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Old July 21st, 2012, 07:25 AM   #41
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From my experience the stock clutch will slip at about 40 hp. But using a progressive nitrous shot. I go from about 20% to 100% power over a four second time period. This saves shock to the engine and drive train.
I also have carbon fiber clutch plates and VERY strong Barnett springs. I hope it will hold . If not I will dial it back to 75% and try again.
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Old July 21st, 2012, 07:42 AM   #42
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I started working on the bike for September.
This is the last race of the season. So it's go big of go home.
Eric, are you coming to BUB or Speed week at Bonneville?

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Old July 21st, 2012, 07:55 AM   #43
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I only race in Ohio. My bike is strictly built for the mile. But I will be at BUB in August as crew chief for two teams. Two 250 BMW singles and a Morini Dart 350 v twin all in the vintage push rod class. We are hopeing to set some world records.
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Old July 21st, 2012, 11:56 AM   #44
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Great. I might make it out there for a look.
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 04:36 PM   #45
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Anything is possible. Will you ride it full throttle with no front brakes though. ;-)
nosir!!! I like being able to slow down rapidly!
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:15 PM   #46
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I like having no reason to slow down. :-)
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Old July 22nd, 2012, 06:21 PM   #47
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I spent all day today getting the fuel mixture right. I have it just about perfect. Once I get some more jets I will be ready for the dyno.
I am ready to spray a 30 shot of nitrous on this motor. I am going to do it on the dyno so I can watch the power and record it.. I need to do it close to the race so the weather is more inline with what I can expect on race day.
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Old August 5th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #48
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I just completed the testing on the 30 hp nitrous shot. I will be going on the Dyno in early September.
The static test of the Wizards of nitrous system works like this.

You bring the engine to 4000 RPM then push the button. If the engine bogs or only revs to 8 or 9 thousand RPM then it is getting to much fuel.

If the engine revs past the red line or starts into the rev limiter.Then it is to lean.

Getting the mixture perfect is just a matter of testing and tuning. But with the wizards of nitrous system tuning is easy.

This is the static test. First I bring it to 4000 rpm then push the button. The engine goes to 12000 and no further. It does not drop off either and I quickly let go of the button. Then I have to give it a couple revs to clear out. But now I am ready to see if this is the first 60 hp 250 ninja.

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Old August 6th, 2012, 12:11 AM   #49
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You're still carbed right? Do you think it would benefit you to go EFI and add a window switch to your nitrous kit and spray in every gear at WOT?
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Old August 6th, 2012, 02:38 AM   #50
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I don't need EFI for that. I do have CR carbs no vacuum carbs with nitrous.

I have a thing called a max extream controller. I can spray a pre set amount of nitrous in any gear . I don't use it. I am still a bit nervous about adding 100% power . Usually I will wait untill the top of sixth gear. Then spray for 1/2 to 1/4 of a mile.

I can spray forth fifth and sixth with the button. But I am still building up to that.

Eventually I will have a system called REVO. We are still developing it. But it will use a feedback loop to control the mixture. The fuel will come from the fuel injectors and the nitrous will be controlled by the computer.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 03:57 AM   #51
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The controller from the Wizards Of nitrous is really cool.
I can program the on off window so the nitrous will only come on above 8500 rpm then turn off at 13500. With a rev limited to 14000. This allows it to come on and turn off automatically.
Also it senses the rpm drop and will know what gear I am in. That allows me to program in a percentage of the nitrous.

I could have none in first then twenty present in second and fifty present in third. Then go to eighty or one hundred present in the top gears. Also to reduse drive train shock I can delay the power delivery by as much as four seconds.

Plus it has safety features like low bottle or fuel pressure low battery voltage any problems. And it sets off an alarm.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 04:50 AM   #52
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Cool!! That sounds like a great idea to start nitrous in 2nd and get up to speed more quickly. ninja 250 0-60 record?
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Old August 6th, 2012, 05:10 AM   #53
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My consern is the block . Pushing agenced resistance is going to put a lot of strain on the clutch and if I get past that then the block will need studs. I have an engine being built with ARP studs top and bottom and Carillo rods.

