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Old November 14th, 2021, 09:37 PM   #41
Bob KellyIII
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the gas tank in my Ninja does whistle or grone on hot days most noticable if I just shake the bike or move it and it will let out a sigh ! the bike is saying it wants to go !!!!
I've not had any stalling issues on my Ninja that I've noticed it just is hard to get going it wants to stay on choke too long in my book... it's just cold blooded
and once you get used to it it's not an issue.
...
the vacuum petcock on mine leaks real bad when the fuel line is disconnected from the carbs and engine off.... I've had the petcock off and apart but found nothing wrong with it at all... the diaphragm pulls the plug for the fuel flow to the carbs just fine but it just doesn't seal real good when the engine is not running... that is actually a bad thing and it should be rebuilt I suppose ...perhaps stretching the spring would cure that but then it might not open with the vacuum... so with no way to measure it it's a "leave it alone " thing.
but I'd rather turn on the gas and turn off the gas when I get off a bike
this automatic stuff seams like needless B.S. to me, just something else to go wrong. though if it worked as intended it would save the gas from leaking out if the bike was on it's side.... I've had several bikes fall over during the night and wake up to a bike on it's side and an empty gas tank
so the idea is a good one but not really needed just turn off the gas when you leave the bike ...it's a habit and once you get it it isn't a problem.
My Kid had a sticker on his bike that said "turn on the gas Dummy"
because he came in to get help one time as he forgot to do just that ! LOL

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Old November 15th, 2021, 05:51 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
the diaphragm pulls the plug for the fuel flow to the carbs just fine but it just doesn't seal real good when the engine is not running...
Try a new O-ring on the main valve plunger. Ducatiman can probably tell you the industry size number.
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Old November 15th, 2021, 03:30 PM   #43
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Not that I can think of.
That’s good. I haven’t seen too many unexplained stall threads back when I was more active here but I did see a few. If it affected more bikes I’d expect many more by now so this is a good thing. Mine was bone stock and new, BTW. Not sure if carb jetting or raising needles or anything might affect it.

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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
were talking about TWO different things now right?

1. clogged tank-vent causing vacuum in tank. This is not binary all-or-nothing issue. It's possible to have partially clogged vent, which still vents enough for adequate petrol flow. Mine hissed and squealed for years before I fixed it, but was always able to start and run bike normally regardless. One simple and easy test is riding with cap open. OP reports this made no difference. OP also has not reported any hissing or whining from tank. So we can assume tank-venting is not issue in this case.

2. Leaky petcock seal should only affect operations when bike is off. Such as causing dripping through carbs with non-sealing float-valves resulting in hydrolocked engine and/or stripped starter ring-gear. Neither has been reported by OP. Leaky petcock should not affect opened
operation when bike is ON in anyway because diaphragm will be open for full flow anyway.


Which is our final diagnostic test. If his petcock flow-rate is measured to be sufficient, only conclusion left is dirty and clogged carbs.
Yeah. It was a response to shspvr since he mentioned that they are cheap on eBay and he may want to replace it if he sees ethanol damage. Just something to be aware of for anyone looking for a replacement petcock since even new parts could be affected.

1. He did say the problem was hit or miss so the tank vent test was inconclusive. Not saying it’s the tank vent though… just thought an anecdote of a confirmed issue would be useful to compare here.

2. Yeah, it was a tangent in case he saw ethanol damage when checking the petcock for other issues. Since they were already talking about replacements I chimed in about a known-issue with original and replacement petcock. Don’t know if Kawi ever addressed this but in some ways an aftermarket petcock may be the better option when shopping for a replacement.

Quote:
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Are you refer to part that is circled in yellow ? if yes it should not be going that far in should be sitting on the 45 degree bevel
It is that part. I took that pic about 9 years ago and can’t recall exactly but IIRC there are parts that seal against it from both sides.
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Old November 15th, 2021, 09:57 PM   #44
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... any way... running good then running bad is a symptom of water in the fuel
and it's a easy fix.... when in doubt turn the screw next to the small black drain line on the float bowl of the carburetors... drain everything out... and it should stop draining because the motor is not running... you don't have to take those screws out just loosen them about 2 or 3 turns is all... then tighten them back up. ( don't leave them like that or you'll forget them !)
....
Another thing I like to do is get the motor running and rev it to about 3,000 RPM and put your hand over the throat of one carburetor....
then take it off when the RPM's drop to about 2000 RPM... and do that again to the other side... this sucks all the junk out of the carburetor along with any water that is lingering in there...
this is only do-able if you have the boots and air box all disconnected because you can't put your hand over the back of the carb if their on there
....
doing that will also help show up a fuel supply problem as it sucks alot of gas out of the carb and it will take a few seconds to recover ...if it takes a minute or two to recover then you definitely have a fuel supply problem !!!!
(replace the petcock with one that doesn't have that stupid vacuum line ! )
....
my 2 coppers
Bob......
Hi, I am not that savvy with the lingo and parts itself. Could you please point this out in a picture for me, so I can what exactly I am doing here and I will try the testing. Thanks!


