17" wheels on older Ninjettes

[copperaxe]

Hi Everyone,

There has been a number of questions and talk about converting the wheels on a pre-gen to the new model's 17" wheels. The obvious goal is access to super sticky tires for aggressive corner carving!

People are trying different methods to accomplish this goal, but here is the cheapest way. Advise from a WERA racer named Jeff, who helped me out with my conversion:

The only things you need to do to mount up the 17 on the rear is shave 13mm off the caliper hanger with a mill, and shift the torque arm over 13mm (cut & reweld). You use the stock spacers. Literally took me an hour to mount up the rear 17.

The sprocket carrier is the same part between the gens, so there is no change in chain alignment.

The front, he fabricated a bracket to mount up the stock old gen caliper in the correct position for the new rotor, then just shaved down two wheel spacers to center the wheel.

So with that info communicated, go forth buy new wheels and sticky tires and have fun at the track!

[choneofakind]

sounds good! thanks for the clarification on this! Many, myself included have been looking in on this topic with interest

[exploring/carolina]

Appreciate the information.

Bookmarked this thread for one of my future modifications.

Ryan, what width/profile 17" tires are you running on the track?

Thanks,

Bill

[copperaxe]

Here is the guy to contact if you want a very simple way to mount 17" wheels on your old-gen Ninja250...

His name is Jeff, he races with WERA, jjuskowich@hotmail.com

I believe he charges $150 for the whole kit (front and rear). So a person could quite simply buy a kit from Jeff, buy a set of wheels and tires, then bolt them on, torque and saftey wire as needed.

The stickiest tires available for the old-gen bikes too, as simple as that!

[exploring/carolina]

Thanks for the info!

[Skippii]

I run a 17" front from an ex500 on my ninja. The triple tree bolts right on, no real work needed.

For the rear, I run the super sticky 16" 130 width tires sold as front tires for some weird bikes and run them backwards. (Bridgestone and Dunlop makes them)
I made a somewhat less than helpful video review here:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83126

[JLinde1339]

If you'd like the same tire options as the new-gen's, this thread show's that an 08+ swingarm can be put on a pre-gen frame. Shouldn't have clearance issues with the wider tires that work with the new-gen's

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74940
Posted via Mobile Device

[andylawcc]

Originally Posted by Skippii

For the rear, I run the super sticky 16" 130 width tires sold as front tires for some weird bikes and run them backwards. (Bridgestone and Dunlop makes them)
I made a somewhat less than helpful video review here:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83126

Dunlop too? which model?

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by andylawcc

Dunlop too? which model?

Qualifier, which apparently has since been discontinued, but is still available a bunch of places online.
http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/produ...tire-130-70-16

Bridgestone makes the tire in both BT014 and BT016

Avon makes it for their V2 line.

Shinko makes it for their 006 Podium line. The shinko will be going on my bike next time I change it.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by copperaxe

Hi Everyone,
...

The front, he fabricated a bracket to mount up the stock old gen caliper in the correct position for the new rotor, then just shaved down two wheel spacers to center the wheel.

So with that info communicated, go forth buy new wheels and sticky tires and have fun at the track!

I thought you had newgen forks/triple and, thus, newgen brakes in the front. Are you saying that this is what he does for those continuing to use the old forks?

What do they do with the old fender? Will it fit the larger wheel? Will the old forks mount a new fender?

[copperaxe]

I did put on the new front end entirely. That is the procedure for mounting the wheel on old forks.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by copperaxe

I did put on the new front end entirely. That is the procedure for mounting the wheel on old forks.

Ah. So does the 17" wheel fit under the old fender or does the fender have to go?

[CynicalC]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Ah. So does the 17" wheel fit under the old fender or does the fender have to go?

Sh matter a long as the overall diameter of the tire doesn't change.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Sh matter a long as the overall diameter of the tire doesn't change.

Didn't realize that it wouldn't. In fact, I remember a dealer in 2008 explaining that part of the HP loss vs the pregen was due to the larger wheels.

[choneofakind]

unless my math was wrong in the other thread, that dealer had a case of talking-out-of-their-butt-itis Even though there was a hp loss between generations, both are on the same ball field for pep and fun factor.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

unless my math was wrong in the other thread, that dealer had a case of talking-out-of-their-butt-itis Even though there was a hp loss between generations, both are on the same ball field for pep and fun factor.

Yup. And it just so happens that he still had a new 2007 to sell and had just found out (from me) that Kawasaki had canceled the rest of the 2008 orders that year, of which he was formerly still expecting one. That was the famous Hillbilly Cycles, of "only dealer we know that will cut a key off the factory code without issue" fame.

