Squirrelly back end

[Proteus]

I'm trying to figure out if this is just rider error or something mechanical.

Lately my back wheel has felt "squirrelly" - like the wheel walks a bit side to side. I've had a couple of quick stops that have turned into a full-on slide. One was on a busy street downtown and my bike got almost 90 degrees rotated. I managed to ride it out just fine.

My guess is that I'm using too much rear brake when emergency stopping and I'm locking up the rear wheel. But it does feel a bit like the tire is a bit slidey all-around for the last few days.

Tires are still original.

[flitecontrol]

Have you checked how much tread is left on the rear tire? If it was getting goosey on wet pavement, I'd definitely suspect loss of traction due to slick tires. But if it's doing it on dry roads, you are probably right about too much rear brake.

Try practicing your quick stops when there's no traffic and you need to stop for an intersection. You can fine tune your quick stops by doing this. If you are skidding the rear, back off some. Do this on wet pavement too, as it's much easier to skid either tire, but especially the rear, when it's raining.

[Proteus]

I haven't measured the tread, I'll do that today.

I definitely need to head to a parking lot and practice some quick stops.

It does also feel a bit "loose" when I'm not braking, but that could just be in my head.

[flitecontrol]

I recommend that you practice quick stops at select intersections on the road. It's more realistic than parking lot practice. By select, I mean when there isn't traffic that could pose a problem. Remember to squeeeeze the front brake, not grab a handful!

As you develop more skill, you'll get a better handle on how far you can push the envelope, just as you did when learning to corner.

[Proteus]

Good point.

I'm still really learning how to corner though!

[Alex]

Confirm tire condition and tire pressure, but if those are both confirmed OK it would point back to how you're using the rear brake. Better to find out now with time to work on it, than after it causes a real problem.

[csmith12]

The weather getting cooler... and riders feel it.

And be mindful of practicing skills that may put you down on the public streets. Why? Check your laws. For example, if you lay a bike down in OH for ANY reason, and there is damage to the bike... you get a failure to control citation. Even if no other vehicles or property is involved, so be in the know.

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by csmith12

The weather getting cooler... and riders feel it.

And be mindful of practicing skills that may put you down on the public streets. Why? Check your laws. For example, if you lay a bike down in OH for ANY reason, and there is damage to the bike... you get a failure to control citation. Even if no other vehicles or property is involved, so be in the know.

Are you saying that the weather is affecting my handling or control inputs?

Good point on checking the laws, off to do that now.

[JohnnyBravo]

Crazy laws... I should be able to wreck my bike where ever an as long as nobody else's stuff is involved I should be allowed :/
/end rant

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Are you saying that the weather is affecting my handling or control inputs?

I am not saying it's your problem in this case, but I watched it all last weekend at the track, 38 degrees... brrrrr.

A chilled (physically cold) rider can be stiff and rigid, as the muscles fight off the effects of cold weather. Feels like you're pressing the controls with the same amount of force, but in reality.... it can be somewhat different. There were a few riders who had on a thermal base layer and you could see it in their riding that they were more comfortable.

Food for thought....

[Proteus]

It certainly could be. It went from hot to chilly pretty quickly here.

I spent months sweating in a mesh jacket and went straight to cold. I've been layering it with a fleece but it's still a bit chilly.

Probably time to switch to warmer gloves as well.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Proteus

It went from hot to chilly pretty quickly here.

Same here.

I didn't even mention how the cooler weather could be affecting your traction. As with any loss of traction, what do you have with most of your control inputs?

[Proteus]

Under/overcorrection?

[250rr]

I'd ask advice from @akima.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by csmith12

As with any loss of traction, what do you have with most of your control inputs?

Originally Posted by Proteus

Under/overcorrection?

2 things; give yourself more time/distance, be smoother... no snatches, grabs, hard pushes, ect... ect...

I bet you already knew that though...

[akima]

Back end is squirrelly? I see no problem here.

[250rr]

[Proteus]

No offense meant to Akima or any other squirrels out there riding ninjas.

Csmith12 I probably haven't adjusted my control inputs enough for the changing weather. I checked the vehicle code and it looks like we don't have a "failure to control" law in Illinois.

The tire looks pretty good (from what I can tell), it's got about 4mm of tread depth.

Please excuse my massive chicken strips.

[Klondike1020]

@Proteus- please stop armoralling your tires. lol thats bad for business.

In Ny the police write you a ticket that is a moving violation that is "traveling to fast for conditions" the police can issue that ticket without seeing you have an accident or even knowing your actual speed. If you crash in the evening and you tell him its because the sun was in your eyes he can write you a "driving with vision obscured"

If you have an accident or they witness you practicing these sideways stops. They can get you. basically if they want to . then they can. so just be safe.