Quote:
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@SuspectPage3
Does your tank ever make noise like a moan or whistle when it sits?

.
Yes, it did a few times here and there. I didn't know where the sound is coming from? Reading all of the replies here makes me think yes it was that!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
were talking about TWO different things now right?

1. clogged tank-vent causing vacuum in tank. This is not binary all-or-nothing issue. It's possible to have partially clogged vent, which still vents enough for adequate petrol flow. Mine hissed and squealed for years before I fixed it, but was always able to start and run bike normally regardless. One simple and easy test is riding with cap open. OP reports this made no difference. OP also has not reported any hissing or whining from tank. So we can assume tank-venting is not issue in this case.

Which is our final diagnostic test. If his petcock flow-rate is measured to be sufficient, only conclusion left is dirty and clogged carbs.
Hi Danno, Please see my attached pics, see if that helps. The filter seems dirty enough to me, not sure if it's dirty enough to make bike sort of die here and there. Also, the green vent (with white arrow pic) had all sort of gunk in it, I tried to remove it (and may have pushed some inside by accident )

Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post

Also time 30-seconds flow. How much petrol did cup collect?
I could do this test as I dont have the vacuum thing, and I looked up on local bike shops it was $250~ LOL, so I abandoned the idea and went next stage of opening the petcock assembly!

https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...=en_AU&start=6

Is this the right thing I was looking up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CZroe View Post
My 2008 Ninja 250 was brand new when ... as soon as I left and a couple blocks later I sputtered out at a stop light.

The other time was after I blasted up the interstate.... and tank I sputtered out at a stoplight a few blocks away.
Yes, this sounds like how mine dies too, it usually more so does it when stopped at traffic light and about to take off. Not so much when continuously riding and revving it hard!

@ ALL - Thank you for all your help, it's overwhelming that you all are trying to help. I will try and do as much fixing as I can and keep you all posted! Please see my pics and see if that answers any of the questions? Or if it helps guide me to right step may be

PS: Can someone identify the small ring left behind? I found this after above DIY, it is size of 10mm wrench and it's metal and slight bent already. Would my bike notice this missing or can I get away with it for now :P
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg IMG2.jpg (109.2 KB, 5 views)
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Old November 16th, 2021, 12:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by CZroe View Post
2. Yeah, it was a tangent in case he saw ethanol damage when checking the petcock for other issues. Since they were already talking about replacements I chimed in about a known-issue with original and replacement petcock. Donít know if Kawi ever addressed this but in some ways an aftermarket petcock may be the better option when shopping for a replacement.
There's wide-range of quality in aftermarket petcocks. But new may certainly be better than old, leaky factory ones for sure. Not sure what components are used, would be best to go through everything and replace with Viton & fluoroelastomer seals to deal with modern ethanol petrol. https://www.litetek.co/
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Old November 16th, 2021, 03:46 PM   #46
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PS: Can someone identify the small ring left behind? I found this after above DIY, it is size of 10mm wrench and it's metal and slight bent already. Would my bike notice this missing or can I get away with it for now :P
The ring is for the petcock where turn the on and off at as it apply pressure to the inter seal and it is called a spring washer watch this video

Link to original page on YouTube.

