Is the 300 a worthy upgrade?

[kcaja1]

I have an 09 250 with 10.5k miles and I love this bike. I bought it used over a year ago with only 1.6k miles so I've put 10k over 18 months. I mainly use it for commuting 50 miles round trip 4 days a week and some weekend fun. Half of my commute is on HOV so I need power to pass sometimes which the 250 barely delivers at high speed. I'm totally happy with the 250 for what I need it for. Will the 300 satisfy this need for power to pass? is 20-25% power increase worth $2500(after I sell my 250 in spring)?

[Alex]

Only you can answer that question. I find that the 300 is a better bike in just about all aspects, but in none of those aspects is it a night and day difference from the 250. On the power front, it does add about 10 mph to the performance envelope. What I mean by this is this: (all speeds actual, not speedo indicated)

On my 250, it would accelerate to 70 mph quickly, it would make its way to 80 mph more leisurely, and if I tucked down and had no wind, after quite a long while it would nudge 91 or 92. The 300 is identical, except add 10 mph. It gets to 80 quickly, makes its way to 90 a bit more leisurely, and tucked in and no headwind, it will get a little over 100 mph without too much trouble. This means that comfortable cruising at 80 mph leaves quite a bit of capability in reserve, and the bike can accelerate from that speed, even without dropping down a gear.

But it's still the same bike in a very similar form factor, so it still isn't optimized for long-distance touring, isn't the best choice for riding 2-up, and wouldn't provide any new capabilities that you don't already have with the 250.

[choneofakind]

But you'll look like 12x better when you commute on a 300 compared to when you commute on a 250.

[lgk]

i think its worth the upgrade.
you might actually end up saving gas, due to the lower revs at 65-80.

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

But you'll look like 12x better when you commute on a 300 compared to when you commute on a 250.

I ran the number..it only came out to 11.27x better. Not sure if good enough..

[choneofakind]

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Miles_Prower

I ran the number..it only came out to 11.27x better. Not sure if good enough..

last i heard the threshold for good was 10, technically thats significantly better than good.

[Malicious Logic]

Insurance is also a factor to consider....could very well be personal circumstances but my insurance for the 250 was around $250 for the year I think...quoted a Ninja 300 out of curiousity and it was a lot more. Think around $150 A MONTH, maybe a little less. Like I said, I'm sure this will vary from person to person but at those prices, I could insure a supersport.

[Alex]

I'd be surprised if insurance was a factor; definitely work with different providers if it seems to be a problem. Mine went up $20/year with the new bike compared to the '08 250. YMMV.

[lgk]

i was quoted the same price for the 250 as the 300 with all coverages equal.

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by lgk

last i heard the threshold for good was 10, technically thats significantly better than good.

lol i will make a note in my report

[tnr4]

Although I adore my 300, I can't imagine getting rid of a 250 for it. Unless it is about looks, in which case (and yup, this is totally subjective), I do think the 300 is a huge upgrade. But if I were in your shoes, and was thinking to spend the money, I'd go Ninja 650 or SV650 -- has that higher speed performance you're looking for, still a budget(ish) bike, still gets good gas mileage, and will be LOADS more comfortable.

All that said, if the 300 makes you horny, sell your bike and buy one. That's what I did.

[Jiggles]

Area P + rejet + k&n airfilter = 20% more power for $800

Just sayin

[choneofakind]

Not the same Jiggles, not the same at all.

[Jiggles]

Pretty much exactly the same

[choneofakind]

No, the newer bike has different suspension, different gearing, more torque down low than a modded 250R, is still stock quiet, and is fuel injected and smooth.

Different.

I like my full exhaust/full intake/aftermarket fuel injection, but if I could get that performance (plus some) with a dead quiet stock exhaust system and a slick oem fuel injection system, I would.

[Byakkotai]

Good points guys - OP is looking for just a power increase (so far) and I think if the 250 relationship hasn't soured too much - Jiggles' recommendation would save money.

But then again - OP is saying that the 250 is going to be sold in the spring. In which case, I would recommend the 300 as an alternative to being completely bikeless

So yeah a three way fork in the road -

1.) Keep 250 cause obviously you are happy with it (minus power at times)
2.) Keep 250 and give it the Jiggle mod
3.) Sell 250 and get a 300 or + cc's (because you can )

Oh and for $2500 more to 300 - you get a pass button?

