carb prob on 08 , wont start

[scorch]

So i had some stumbling and hesitating problems with my 08.

i pulled the carbs and cleaned it, they looked clean etc..

ive mounted everything, and it wont start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g1RL5CIyko

Link to original page on YouTube.

here is a video, if i keep the throttle closed it seems like it wants to start, if i give it throttle it makes a sound as if its just cranking. and same with the choke.

on the left carb i noticed that its leaking a little around the bottom. But i pulled it out and it everything looks good including the floats.

Any ideas?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by scorch

So i had some stumbling and hesitating problems with my 08.

i pulled the carbs and cleaned it, they looked clean etc..

ive mounted everything, and it wont start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g1RL5CIyko

here is a video, if i keep the throttle closed it seems like it wants to start, if i give it throttle it makes a sound as if its just cranking. and same with the choke.

on the left carb i noticed that its leaking a little around the bottom. But i pulled it out and it everything looks good including the floats.

Any ideas?

First question, what is your experience with rebuilding carburetors? Did you do a through and meticulous cleaning? Set the float heights, etc.....

I couldn't see, but we're the carburetors complete installed, airbox hooked up, all hoses, and connections were okay? Petcock working, and on (don't laugh, it's happened to me )

Also your battery sounds a little flat, charge it, before doing anything else, the CDI and other electronics need a minimum voltage to work.

[scorch]

I dont have any experience rebuilding carbs. Im not a professional mechanic, just follow online tutorials and such.

I do hate doing carb work.

Im sure i did something horribly wrong to the carbs.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by scorch

I dont have any experience rebuilding carbs. Im not a professional mechanic, just follow online tutorials and such.

I do hate doing carb work.

Im sure i did something horribly wrong to the carbs.

Hey we've all been there at one time, so don't go beating yourself up.

When things go wrong, start and the beginning, and take your time and be methodical about everything.

Worse case is by the time you get it running you'll be better at it next time.

If you have no luck let me know, I'm just a UPS shipment away.

Also invest in a fuel filter, cheap insurance to preventing your carbs getting mucked up.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Hey we've all been there at one time, so don't go beating yourself up.

When things go wrong, start and the beginning, and take your time and be methodical about everything.

Worse case is by the time you get it running you'll be better at it next time.

If you have no luck let me know, I'm just a UPS shipment away.

Also invest in a fuel filter, cheap insurance to preventing your carbs getting mucked up.

Very kind offer !!!

I have been following your other thread and can see that you are shooting a moving target; hence, your frustration, Ricardo.

If those spark plugs have been working with this carbs for several hundreds of miles, it seems to me that the mix is extremely lean.

However, you report overflowing from one side.

You need to troubleshoot this step by step, as advised before, before you kill that starter motor.

Verify things and re-try in this order:

1) Fuel supply reaching the bowls (at least 1 c.c. per second). Apply vacuum and measure it.

2) Level of fuel reached inside each bowl. Level of floats may be correct, but valve tips may be leaking (bowls overflows with vacuum applied to petcock) or sticky (fuel cannot pass even when the float goes down if you drain the bowl).

3) Replace all vacuum tubes and connect them tight.

4) Oil the air foam filter (slightly only).

5) Verify that spark plugs are delivering a good spark. Replace them if not or check associated electrical parts.

6) While the spark plugs are out, press a piece of rubber against the hole with your hand and crank the engine. If compression is good, you will hear air leaking out regardless of how hard you push down.

7) Verify that the choke cable pulls out that side plunge in the carbs. Try a normal start up keeping the throttle all the way closed and the choke fully opened. If you have been turning the knob for adjusting idle rpm's, turn it left all the way and then one or two right turns.

8) Carefully remove the tops and check that the diaphragms freely move the needles up and down.

9) Clean these:
http://n4mwd.blogspot.com/2013/10/se...-passages.html

[Yarhj]

I was in your shoes last year -- don't worry, you'll get it working again, and you'll feel like a total badass when it finally fires up! Carburetors seem intimidating at first, but it's hard to do much real damage to them during cleaning.

A few additional notes:
1. Double check that the S-shaped hose that comes out of the bottom of the airbox is actually connected to the airbox. It popped off on me once when I took the carbs out and it made it nearly impossible to start the bike (though some people have reported that it made no real difference for them, YMMV).

2. When cleaning the carbs, be sure to use some copper wire to brush out the little holes in the jets, as well as the secret passageways that motofool mentioned above (point 9). I hear you can also use nylon guitar string, but don't use steel, as it's hard enough to damage the jets, which are (allegedly) brass. More info than you can shake a stick at here)

3. If you do end up taking your carburetors apart again, make sure the o-rings in the idle screw assemblies are actually intact. One of mine disintegrated, which (surprise) made it really hard to get the bike running. I wouldn't take the carbs apart JUST to check on this -- it's more of a "while you're in the neighborhood" sort of thing.

Good luck! If you run into any issues, or have any questions about what we've posted, let us know. Many (most?) of us have been in the same boat at some point!