The first photo with white arrow in it is gas spillage drain and water drain be sure to clean it out with compressed air

Now as for vacuum thing goto ebay search hand vacuum pump there no way in hell in cost $250 if that is in AU money that would be $183 US dallor


Last futzed with by Alex; November 16th, 2021 at 04:01 PM. Reason: youtube link fixed: only put the video ID between the youtube tags, nothing else. Hit edit on post to see what I mean.
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Old November 16th, 2021, 04:00 PM   #47
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that looks like you may have some rust in the tank to me.....
I had to use Kreem tank sealant on mine when I first got it as both carbs were fairly plugged up with the rust ....
as well as the petcock .
one main jet was completely plugged ! and it would only run on one cylinder !
but after 2 or 3 carb removals and cleanings I finally got it to run
these carbs are real bad about plugging up ! the passageways are very small and need cleaned real good ....( don't get carb cleaner on any rubber!) take everything off that you can on each carb and clean all the holes... then do it again ! ....i can't stress that enough ! do it again and again and make darn sure every hole in that carb is clean... then do the other one the same way.... take your time , don't rush through it !
make sure each hole is allowing the sprey cleaner to go through where it is supposed to.... some holes have 2 or 3 places they are supposed to exit to
you can't speed through a carb cleaning and expect it to be fine....
.... ask me how I know ? I am fighting an AMAL carb for my Triumph for the 3rd time and it still don't work ! AURGH !!!!!
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Old November 16th, 2021, 04:10 PM   #48
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I had to use Kreem tank sealant on mine when I first got it as both carbs were fairly plugged up with the rust ....
I hope that holds up for you. I know quite a few people who had to remove their Kreem and line their tanks with phenol-novolac epoxy instead. The Kreem separates and chunks start coming off and clogging things up. Phenolic epoxy is used to line the huge commercial gasoline storage tanks because it's one of the few things that isn't wrecked by modern gasoline. Caswell sells kits for motorcycle tanks, and you can probably buy the generic stuff cheaper if you can find someone selling small amounts.
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Old November 17th, 2021, 05:08 AM   #49
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Thanks god for Evapo-Rust and for years I seem Red-Kote being used to seal all kind of gas/diesel tank as long as it a steel part.
The real key is in Tank Prep and Sealer Dry Time you do not rush it.
It take you many days to get done right.
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Old November 17th, 2021, 05:43 AM   #50
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I've recently heard reports of Red Kote making gasoline turn pink. That seems to say that it's not holding up well to current gasoline.
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Old November 17th, 2021, 06:47 AM   #51
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I've recently heard reports of Red Kote making gasoline turn pink. That seems to say that it's not holding up well to current gasoline.
That only apply to maybe Ethanol E85 more so with Methanol fuel will take the some color out of it and there no need to worry about it as it normal for the product more so if it cut with ~20% acetone to thin.
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Old November 17th, 2021, 06:59 AM   #52
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My friend was using E10.
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Old November 17th, 2021, 11:32 PM   #53
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hmm, so after my DIY attempt yesterday, I put things back together on bike and did a small test run and it seemed okay when I went around the block, no issue. I was happy that the issue is somehow fixed?

This afternoon, before heading to work, I though I'd give her a quick wash (it had my greasy finger marks on fairings etc.) It's a sunny day and I did a quick wash and off I go to work. On the way to work, she died on me at least 6-7 times. Really bad ones now ****! As if I have somehow amplified the issue A LOT! Also, after my wash, I didnt know that water sits underneath the fuel cap. So when I stopped to fuel up (E10), I opened the cap and a bit of water from the cap went into tank. FML.

She starts fine and idles, but as soon as I open throttle, it's all quiet. I left the choke on and it would somehow struggle but go up to 3000 ish RPM and that pretty much all. Now I need more help and looks like I will need to take things apart and dig deeper into the issue and see how I go about it. What does your experience say about this ? Any suggestions please!
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Old November 21st, 2021, 04:03 AM   #54
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Hi, looks like my previous reply didn't get posted yet, so reposting the response.
Well, long story short, after my DIY attempt as mentioned previously the bike is gone from bad to worst!
The bike starts up, no issue, but dies as soon as I open throttle. The bike barely goes to 3k RPMS and any more throttle, it dies. Even with choke on, not much of difference.
I have tomorrow to open up the bike, try and diagnose and hopefully fix the issue.
I could really use next level help please!!
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Old November 21st, 2021, 04:13 AM   #55
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DIRTY CARBURATOR buddy !
sounds like the main jet is completely plugged in one or both of the carbs.
... remove the fairings and tank and pull both carbs put them on the bench and strip them completely.... clean every hole ! ( just squirting carb cleaner in each hole is not enough).
I bought a carb cleaning brush set on e-bay and a carb cleaning wire probe set
those tools help immensely ! DO NOT get carb cleaner on the carb rubber parts
keep each carb separate from each other and be careful ! this is delicate work
it will take you all day ! and it's not an easy job.
good luck
....
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Old November 21st, 2021, 04:23 AM   #56
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while your into it that deep check ALL the hoses for cracks and leaks or one of them un plugged that could cause your problems.
EYES OPEN observe everything ! if something doesn't look right look it up in the manual !
there is a Post called "lets get naked" that shows how to take the fairings off
here somewhere..maybe in the wiki section. it's a great reference !
....
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Old November 21st, 2021, 04:46 AM   #57
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DIRTY CARBURATOR buddy !
sounds like the main jet is completely plugged in one or both of the carbs.
... remove the fairings and tank and pull both carbs put them on the bench and strip them completely.... clean every hole ! ( just squirting carb cleaner in each hole is not enough).
I bought a carb cleaning brush set on e-bay and a carb cleaning wire probe set
those tools help immensely ! DO NOT get carb cleaner on the carb rubber parts
keep each carb separate from each other and be careful ! this is delicate work
it will take you all day ! and it's not an easy job.
good luck
....
Bob.......
Yes, that's my plan for all day tomorrow, although I am a complete noob when it comes to engines, but I have been watching vids on YouTube and have gotten a bit of understanding on removing fairings and carbs etc... I feel like I'd be able to take things apart, it's just knowing where the problem is?
Until I put things back together and go for a ride, I don't know if I fixed the issue or not. Identifying the problem is the challenge as I don't know what I am looking for :/