For the next test I will only spray sixth gear for 1/2 mile. If I can do that more than once I will call it a season.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 06:51 AM   #54
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I never thought of that issue. I guess the clutch would take some abuse by doing that.
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Old August 6th, 2012, 07:28 AM   #55
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The stock clutch starts to slip at 122 mph or 40 hp. That was a stock used clutch. But I have seen other bikes top out around there. I have modified the clutch by using an Barnett carbon fiber clutch with very strong springs. They say it will be good to 100 hp. To help the clutch and everything else I delay the nitrous power for about two seconds . Ramping it up from 75% to 100 %.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #56
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This looks like a really fun adventure. I am most curious to see how things go. I have a feeling you'll find the power limits of the stock bottom end by the time you have reached 60 hp. I cant imagine the engine would be over engineered enough to withstand a 2 to 1 power increase.....please keep us posted.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #57
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I have everything ready to go. The 30 hp shot is tuned and I am going to do a full power run in Wilmington Ohio on September 29th.
I will find the limit. But from the experts it is way above the 64 hp i have now.I know this engine well and don't agree with the experts. I think the case will start to seperate at some point.
I have Carillo rods and arp studs for the next engine. Bringing the power in over four seconds will reduce stress. We will see
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Old September 29th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #58
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Day one in Ohio was just OK first I had a problem with a battery going bad . I had to run out and get a new battery. That delayed me getting in line . Then after waiting in the sun for five hours I mad a pass. I waited until I got into sixth gear and passed the 1/2 mile mark . The bike started to pull from about 100 and went 119.07111 mph. But there was a slight hick up during the run. I think my bottle pressure was a little high and the mix was just a little off . I let off the button for a second then got back on it and everything seems fine. The plugs looked great. I changed plugs and rear gear and got back in line. After waiting four hours I get to the line to late and they shut down for the day . I will be at the line early tomorrow.
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Old September 30th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #59
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Old October 1st, 2012, 03:51 AM   #60
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Day two was short. One run . Sprayed fifth and sixth and the bike went 123.36958mph.
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Old October 1st, 2012, 05:26 AM   #61
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Day two was short. One run . Sprayed fifth and sixth and the bike went 123.36958mph.
Very nice!!!
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 05:12 PM   #62
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With the season over I am going to work on my next run.
The 123 mph run was my personal best and a great run. But far from a good run. First I did not spray forth gear. And I was fiddling with my riding position. .I also had the bottle pressure a little off.
The first thing I am going to do is go on the dyno. I cant wait to see how much power I can get out this set up I have now.

After I do that I will be ready to go. The wizards of nitrous system did no damage to the engine at all.

I am now going to build another engine. This is going to be a real nitrous engine. I am polishing the piston tops and head for optimum combustion. and I am going to spray sixty horse power. That is sixty from nitrous and 25 from the motor. Eighty five horse power should get me going and set some fast records.

This is an old piston. I just wanted to practice. I will be using big bore 64mm pistons.
I need to remove any sharp edges from the combustion chambers.
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File Type: jpg pistons 003.jpg (75.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg pistons 010.jpg (53.8 KB, 4 views)
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 05:23 PM   #63
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I am going to spray sixty horse power.
holy ****!

good luck man!
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Old January 30th, 2013, 07:58 PM   #64
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Had a fun day on the dyno. My hats off to Joe and Jay for there help at Bikes Built Better. . I made 53.74 hp on one run . Most runs hit above 50 hp. I still have a lot of tuning to do . I will get the charts and post them up. But the motor made 31hp with 16 ft lb torque . With the spray it jumps to 52 hp and 24 ft lb of torque. It felt like it did not even care. I made 35 pulls and blew 10 pounds of nitrous and the only problem was a little dribble of coolant from that stupid pipe in the top of the head. It was just a drop. I need to get a bigger nitrous jet and I might switch back to my Nojima exhaust. Should have had more than 31 on the motor.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 01:24 PM   #65
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After going over some of the data from the dyno. It would appear I need to upgrade my ignition system.
The problems I had with e 85 and nitrous seem to be a break down in spark strength. So now I am going to upgrade the ignition system. Then back to the dyno.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:15 PM   #66
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What's involved in that?

