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Old December 2nd, 2017, 03:23 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain View Post
Is it a upsized 300 engine or a downsized 650 or neither? To me coming out with more versions of the H2 is silly. Well maybe here anyway. A friend just got a left over for a good discount as the dealer couldn't get rid of it. Another dealer offered to send one over to his local dealer with a bow on it to get rid of it.

NEVER MIND I GUESS ITS AN ENGINE OF ITS OWN DUE TO THE CYLINDER ANGLE BEING NEW.
Neither, it's a completely new engine.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 04:09 AM   #122
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Hmmm.. could you retrofit the 400 cluster onto the 250? Might eventually be an alternative to buying a Koso
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 06:41 AM   #123
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Saw it at the motorcycle show last night.

Not bad at all. Feels nice and familiar, of course; ergos seem the same as they had been.

There are some good accessories available from Kawi. The stock seat height is identical to the old bike, but they're offering a 1" higher seat. There's also a taller windscreen available, and a 12v outlet (stock bike has the hole for it).

The fairing is quite wide up front... makes it feel like a bigger bike than it is.

The Kawi rep said it is an all-new engine and all-new "chassis" (sheesh).

Dash has all the stuff you'd expect these days... gear indicator, fuel gauge, etc. Plus an "eco" light for fuel misers.

They had four on hand... black, blue, the overly busy IMHO KRT black/green, and a rather interesting gray/taupe with orange highlights.

Biggest news: SAME PRICE AS LAST YEAR.
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 07:31 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Dash has all the stuff you'd expect these days... gear indicator, fuel gauge, etc. Plus an "eco" light for fuel misers.
Call me grouchy, but motorcycle's don't need fuel gauges. When dash space is so valuable, I'll take a temp gauge over a fuel gauge for the info it gives me, thankyouverymuch! Just needs a big tach, a small speedo, and a small temp gauge.

I do appreciate it on a car though. The dash space there isn't quite so valuable and the distances I typically cover in a car are higher anyway, making the risk of running out of fuel worse.

YMMV
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 12:02 PM   #125
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Call me grouchy, but motorcycle's don't need fuel gauges. When dash space is so valuable, I'll take a temp gauge over a fuel gauge for the info it gives me, thankyouverymuch! Just needs a big tach, a small speedo, and a small temp gauge.

I do appreciate it on a car though. The dash space there isn't quite so valuable and the distances I typically cover in a car are higher anyway, making the risk of running out of fuel worse.

YMMV
What about gear position indicator? As someone bought up on basic motorcycles in the eighties it makes me laugh!
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Old December 2nd, 2017, 12:15 PM   #126
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What about gear position indicator? As someone bought up on basic motorcycles in the eighties it makes me laugh!
I'll pass on those too
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 07:57 AM   #127
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What about gear position indicator? As someone bought up on basic motorcycles in the eighties it makes me laugh!
I ride by feel and RPM's not what gear I am in. I really don't care if I'm in 3rd or 4th gear, if the engine is winding up, I up shift, if it's lugging I down shift.

Fuel Gauge?

nah, I know I get about 120-140 miles before I have to switch my bike to reserve and I get 26 miles after reserve until I am walking based on my experience. So if I hop on the bike and I know I have a 46 mile ride to work and my trip meter says 90 miles I stop for gas.

I was leading a ride yesterday, one of the other riders said he needed gas, as we left on the ride (who shows up for a ride with your tank on empty?). He was the #2 rider and every time we would stop at a light or stop sign he would roll up next to me and shout "I need gas". It was 6 or 7 miles till we came to the first gas station along the route and I pulled in. He put 4.5 gallons in his 6 gallon tank. He could have gone another 60 miles. Know your bike and it's capabilities and stop looking at idiot lights.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 08:16 AM   #128
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C'mon, admit it.... you've gone for seventh gear. We all have.

I'm a big fan of gear indicators especially for the track. Miscounting your downshifts when hauling it down from triple digits for the sharp right-hander at the end of the front straight could be the difference between a perfect corner entry and an over-rev or even a crash.

One thing the track has taught me is that labor-saving devices are good to have. The less mental energy I can put into operating the bike, the more is available for the stuff that matters... lines, reference points, brake markers, etc.

Re fuel gauges... digital dashes change the game. Indication of fuel level takes up a trivial amount of space. But I'm with you on not really needing one. I've always used my trip meter. My GSX-R doesn't have a gauge, but it does have a reserve light. I find myself using it more than the trip meter.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 10:16 AM   #129
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One thing the track has taught me is that labor-saving devices are good to have. The less mental energy I can put into operating the bike, the more is available for the stuff that matters... lines, reference points, brake markers, etc.
I get that. But to me, if that's your end goal, why not consider things that don't require eyes on the dash?

For a track only bike, I can understand justifying a well matched slipper clutch and an auto-blip function for making downshifts brainless. Much more effective at your goal of reducing mental power required than a gear indicator, no?
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 12:35 PM   #130
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If you lose count and go all the way to 1st instead of 2nd at speed, the slipper ain't necessarily gonna save the engine. It might or might not save you from losing the rear.

I put a Healtec indicator on my R6. I don't look at it every time... only when I'm not 100% sure what gear I'm in.