I should have had pre-ordered things from ebay or something, as if not for tomorrow, I don't know when my next day off work would be. Last resort would be take her to a mechanic. But I'd rather fix her myself (more so far my own enjoyment and the feeling that I fixed things, but if it goes south, then I'd go to a mechanic). Hopefully I will have an update by this time tomorrow,
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Old November 21st, 2021, 07:17 AM   #58
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OK your not a mechanic ... sure there is alot about that bike that you do not understand but the best way to learn is by doing it yourself !
and you will screw up.... there is no question about that, but you don't know unless you try RIGHT ? and Yes there is a real good possibility you CAN fix it yourself and save alot of money in the process.
When I was a kid I took everything apart... to my parents dismay....
one time I remember vividly I was about 5 years old and I took apart my Mothers wall clock on the kitchen wall... she normally watched me close and I don't know how I was unsupervised long enough for me to get that clock apart but it did happen....I was spinning the gears like tops when my Mom discovered me... I was immediately spanked , and when Dad got home
he took one look at the box my mother had put it in and looked at me and said
you put that thing back together and make sure it works because if you don't I will beat your butt till you bleed ! .... and I was sure he meant every word he said.... so I did... it took longer to put it together than it took to take it apart
but I actually got it back together and working just like I found it....
and avoided the repercussions completely Dad was amazed and mom was delighted... the clock no longer lost 5 min a day it lost only 1 minute a day after that....
I learned by doing.... and you can too !
that clock still sits in my memory where I had to reason where each part went and what they did...how it worked was essential to getting it back together and working....
that motorcycle is the same way you need to understand how the carburetors work in order to make them function as intended once again !
.... pay close attention to the pilot circuit, float bowl and main jet tracks
as that is their main functioning points . and when you take out the air screw note how many turns out it is so you can put it back to the same place....( in other words don't just take it out, count how many turns you can screw it in until it stops (lightly) and then take it out.... there different on each carb on the Ninja... make a note of it so you don't forget !
....
disassemble the carbs and clean the heck out of it get all that discoloration out if it... take every part off that can come off and inspect each part for tiny plugged holes and un plug them... there are several passageways that get plugged up on the ninja carbs... mostly the pilot circuit...that's the circuit that regulates the fuel at idle, the main jet circuit is easier usually because the emulsifier tube does come out, but you still have passage ways that feed it... and they must be cleaned. on almost every carb I have ever cleaned I have found plugged holes in the emulsifier tube ( that is what the main jet attaches to ) a small wire through all the holes makes quick work of them
( wire from a twist tie ? or a strand from a wire brush.)
.....
it ain't an easy task but you CAN DO IT ! think "How does this work" that is the most important part ....reason it out. and you can figure it out !
....
good luck !
Bob........
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Old November 21st, 2021, 01:21 PM   #59
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OK your not a mechanic ... sure there is alot about that bike that you do not understand but the best way to learn is by doing it yourself !..,,..


