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Old July 3rd, 2011, 04:41 PM   #1
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The Ninja Choke King/ God, Please HELP me

OK, so my dumbass brother didn't start my bike at all while I was gone for 12 months in Afghanistan. It has set in storage for about 15 months now. My fuel gelled up in the carbs and this is what I have done so far:

Replaced spark plugs with NGK Uridium plugs
Removed carb
Disassembled carbs without seperating them
Cleaned carbs, floats, needles and jets (removed jets to clean, they had green corrosion on and inside the jets) with B-12 Carb Cleaner Spray
Adjusted the choke cable to take out all extra slack (just like when you set your idle screw flush with the throttle arm)
Reassembled in EXACT REVERSE ORDER after the carbs where completely cleaned to my trained eyes....

So this is what happened next:

The little ninja (2009 250r) would only run with the choke on fully. I adjusted the idle screw to try to gain more rpms while the choke was on and only could get it up to about 3200 rpms. It sounded like it was fluxuating between 3200- 1500 back to 3200 rpms repetively. It does this gradually as the bike gets warmer. I only can back the choke off a 1/4 way before the engine dies when the engine is warmed for 20 minutes. If I pull the throttle any it bogs down and dies. Doesn't matter how slow I pull/ roll the throttle. I even tried to ride the bike in 1st gear by ONLY easing off the throttle. Again, any gas given by throttle and it dies while riding. Everything on my bike is OEM. I used premium unleaded with the right amount of Sea Foam for this attempted repair. Also, there was continuous LITE grey smoke comming out the exhaust muffler. But only visable for 2 inches from the end of the can.

Please help me. I have no money and I'm trying to get this thing running so I can afford to go to work instead of driving my huge SUV. This sucks and I hate my Brother right now who can't pay me for his mistake. Guess I made the mistake in the end for trusting him while I was fighting for his Freedom.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 05:11 PM   #2
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You mean you forgot to drain the gas before you put it in storage?
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 06:44 PM   #3
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Remove and clean the carbs; the jets are gummed up. This must be the #1 problem with the 250 when it has been winterized improperly or sat for as little as a few weeks with gas in the carbs. See the wiki for very helpful DIY guides.

good luck!
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 06:46 PM   #4
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Could you see through the main and pilot jets? If not, blow compressed air through them. Once you reinstall the carbs and connect all hoses with the tank, etc., adjust the idle screw when choke is on.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 06:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
You mean you forgot to drain the gas before you put it in storage?
This ^
And the "while I was fighting for his freedom" line... c'mon.
Twas your choice to be the governments slave lol.

The fuel could be gelled everywhere from the tank through the whole system.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 07:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfh4xx View Post
This ^
And the "while I was fighting for his freedom" line... c'mon.
Twas your choice to be the governments slave lol.

The fuel could be gelled everywhere from the tank through the whole system.
Yes it was my choice to serve for our country ass clown and I forgot to mention the tank was cleaned as well. "lol" Show some more respect for those who returned home to inconciderate people like yourself. I don't take my job as a joke.

As for the other appropriate post above, I did clean everything and the jets looked brand new when I put them back in. I had stabilizer in the left over gas. I know that stuff don't last forever and there was mistakes made one both parts. Either way, I listed what happened and what I did above. I appologize if I'm not the happiest person in here right now but riding my motorcycle means Freedom for me and it's one of the few things I looked forward to doing when I was overseas. Please, if anyone has any other suggestions, feel free. I'm thinking it has something to do with the air/fuel mixture. I know nothing about motorcycles as a mechanic however have worked on cars/ trucks for a very long time, so I am not all mechanically incline. I have the tools, just need the knowledge. Thanks for your suggestions and anymore help you can give.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 07:35 PM   #7
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Kkim has put together the reference thread on this:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65198
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 08:03 PM   #8
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Jason,

clean the pilot jets again... they are still gunked up somewhere/somehow.

also, drain and refill the tank w/ fresh gas if you have not done so yet.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 08:09 PM   #9
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Twas your choice to be the governments slave lol.
that was uncalled for.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 11:25 PM   #10
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Sorry to say but it sounds like your will be tearing down your carbs again. In your OP you said you cleaned all your jets. Did you also clean the passages in the carb body? This is usually overlooked. There are small air bleed passages that also clog easily. Totally disassemble your carbs and use spray cleaner and compressed air to blow out all the passages where the jets and needles go. Make sure you remove the slide diaphrams before blowing through any passages to prevent damaging them. When you blow through passages,blow both ways until air flows freely. Then reassemble and with luck it will run and you can sync your carbs and your on the road. Carbs can be drag. Hope this helps, good luck.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 11:55 PM   #11
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he's from northern cal-bred to be a mindless hater of the military-can't help himself
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Old July 4th, 2011, 09:09 AM   #12
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Something along these lines ^.