I'm not seriously accusing him of "hard sell" tactics because I had just bought mine from Swampfox Motorsports practically next-door to him (Tazewell, VA) and he knew it. He complained that Kawi should not have allowed the dealer merger that allowed it to be so close due to their agreement with dealers to not allow direct competition to encroach on their established official dealerships. Gotta admit: I do feel bad for him there. He probably just didn't know how "tall" the tires on the pregen were (I didn't).

[regularguy]

i have the option to buy a pretty much complete 09 rolling chassis with everything but fairings and a tank basically. has anyone swapped complete front and rear wheels/brakes/swingarm/forks with trees? ive tried searching but i cant find any positive results. i am under the assumption that the rear swingarm will fit, so i am also assuming that the brakes and everything else on the swingarm will work. i read somewhere that the front forks are further apart on the new gens, but that a complete swap will work on a pre-gen. i wouldnt mind keeping the new gen controls, but i am not sure that everything will just transfer over.

basically, because of the price of the roller, i will probably end up just buying the whole lot and figuring it out. i was just interested in finding out if anyone has gone through the whole ordeal, and if so if there were any pointers or hurdles- if and when i am successful, i will try to get the information out for other would be swappers. i know that the new gens sell faster than hotcakes, and there has to be a whole mess of salvaged parts bikes for the pre-gen owners to benefit from!

[choneofakind]

Welcome to ninjette @aA!

Yes that will all work.

The swingarm will swap over. That means you get new-gen rear brake and wheel, along with the shock and dogbones from the new-gen.

The triples will swap over. That means you get the new-gen forks, front brake, master reservoir, and wheel. You might as well get the newgen levers while you're at it cuz there's more fun options. You also get new-gen risers (handlebars) and newgen front fender. Everything else (controls, throttle tube, grips will swap over from the classic bike)

If you're gonna do it, get the WC clip-ons for the newgen as well

But basically, if you have access to a new-gen frame for cheap and are looking for some new tires anyways (excuse to justify it as saving money as you upgrade ) DO IT!!

[regularguy]

thanks so much, i am glad to say that i have successfully swapped everything over from the new gen. also, i was able to get a hagon rear shock and race tech springs and cartrige emulators installed at the same time. now i only have to get some nice, wide, sticky tires and ill be done with the suspension and wheels/brakes completely.

total working time was about 10 hours start to finish, and that includes completely disassembling the new gen donor bike. there were a couple issues, as was expected, but overall it was a pretty straightforward swap. the ignition harness plug is a little different, but the old and the new do plug in enough for me to feel confident with them not being a perfect fit. the new plug has a wire in it that has to be connected to the old harness, but a simple bullet connector was all it took to make things work. no pictures, but they are not necessary as everything is pretty obvious.

the forks do seem to be a bit wider, so clearance is tighter, to the point that the fork guard touches the front fairing under extreme angles or compression. i am not concerned however, as it does not affect the operation of the front suspension. if i feel ambitious enough, i will take the fairing off and shave a bit off just because. this could also be due to the fact that i did not preload the spring much, as i have .80kg springs. i might look into preload adjusters or just cutting a longer spacer, but the front feels fine to me right now so it will be addressed in due time.



the start button on the right handlebar also touches the tank at full lock, but that is a non-issue to me also; i really dont mind. also, the bar could be bent, and i could also bend it out so it doesnt touch. that is another cosmetic and ambition abundance ordeal.



the ignition was swapped over with the trees, so i had to get make another key because the parts bike did not come with a key. having two keys is a little annoying to me, as i have worked in a locksmith shop for a while. the key blanks are not the same, so i am not able to rekey one lock to the other key. i was thinking about trying to swap the old ignition to the new tree, but fitment looked iffy and i didnt want to drill both switches off. two keys it is, it seems.



overall, i am very pleased with the outcome and the ease of the work. i highly suggest it to anyone that wants better/newer tires, brakes, or what have you. i was not a fan of the really tall rear 16" tire, and i am really looking forward to getting a 150 on the rear, and a radial at that- any questions anyone has about the procedure can be sent to me via pm; i am more than willing to help anyone out that is interested in the swap. i still am partial to the pre-gens for some reason, and the playing fields have been leveled as far as i am concerned. the bike now feels much more solid, rides much smoother, and doesnt flail around in a turn or while braking. it also looks much more aggressive even with the stock tires- the purple wheels did seem a bit much to me.





now i have a bunch of parts, mostly engine and some electrical, along with seats and a rear fender from the 09 if anyone is interested. im just trying to get rid of it all, so let me know if you have something specific that you are looking for-

[choneofakind]

regularguy that looks absolutely amazing!!!