it ain't an easy task but you CAN DO IT ! think "How does this work" that is the most important part ....reason it out. and you can figure it out !
....
good luck !
Bob........
@bob, thank you so much for your detailed reply and sharing memories, that surely is inspiring. I'm up at the crack of dawn (having gone to bed at 2am) so I can get most of my day with this project today, I'll be posting what happens soon
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 06:14 PM   #60
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So I spent hours trying to remove the carbs (which was a task in itself for me) and try to open up and clean the parts (the best I could think of) putting things back together was harder than I thought, but now the bike won't start. I must have made mistake somewhere when putting things together. The electrical seems okay as starter cranks, but it won't start at all
I don't think I have time or skills to fix this, so I'm gonna have to get a mechanic to come over and have a look. At least it was a good learning curve and an experience for future. Let's see what the mechanic says...
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 06:25 PM   #61
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Do you know about Ducatiman and his pro carb restoration service?
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 06:28 PM   #62
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Do you know about Ducatiman and his pro carb restoration service?
Hi, I've read about this on a few other posts. I guess that's in US somewhere, correct? I live in Australia.
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 07:44 PM   #63
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Hi, I've read about this on a few other posts. I guess that's in US somewhere, correct? I live in Australia.
Ah OK sorry... your location was too cryptic for me I guess.
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 08:34 PM   #64
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So I spent hours trying to remove the carbs (which was a task in itself for me) and try to open up and clean the parts (the best I could think of) putting things back together was harder than I thought, but now the bike won't start. I must have made mistake somewhere when putting things together. The electrical seems okay as starter cranks, but it won't start at all
I don't think I have time or skills to fix this, so I'm gonna have to get a mechanic to come over and have a look. At least it was a good learning curve and an experience for future. Let's see what the mechanic says...
it's not a bad thing to reconise when your in over your head...it's a good thing
I think I would take the carbs off and take them alone to your mechanic
rather than having him come to you...that costs alot more that way.
tell him to clean them REAL GOOD and put them back together correctly as you think you messed up.... letting him know that from the start will help you get back your carbs that work ! ( nothing is guaranteed!)

some people can dive right into a set of carbs and be perfectly fine and get the thing all back together great , others arn't that lucky !
you may have screwed in the air screws all the way and forgot that they have to be backed off before the bike will even start.... I think the right one is 1-3/4 turns out and the left one is 1-1/2 turns out but consult the manual and be sure...
...without the airscrews open it will not start and run.... i'm betting that that is what happened.... because when you got to that point you probably thought ok that's the air screw and it needs to be out a certain amount... but how much? I'll just put them in all the way and check the manual when I am done..... and with all the other stuff, it slipped your mind !
.... most of the stuff if not all the stuff in the carbs will only go in one way so it's real hard to mess up on assembly....it's adjustments that will get you !
never mess with the needle clips leave them in the center slot,
don't change the float setting unless you need to ...
....
carbs can be intimidating but you can fix them yourself just reason out what every part does ....you can do it.
don't give up now ...you almost got it ! LOL
...
Bob.......
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Old November 23rd, 2021, 10:00 PM   #65
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also make sure you have 2 brass vaccum ports on carbs connected to proper hoses. One should go directly to petcock and other to coast-enricher.

Otherwise, petcock never gets activated and no petrol flows.

also make sure your idle adjuster isn't backed out all way.

Shipping to U.S. isn't that bad. I just had 1.5kg package shipped from NSW and it came out to U$32.
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Old November 24th, 2021, 10:03 PM   #66
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@bob & Danno - you guys are really helpful, thank you!

Honestly, working between job and my business, I work 85 to 90+ hour week. As much I'd like to, I really don't have the time to spend on bike myself. I got her especially to get between job and business, and save 2.5 hrs per day on public transport.

I got a mobile mechanic who's happy to come to me and look at the bike and tell me where I messed up for AU$75 and then advise what would cost to fix there onwards.