I dislike it when people come off like their better than everyone or did people a favor by signing up for the military.
I mean good for you, im sure it was an empowering and bettering experience for you and all that.
And Kim, it wasnt an insult... its true. You make the decision to sign a contract and do whatever they tell you whenever they tell you in exchange for cash.
I see nothing extraordinarily respectable about that especially when it involves wrecking havok upon the lives and communities of people just like you and me in other parts of the world.
And then to expect to be honored and praised for it? /facepalm
Anyhoo's carry on, I'll keep outa this thread.

Also, I would clean carbs and jets, replace the fuel filter and pull the fuel lines to run some solvent through to clean em out.
Wouldnt want any chance of gunk further up in the system getting into the carbs right after you clean em.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 09:17 AM   #13
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I can see this guy's ^ point, but what were you trying to accomplish with that comment? Needed a little attention?

Sorry to the OP for stepping into this thread with no insight on your issue. But that post about your service pissed me off.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 09:25 AM   #14
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If your asking me about my comment "Twas your choice to be the gov's slave", its explained above.
I've heard too many people who have thrown "while I was fighting for their freedom" line around, especially when it has no place.

Quote:
Guess I made the mistake in the end for trusting him while I was fighting for his Freedom.
Was that line really needed in this sentence?

I have no issues with people choosing to be in the military, its their choice.
I do have issue siwth people expecting somehting from others because they chose to do so.
You gonna give me free play because Im a Salesman at a car dealership?
My brother didnt empty the fuel out of my bike... WHILE I WAS SELLING CARS. DEAR GOD.
Hahah, sorry for the cheesy example but I think it gets my point across.

One of my best friends is in the Marines and he never pulls stuff like that.
Hope that answers your question, I dont want to start troubles on this board.

P.s. Happy 4'th of July.
Also, reviewing OP's post... Dont use Premium, these bikes take basic unleaded.
The SeaFoam was a good idea and thats what produced the lite grey smoke.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 09:32 AM   #15
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Try to find some small diameter wire you can run through the orifices in the jets themselves. The carb cleaner may not have knocked out some gunk trapped in them.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #16
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Jason,

clean the pilot jets again... they are still gunked up somewhere/somehow.

also, drain and refill the tank w/ fresh gas if you have not done so yet.
This!

A bit of compressed air through them jets too.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65198
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:53 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfh4xx View Post
Something along these lines ^.

I dislike it when people come off like their better than everyone or did people a favor by signing up for the military.
I mean good for you, im sure it was an empowering and bettering experience for you and all that.
And Kim, it wasnt an insult... its true. You make the decision to sign a contract and do whatever they tell you whenever they tell you in exchange for cash.
I see nothing extraordinarily respectable about that especially when it involves wrecking havok upon the lives and communities of people just like you and me in other parts of the world.
And then to expect to be honored and praised for it? /facepalm
Anyhoo's carry on, I'll keep outa this thread.

Also, I would clean carbs and jets, replace the fuel filter and pull the fuel lines to run some solvent through to clean em out.
Wouldnt want any chance of gunk further up in the system getting into the carbs right after you clean em.
I understand, I don't like them type of people either. I was really just being sarcastic and pissed off at "my brother". Not demanding respect, respect is given plenty to me. KKIM's homeland Army unit replaced us so we could come home. Anyways, no problem anymore don't worry about it and thanks for your new suggestions. I'm actually gonna use an aftermarket fuel filter now because of your post.

Gonna take the carbs out tomorrow. Today is the 4th, so Happy 4th of July to everyone. Let's blow crap up. Will keep you posted for my 2nd try on the carbs.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 11:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KELPHYN View Post
Sorry to say but it sounds like your will be tearing down your carbs again. In your OP you said you cleaned all your jets. Did you also clean the passages in the carb body? This is usually overlooked. There are small air bleed passages that also clog easily. Totally disassemble your carbs and use spray cleaner and compressed air to blow out all the passages where the jets and needles go. Make sure you remove the slide diaphrams before blowing through any passages to prevent damaging them. When you blow through passages,blow both ways until air flows freely. Then reassemble and with luck it will run and you can sync your carbs and your on the road. Carbs can be drag. Hope this helps, good luck.
Sorry, not familiar with all the technical part names.... Can you explain to me what and where on the carbs the "slide diaphrams". I also have no idea what syncing carbs is. Not trying to sound stupid, I'm just a hands on learner and after I learn something I do it without remembering all the technical names and instructions. LOL.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 11:25 AM   #19
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http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_a_c...arbs_explained

