DIY: Installing the Ecotrons EFI Kit on a Pregen

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by curioussavage

after watching the install video I learned my bike is a california bike. I had no idea (i live in salt lake city, ut) im assuming that might be partly why it runs like crap???? anyways i have barely used any forum at all and have a hard time searching them. is there a thread about how to install the kit on a california bike? or how is it different with the petcock??

The video goes over that. Generally is easier to install a kit when you have a California bike.

[lgk]

whats the inlet diameter of the new pump?

[choneofakind]

Hey D,

I finally watched the last 15 minutes of your install vid. I like how you did your wiring harness. I ended up with a little mess of wires right at the front of my air box that I'll probably go smooth out now that I've seen yours.

Would you be able to make a video that goes from a cold start and then idles until the bike reaches 70+ degrees and the warm-up enrichment ramps off? Or at least the first minute of warm-up? I'm curious to see how that compares to mine and what I should expect with the air box on it now.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Hey D,

Would you be able to make a video that goes from a cold start and then idles until the bike reaches 70+ degrees and the warm-up enrichment ramps off? Or at least the first minute of warm-up? I'm curious to see how that compares to mine and what I should expect with the air box on it now.

Your new avatar is downright freaky. What happened to that cute frog?

Anyway, a cold start down here is going to start at about 80F right now so I wouldn't be able to make a video like that until next fall. But I could probably just record it in procal and email it to you. I don't think a video of the warmup would be that useful. Mine is still hunting at times too. Are you having issues with that?

[choneofakind]

I responded about my avatar in another thread for you

hey, an 80 degree start is fine by me. The engine is still cold, that's the important part.

Sending me procal logs sounds fine. I finally have a procal that I can run without a CD!!!! I downloaded the newest copy from the website.

Heh... ummm, I haven't ridden since September-ish. I don't have the bike with me at school, and the weather has been downright crummy both times I've been home since then. I'll get back to riding mid-May. As of last time I rode it, it only hunted a little bit at idle when it was warming up. Once I ride ~ 5-10 minutes, it's fine for the rest of the ride. I hope that installing the air box and closing the air screws a bit helps with that.

I'm also debating a kill switch for my headlight because I now have LED running lights on front so I'd be legal-ish. That would help me cut power use further during the day time. I'm still not convinced on the power thing.

[n4mwd]

I've been hearing reports that the cops have been harassing bikers with blue running lights. If yours are blue, better watch out.

I'll see what I can do about getting you that recording. Its may be a few days.

On mine, it wont charge when idling so the alternator can't put out enough power at idle. I am not convinced that the PO didn't replace the headlight bulb with a superbright. Those are a no-no, especially with EFI.

You can check your charge just by measuring the voltage at idle. It should be about 13.5V and no lower than 12.7V. I've heard of people trying to replace their alternators with bigger coils, but most have been unsuccessful.

I still haven't forgotten about my tip over switch in the relay project. I think it would also be possible to use a transistor to make the fuel pump run slower at idle and hence, save current.

[choneofakind]

Mine are white no worries. I don't do that colored stuff.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/pictu...pictureid=9775

Yeah, the 35W HID made a big difference. I've been debating doing a EU-spec newgen stator swap. Not sure if I'm ready for that though. I'd have to have that imported, then take apart the engine. It would definitely solve my power issue though.

Does pulling the socket off the headlight make a difference in how your bike acts? I know pulling the O2 sensors and putting it in RICH mode makes a significant difference. When I pulled the headlight and let it idle for like 10 minutes while I synced my TB's based on the O2 sensor readout, the idle never hunted once, even with blipping.

[n4mwd]

I never thought of that. I'm going to try pulling the headlight fuse and see if that makes a difference. I have been thinking in terms of air leaks and mixtures, but it could very well be a battery charge issue. I already know that it wont start reliably with a marginal battery. The same battery that wouldn't work for the EFI bike is now working in the carbed bike just fine.

[choneofakind]

Give it a try. I'm pretty sure this is a power usage thing. That's why the bike doesn't like idling for long periods of time without getting ridden. With the EFI, the battery is lierally for starts only.

Reducing the wattage of the headlight helped me a lot but isn't perfect. I either need to reduce further or get a more capable stator. I'm hoping removing the O2 sensors once everything is tuned perfectly will help enough that I don't have to do anything drastic like run with just LED's as my running light.

