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Old May 5th, 2018, 07:49 PM   #1
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learning the clutch/brake

The new thread on the MSF made this thought pop into my head -

I'm short. In my sneakers, the tips of my toes barely touch the ground while sitting on the bike. My boots will probably help a little but I'm not expecting to get both feet down comfortably. I've come to the decision that I don't want to lower the bike. I feel fine with one foot on the ground, the bike feels surprisingly light when I push off that foot, and thinking about it, I've never been able to get both feet on the ground on a bicycle I've always had to have one foot down and the other on the pedal, push off and go.

So, with this in mind, I know I won't be able to duck walk to learn the clutch and the brake. How would a shorty like me go about doing this? What technique could I use?
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Old May 6th, 2018, 03:31 AM   #2
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Learn AT the MSF and you won't have to learn on your bike. The MSF courses around here always have super-low (e.g. old Honda Rebel) bikes available.

If you've already taken the course, you've got this skill already. If you haven't.... well, it's useful even if you're already a rider. I had a hiatus of several years in my riding career and took it again before getting back into things to knock the rust off. Worthwhile even though I knew how to ride.

Alternate thought: My preferred method of loading my track bike on its trailer is to power-walk it up the ramp, while standing next to the bike. Exact same principle... you need to feather the clutch while applying just enough power to avoid a stall.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 04:35 AM   #3
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While learning AT the MSF would have been preferred, I can't get in until the end of July. I don't want to have my baby just sitting in my driveway for that long. I'd like to very carefully learn stop and go/slow maneuvers on my quiet street. Your second thought sounds like it might do quite nicely

What your talking about (using the clutch/throttle to go just enough without stalling) sounds kinda like what I do in the car when I'm coming back from a crowded night at Cedar Point. I give the car just enough gas to keep it going in the slooow bumper to bumper traffic, using the clutch and gas to just go enough not to stall without hitting the brake until I absolutely have to.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 05:40 AM   #4
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Yep. You'll get more of a feel for it if you're going up a (slight) incline because the bike will be more likely to stall if you don't get it right (I often stall going up the trailer ramp). Start on a level surface, though.

You'll be balancing the bike, of course... lean it oh-so-slightly into your hip so it doesn't fall away from you.

Having met you briefly, I know you're petite. It might feel a bit awkward reaching across the bike for the throttle. You might drop the bike.... if you're worried about that you might want to remove the plastics for this exercise to keep 'em pristine.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 05:46 AM   #5
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Old May 6th, 2018, 06:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koala View Post
What your talking about (using the clutch/throttle to go just enough without stalling) sounds kinda like what I do in the car when I'm coming back from a crowded night at Cedar Point. I give the car just enough gas to keep it going in the slooow bumper to bumper traffic, using the clutch and gas to just go enough not to stall without hitting the brake until I absolutely have to.


Exactly, you just need to train your hands to do what you already know how to do with your feet. (a big head start over many people) I'd try to find an open area to practice because as the bike starts to move it pulls you back (especially if you release the clutch a little too quickly) and by moving back you roll on more throttle and grab the bars more tightly (usually dumping the clutch) and you may need a little room to get composed again. Just imagine all those funniest home videos of someone learning in the back yard, hitting fences or swing sets or clothes lines or.....well you get the idea.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 07:29 AM   #7
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One piece of advice I can give you after working with my daughter so much: When you come to a stop and the ground is sloped left-right, lean the motorcycle to the high side and put that foot down. If you lean to the low side, the ground is lower, and it starts you leaning the bike before you even touch down. If you're on the shoulder of a road and it's fairly sloped, it can cause you to drop the bike.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 02:16 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the great advice! I'm not too worried about dropping it while walking with it. I'm going to make sure and be as careful as I can be, but that bike feels so light. I didn't expect it to feel so light. Maybe because I do physical work and I'm used to lifting heavy stuff
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Old May 6th, 2018, 03:58 PM   #9
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Light is good. Easier to lean slightly on your hip and can catch it easier if it tilts other way.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 05:44 PM   #10
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Add insoles to your boots, I added the gel heel and a full insole to my boots to give me .5 inches. Inclines are difficult on your toes, downhill is harder than up in my opinion. Oh, I am 5' with 27" inseam.

If you think the bike is light, another skill to work on is moving the bike while it is not running. Like, walking or backwards (backing up) on and off the bike.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 06:01 PM   #11
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Add insoles to your boots, I added the gel heel and a full insole to my boots to give me .5 inches. Inclines are difficult on your toes, downhill is harder than up in my opinion. Oh, I am 5' with 27" inseam.