It's like a circle, I work so much to make more money and to be able to make that money I have to spend more money (on bike) so I can make more money.
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Old November 25th, 2021, 05:04 AM   #67
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LOL... Yes what is wrong with that picture ???? you work your ass off so you can make money so you can spend it on the bike to go to work and make more money..... is there a point where you are supposed to brake even or get ahead?
.... I'm retired now and I no longer do that but believe me I can sympathise with you on that !
I asked my self many times why do I even try ? but the answer always came back, because there wasn't another way !.... but it did get better !
I am now retired but have less than $700 a month coming in...from S.S.I.
...
get your mechanic to come and help you ...sounds like the best move. !
that way you can go to work, come home go to bed,get up go to work....etc.etc. for a decade or so till you get a job that pays enough so you can have a few days off to enjoy that bike...
....
I really don't believe man was meant to live like this but it is better than medieval times, so we take what we can get !
.....
get up go to work come home go to bed, get up go to work come home go to bed.... till something happens to change that and then all bets are off and your scrambling for place to sleep and a roof over your head and another job so you can get up goto work, come home and goto bed....that just seems totally WRONG !
....just put gas in the bike and ride toward the sunset and keep on riding !
...dig a fella a new out house hole for another tank of gas and your off again !....not knowing when you'll eat again or where you'll sleep.... I think I'd take the get up and go to work routine myself !!!!
ya can't win because everyone is in the same boat !
...
good luck !
Bob........
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Old November 25th, 2021, 10:11 AM   #68
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Not everyone. There are people on outside that designed those boats and pond you're floating on... Medieval feudalism is alive and well, just hidden behind modern technology and governments.

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Old January 2nd, 2022, 12:18 AM   #69
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OK I have to respond to the wheezing groaning fuel tank deal.
All fuel tanks on carbureted bikes have to vent to atmosphere to allow gravity flow of fuel to keep up with fuel needed to make power. More power more fuel, simple.
A restricted vent will slow fuel delivery to a threshold of inadequate fuel flow into the carbs, resulting in a stumble or stall.
Opening the fuel cap corrects the imbalance and power is restored.Can happen to any fuel system, car truck plane boat, even fuel injected.
Atmospheric pressure in the fuel tank is required for adequate gravity fuel delivery. Less than atmospheric pressure in the tank means the vented carb bowl has enough atmospheric pressure to stop the fuel flow.
I can't imagine a carbed engine using gravity flow would ever whistle through the vent tube or plumbing. The thing would cease to run from lack of fuel before a whistle was evident.
Now a strong fuel pump might draw enough fuel out of the tank and cause an audible whistle or some such sound before the engine stalled, if the vent was pinched to extreme, and modern bikes have fuel pumps so it could happen, but today we are talking gravity fed carbs.
So here is where I begin..you need a lot of pressure differential to get an audible whistle.
That could come from the canister, like on the pre-gen carbed ninja 250 in the pics above.
I notice that a lot of you guys are in California and so your bikes have emission components that other states didn't have until now. My current project 2008 250 has a lot fewer emission parts and no canister, you knew that already.
However charcoal canisters exist on most all vehicles in the USA since the 1970's, and every one of them has plumbing attached to the induction system. You knew that also.
So a 1976 vette came in to my shop years ago with a collapsed fuel tank. When you opened the fuel filler door the fuel cap was about six inches below the door.
The tank was collapsed by a vacuum leak at the switching diaphragm on the canister and the vent hose was capped. Had the gas cap been vented there might have been a whistle or groan sound as pressure tried to equalize, but the cap was not vented and neither was the tank so it freaking collapsed.
The car drove in with the complaint about the fuel fill, not a stall or performance issue.
It was carbureted and a stall was eminent from lack of fuel, or had the tank been full of fuel the engine would have flooded and stalled, but my point is whistling fuel tanks and or stalling motors may involve more than a restricted vent. I can also believe that a rapid change in temperature of the atmosphere inside a fuel tank with a canister, that is open to the induction system during purge ,could reduce gravity flow to carbs, thus a stall,or stumble.
SuspectPage 3 needs qualified diagnostic help before his carbs come off.
If inadequate fuel delivery is not the issue, or weak spark, or chafed wire etc. is not evident and propane enrichment proves the mixture is leaned out, get a qualified carb man on the job.
The end
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Old January 2nd, 2022, 08:00 PM   #70
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Hi guys, hope you all had a wonderful Christmas and wish you all a happy new year!!

Going back to my old story, I had 2 mechanics come in look at the bike and couldn't fix. One took the carbs and cleaned it, couldn't put them back on. I wonder how were they mechanics if they couldn't even get one bike started. Anyway, so now the bike is in pieces, I need to put it together, but I am lost on that path. Need your expertise please.

Picture A) where does the hose connect to?

Picture B) 1. What corrects to the end of white cylinder thing?
2. Are these connections correct?

Picture C) What hose connects there?

Picture D) Is this connection correct?

Picture E) Where is this supposed to go, lol, he's left behind?

