RE: Theater Shooting...

[CZroe]

[slickt0mmy]

Originally Posted by lgk

what im saying is the the ccw would not have any negative impact on the situation.

the ccw holder should be able to carry any place that is open to the general public.

I agree on both points.

A lot of people have said "Someone pulling their own gun would have just made the situation worse!"..........Really? A man is literally mowing down innocent people and you don't like the thought of someone returning fire?

It's obvious this guy was a coward. He preyed on the innocent people who had no hope of defending themselves and then immediately gave up once the guys with guns showed up. I'm willing to bet at the first sight of someone in the crowd pulling a gun, he would have high-tailed it out of there. Just my opinion though. We'll never know for sure.

For your consideration:
Just recently two men tried to rob an internet cafe and were chased off by a 71 year old man with his concealed carry permit. Each bad guy was shot multiple times while they ran off and none of the customers or employees were harmed. This stuff happens EVERY day but rarely gets media coverage because it paints concealed carry in a good light. And mainstream media just can't have that.

Here's a video of the incident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZNC2...layer_embedded

[lgk]

Originally Posted by slickt0mmy

A lot of people have said "Someone pulling their own gun would have just made the situation worse!"..........Really? A man is literally mowing down innocent people and you don't like the thought of someone returning fire?

yeah i think people that say stuff like that fall into two categories.
1. they lack confidence and are too lazy to learn skills to protect themselves.
2. people that lack analytical skills and are poor problem solvers.

those same people would suggest calling 911 for help...
i guess they don't realize all they are doing is are calling for a person with a gun.

[FrugalNinja250]

The actual title of this thread should have been "The political and gun law ramifications of the mass shooting in Colorado" since most of the posts seem to be about that rather than about the actual event and its victims.

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by lgk

yeah i think people that say stuff like that fall into two categories.
1. they lack confidence and are too lazy to learn skills to protect themselves.
2. people that lack analytical skills and are poor problem solvers.

those same people would suggest calling 911 for help...
i guess they don't realize all they are doing is are calling for a person with a gun.

A trained person with a gun, rather than someone jsut taking a gun safety course and getting a permit? Have you ever taken a gun safety course? Mostly it's about holding your weapon and storage not about firing and aim so you don't shoot innocent people.....

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Aim for the head not the chest

Harder to hit a moving target in the head, double tap to the chest first & see how it works out:

If he's going down continue until he's on the ground & go for the head shot there.

If he's not dropping the shots to the torso should slow him down or stun him, shoot for the base of the brain (just below nose level)

Placing a head shot takes a lot of practice & even if you can do it on a moving target with no shoot obstacles around it doing it in a real situation where your life is in danger & adrenaline is pumping is a whole different ball game.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

A trained person with a gun, rather than someone jsut taking a gun safety course and getting a permit? Have you ever taken a gun safety course? Mostly it's about holding your weapon and storage not about firing and aim so you don't shoot innocent people.....

are you projecting?
just because you never were trained doesn't mean other people are not responsible.

the CCW holders i have dealt with recieve a lot more firearms training than the average policeman, except for maybe a SWAT officer. the police recieve more training in the law and issuing summons. the only advantage an officer would have body armor.

if you think most cops are trained in CQB and active shooter tactics, your sadly mistaken. it will take them a long time to breach and secure a building as large as that threater.

Active shooter scenarios require an immediate response, any other response is either too late or a failure...

I'm surprised people don't get it...

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by lgk

are you projecting?
just because you never were trained doesn't mean other people are not responsible.

the CCW holders i have dealt with recieve a lot more firearms training than the average policeman, except for maybe a SWAT officer. the police recieve more training in the law and issuing summons. the only advantage an officer would have body armor.

if you think most cops are trained in CQB and active shooter tactics, your sadly mistaken. it will take them a long time to breach and secure a building as large as that threater.

Active shooter scenarios require an immediate response, any other response is either too late or a failure...