If you think the bike is light, another skill to work on is moving the bike while it is not running. Like, walking or backwards (backing up) on and off the bike.
That's me, lol just over 5' with a 27" inseam I might eventually spring for the Daytona Lady Stars but I couldn't justify buying those right now. Once the bike is in my driveway I'm going to see how it is with my Alpinestars that I bought. What insoles are you using?

I'll try moving it around like you say. I just want to try what I can while I'm waiting to take the MSF. I'm not going to skip taking it, but I'd like to see what I can do in the meantime.

Doing the things you guys are talking about will also give me an idea on if I need to order adjustable levers for my teeny hands. Anyone know a good website to order the Pazzo levers? I looked around but only found one site besides Pazzo's and the sets of shorty clutch and brake aren't readily available.
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Old May 6th, 2018, 06:34 PM   #12
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I use Dr. Scholls heel only and full (combine both).
I use cheap Chinese levers and they are fine. But, please note: you will need to adjust the clutch cable (read the manual for specs), the oem worked fine for me.

Make sure you read the manual, there is good information in it.
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Old May 7th, 2018, 05:38 PM   #13
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I use these shorty levers with reach adjustment. I set adjuster so lever is about 1/4" closer to bar than stock. There's some fit question on pre-gen and some require upgrade to 500EX perches first. No problems with new-gens or 300s that I know of.

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Old May 7th, 2018, 10:09 PM   #14
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Nothing wrong with riding a low slung cruiser...
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Old May 8th, 2018, 05:59 PM   #15
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Some advice nobody gave me that I wish someone had:

Take it apart, lube the cable, then grease the crap out of it with your favorite flavor of grease. Cram some more grease in the lever for good measure. Wipe off any excess after reassembling. This will not only cause you to break fewer clutch cables, but also create a smooth, easily controllable experience when learning. My cable was notchy and horrible when I got my bike. If you're on a bike with a hydraulic clutch, then disregard this advice as it isn't applicable.

Also, @Ghostt turned me on to this stuff right here, and it's amazing. I haven't looked back and can't remember where my Motion Pro cable-lube tool even is. It's great for bicycles as well, and has caused me to lube my cables more often, as it's much easier with this product.
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Old May 9th, 2018, 05:11 AM   #16
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I am one of the instructors for the Motorcycle Ohio BRC ( basic riding course)

I teach in the Cincinnati area

In the first lesson on the range you will be learning the friction zone of the clutch

- Rocking in place-

-start bike in 1st gear
-push back on your heels
-ease clutch out until your feet are flat ( start to feel the engine pull you forward)
-squeeze clutch in
- lather-rinse-repeat

and also get you one of those cheap spring hand strengtheners, I use one while driving the car and jut watching TV ,

Hope this helps
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Old May 9th, 2018, 04:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I use these shorty levers with reach adjustment. I set adjuster so lever is about 1/4" closer to bar than stock. There's some fit question on pre-gen and some require upgrade to 500EX perches first. No problems with new-gens or 300s that I know of.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/251997518791
I checked those out. I just might go for them, thanks!
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Old May 9th, 2018, 04:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by steiny View Post
I am one of the instructors for the Motorcycle Ohio BRC ( basic riding course)

I teach in the Cincinnati area

In the first lesson on the range you will be learning the friction zone of the clutch

- Rocking in place-

-start bike in 1st gear
-push back on your heels
-ease clutch out until your feet are flat ( start to feel the engine pull you forward)
-squeeze clutch in
- lather-rinse-repeat

and also get you one of those cheap spring hand strengtheners, I use one while driving the car and jut watching TV ,

Hope this helps
If only you were near me, NE Ohio here. So you are saying they will be teaching me how to do things that I will never be able to do on my bike. Not unless I magically grow a few inches Hence the reason why I asked ways a shorty can learn the clutch/brake without doing what they teach via duckwalking, etc. Thanks for the tip on the hand strengthener, but I won't need it. Years of working at a car wash and now as a maid, my hands are strong. No weakness there.

Since you are an instructor, do you have any ideas on what I could do aside from what's been suggested? Thank you for any input

@MrAtom thanks I'll get some of that stuff.
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Old May 10th, 2018, 03:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koala View Post
If only you were near me, NE Ohio here. So you are saying they will be teaching me how to do things that I will never be able to do on my bike. Not unless I magically grow a few inches Hence the reason why I asked ways a shorty can learn the clutch/brake without doing what they teach via duckwalking, etc. Thanks for the tip on the hand strengthener, but I won't need it. Years of working at a car wash and now as a maid, my hands are strong. No weakness there.

Since you are an instructor, do you have any ideas on what I could do aside from what's been suggested? Thank you for any input

@MrAtom thanks I'll get some of that stuff.