Picture F) the T Hose connections, are they correctly fitted? The main source comes from top of the engine, one end of T goes to right carb front right side (towards engine) and other side of T goes into left side carb first pipe. Hope that makes sense.

Also, after all the connections (right or wrongly done plus missing a few as below) the bike finally fired up (it didn't earlier at all) but again, keeps running fine, but if I open the throttle, it dies. So I'm back to the issue on day one, lost nearly 2 months, and a lot of time and inconvenience.

Hoping you'd be able to help her get started at least good enough to go to yet another mechanic.
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Old January 2nd, 2022, 09:31 PM   #71
Bob KellyIII
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Now we know why they could come by and have a look eh? looking for an easy buck....
I can't help you.... you need to get the manual and follow the hose routing diagram to a "T". you can do it, just start at one end and go to the other ! it's not that hard. then double check every hose to make certain they are right.
its imperative that they all be on their proper connection... inspect the hose as you do it if their cracked badly make a new one and replace it.
....
and a word of caution, the guy cleaned the carbs for you ....
..... their NOT CLEAN !
more than likely their still screwed up inside ! the Idle circuit is extremely hard to clean and it won't run right till it's completely clean.... but ya never know you could get lucky !
....
the pictures help but only enough to hint at which hose that is... we need to know what it's connected to at the other end ! the hose diagram shows that
that is why YOU should be following it .... get the manual !
....
Bob...
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Old January 2nd, 2022, 09:44 PM   #72
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First, you have to recognize there are NO mechanics, zip, nada, zilch, none that can work on carbs properly! Unless they are at least 65-yrs old; they simply do not have experience and training for this. STOP looking for mechanics to solve your problems, they will only make it worse. YOU must be one to learn and fix this bike. If you don't want to do that, then sell it and buy running bike with EFI. Will save you tonnes of time and money in long run.

A) drain for leaks from fuel-level sender. Snake hose down past shock and aim open end to ground

D) starter power cable. Other end should connect to M terminal of starter solenoid

Use these to reconnect carb-hoses properly





One way to determine where things go is from parts diagrams
https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts...8915#sch550359

And manual:


Vacuum-T on between vacuum port and coast enricher connects to PAIR valve above cylinder head.



You probably don't have CA EVAP system with 3-port tank. Single vent port on tank should have hose that goes down left side of bike and exits down by rear shock.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; January 3rd, 2022 at 08:59 AM.
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Old January 3rd, 2022, 02:30 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Picture A) where does the hose connect to?
That just drain hose for and fuel level in case of a leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Picture B) 1. What corrects to the end of white cylinder thing?
2. Are these connections correct?
1: Water return see part 16160A
2: Is correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Picture C) What hose connects there?
Water return see part 92005A

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Picture D) Is this connection correct?
Water input see part 49116

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Picture E) Where is this supposed to go, lol, he's left behind?
That goes to 1 and C see part 39062D

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Picture F) the T Hose connections, are they correctly fitted? The main source comes from top of the engine, one end of T goes to right carb front right side (towards engine) and other side of T goes into left side carb first pipe. Hope that makes sense.
Look fine here
See DannoXYZ photo
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Old January 3rd, 2022, 09:10 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectPage3 View Post
Picture F) the T Hose connections, are they correctly fitted? The main source comes from top of the engine, one end of T goes to right carb front right side (towards engine) and other side of T goes into left side carb first pipe. Hope that makes sense.
This area can cause lots of problems. Couldn't quite understand your description. Look at above photos and verify yours matches

1. this hose connects only to ONE carb
2. starts at right carb's brass vacuum port
3. goes to T
4. one exit of T goes to coast enricher on far left (UFO looking thing)
5. other exit of T goes forward to PAIR valve above cylinder head


one related note, left carb's brass vacuum port should have one hose going directly to petcock's vacuum port. At some point, we need to test and determine if petcock is actually flowing petrol and at what rate (ltr/min).

This is source of petrol for engine. Doesn't matter one bit if carbs are clean or if hoses are connected properly. If petcock does not flow petrol, nothing else matters. Bike will not run without petrol.

You've already confirmed this by squirting petrol directly into airbox, thus bypassing carbs. Bike starts up and revs fine when petrol is manually squirted in. Conclusion is that petrol flow is blocked somewhere between tank to petcock to carbs to engine.
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Old January 3rd, 2022, 09:29 AM   #75
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also install fuel-filtre with tail end going into carb-inlet pipe. So that petrol flows into inside of filtre 1st, then flows to outside to go into carbs. If it's installed backwards, flow will crumple it up and impede flow.