[Ghostt]

Do yourself a favor that will be invaluable as tools go, pick these up,

Carburetor Carbon Dirt Jet Remove Cleaning Needle + Brush Tool Kits For Kawasaki

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...738438&alt=web

They will last you a lifetime, assuming you don't loan them out, and/or lose them.

[cbinker]

how new is your fuel?
Have you played with the idle screw?

[scorch]

So I had a friend of mine come over who is better at fixing bikes than me. My idkw adjustment screw was apparently closed. Or at least not 2.5 turns. We adjuatednut and the floats. And the bike started. We buttwned her up and thqwn tried to start it and it just resorted to the same thing.

So back to the drawing board.

Thanks for the suggestions and ikk keep you guys posted. Just too tired today to play. I was working on the bike all day trying to figure out what was wrong.

[scorch]

Another day..

i cleaned my carbs once more. And installed them. And the bike ran for a little bit. For aw hile i thought i cured it. I could re it slightly and it revved, i thought the problem was solved.

Then i went to get a drink and to tell everyone on the internet i solved the problem. Went back to the bike and started to put things together and now its back to the same.

the bike runs, but with the choke. And briefly.

It dies with the choke after a while. if i twist the throttle the slightest, it dies.

So after 6 times cleaning the carb, im not sure what to do. The floats are adjusted, the air mix screws were at 2.5, then i changed them to 3, and still nothing.

[Ghostt]

Did you verify that the Petcock is working? Is the carburetors getting fuel? Do you smell gas? And lastly but the hardest of all, did you reassemble them correctly?

Wish I could just pop over and fix this , but I'm a little too far for that.

Also go over in your head and rethink it, most importantly take you time, and be meticulous.

[scorch]

I got it to run, but for how long?

I put my thumb by mistake over a vacuum hose and the idle shot up. With my thumb there i could rev it and all of that.
So i think i might have found the cause. The vaccum hose was not clamped on, and one of those wire ties was not there. So now i need to get a few and try it again.

Ill let you guys know how it runs now.

[Ghostt]

Sounds like your on the right track, a vacuum leak is a major issue for a bike, especially on as small as ours is, it doesn't take much.

I always tell people, if you think the vacuum line is leaking, just replace it with a new one.

Good luck

[scorch]

Im having problems routing the hoses.


(above) im not sure where this T connects to



Where my Thumb is above, im not sure what hose that goes. That is the nipple that if i put my thumb the bike acts nicely, and if i let go it will not run. I think this one attaches to the fuel tank?

[Motofool]

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Carburetor_photos

[jkv45]

Is it possible you have debris in the tank that's getting into the jets as soon as it starts?

Did you find anything in the floatbowls?

[rojoracing53]

Made this awhile back for another member to show the effect of a vacuum leak

Link to original page on YouTube.

[scorch]

ok, got the carb hooked up. But the bike is only starting in choke position on.

and if i keep the revs high i can twist the throttle pretty high, it seems pretty smooth except if i leave it reving at 3k for example it wants to die if i dont throttle it up slowly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqGFumWA4Dg

[Ghostt]

Ok, first off that nipple next to your thumb is where the vacuum line from the Petcock goes, so if the Petcock is hooked up properly that nipple isn't an issue.

Second, yes you can suck up gunk from the tank at anytime, hence my recommendation to install a fuel filter.

Lastly, if all is hooked up properly, like vacuum lines, fuel, airbox, etc... And it needs the choke to idle, it's a classic case of gummed up pilot/idle passages and jets are not working properly, and need to be cleaned.

When you cleaned both sets of jets, main and pilot did you remove then from the carburetors? Or clean them in place? If you don't remove them, you didn't clean them. Pilot jets are incredibly small orifice, to make sure 100% you've got them cleaned, you can either order a jet cleaning tool, like I posted earlier, or you can use a guitar string, the smallest one, "E" I believe.

Or just get new ones, they are cheap enough, and any decent motorcycle shop has them for sale.

Hope this helps you out

[scorch]

Hey got working!! Its idling fantastic now. I just recleaned everything and out it back.

Tommorow I'm riding it to work. Yay

[scorch]

Thanks for the help ghost. I really appreciate everyone's insight on this. If it weren't for this forum I'd be lost and broke. I'll let you guys know how the bike is running tommorow

[Ghostt]

That's awesome news, so what was it after all?

[scorch]

Its hard to say.

One if the things was that the vaçum lines were mixed up. the t connector was aimed different in one if those pics.

Once I out the vacuum hose to the gas tank it sorted itself out.

Not sure how it ran before if the hoses were criss crossed?

I took the carb out to clean because the bike was stumbling and hesitating. Perhaps dirt or bad fas got in the carb?

I need to put in a fuel filter. Tommorow after work I'm going to do that on both my 250s.

I'm not saying its 100% tommoroq at least illbtest it out and see.

It does feelgood to have it running.

[Ghostt]

Good deal, I'm glad you got it all sorted out. Can't wait for the ride report.

Best part is you did it, and didn't have to go to a dealer and pay out big bucks.