[gt_turbo]

LOL jiggles likes to tell himself it's the same to make him feel better for having bought his 250 just months before the release of the 300. a modded 250 jet+intake+exhaust can barely touch a stock 300. watch the dyno videos i posted.

the 300 with FI = better fuel efficiency, better power delivery, & no choking. that alone makes it worth it for me. then you add in the increased power, new zx10r like styling, updated dash, slipper clutch and it's just all icing on the cake. gotta start saving for next spring.

[Jiggles]

But my 250 IS faster than those 300s.

They are so fat and non aerodynamic

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

But my 250 IS faster than those 300s.

They are so fat and non aerodynamic

Your 250 probably thinks the same thing about you.

[Jiggles]

She lubs me all the same

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Area P + rejet + k&n airfilter = 20% more power for $800

Just sayin

Areap is making the 300 exhaust can you imagine 20% or so on a 300 then its got 40% more power on a stock ninja

[Jiggles]

Mines still faster

[rusninja]

oh jiggy we'll see :P

[kcaja1]

Originally Posted by Alex

Only you can answer that question. I find that the 300 is a better bike in just about all aspects, but in none of those aspects is it a night and day difference from the 250. On the power front, it does add about 10 mph to the performance envelope. What I mean by this is this: (all speeds actual, not speedo indicated)

On my 250, it would accelerate to 70 mph quickly, it would make its way to 80 mph more leisurely, and if I tucked down and had no wind, after quite a long while it would nudge 91 or 92. The 300 is identical, except add 10 mph. It gets to 80 quickly, makes its way to 90 a bit more leisurely, and tucked in and no headwind, it will get a little over 100 mph without too much trouble. This means that comfortable cruising at 80 mph leaves quite a bit of capability in reserve, and the bike can accelerate from that speed, even without dropping down a gear.

But it's still the same bike in a very similar form factor, so it still isn't optimized for long-distance touring, isn't the best choice for riding 2-up, and wouldn't provide any new capabilities that you don't already have with the 250.

I guess the answer is no for me. $2500 is a lot to justify just to gain 10 mph quicker acceleration/top speed. I will just run this 250 up to 30k miles then I'll look to 300 then.

[lgk]

it sounds hard to justify it but if you look at the feature sets as a whole it does justify the increase to me.

fuel injection $750
suspension upgrade $50
Sprocket change $ 50
35 additional ccs $900
slipper clutch $100
digital display $150

to upgrade a new gen to be equivalent you would need to spend over $2000 if you do the work yourself.

for additional $500 you get a new bike, with better gas mileage, fast starts, faster acceleration, power, comfort, warranty, and better insurance coverage.

far from being a bad deal.

[kcaja1]

Originally Posted by lgk

it sounds hard to justify it but if you look at the feature sets as a whole it does justify the increase to me.

fuel injection $750
suspension upgrade $50
Sprocket change $ 50
35 additional ccs $900
slipper clutch $100
digital display $150

to upgrade a new gen to be equivalent you would need to spend over $2000 if you do the work yourself.

for additional $500 you get a new bike, with better gas mileage, fast starts, faster acceleration, power, comfort, warranty, and better insurance coverage.

far from being a bad deal.

I like mods too but the things you mentioned are not important to me thus, I have not or will not get those mods anyway. Who knows maybe I'll be sucked in anyway just for the 'greatest, shiniest' aspect of the 300. I flip cars this way so I won't rule out myself from flipping motorcycles.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by kcaja1

I like mods too but the things you mentioned are not important to me thus, I have not or will not get those mods anyway. Who knows maybe I'll be sucked in anyway just for the 'greatest, shiniest' aspect of the 300. I flip cars this way so I won't rule out myself from flipping motorcycles.

i think its a good flip, have done most of the upgrades mentioned except for the big bore kit and slipper clutch.

they were all worthwhile upgrades for a daily commuter.

i imagine the slipper clutch will be good for stop and go traffic.

[choneofakind]

You're never going to use a slipper in stop and go traffic unless you regularly go from 75 mph traffic to 25 mph stop-go by dropping from 6th to 1st...

Here's the basics of how a slipper clutch works. All they do is keep you from over-revving your engine and locking your back wheel if you downshift too aggressively.

Aka, if you're at the track on the back straight doing 100 mph and need to get down a few gears for a 60 mph turn, you can just bang down a couple gears at once and focus on braking, instead of having to go down one at a time and blip each time as the engine slows enough to accept the next lower gear. They're kinda useless on the street if you're riding normally.