[drphils87]

I forget how much I hate welding. Just to let you know I tried to do it like you did in the video, but yeah I just ended up using a unibit and holding the o2 and nut in the hole and tacking it on. WHY CAN'T MY WELDS LOOK AS GOOD AS THE ORGINAL WELDS ON THE EXHAUST??? I will cover my pipes with exhaust wrap and shame... but that was the plan anyway because my friend gave me some sick neon lights that I will put on the inside that might get heat damage. Also I noticed some serious leakage between the engine and head of the pipe, so I've made some gaskets for it. Nothing's warped thank god, so I put it back on, and I'm ready to keep riding tomorrow. I'm only waiting on those damn elbows. It's funny because there in the town next to the one I live in. This was the only day I had to work on it for another week. FML

[drphils87]

Why did you call him a frog? He looks more like a screaming monkey, no offence...

Edit: I read that wrong. You must of had a cute frog for your picture or something. Wish I had I camera. This will just have to do.

[Yasko]

Originally Posted by mgithens

how much would you approximate you had to spend to "complete kit?

+1????

[Red250R]

i've only spent $90 so far on extra pieces, some of which i don't even need because i realized afterwards that theres no bubbler line so that erases a little bit. The only last couple pieces i need is the fuel pump clamp, a couple extra fuel line clamps, and then some fuel hose to run to the tank and back. But the majority of that is only because i'm upgrading pieces that are already in the kit to better, longer-lasting parts. You CAN put this together with everything that Ecotrons sends you, but as n4mwd, choneofakind, drphils87, and myself, we're kinda working on a standardized way of an installation so theres a "for-sure" way of installation that we can all base our problems on together.

[Red250R]

And i forgot that i dont have the right sh*t for my tig welder to successfully weld on the bungs to stainless. completely forgot about that one. Theres a guy around the corner from me that my father goes to every once in a while that'll do it cheap i'm sure. So i guess i have to add that into the final price too.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by drphils87

I will cover my pipes with exhaust wrap and shame...

Coat them in high temp ceramic paint first. Welded spots in the headers have a habit of getting a little oxidized. High temp paint will prevent that from happening underneath the heat wrap.

Oh, and n4mwd is the install-standards guy. I'm the one attempting to improve the parameters loaded onto the ECU. My install is not nearly as thought-out as D's. I took a few ideas from his install, but mine's not modular; it's just tacked onto the front of the air box, but it uses different fuel line, different clamps, a few elbows/u-bends, etc.

[n4mwd]

The exhaust headers on the pregen are not stainless. They are nickel plated regular steel. I don't know if that is true of the newgen, but I suspect so. If you have an area P or other replacement header system, then I don't know. You can check it by seeing if a magnet will stick to it. Magnets don't stick good to stainless.

The cable holder and the connecting bar on the throttle body are both stainless. You can use a magnet on them to verify.

Anyhow, when I welded the bungs on my pregen, I just used regular steel rods with my oxy-acetylene torch.

The bungs are kind of frustrating because you have to do a lot of pull it off then put if back on then repeat, stuff.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

Why did you call him a frog? He looks more like a screaming monkey, no offence...

Edit: I read that wrong. You must of had a cute frog for your picture or something. Wish I had I camera. This will just have to do.

His Ninja is green so he had a picture of a cute green frog. Then he made Alex mad and the frog got magically transformed into a dunce. Then he changed it to his bike and now he's a greek monkey.

Anyhow, I use my cell phone camera for most everything. In fact, much of the video I used in the EFI video was shot with my cell phone camera.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

His Ninja is green so he had a picture of a cute green frog. Then he made Alex mad and the frog got magically transformed into a dunce. Then he changed it to his bike and now he's a greek monkey.

I didn't make Alex mad. We just both have a sense of humor, that's all.

[Red250R]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The exhaust headers on the pregen are not stainless. They are nickel plated regular steel. I don't know if that is true of the newgen, but I suspect so. If you have an area P or other replacement header system, then I don't know. You can check it by seeing if a magnet will stick to it. Magnets don't stick good to stainless.

The cable holder and the connecting bar on the throttle body are both stainless. You can use a magnet on them to verify.

Anyhow, when I welded the bungs on my pregen, I just used regular steel rods with my oxy-acetylene torch.

The bungs are kind of frustrating because you have to do a lot of pull it off then put if back on then repeat, stuff.