[scorch]

I rode the bike to work today. FIlled up with gas, the bike rode well for 5 miles. And went back to the original problem of hesitating and stumbling. if i open up the throttle more than midway it feels like its bogging down.

That was the reason for removing the carbs and cleaning to get rid of this problem.

The bike only does this when its warmed up.

But, it seems like its better than before i actualy cleaned the carbs. So at least it is a lsight improvement.

Im thinking its still a vaccum leak or carb leak. but not entirely sure.

[Racer x]

If it is good to mid throttle then most likely it has somthing to do with the vacuum slides or its circuit. Did you look at the diaphragms on top of the carb?

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by scorch

I rode the bike to work today. FIlled up with gas, the bike rode well for 5 miles. And went back to the original problem of hesitating and stumbling. if i open up the throttle more than midway it feels like its bogging down.

Still sounds like it's either running out of fuel or is too rich. When it's cold it can use the extra fuel (if it's rich), but when it's warm it can't.

If it's not getting adequate fuel it will run fine until the level in the floatbowls drop. If you let it sit for 5 minutes, does it run fine again for a while? Have you opened the gas tank filler to see if you have a vacuum in the tank when it happens?

What do the plugs look like?

[scorch]

Originally Posted by Racer x

If it is good to mid throttle then most likely it has somthing to do with the vacuum slides or its circuit. Did you look at the diaphragms on top of the carb?

It seems to be rough when i twist the throttle just a bit. Or twist it fast etc...

On the way home today it felt like it had more power and for several sections of the commute i was riding pretty had and taking off without hesitation. But its still there.

The bike after warmed up also stalled a few times at red lights and was very tough to start, had to use the choke. But it did start.

[scorch]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Still sounds like it's either running out of fuel or is too rich. When it's cold it can use the extra fuel (if it's rich), but when it's warm it can't.

If it's not getting adequate fuel it will run fine until the level in the floatbowls drop. If you let it sit for 5 minutes, does it run fine again for a while? Have you opened the gas tank filler to see if you have a vacuum in the tank when it happens?

What do the plugs look like?

Coud my air mixture screws be set wrong? if its running rich i should turn them clockwise to get less fuel?

[Racer x]

Does black smoke puff out from the muffler? If not than it is probably not rich. These bikes can run pretty rich. I am worried about the converter at this point thiugh. It could be clogged. Check the diaphragms and see how it goes. You are always welcome to drop it off. I can fix it in January.

[scorch]

No black smoke or any smoke. The bike doesnt use any oil either.

The converter?

Would valves that are out of adjustment cause this if they are too tight?

Eric, i might take you up on the offer. Ill email you if i cant solve this.

Thanks

[Ghostt]

Water in fuel maybe? Drain tank completely, and fill with fresh gas?

[Ghostt]

Also you could drain the bowls into a clear jar to check contents. This can be done without removing the carburetors.

[scorch]

This morning i refueled. The tank was pretty empty when i put fuel in. Initialy i thought i had bad gas.

I think id like to run a few tanks of gas and see if the problem goes away.

The bike literaly went from riding perfectly to a weird hesitation problem on the same tankful.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by scorch

This morning i refueled. The tank was pretty empty when i put fuel in. Initialy i thought i had bad gas.

I think id like to run a few tanks of gas and see if the problem goes away.

The bike literaly went from riding perfectly to a weird hesitation problem on the same tankful.

Gas is lighter than water, so unless you complete remove and drain the tank, don't rule this out as a possible cause. Just another gremlin to hunt down and kill with extreme prejudice.

[jkv45]

Leaving the tank low, when temps are changing, leads to condensation in the tank - so the same tank of fuel can be good initially and bad eventually. In general, you are always best to keep the tank on the full side.

Are you running ethanol-free? I would if you can get it. 87 is always the best, but I run the lowest octane I can get without ethanol. Ethanol in gas makes everything worse.

I would drain the floatbowls and tank completely (as Ghostt suggested) to be certain there is no water in the system.

Confirming that the fuel is good is the best starting point when troubleshooting - because it will never run right, no matter what you do, if it's not.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by scorch

Coud my air mixture screws be set wrong? if its running rich i should turn them clockwise to get less fuel?

Set the idle mixture screws at 2 1/2 turns out as a base. It should run pretty well at that setting. If you can get it to run enough to get fully warm, set the hot idle speed to 1300.

[Ghostt]

Okay let me explain how and which parts of the carburetor effects the motor depending on the throttle position. In short once your past a certain amount the idle jets/needle setting does nothing, it's up to the main jet/needle job.

Better yet I'll just draw a picture, see below.

[Yarhj]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Okay let me explain how and which parts of the carburetor effects the motor depending on the throttle position.

Better yet I'll just draw a picture, see below.

Looking for this?



Source, with more info than you can shake a vacuum slide at.

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by Yarhj

Looking for this?



Source, with more info than you can shake a vacuum slide at.

LOL yes, I've got to organize my photos, but as you can it's easy to understand with visual aids.
Thxs again brother.