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...n_the_carbs%3F
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Old July 4th, 2011, 11:47 AM   #20
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I dont think anyone thinks they are better here i think if his brother agreed to do something and did not and caused a error its his brothers fault. Simple. Lets say jason had a dog idk maybe he does have one and his brother was taking care of it but forgot to feed it and it died. Same thing there.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 12:03 PM   #21
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Glad we got past that

I believe the slide diaphragms are the fragile black rubber piece you see when you take the cap off the carb. I could be wrong but those pieces tear easy so be careful with them.

Typically carb tuning goes in the following order, and you may wish to do all of the following since you will be pulling the carbs.
I would simply for the peace of mind and knowing she'll be running perfect when you straddle dat saddle. ;P

Check the Valve Lash - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9787
Valve Adjustment - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9924
Carb Syncing - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9754
Idle Adjust - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10246

Hope this helps.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 02:12 PM   #22
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Glad we got past that

I believe the slide diaphragms are the fragile black rubber piece you see when you take the cap off the carb. I could be wrong but those pieces tear easy so be careful with them.

Typically carb tuning goes in the following order, and you may wish to do all of the following since you will be pulling the carbs.
I would simply for the peace of mind and knowing she'll be running perfect when you straddle dat saddle. ;P

Check the Valve Lash - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9787
Valve Adjustment - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9924
Carb Syncing - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9754
Idle Adjust - http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10246

Hope this helps.
Thanks, I will take the carbs apart all the way this time. I have plenty of B-12 to spray but no compressed air. Gonna try this new workshop canned air I found in the store the other day if I cant find someone with an air compressor. I know what you are talking about now. Yeah, they seem like could tear easy. One of my friends was telling me i may have to reset the valves too. Does that sound like it would be a problem too?
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Old July 4th, 2011, 02:17 PM   #23
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One of my friends was telling me i may have to reset the valves too. Does that sound like it would be a problem too?
no.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 03:31 PM   #24
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I don't see the valves being an issue if the bike ran when you parked it. I think alot of rides jump into valve adjustments to soon. Heck I've got 48000kms on mine and still haven't had to adjust them from factory, but then maybe I'm lucky.
Anyhoo back to the task at hand. The canned air should be sufficient, just blow the crap out of every hole you find.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 03:39 PM   #25
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Make sure the prime/run petcock is set correctly. With taking everything apart and putting it back together, something small like that could get overlooked. Good luck to you.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 05:33 PM   #26
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By reset valves he probably means adjust them which is covered above.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #27
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WOOOOHOOOO!!!! It runs... kind of. You know that passage way by the main jets and the pilot jets? ( brass insert passage)One was clogged. I had to use a piece of wire to un clog it and then blasted it with carb cleaner. I then put everything back together and the bike is running and idleing with no problem. However, when I roll my throttle back medium to fast speed, it blogs down and up a couple times before it starts running smoothly. When i'm in any of the ears while driving, it does this when I roll the throttle hard. I have to eaze on my throttle to prevent it from bogging down. What do you guys think the problem is? I have stock everything however, I have about 4 drilled holes on the end of my exhaust (previous owner drilled them out because he thought it would sound better I guess). It ran fine before the storage misshap with those same holes. Any suggestions?
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Old July 9th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #28
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I see nothing extraordinarily respectable about that especially when it involves wrecking havok upon the lives and communities of people just like you and me in other parts of the world.
And then to expect to be honored and praised for it? /facepalm
Well, you can get the %#*\€ out if you dont like it. The military that you dont appreciate is the only thing standing between you and having a boot on the back of your head. Feel free to hop on the next boat to a foreign cesspool of dictatorship. Next time show a little gratitude for those that are willing to sacrifice themselves so that you dont have to.

To my fellow veterans... Thanks for serving.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #29
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Well, you can get the %#*\€ out if you dont like it. The military that you dont appreciate is the only thing standing between you and having a boot on the back of your head. Feel free to hop on the next boat to a foreign cesspool of dictatorship. Next time show a little gratitude for those that are willing to sacrifice themselves so that you dont have to.

