couple seemingly good deals on TTR 230s, but I'm still trying to find the crf based on a slight aesthetic affinity for hondas. Unfortunately, I have a car to sell before I can actually buy anything, but hopefully I'll be rid of that by the end of the week. Goddamn, after reading all this, now I really can't wait to get my hands dirty

[backinthesaddleagain]

Tiffani,
The bike should sag a bit 3-4" when you sit on it. If the preload is set near the softest side of its range and it doesn't sag you might be able to get a softer spring. I am not very familiar with the CRF trail bikes. KKIM has the 230 as he posted above. On many competition oriented dirt bikes there is a wide range of preload adjustment and ligher/heavier springs to choose from. Of course the seat foam could also be shaved. Not too familiar with the TTR's reliability, just hard to be the Honda for rock solid reliability.

[Zombiphone]

Oh, wow. They definitely didn't sag anywhere near that much at their settings. I have a 29-30" inseam, so they were already decently manageable, but with some adjustments, I'll be more than comfortable with the 32 or 34 inch seat heights of the 150 and 230 respectively. Cool.

Yeah, and I also really like the Honda red, but I keep seeing really good deals on the Yamahas. Eh, I'm patient enough I suppose, and the tried and proven reliability is a pretty worthy selling point. Hopefully by the time I have the money set aside a nice honda'll pop up then

[ScraitT]

I haven't been on any new ones, but the Yamaha and Hondas were completely different when I was looking. Honda had a much newer sleeker design which resulted in a higher, but narrower seat, while yahama had a wider lower seat.

But I believe when I was looking, it was still the Yamaha TTR225 (back in 2005). After the redesign, I think Yamaha bumped it to the TTR230 (noone wants a lower number then their competition!), and I think the bike is pretty much identical seating wise to the Honda now.

Yamaha also has the TTR125 that you could look at...which would be their similar version to the honda 150.

With yamaha, just look for the TTR for trail bikes, their mx bikes are labels YZF (such as a yzx125 or yzf250). With honda it's a bit harder, you have to look for an F after the number (the crf80f is trail and the crf80r is mx).

As for reliability, that's hondas game. Thats what they have ALWAYS been known for, and I'm a honda fan for it...I've never owned another bike for offroading. However, that said, I wouldn't pass up on a yamaha. They have been around forever as well, and I know many friends that have had yamahas and never had an issue. In reality, they are probably just as good as a honda, so don;t look past them.

[kkim]

Tiff,

For me, the weight difference between the CRF230F and 150F makes a huge difference. It's not much, but when you need to pick up the bike after (multiple) spills, you'll appreciate the lighter bike.

On the 150, I've shaved the seat to make it even lower and the result is a nice 3/4 sized bike that can zip on the trails and is relatively light and very maneuverable. They even have bolt on aftermarket kits that can turn your +06 150F into a 225cc bike, should you end up absolutely loving it and want to keep it forever.

On the 230, they do sell a lowering link that I have on my bike, but again, the biggest enemy of this bike is the weight and size for a person of your height.

If you can find an accommodating shop, ask to have them lay down the bike on it's side and see how much effort it takes you to get the bike upright again. You'll immediately feel the weight difference between the two bikes. Don't fool yourself... you will end up picking the bike up multiple times during a days ride in your learning phase. Ask me how I know.

In that light, wear good gear for protection. Doesn't need to be the fanciest, latest gear... last year's closeouts (or even older) are a great way to go.

I love Yamaha dirt bikes... have owned 3 or 4 in my years, but IMHO the Honda CRF 150/230 "F" models are the way to go in terms of reliability and aftermarket support. If all else is equal, go with the Honda. Plus, if you ever need help, I'm just a PM away.

good luck... if you love racing the 250 ninja on the track, you will absolutely love the freedom and thrills riding a dirt bike affords you.

Highly recommended CRF 230F/150F forum...
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=73