Actually I'm not projecting. My father is retired military so I've probably had more training with handguns and rifles than anyone you've ever met in your entire life.... But that's my scenario, not most peoples... you think every Tom, Dick or Harry who has a handgun with a permit has been trained? Stop assuming everyone in life has a specific scenario... Everyone's is different and if you think everyone is trained to have a handgun who actually has a permit, you better spend the rest of your life inside. It will be safer for you. Did you actually take the handgun safety course or is it different in your state then it is mine and you have to take some kind of accuracy training as well? Last I checked the only thing you have to do in most states is take a Gun safety course and wait the specific amount of days for a background check. The state you live in MUST have higher standards then the REST of the United States. (That was Sarcasm)

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Actually I'm not projecting. My father is retired military so I've probably had more training with handguns and rifles than anyone you've ever met in your entire life.... But that's my scenario, not most peoples... you think every Tom, Dick or Harry who has a handgun with a permit has been trained? Stop assuming everyone in life has a specific scenario... Everyone's is different and if you think everyone is trained to have a handgun who actually has a permit, you better spend the rest of your life inside. It will be safer for you. Did you actually take the handgun safety course or is it different in your state then it is mine and you have to take some kind of accuracy training as well? Last I checked the only thing you have to do in most states is take a Gun safety course and wait the specific amount of days for a background check. The state you live in MUST have higher standards then the REST of the United States. (That was Sarcasm)

In CA you are required to take accuracy training and skills test

[Stingray1000]

Didn't see anyhting about accuracy training....
http://www.ehow.com/how_7556783_lice...alifornia.html

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Didn't see anyhting about accuracy training....
http://www.ehow.com/how_7556783_lice...alifornia.html

Hmm I wonder what could possibly be included in the training course, oh ****, accuracy training, as well as other things

[slickt0mmy]

The vast majority of states require you to complete a written test as well as a shooting test before you can get your license, including Ohio, where I live. My class was taught by two ex-Army Rangers and Blackwater agents. While I'm sure they could have taught us more advanced shooting techniques, they mostly focused on simply making sure we could all shoot safely and hit what we were aiming at. While that's all well and good, it was basically a glorified safety course, which is why it's so important to continue your training beyond the standard CCW course.

And what lgk said about policemen is true. Many of them simply view their firearm as "another tool they have to use to do their job" and have no interest in becoming more proficient than they have to with it. Many of the Columbus police practice at the range I go to and you'd be appalled at some of their targets when they're through. A lot of them are just good enough to pass qualifications and that's it.

That being said, there are policemen that are excellent with their firearms. I've taken many tactical shooting courses from a Columbus SWAT officer out of his home and he outshoots every person there every single time. We actually have a game where if anyone can beat him, he buys pizza for the class. It never happens

Anyway, my point is exactly what lgk said. The media paints concealed carry holders to be a bunch of yahoos who would pull their firearm on a whim. This isn't the case at all, as many of them have had far more training than the average policeman.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Actually I'm not projecting. My father is retired military.

you are projecting.
i fail to see your point though, other than the fact that you or your dad could have made a big difference in how the situation went down.

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

I've probably had more training with handguns and rifles than anyone you've ever met in your entire life.... )

seriously doubt it, and looking at your terminology, i'm sure you had less training than me.

i see a broad cross section of the military around here.
i have shot against olympic grade shooters, SWAT, Designated Marksmen and Grand Masters, etc.
people that should impress experts even in my field.

Originally Posted by Stingray1000

Did you actually take the handgun safety course or is it different in your state then it is mine and you have to take some kind of accuracy training as well? Last I checked the only thing you have to do in most states is take a Gun safety course and wait the specific amount of days for a background check. The state you live in MUST have higher standards then the REST of the United States. (That was Sarcasm)

yes, ended up taking the chp course that met the minimum requirements of the law.

so what, i didn't stop educating myself, most other people continue to shoot and take classes as well. i venture most people were shooting before they applied for a permit.

you just don't want to admit a permit holder could have saved lives.
thankfully experts disagree.

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Lol, love it. The hypocrisy and ignorance is so funny.

[kyrider]

I feel so sorry for the families that lost a loved one in the massacre or had some one seriously hurt. I also feel for the shooters family. It is obvious that he suffered from some sort of mental illness much like Jared Loughner.
We can debate gun control but the fact is he had killing as an agenda and he found several ways to act that out. I don't know if someone carrying a gun in the chaos could have thought rationally and quick enough to stop him. I have my ccw and carry often but have not prepared myself for such an encounter. I have worked security before but still don't know how I would react to that type of situation. I have practiced for more close encounter type situations. Usually within 21 feet and no smoke bombs involved. There were heros there that night and they saved lives at the cost of their own.

I don't want more laws but I hope can learn something from this and come out the better.