It's simply a peripheral-vision assist, like a shift light. You can make the same negative case for shift lights... why bother when you have a tach?
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 04:34 PM   #131
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Fair enough! Good thoughts.

I guess I'm more of a downshift-one-gear-at-a-time guy than a bang-out-3-downshifts-at-once kind of guy so I didn't think of it that way.
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Old December 3rd, 2017, 05:28 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
Fair enough! Good thoughts.

I guess I'm more of a downshift-one-gear-at-a-time guy than a bang-out-3-downshifts-at-once kind of guy so I didn't think of it that way.
Street, yeah. Track, you pretty much go straight from this:



To this...



.... as quickly as you can.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 10:43 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
C'mon, admit it.... you've gone for seventh gear. We all have.

I'm a big fan of gear indicators especially for the track. Miscounting your downshifts when hauling it down from triple digits for the sharp right-hander at the end of the front straight could be the difference between a perfect corner entry and an over-rev or even a crash.

..........
Definitely have gone for 7th, well at least for 6th on the Sportster. (actually on the Sportster the shifter feels different once you get in 5th gear, it flips up easily without any tension, I can just give a slight lift up with my toe and know I'm there.) But I don't think I would bother looking down if I felt I really needed another gear.

Well I don't ride on the track (yet). But I can't imagine coming into a corner, down shifting, then taking my eyes off the track and other riders to look at a gear indicator to let me know I was in the right gear.

I'm not saying a gear indicator is a bad thing, I've never owned a bike with one, I have test ridden a few with them and I think a bunch of stuff on the dash is more distracting. Maybe I just haven't had enough time with one to get used to it.

I'd rather have a slipper clutch than a gear indicator. That covers me if I down shift too far and I don't have to take my eyes off the road to look for a little number on my dash. I generally don't even look at my speedometer riding around in Washington DC traffic I just go with the flow of cars, if there is a big space in front of me I go faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post

It's simply a peripheral-vision assist, like a shift light. You can make the same negative case for shift lights... why bother when you have a tach?
I think a shift light that shows up in my peripheral vision just before I hit the rev limiter would be very useful. Doesn't take my eyes off the road, doesn't take any focus to read a number, just a I catch a view of the light I better upshift quick (unless I know I'm just about to down shift for some reason). I would say that a two color shift light that went yellow then red would be at least as useful if not more so than a tach.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #134
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In practice, you're in the target gear before tip-in and not looking at the dash. There's a lot going on... you're also braking and looking for reference points, and it's all happening RIGHT NOW.

The timing of your downshifts matters. There's precious little time to realize you've goofed and correct...

The indicator gives you a check long before you get there, should it be necessary.

It's like this:

130 on the straight. Pass your brake marker and load the lever lightly, Five, four.......tha-reee as you increase pressure, look for your marker, tip in and progressively reduce brake pressure (trail brake), look for the exit and roll on....

All about as fast as it takes you to read that.

You don't have time to go five, four... oh wait a minute, did I miss a shift or click it twice? Was I in sixth? Um...

because

HOLY CRAP I'M IN THE CORNER....

This is why people run off.
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Old December 4th, 2017, 01:16 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
in practice, you're in the target gear before tip-in and not looking at the dash. There's a lot going on... You're also braking and looking for reference points, and it's all happening right now.

The timing of your downshifts matters. There's precious little time to realize you've goofed and correct...

The indicator gives you a check long before you get there, should it be necessary.

It's like this:

130 on the straight. Pass your brake marker and load the lever lightly, five, four.......tha-reee as you increase pressure, look for your marker, tip in and progressively reduce brake pressure (trail brake), look for the exit and roll on....

All about as fast as it takes you to read that.

You don't have time to go five, four... Oh wait a minute, did i miss a shift or click it twice? Was i in sixth? Um...

Because

holy crap i'm in the corner....

This is why people run off.
and can be faster in the corner if your a slow reader
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Old December 4th, 2017, 01:16 PM   #136
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and can be faster in the corner if your a slow reader
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Old December 4th, 2017, 02:01 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
In practice, you're in the target gear before tip-in and not looking at the dash. There's a lot going on... you're also braking and looking for reference points, and it's all happening RIGHT NOW.

The timing of your downshifts matters. There's precious little time to realize you've goofed and correct...

The indicator gives you a check long before you get there, should it be necessary.

It's like this:

130 on the straight. Pass your brake marker and load the lever lightly, Five, four.......tha-reee as you increase pressure, look for your marker, tip in and progressively reduce brake pressure (trail brake), look for the exit and roll on....

All about as fast as it takes you to read that.

You don't have time to go five, four... oh wait a minute, did I miss a shift or click it twice? Was I in sixth? Um...

because

HOLY CRAP I'M IN THE CORNER....

This is why people run off.
And I don't see anywhere in there you looked down at your display to see what gear you are in.

For me on the track I think it would look more like:

"130 on the straight. Pass your brake marker and load the lever lightly, Five, four.......tha-reee as you increase pressure, look to make sure I am in the right gear, what is it oh there, yeah I'm in 3rd,OK good, look up and OH $%^&$^&$ I'm going off the track......."


The good news is it should be pretty easy for me to ignore it. And if it's there and I want to use it at some point I can. So I guess I don't see a harm in having a gear indicator. Having it or not having it isn't going to make a difference when I decide to buy a bike.
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