Yeah i know. I don't plan on welding O2 bungs onto my stock exhaust. I'm looking around for a full exhaust since my rigged straight pipe wont cut it. Several, if not most/all aftermarket are stainless. But yeah, steel i would have no problem with.

[drphils87]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Coat them in high temp ceramic paint first. Welded spots in the headers have a habit of getting a little oxidized. High temp paint will prevent that from happening underneath the heat wrap.

I was going to use a silicone coating on the pipe, wrap it, then spray it again. I have the loud ass gp1 and it's nickel plated the stock exhaust is stainless. I did take a good amount of the plating off when I tried to clean up my sh8tty ass welds. Am I doing good soo far?

[choneofakind]

All I know is I'm going to sand the rust off the bungs and paint them with high temp black paint. The bungs have gotten oxidized, the aftermarket headers are doing just fine so far.

[drphils87]

So how do I get a picture for my profile. I've uploaded one picture to here, but I don't know how to get it to go in the profile picture spot. My phone has a camera! I will try to get it to work.

[choneofakind]

Go to edit options, then edit avatar.

[drphils87]

I'm not seeing edit options anywhere. Is it in the my profile section cause that's the main place I'm looking.

[choneofakind]

Top right of screen: Quick links. in the drop tap from quick links, select edit options.

[drphils87]

So I was going through the video comparing the my brackets I made from your design and I noticed you have an extra hole in the bigger pressure regulator bracket piece. I can see now that it doesn't need that hole anyway... Just want to make sure though.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Red250R

Yeah i know. I don't plan on welding O2 bungs onto my stock exhaust. I'm looking around for a full exhaust since my rigged straight pipe wont cut it. Several, if not most/all aftermarket are stainless. But yeah, steel i would have no problem with.

If you are going to change out your exhaust, the Area-P exhaust systems have a really good reputation for the Ninjette. They give more HP, but my assumption is that they also burn more gas as well.

Originally Posted by drphils87

So I was going through the video comparing the my brackets I made from your design and I noticed you have an extra hole in the bigger pressure regulator bracket piece. I can see now that it doesn't need that hole anyway... Just want to make sure though.

The large hole in the larger bracket isn't needed. The original bracket I made didn't have the smaller piece on top. This caused the regulator to sit too low and I couldn't get the electrical connector on the injector. So I made a little "booster seat" for the regulator to sit on. I didn't feel like making a whole new bracket for the video.

But to answer the question, the big hole in the bigger bracket is optional. Its only advantage is that it might make zip-tying the regulator a little easier. Its definitely not necessary for the assembly. However, the hole in the little "booster seat" bracket is necessary because the metal part of the regulator protrudes through that when the regulator is tied down.

Also, make sure all your threaded fittings are nice and tight. The thread sealer helps a little, but you need to let it air dry a few minutes before you screw in the fittings. Then make sure the final assembly gets to cure a few days in a warm location before you put any gasoline in it.

[Red250R]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

If you are going to change out your exhaust, the Area-P exhaust systems have a really good reputation for the Ninjette. They give more HP, but my assumption is that they also burn more gas as well.

Yeah i was thinking Area-P but at the same time, the differences in gains between the brands (LV, Area-P, Tyga, Totsubo, etc.) are minimal right? The top brands can only be slightly different. The major difference is sound. A couple horsepower difference is kinda "meh". But at the same time, I want the horsepower but i also do not want to spend $800 on a full system. I know the Area-P is a nice middle ground because its just above $400 with very nice gains. But the Tyga is about $100 cheaper yet nearly the same gains. The LeoVince is upwards of $800. So many options with minimal differences right?

[drphils87]

Is that sealer suppose to stay sticky or does it harden somewhat. I took it in the house thinking it was set up after a day but it wasn't so now I got that sh8t on the counter.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

Is that sealer suppose to stay sticky or does it harden somewhat. I took it in the house thinking it was set up after a day but it wasn't so now I got that sh8t on the counter.

Get some ethyl alcohol from the drug store and use it to wipe it clean. It dissolves in ethanol. It stays tacky for a long time, but the idea is to get it to set up inside the threads and make a gasket to keep the gas from running out.

[drphils87]

I did a bad thing. So my straight barb didn't want to screw in so I tried to force it resulting in a cross thread. I did try for a good five minutes about a week ago to get it in there and then another 10 mins. I don't have any patience so yeah it happened. Without even thinking if it would dissolve I jb welded it. I looked it up and it says it won't weaken it and of course it can withstand the pressure. I am 100% certain it was the right size. It fit on the other side where the test port goes and wouldn't fit in a 1/4 npt fitting. What gives? Up yours karma.