Adjustable levers will help the bike fit you ,after that it all on you to adjust to the bike ,

Every bike is a little different so it hard to say how it's going to work out .

Go into the class with a open mind and willingness to learn and you will overcome any thing in your way ( including size)


If you want to get into a class sooner , you can go to any class and try to be a walk in , sometimes people don't show up and you can move into there spot .

Read the policy of Motorcycle Ohio's web site for more info .

hope this helps
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Old May 10th, 2018, 12:23 PM   #20
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You can do what he stated on ypur bike, if your inseam is the same as mine....I can. You just wont be flat footed, you will use your core muscles and leg strength.
Gripping the bars and lever is not a strength component of the grip, it is more finger tips. I rode with the oem for 2 years with no issues....gloves are an XS for me.
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Old May 10th, 2018, 03:43 PM   #21
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My legs are strong, my core...could be better. Not weak, but could be better.

Takara is finally home where she belongs. I put my boots on to go and see how it would feel but that was a bad idea. I'll have to wait until Sunday. I'm just too tired from the amount of hard/long cleans I've been doing since last Wednesday. She felt so light when I sat on her at State 8 when I went in on my day off and had been having a normal work week. Not this evening. My arms have already been feeling weak and my legs tired from being overused since yesterday. When I put the stand up and went to sit on her, I managed, but I felt so wobbly and she felt so heavy. I carefully got off and put the stand back down cuz I was afraid I was going to drop her.

As for the MSF, I would love to be able to do a walk in, but as the manager of my office I have to ask for the days off ahead of time. So, sure, I could go to a class and manage to walk in, but then I might not be able to go to the other days due to work.

I'm going into all of this with an open mind. I'm ready to learn and have some fun
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Old May 14th, 2018, 04:04 PM   #22
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You can do what he stated on ypur bike, if your inseam is the same as mine....I can. You just wont be flat footed, you will use your core muscles and leg strength.
Gripping the bars and lever is not a strength component of the grip, it is more finger tips. I rode with the oem for 2 years with no issues....gloves are an XS for me.
Did you have any issue with your fingers reaching the levers? I took the cover off her for a sunshiny minute after getting home (it rained most of the day) and I noticed that while I can reach the levers and pull them in just fine, my pinky fingers don't reach lol. Will that end up being a problem or does it matter?

On another note, my being wobbly and her feeling so heavy last week was just a combination of me being exhausted and short I ordered the Joe Rocket Heartbreaker boots with the 2.5 inch wedge so while I wait for them to get here, I threw on a pair of 2 inch flip flops to compare. That plus having energy made a big difference. With the 2 inches I'm still on tip toes with both feet but I can comfortable keep the bike straight up and rest my weight on the ball of my left foot to start off. I can get on and off easily, walk next to her forward and back. The only issue I noticed is that my legs want to be where the pegs are....

I'm so excited to go on this journey, I got my temps the other day and I'm signed up or the MSF in July
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Old May 14th, 2018, 04:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Did you have any issue with your fingers reaching the levers? I took the cover off her for a sunshiny minute after getting home (it rained most of the day) and I noticed that while I can reach the levers and pull them in just fine, my pinky fingers don't reach lol. Will that end up being a problem or does it matter?

On another note, my being wobbly and her feeling so heavy last week was just a combination of me being exhausted and short I ordered the Joe Rocket Heartbreaker boots with the 2.5 inch wedge so while I wait for them to get here, I threw on a pair of 2 inch flip flops to compare. That plus having energy made a big difference. With the 2 inches I'm still on tip toes with both feet but I can comfortable keep the bike straight up and rest my weight on the ball of my left foot to start off. I can get on and off easily, walk next to her forward and back. The only issue I noticed is that my legs want to be where the pegs are....

I'm so excited to go on this journey, I got my temps the other day and I'm signed up or the MSF in July
I use 2 fingers for clutch and brake, I have never used all my fingers. Will not be an issue.

The boots might be an issue, it will change the angle of your toes when shifting. When you get them sit on the bike and practice moving your toes under the shifter.
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Old May 14th, 2018, 07:06 PM   #24
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Did you have any issue with your fingers reaching the levers? I took the cover off her for a sunshiny minute after getting home (it rained most of the day) and I noticed that while I can reach the levers and pull them in just fine, my pinky fingers don't reach lol. Will that end up being a problem or does it matter?
Numbers of fingers matters less than amount of squeeze. That is, more closed fingers closer to a fist can generate more force and have better control and modulation than open stretched out fingers that are wrapped around only at 1st knuckle.

With shorty levers, I can lift rear-tyre and come close to locking up front with 2-fingers.
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