Stick tail of filter into inlet pipe 1st, so only hard plastic ring is visible. Then slide fuel hose over inlet pipe.


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Old January 3rd, 2022, 09:36 AM   #76
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Or alternatively get rid of it and use a pleated paper filter.
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Old January 3rd, 2022, 10:34 AM   #77
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Key to effective troubleshooting (fast and inexpensive) is non-invasive and non-interference testing to come up with numbers. Not changing anything in system and not introducing additional errors. We want to leave everything alone and test small sections at time until we positively identify single problem.

1. BIG-PICTURE: great, you've found problem is lack of petrol from carbs by squirting directly into airbox. Minimal invasion and changes to system, you put air-filtre and cover back onto airbox and everything's back to way it was.

Now we just need to test individual parts of petrol-flow starting from source to destination with minimal interferences or changes.

2. TANK - how do we know for sure petrol is leaving tank? One test was riding with cap open to verify there's no vacuum build-up, great, that passed. What about actual exit at bottom? If we remove petcock completely and dump petrol in filler, we should see it drain out bottom hole right? Let's assume that will function properly as exit is plenty large and won't clog up overnight.

3. PETCOCK - next stage in petrol flow. We want to test petcock in-place and operating it exactly same way as engine would under proper operating conditions. That means applying vacuum to little hose and seeing if fuel flows from bigger outlet hose. Unplug outlet fuel-hose from carbs and aim into measuring cup.

3a. Crank engine for 10-sec and see much petrol flowed. Dump measuring-cup back into tank and point outlet hose into cup for next test

3b. Apply vacuum to little vacuum-hose either with pump or by sucking on small hose. Be careful as you might get mouthful of petrol if petcock diaphragm is broken. Which in itself is successful testing of petcock, but not very tasty. If you don't get mouthful, then diaphragm may be OK. Continue sucking and let petrol flow for 10-seconds and verify how much you've collected compared to 3a


I had similar issue with bike dying after 30-seconds on track. It would idle and warm up just fine in pits. Then after I got on track, it would die exactly 1/4th way into lap. I pushed it back to pits and started it up. It start and ran just fine for several minutes. Went back out on track and again it'd be dead 30-sec 1/4 lap in!! : Logically, it appears to be petrol-flow problem... must be carb issue... maybe...

I did petcock flow-test and found it! AHAH! I had used extra long vacuum-hose between carb and petcock so it would be easier to re-install tank. But... this created an extra loop of vacuum hose that I draped over backbone of frame. Then when I lowered tank, it pinched this loop of hose and restricted vacuum going to petcock. This lower vacuum opened petcock just enough to flow for idle and sitting around pits. But not enough to handle WOT.

So... you need to confirm that your petcock is flowing sufficient petrol in ltr/min before doing ANYTHING else more invasive and possibly damaging to your bike. It's simple, look at picture above, disconnect fuel hose from carb-inlet and aim into measuring cup. Apply vacuum to little port on petcock with pump or by sucking on it. Time flow for 10-sec and stop. How much petrol did you collect?


4. FUEL HOSE - between petcock and carb. We can remove hose from petcock straighten it out and look inside. Should be clear from end to end with no obstructions. Can also floss it from end-to-end with test-tube brush to ensure it's truly clear.

5. CARBS - symptoms of dying overnight doesn't fit issue of dirty and clogged carbs. Which occurs slowly over time, months & years. So most likely issue with petcock or fuel-hose, see above


Note that none of these tests require completely disassembling bike down to last nut & bolt. And doesn't require trouble-inducing re-assembly. Do tests to positively identify problem area before going to desperate measures!

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Old January 3rd, 2022, 12:44 PM   #78
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You guys are amazing ! thank you !
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Old January 4th, 2022, 01:31 PM   #79
SuspectPage3
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Thank you so for your detailed help, I'll certainly try this out and see how I go,
I'll keep you updated ☺️
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Old January 8th, 2022, 10:27 AM   #80
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Or alternatively get rid of it and use a pleated paper filter.
So, Jim where did find a small pleated paper filter as even one find seems to be way big for the Ninja 250 as only one, I have sintered porous filter like in this photo and every pleated paper filter I run into are 1"1/2 long by 1"3/4 wide so where get your? make and model number or link from ebay if have one.
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