I have a habit of jb welbing anything that leaks if can get it to stop. Damn oil and water guages.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

I did a bad thing. So my straight barb didn't want to screw in so I tried to force it resulting in a cross thread. I did try for a good five minutes about a week ago to get it in there and then another 10 mins. I don't have any patience so yeah it happened. Without even thinking if it would dissolve I jb welded it. I looked it up and it says it won't weaken it and of course it can withstand the pressure. I am 100% certain it was the right size. It fit on the other side where the test port goes and wouldn't fit in a 1/4 npt fitting. What gives? Up yours karma.

I have a habit of jb welbing anything that leaks if can get it to stop. Damn oil and water guages.

Well, for starters, its 1/8" NPT. If your straight barb isn't 1/8" NPT, its not going to work. I don't see how it could even start.

But assuming that you actually had a 1/8" NPT fitting with a 1/4" barb, did you clean the threads first? I used a tap in the video. Also, did you check the threads against other parts to make sure it fits those?

JB Weld is highly resistant to gasoline so that isn't going to be a problem. So as long as it doesn't leak or vibrate loose, it should be fine. But if you are trying to make a blob seal, its not going to work.

How bad is the cross thread? Is it visibly crooked?

[drphils87]

Yeah it's crooked as hell. What's a blob seal? I took the fitting out and pt the weld on the thread and screwed it back in and then put some more around it. Tried to upload pictures from my phone. No dice. Everything is going wrong. I wish I had a pregen.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by drphils87

Yeah it's crooked as hell. What's a blob seal? I took the fitting out and pt the weld on the thread and screwed it back in and then put some more around it. Tried to upload pictures from my phone. No dice. Everything is going wrong. I wish I had a pregen.

A blob seal is when people put sealer, in this case JB-WELD, on the seams rather than between the two mating surfaces. In other words, on the outside of the threads rather than on the threads themselves. The bottom line is that a blob seal will always leak.

If you put it on the threads, it might seal OK. A picture would be helpful. If its solid enough you might leave it. However, know that JB-WELD does not stick to aluminum that well.

If it leaks, then you need to get the part out. You can try soaking that end in acetone to see if it will get loose enough to remove it. Otherwise, you'll have to remove it by force. Then re-tap it and start over.

I'm still not sure how you managed to get it cross threaded in the first place. I'm thinking that you got a straight barb with some oddball thread instead of 1/8" NPT. I've seen some of them that are similar size but are machine threads. Those wont work. Is it possible you got one of those by mistake?

[drphils87]

I remember comparing the straight barb to the orginal elbow's threads and I noticed the thread's edges on the elbow were flat and the threads on the new fitting were sharper. Was I not supposed to use a compression fitting?

[drphils87]

I'm just about to put it on the engine and plug everything in. I'll start it with my stock exhaust first without o2 sensor like you said. Watch it spray everywhere like a bitch.

[n4mwd]

I replied to your previous post early this morning, but its not there now. I wont retype everything, but you need to use pipe threads and not compression threads.

Don't put it on the bike until you fix the fitting problem. You run the risk of turning your bike into a flame thrower.

[Red250R]

Mines ready to put on the bike too. Had a set I tires put on the rims today and putting them back on the bike tomorrow morning. Then I'm knocking out the new front sprocket and cbr hugger. I don't want to start to take anything major apart yet until we have a stretch of nice weather since my garage isn't quite "roomy" enough to work on an entire bike inside of it. I have it all built and ready to go tho. Plus I still need to purchase an exhaust so I can get the O2 sensors in.

[drphils87]

I am struggling with every damn thing on this bike. Everything is hooked up on the bike ready to put gas in. I put a quart in the tank. The petcock starts dripping, but not from the sides, the two bolts that hold it on. I put some of that gasket sealer on it after I drained and cleaned the tank. I HATE getting gas on my hands. That is the one thing I can't stand getting on my hands with working on vehicles. Now my garage smells. I almost got to test the kit BUT NOOOOOOO!!!!!!! oh and before that I had to turn the outlet fitting of the petcock because the damn thing points down into a part of the frame. I took my time too.

[drphils87]

I got a wicked nose bleed too because of the gas. We got hit with golfball sized hail too here in WEATHERford