Where did you find a newgen donor bike in good condition and how much did you pay for said donor bike if that's alright to ask?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by regularguy

thanks so much, i am glad to say that i have successfully swapped everything over from the new gen. also, i was able to get a hagon rear shock and race tech springs and cartrige emulators installed at the same time. now i only have to get some nice, wide, sticky tires and ill be done with the suspension and wheels/brakes completely.

total working time was about 10 hours start to finish, and that includes completely disassembling the new gen donor bike. there were a couple issues, as was expected, but overall it was a pretty straightforward swap. the ignition harness plug is a little different, but the old and the new do plug in enough for me to feel confident with them not being a perfect fit. the new plug has a wire in it that has to be connected to the old harness, but a simple bullet connector was all it took to make things work. no pictures, but they are not necessary as everything is pretty obvious.

the forks do seem to be a bit wider, so clearance is tighter, to the point that the fork guard touches the front fairing under extreme angles or compression. i am not concerned however, as it does not affect the operation of the front suspension. if i feel ambitious enough, i will take the fairing off and shave a bit off just because. this could also be due to the fact that i did not preload the spring much, as i have .80mm springs. i might look into preload adjusters or just cutting a longer spacer, but the front feels fine to me right now so it will be addressed in due time.

the start button on the right handlebar also touches the tank at full lock, but that is a non-issue to me also; i really dont mind. also, the bar could be bent, and i could also bend it out so it doesnt touch. that is another cosmetic and ambition abundance ordeal.

the ignition was swapped over with the trees, so i had to get make another key because the parts bike did not come with a key. having two keys is a little annoying to me, as i have worked in a locksmith shop for a while. the key blanks are not the same, so i am not able to rekey one lock to the other key. i was thinking about trying to swap the old ignition to the new tree, but fitment looked iffy and i didnt want to drill both switches off. two keys it is, it seems.

overall, i am very pleased with the outcome and the ease of the work. i highly suggest it to anyone that wants better/newer tires, brakes, or what have you. i was not a fan of the really tall rear 16" tire, and i am really looking forward to getting a 150 on the rear, and a radial at that- any questions anyone has about the procedure can be sent to me via pm; i am more than willing to help anyone out that is interested in the swap. i still am partial to the pre-gens for some reason, and the playing fields have been leveled as far as i am concerned. the bike now feels much more solid, rides much smoother, and doesnt flail around in a turn or while braking. it also looks much more aggressive even with the stock tires- the purple wheels did seem a bit much to me.

now i have a bunch of parts, mostly engine and some electrical, along with seats and a rear fender from the 09 if anyone is interested. im just trying to get rid of it all, so let me know if you have something specific that you are looking for-

Amazing! Can we get a pic showing the clearance between the rear tire and the undertail?

[regularguy]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Amazing! Can we get a pic showing the clearance between the rear tire and the undertail?

thanks- ill try to get pictures of rear clearance- what exactly are you looking for? i have a hagon rear shock, so it might not be the same as with a pre-gen or new-gen shock. the spring is just under 400lb/in, and i have almost an inch under the tire when the bike is on the center stand. when i get on the bike, it sags very little, not more than a couple inches, closer to an inch imo. overall, there is a lot of room everywhere but let me know if youre looking at front or upper clearances. i have not run the 17s with a stock shock, but with the 16s the hagon made a significant improvement in ride quality and handling.

Originally Posted by choneofakind

regularguy that looks absolutely amazing!!!

Where did you find a newgen donor bike in good condition and how much did you pay for said donor bike if that's alright to ask?

thanks also- im really happy with the outcome. the donor bike was a craigslist find, and somehow the frame was bent right under the tank. 400 bucks and i had every part, nut, and bolt needed to convert everything to 09 hardware with under 5000 miles. i had been looking at just wheels on ebay- rears were 85-200 alone and fronts were nowhere to be found. swingarms, brakes, forks, trees, controls- that would be a hefty ebay purchase. seeing as how current gen bikes are flying out of the dealerships at probably one an hour, im sure there are a whole mess of crashed bikes out there. now i might have to put the cbr250 plans on hold- i was on the fence about buying one but im pretty sure my 11year old bike will hold its own against a new honda.

im not sure if the forks or bars are 100% straight, but it rides true and inspires much more confidence on the road. i am pretty sure things are undamaged, so im not worried about it right now. fwiw, jumping on the pegs while moving now doesnt even come close to bottoming anything out, and in rebound the bike settles very nicely back at ride height. ill have to put some hard miles on the setup to reach a final conclusion, but im sure the money spent was well worth it.

just out of curiosity, has anyone priced new ninjas or cbrs lately? it seems that because the two local dealerships have a monopoly on new small bikes, they think its ok to charge 6000 for a new bike out the door- i wish i could drive to a different state to get a better deal on a new bike. well, i wished; not so sure anymore... my 01 is pretty loaded now! talk about falling in love all over again-

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by regularguy

thanks- ill try to get pictures of rear clearance- what exactly are you looking for? i have a hagon rear shock, so it might not be the same as with a pre-gen or new-gen shock. the spring is just under 400lb/in, and i have almost an inch under the tire when the bike is on the center stand. when i get on the bike, it sags very little, not more than a couple inches, closer to an inch imo. overall, there is a lot of room everywhere but let me know if youre looking at front or upper clearances. i have not run the 17s with a stock shock, but with the 16s the hagon made a significant improvement in ride quality and handling.