I think the key is gradual breaking. You will get a feel for how much deceleration you can accomplish without breaking down your traction. You will learn how to modulate it.

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

@Proteus- please stop armoralling your tires. lol thats bad for business.

Not sure if serious? I've never put armorall or anything on them.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Proteus

No offense meant to Akima or any other squirrels out there riding ninjas.

Csmith12 I probably haven't adjusted my control inputs enough for the changing weather. I checked the vehicle code and it looks like we don't have a "failure to control" law in Illinois.

The tire looks pretty good (from what I can tell), it's got about 4mm of tread depth.

Please excuse my massive chicken strips.

No worries man. My very first thread on this forum is very similar to this one. Cool early May morning ride, slightly damp with wet spots on the road on a irc tire that was most likely under inflated.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Proteus

I'm trying to figure out if this is just rider error or something mechanical.

Lately my back wheel has felt "squirrelly" - like the wheel walks a bit side to side. I've had a couple of quick stops that have turned into a full-on slide. One was on a busy street downtown and my bike got almost 90 degrees rotated. I managed to ride it out just fine.

My guess is that I'm using too much rear brake when emergency stopping and I'm locking up the rear wheel. But it does feel a bit like the tire is a bit slidey all-around for the last few days.

Tires are still original.

It seems that you have two different problems here:
1) Could be mechanical if it happens during normal acceleration and light turning.
2) Evident incorrect technique to stop or slow down.

1) Check that the swing arm has no lateral play due to worn bearings at the pivot.
Check that your rear shock absorber is not adjusted too hard.
Check that the pressure of your rear tire is correct, as well as balanced and properly installed (line close to edge of wheel keeps the same distance all around).
Check that the chain is properly adjusted (some slack) and lubricated (each time you fill up the tank).

2) Stop street riding until you go to the Riding Skills section and learn about and practice to master the most important of all motorcycling skills: proper braking techniques.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Not sure if serious? I've never put armorall or anything on them.

I was kidding you. lol

my humor is often indiscernible over the internet :P

[Proteus]

@Motofool thanks for the info, I will check that stuff. I spent some time this weekend practicing hard braking and have gotten much better with not using too much rear.

I'm pretty sure that the problem I was having was due to my control inputs in colder weather, because this morning it was back up to 60 degrees and everything felt normal.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Proteus

@Motofool thanks for the info, I will check that stuff. I spent some time this weekend practicing hard braking and have gotten much better with not using too much rear.......

You are welcome

Consider using front brake only in future practices.
Educate your right hand to take some fractions of second to gradually load the front contact patch first and then brake harder than never before with your vision horizontal and far and your body feeling the balance of the bike and the g forces (in order to get familiar with those and to avoid panic at the dangerous moment): much more efficient and safe way to stop.

[Somchai]

@Proteus, maybe you could measure if your wheel is correct aligned in the swing arm and by saying this DON'T care about the measurement marks on the swing arm made from the factory.

[Misti]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Are you saying that the weather is affecting my handling or control inputs?

As the weather gets colder it becomes much more difficult to warm up the tires. Cold tires on a cold road = slippery, squirrely feeling and much less grip. You need to be conscious of the road and tire temperature and alter your riding a bit to compensate. That means that you will need to take more time to warm up your tires and be much more careful leaning your bike over until they come up to temperature. Control inputs should be smooth.

Originally Posted by Proteus

@Motofool thanks for the info, I will check that stuff. I spent some time this weekend practicing hard braking and have gotten much better with not using too much rear.

I'm pretty sure that the problem I was having was due to my control inputs in colder weather, because this morning it was back up to 60 degrees and everything felt normal.

Sounds like that was for sure the problem. I'd really suggest trying to use much less rear brake and concentrate on using more front for emergency and general stops. The front brake is capable of doing most (if not all) the braking and many riders don't realize just how hard they can squeeze the front lever or how quickly they can stop. Take time to practice your stopping somewhere safe and you will be much less likely to suffer a serious slide if you know what your bike feels like under hard braking. For more info on emergency braking you can read my article here:

Ride safe

[Proteus]

Thanks @Misti. While I've gotten better at braking in general I had a close call the other night when cars stopped very suddenly and I stomped on the rear brake in a panic. Fishtailed a bit but was able to keep it upright and on two wheels, but it was close. Having 15 years of car experience and 3 months of motorcycle experience means that my instinct in a panic is to use my foot to brake hard. Have to work past that.