To my fellow veterans... Thanks for serving.
Thanks for your support but that issue has already been reloved. Some people have their set ways of thinking and other like me do demand a bit of respect because a lot of people take for granted the freedoms I risk my life for. Even though they do not ask me to serve for them, they are still practicing those freedoms. And that's the beauty of having freedom, you can say anything you want to (because people like me fight for our country's rights). I still wish to continue this thread without anymore problems though. So with that said, can we cut the B.S. and move on to helping one another like we used to do all the time (the good old days)?

"We have it so good and easy and yet we still piss on one another.... WHY?"
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Old July 10th, 2011, 10:26 AM   #30
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Reposting again with aquired picture:

WOOOOHOOOO!!!! It runs... kind of. You know that passage way by the main jets and the pilot jets? ( brass insert passage)One was clogged. I had to use a piece of wire to un clog it and then blasted it with carb cleaner. I then put everything back together and the bike is running and idleing with no problem. However, when I roll my throttle back medium to fast speed, it blogs down and up a couple times before it starts running smoothly. When i'm in any of the ears while driving, it does this when I roll the throttle hard. I have to eaze on my throttle to prevent it from bogging down. What do you guys think the problem is? I have stock everything however, I have about 4 drilled holes on the end of my exhaust (previous owner drilled them out because he thought it would sound better I guess). It ran fine before the storage misshap with those same holes. Any suggestions?

One thing I failed to mention and this may help diagnose my current problem is the bike was running at 3600 ft elevation before it was improperly stored and I'm currently at 700 ft elevation. Don't forget about the exhaust with 5 holes drilled in it right under the baffle cap (stock exhaust/ OEM). If you need me to post a pic of my exhaust, I can do so.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 02:39 PM   #31
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with regards to your running problem- did you drain out the old gas in the tank and refill with fresh gas? if not, do so and add some seafoam to the gas according to the instructions on the bottle. sounds like you still have carb issues.

try this... ride the bike and repeat the running problem. while riding the bike, turn the choke on and see if the problem improves or gets worse.

also, when you were in the carbs, did you by chance remove the mixture screw plugs and shim the needles? That would have been an excellent time to do that.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #32
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with regards to your running problem- did you drain out the old gas in the tank and refill with fresh gas? if not, do so and add some seafoam to the gas according to the instructions on the bottle. sounds like you still have carb issues.

try this... ride the bike and repeat the running problem. while riding the bike, turn the choke on and see if the problem improves or gets worse.

also, when you were in the carbs, did you by chance remove the mixture screw plugs and shim the needles? That would have been an excellent time to do that.
1. I drained the tank, cleaned it with seafoam and added the right amount of seafoam to half a tank of new gas. Question: what fuel line from the tank do I install a fuel filter? Is it the on that comes to a "T"? (big or little fuel line?) And what looks like a rear sender unit on the bottom of the gas tank (Non Cali Emissions): Is there suppose to be a hose that goes to that also?

2. I rode my bike after letting it propperly warm up, though all gears. When I rolled the throttle back hard with the choke on, it still bogged but not as bad as without the choke on. When the choke is off and I roll on the throttle hard it almost kills the bike each time.

3. If the mixture screws you are referring to are under those caps you have to pop out with a wood screw, then no, I haven't even popped off those caps. And no on the shimming.

I figgured I had to shim with those holes in the muffler. I just don't get why it's a problem now and never was before I stored the bike. I'm going to start with 2 washers on each needle. They are #2 washers right?

For very near future reference, will I need to remove those washers later when I rejet the carbs after installing a full exhaust and pod filter?

"This is why I hate buying used machines" Atleast I'm learning though...
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Old July 13th, 2011, 03:57 PM   #33
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1. the larger of the hoses is the fuel line. the smaller is the vacuum hose which operates the petcock. no hose to that sending unit under the tank.

2. okay, so that tells you you're not getting enough fuel, for some reason, if it runs better when the choke is on and worse when it's off. Definitely a lean condition in the carbs... most likely from jets still being plugged in the carbs somewhere.

3. next time you remove the carbs, (which will be soon, I expect) be sure to remove those caps. I would recommend you shim the needles also, but the bike should run fine even if they aren't shimmed, at this point. There is another issue causing your problem.

I highly suggest you read the DIY on shimming if you intend on doing so. That will answer all your questions about shimming.

get your bike running well, first, before even thinking of adding an exhaust and pods. You need to establish a well running machine before even thinking of introducing another level of possible problems/headaches.

I also suggest you start reading a service manual to help you with working on the bike and to familiarize yourself of what components you are changing. The DIYs are here to supplement the service manual... not replace it.
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Old July 13th, 2011, 05:21 PM   #34
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1. the larger of the hoses is the fuel line. the smaller is the vacuum hose which operates the petcock. no hose to that sending unit under the tank.