Looking at clearances for a swingarm cover with tire hugger.

[regularguy]

i will get you pictures tomorrow-

[cerberusrex25]

I still need to buy a complete set for the front swap( entire suspension including wheel), glad to see this is a straight swap and regular guy beating me to it. Now all I have to worry about is swapping that new All Balls bearing from the old triple to the new one.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by cerberusrex25

I still need to buy a complete set for the front swap( entire suspension including wheel), glad to see this is a straight swap and regular guy beating me to it. Now all I have to worry about is swapping that new All Balls bearing from the old triple to the new one.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that you weren't first to show us up-close, but your build is still pretty unique! @copperaxe did the front swap and used machined parts to get a newgen wheel but he never really showed us anything up close. When he sold the bike, I asked for pics and he said he'd try to send some.

[regularguy]

pictures of rear fender clearances- im pretty sure theres plenty of room for a hugger. the flap on the left side might have to be trimmed, but it really doesnt look like it does anything anyway- let me know if you would like additional angles. anyone want to send me a hugger to test fitment.....?

[regularguy]

Originally Posted by cerberusrex25

I still need to buy a complete set for the front swap( entire suspension including wheel), glad to see this is a straight swap and regular guy beating me to it. Now all I have to worry about is swapping that new All Balls bearing from the old triple to the new one.

those ball bearings are kind of a pain to keep track of, but if you keep them all together and use grease to make sure they dont fall out during reinstallation, it isnt that bad. on a side note, i did use a zip tie to keep the tree up while situating the ball bearings for the top side. made things pretty easy.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by regularguy

pictures of rear fender clearances- im pretty sure theres plenty of room for a hugger. the flap on the left side might have to be trimmed, but it really doesnt look like it does anything anyway- let me know if you would like additional angles. anyone want to send me a hugger to test fitment.....?

The v1 Sportisi hugger is pretty wide and the swingarm cover raises it pretty high but, as you said, that looks like plenty to work with.

Thanks! I tried to get someone's broken Sportisi hugger but they never responded to me. If I lived on your island, I'd certainly swing by for a test fitment.

[Jono]

WOW!!!! Great work man! That looks really nice. And what a steal on that parts bike.

[rabies]

so i bought an o8 rear wheel with sprocket and rotor.
i also bought the 08 swingarm cheap.
am i able to use my 04 caliper and bracket? and axle bolt?
thats teh part im cornfused on

[andylawcc]

Originally Posted by rabies

am i able to use my 04 caliper and bracket? and axle bolt?
thats teh part im cornfused on

caliper and bracket: highly doubtful. just pick one up on ebay.

Axle bolt: maybe.

[rabies]

would be cool if someone could measure if they had both so there could be facts

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by rabies

would be cool if someone could measure if they had both so there could be facts

@Jiggyfly has. The pregen I got from him had 08+ wheel on pregen forks with 08+ calipers using a custom bracket.

[CZroe]

I know @copperaxe sold his bike and probably doesn't watch these forums anymore, but I figured I'd ask to see if he or anyone else could answer a few questions:

Originally Posted by copperaxe

...
The only things you need to do to mount up the 17 on the rear is shave 13mm off the caliper hanger with a mill, and shift the torque arm over 13mm (cut & reweld).

I assume you mean the old caliper hanger if we are retaining the torque arm? What part of the hanger do you shave and what exactly are you making clearance for by shaving it? Is the torque arm cut/re-weld a swingarm modification? Does his kit include a modified torque arm? Surely, it doesn't include a modified swingarm?

Originally Posted by copperaxe

You use the stock spacers. Literally took me an hour to mount up the rear 17.

Which stock spacers? Old (F), new (J), or are they the same?

Originally Posted by copperaxe

I believe he charges $150 for the whole kit (front and rear). So a person could quite simply buy a kit from Jeff, buy a set of wheels and tires, then bolt them on, torque and saftey wire as needed.

What about the part that needs to be re-welded?

[bagtf3]

Hmm. This is interesting.

[Sirref]

I'm looking into doing this in the easiest (financially) way possible. I'm investing in a swingarm for the rear to make my life easier but it seems to be impossible to find a front end from a newgen 250 (and the 500 parts would make my bike ineligible for racing which is the whole point of the conversion)

The front however is vague here. I get fabricating a new mount for the caliper but I'm questioning how one would go about shaving the spacers to center the wheel

[choneofakind]

Measure them. Then machine the old ones if possible to reuse or have new ones machined.