• fuel injection: Nice upgrade, but not a deal breaker. An oem system is better than an aftermarket system, just because it has replacement parts more readily available.
• suspension upgrade: yes. Well worth it, but not that expensive/hard to do on your 250R.
• Sprocket change: Not a deal breaker either, but taller 6th would be nice
• 35 additional ccs: meh. Torque is good. But my 250 cc engine is just fine until it dies. Not a deal breaker.
• slipper clutch: dumb.
• digital display: meh

What was not mentioned: better fitment of uber sticky tires (rim is 1/2" wider, a 140's and 150's will fit better. There are some nice tires in 140 and 150 sizes.)

Don't let this make you think the 300 is a bad bike. I'm thrilled to see new bikes in this market!! The 300 is a great combo on paper. But to me, it's not worth buying as an "upgrade". If I was looking for a second small displacement bike, or was looking for a new bike already, the 300 is what I would get, hands down. But as a bike to buy instead of my current bike, meh.

[lgk]

Thought they said it made the clutch easier to pull, in addition to everything.

If thats true i wish had it yesterday when i was driving though DC.

[choneofakind]

Ride a pregen. The clutch pull on that is already light. The pull on the 08-12 is also damn light. I've read the 300 clutch is a little vague. I'd rather have feeling over lightness.

[YunMing]

Why upgrade from a beginner bike to another beginner bike.

[choneofakind]

People buy Civics their whole life.

What makes a bike for beginners only?

Alex is on his 3rd ninjette. He has other larger, more powerful bikes as well. alex.s prefers his 250 for the track and his 600 for the street, because going "fast" is fun on the 250 without going f-a-s-t.

[YunMing]

Good point. I don't really justify upgrading to a ninja 300 for a small power increase however. At the price tag of 4800, dealer fees, taxes, and insurance no thank you. I would agree with jiggles and just upgrade the current ninja 250 to run fast or just as fast as the 300 for about 1000 bucks.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Alex Annie is on his her 3rd ninjette (which Alex makes sure to exercise often ). He has other larger, more powerful bikes as well.

FTFY.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by YunMing

I would agree with jiggles and just upgrade the current ninja 250 to run fast or just as fast as the 300 for about 1000 bucks.

Meh. I've argued that with Jiggles as well. Until more of us get more riding time on the new bike, I think we can't definitively say that.

Dyno runs, dyno prints, and a quick analysis can be seen here:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showp...32&postcount=1

I really don't think that it's possible to make a 250 perform like that. I know my 250 (full exhaust, full intake, fuel injection conversion. The fuel map needs work though ) doesn't, and it's a pregen, which means I already have more compression than a newgen. When you factor in the fact that the 300 is getting that kind of performance quietly, it's not necessarily true to think that modding your 250 will compensate for engine size and a complete redesign.

Don't forget, that 300 is stock. If you bump compression up to the same level as the 250 ( or up even more to where the pregen was), do a full exhaust, and do a good dyno tune, the numbers are going to stomp every 250 mod you can do for a reasonable amount of money.

Originally Posted by Alex

FTFY.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by YunMing

I would agree with jiggles and just upgrade the current ninja 250 to run fast or just as fast as the 300 for about 1000 bucks.

i don't think you could do it for $1000, and the performance won't be the same.

in the end when you resell, value doesn't increase much with the parts added.
imo, you better off with the newer bike now than when the 2008s first came out.

they are both good bikes, it just that the 300 is a much better highway commuter than a 250, and has a lot more potential than the newgen.

its worth the $2500 upgrade, unless you cant afford it.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

What was not mentioned: better fitment of uber sticky tires (rim is 1/2" wider, a 140's and 150's will fit better. There are some nice tires in 140 and 150 sizes.)

there's another $300 on an aftermarket wheel.

the 300 is everything an upgraded 250 is and more in a cost effective package.
i'm sure someone will come out with a regular clutch for people that want them.

[Jiggles]

It's really not a practical upgrade from a perfectly fine 250. Only a crazy person would do that

lgk are you a salesman? LOOK AT ALL THE MONEY YOU WILL SAVE BY BUYING A NEW BIKE!!!

If my 250 was totaled (and I couldn't find yet another 2011 black stock 250 ) I would consider getting the 300 but to go $2500 out of pocket to trade my 250 for a 300? Nah, not enough of an incentive. This of course is coming from a guy who traded in his 2012 650 for a 2012 1000

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's really not a practical upgrade from a perfectly fine 250. Only a crazy person would do that