2. okay, so that tells you you're not getting enough fuel, for some reason, if it runs better when the choke is on and worse when it's off. Definitely a lean condition in the carbs... most likely from jets still being plugged in the carbs somewhere.

3. next time you remove the carbs, (which will be soon, I expect) be sure to remove those caps. I would recommend you shim the needles also, but the bike should run fine even if they aren't shimmed, at this point. There is another issue causing your problem.

I highly suggest you read the DIY on shimming if you intend on doing so. That will answer all your questions about shimming.

get your bike running well, first, before even thinking of adding an exhaust and pods. You need to establish a well running machine before even thinking of introducing another level of possible problems/headaches.

I also suggest you start reading a service manual to help you with working on the bike and to familiarize yourself of what components you are changing. The DIYs are here to supplement the service manual... not replace it.
Cool, looks like I'm tearing the carbs down again this weekend (attempt #4). I swear everything looks clean as new on the carb. That one brass passage way was glogged and I finally got it cleared out. And it started running halfway decent (frustrated), but I have plenty of time to make sure it's right before I drive it.

When I test drive it for about 10 minutes at low speed, will it mess anything up running lean while I'm fixing it? I'll remove those mixture screws and make sure they are clear too. Going to add shims useing "VIA" DIY so see if it helps any on my first attempt of cleaning the carbs this weekend. Thanks for your help again.

Side note: have you ever had those passages clogged that I showed above in one of your pictures?
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Old July 13th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #35
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I've never checked those specifically, but when you get your carbs out, blow compressed air through every orifice you can find in the carbs. Take the slides/diaphragms out too just to prevent damage to them when you're using the compressed air in those passages. Keep track of left and right slides as the needles are different in each.

I use 100psi and a blower tip to clear out carb passages, but even then, sometimes even that's not enough to clear the clogs, depending on what they are.

running lean for a short a period will not harm the bike.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 05:11 PM   #36
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I've never checked those specifically, but when you get your carbs out, blow compressed air through every orifice you can find in the carbs. Take the slides/diaphragms out too just to prevent damage to them when you're using the compressed air in those passages. Keep track of left and right slides as the needles are different in each.

I use 100psi and a blower tip to clear out carb passages, but even then, sometimes even that's not enough to clear the clogs, depending on what they are.

running lean for a short a period will not harm the bike.
Thanks for the advise. Will take it. I'm also going to check the floats and make adjustments as needed. I was reading the DIY on them and found that if they are hanging low then it could make the bike run lean. Those will be the first things inspected on this tear down. There is a shop down the street, I will use their air to clear the passages again. This time, I'm installing an inline fuel filter when reinstalling just to eliminate the gast tank sending dirty fuel thought. Thanks always KKIM.
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Old July 14th, 2011, 06:07 PM   #37
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with regards to the floats... I wouldn't adjust them if the bike was running fine before, unless you think you might have screwed up the level when you were in there last. Won't hurt to check them, I guess, but adjusting/reading the level correctly takes some practice to get right.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 11:13 AM   #38
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with regards to the floats... I wouldn't adjust them if the bike was running fine before, unless you think you might have screwed up the level when you were in there last. Won't hurt to check them, I guess, but adjusting/reading the level correctly takes some practice to get right.
Nope, every time I was in there I simply removed the pin with the float and put it in their prospective carb bowl in carb order.

Going to get the washers today along with the Chem Carm Bath in a can. Going to soak the carbs for 24 hrs after I remove all the plastics from it and I'm also going to check my new NGK Iridiums to see if they are black or white. That should tell me real quick if it's lean or rich. I will get this bike done soon. I swear. Just hard to do it with a Military schedule you know. Makes me a Weekend Warrior for my ninja

Off subject: I was looking on your jetting pics and noticed some kind of silver power control module. Your pictures were dated 2008 so I doubt it was not on a newer EFI bike. What is that thing you zip tied to the frame.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 11:15 AM   #39
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Off subject: I was looking on your jetting pics and noticed some kind of silver power control module. Your pictures were dated 2008 so I doubt it was not on a newer EFI bike. What is that thing you zip tied to the frame.
in the front cowl??? if so, it's the HID ballasts.
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Old July 16th, 2011, 03:07 PM   #40
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in the front cowl??? if so, it's the HID ballasts.
ok got it... LOL. Going to soak the carbs tomorrow. It's 117 F outside right now. Thanks for the help and patients.
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