Does a stronger spark mean more consistent burn? Bear with me here, I'm learning
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:09 PM   #67
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CONGRATS!! 53hp from a 250cc 4 stroke is truly amazing. even with nitrous its fantastic the little guy held together so well.

time for ZX coil-overs? :P
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:10 PM   #68
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CONGRATS!! 53hp from a 250cc 4 stroke is truly amazing. even with nitrous its fantastic the little guy held together so well.

time for ZX coil-overs? :P
I am very proud of this little motor. This is the motor I used all last season. It still puts out over 30 hp without a whimper. That is like a 350 Chevy engine making 700 hp.

I have heard not to use the coil overs.

I need to buy new coils. I have professional help with that.

In the mean time I need to learn all about ignition systems. This land speed racing separates the guessing from reality very quickly. Everything has to be dealt with at this level.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:16 PM   #69
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curious, whats bad about the coilovers? just the heat from the head??
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:17 PM   #70
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which do you think is better?

coil over plug units of a larger bike, or a stronger coil and wire.

from what i hear the COP setups have a short duration spark, while the inductive coils have a long duration spark thats weaker.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:33 PM   #71
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I asked some people I know that have experience with race bikes. They all said not to use them. I don't know why. But what I did get from a conversation that was WAY over my head. I need a strong spark that is slow moving. And something about micro jewels. He lost me. BUT he will get back to me and I will purchase some gadget with anodizing and stickers on it. Then present it to the alter of speed. Haha. I have to start reading tonight. I am lost.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:53 PM   #72
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let us know what coil setup you go with and if it forces you to change your cdi out to something that can put out a bigger trigger field or not. i'm very interested
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Old February 1st, 2013, 05:05 PM   #73
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I hope I don't have to change out the pick up and CDI unit. I really can't afford to do that.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 05:39 PM   #74
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Hook up another CDI inline with the current = 2x the power and a slightly longer duration by putting a small resistor inline so theres a lag from the main CDI?

I have no idea the CDI works other than its a capacitor.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 07:32 PM   #75
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I don't think the ignition module is the issue. I think I need a better coil. I was looking at coils on line. Stock Ninja coils cost 13 dollars. the fancy ones are 130. so maybe they are ten times better. The spark seems like it is blowing out or something when I get to 50 hp at 11500. it should go to 60 hp at 12500.

I will wait to hear back from my friend. They will come through something.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 05:44 AM   #76
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Racer X, what type plugs are you using? Are you thinking the plugs flame kernels are being quenched or you need a better quality spark?
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:20 PM   #77
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Just found these.
http://www.takai-racing.com/takai/ta...-99-p-404.html
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 09:40 PM   #78
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Wow! Kind of expensive. Have you tried test a plug that uses less voltage for ignitability, has a melting point double the plug you're currently using and can possibly increase performance by 1-2%, fires better @ high rpms, not to mention way cheaper? Seems you tried modding the heck out of the standard plug electrode and ground.

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Old February 2nd, 2013, 10:27 PM   #79
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Ya kinda expensive. I think that is two coils.
I use NGK cr10e plugs.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 11:19 PM   #80
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I know you've said before that you didn't use Iridium plugs because of cost, but it might be worth it to test them out once. I put a set in my bike and got a small improvement at higher rpms. They can probably give you that little extra spark that the standard plug can't, for a few (not hundreds) dollars more.
I picked up another set of NGK CR8EIX Iridiums yesterday at Advance Auto, on sale for $6.00 each (reg.$8.99).
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