Would a ZX-4R or Ninja 400 RR still be considered a “Ninjette?”

[CZroe]

I know the bike hasn’t been announced yet but assuming it does get announced later this month…
Will it be getting a dedicated section on this site like the Ninja 400 has? Just seems Kawi is pushing us closer and closer to that line where it’s no longer a Ninjette, especially considering it should outperform the EX500 that was never considered a Ninjette.

Ironically, I’d be first in line if they were just bringing us the ZX-25R but a supersport 400 may just be too much $$$ for me. I desperately need transportation but a ZX-4R or Ninja 400 RR would definitely cost enough extra that it’s hard to justify until I’m back on my feet with a car. Didn’t stop me from asking at the dealership if they take deposits on unannounced bikes.

FWIW, I lost my car earlier this year (natural disaster). My friend’s car loan is in my name so I can’t get another any time soon. Perfect excuse to go for a bike instead.

[Alex]

Ninjette is a state of mind. We are all Ninjette. Ninjette are we.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ninjette is a state of mind. We are all Ninjette. Ninjette are we.

The wise one has spoken!

[DannoXYZ]

I would certainly consider it Ninjette since anything less than 600cc is considered a baby in U.S. Would certainly have to be lightweight. The ZX-25R weighing in at 400lbs was certainly very disappointing. It would get clobbered by EX400 with similar power but 35-lbs less mass to push around.

If Kawi can make ZX-4R competitive with FZR400, CBR400RR, VFR400RR of yore, it might work. Something like 70-bhp and 375-lbs kerb weight would be awesome! Otherwise I'm sticking with my 300-lb EX250 for track use.

[thedrewski86]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Something like 70-bhp and 375-lbs kerb weight would be awesome!

This may sound crazy, but Suzuki did this back in '99 with a little bike called the SV. There are plenty of examples with a kerb weight in that ballpark.

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah, 1st-gen SV650 was great, still very popular on track. Actual weight was around 420-lbs though and gained more and more weight with each generation adding EFI and ABS. For that heft, you can use CBR600RR or R6 for tonnes more power.

Looks like hot ticket for 400 track bike is the Norton Ninja 400 that Rocco's been using for past couple years. Weighs in at 310-lbs and +15% more power. https://www.cyclenews.com/2018/10/ar...aki-ninja-400/ . Rocco's a second faster than me at Laguna Seca on my CBR600RR and 9s faster than Ninja 250. Rocco raced AFM couple years ago, and won everything he entered. Would've placed in open and FP classes as well! And he's such a nice young man!

[thedrewski86]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Yeah, 1st-gen SV650 was great, still very popular on track. Actual weight was around 420-lbs though and gained more and more weight with each generation adding EFI and ABS. For that heft, you can use CBR600RR or R6 for tonnes more power.

My SV is definitely around 420lbs wet, but I know the 1gen could get down to the 375 mark pretty easily; lot's of guys racing them on the SV forum who are down in that range.

The R6 is hands down faster (and extinct, along with the SV), but if you want 70hp at 375lb you can either wait for Kawasaki to do it or grab what Suzuki already did. The classes are getting more and more meaningless now anyway, engine configurations and chassis design keep on changing. It's crazy what is going on in the midsize parallel-twin market now!

[DannoXYZ]

It's great how there's so much interest in these small mid-range bikes. Most popular growing classes in AFM racing. Bringing in lots of new racers and filling up fields where there was only 5-6 racers couple years ago. Really helps that FLAP is renting out bone-stock 400s all with same tyres. Makes for cheap and competitive racing.

Yup, I was talking about stock kerb weight off showroom floor. Lighter start, easier it is to lighten further. At moment, non-ABS Ninja 400 is best at 362-lbs, which makes getting down to 325-lbs not too difficult or expensive, still 50-lbs lighter than lightened SV. Can't make up for weight with power because lighter bike will brake and corner better.

Just hoping new ZX-4R won't be porker off showroom floor. If it is, there won't be much interest.

For 400 stock/superbike class I still think '88-89 FZR400 might have chance against Ninja 400. Common track-config is 75-bhp and 350-lbs. But parts are rare and expensive. Same thing with G-Force's 80bhp VFR400RRs. Nowadays, would be cheaper to campaign Norton's N400 ClubRacer @ 310-lbs or their GP-spec +60hp sub-300lb model.

Hopefully Honda will take interest and really dial it up. Couple years ago, there was guy racing NSF250R back when 250 class still existed. People where clamoring all over each other to enter races against him. One guy brought out mothballed TZ250! Dave Moss was still racing his 58bhp CBR250RR and I bought up 2 bikes worth of parts to build CBR250RR myself. But, they killed off 250 class, boo...

[shspvr]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Hopefully Honda will take interest and really dial it up. Couple years ago, there was guy racing NSF250R back when 250 class still existed. People where clamoring all over each other to enter races against him. One guy brought out mothballed TZ250! Dave Moss was still racing his 58bhp CBR250RR and I bought up 2 bikes worth of parts to build CBR250RR myself. But, they killed off 250 class, boo...

Did you ever get a chance to ride the Inline 4 Cyl like CBR250RR it was awesome and it to bad Honda is still dragging it foot and has Honda CBR250 the liquid-cooled parallel twin has top out 41 horsepower and adding a quick shifter and slipper clutch big deal ZX25R will still out run it but the Hot Rumors are CBR250RR-R should be something even Yamaha maybe working on bring back it inline 4 cyl FZR250 powerplant and I'm petty sure Suzuki will be missing in action.

[thedrewski86]

Yet another reason why I love the old SV platform: 350lbs and 78hp
https://www.svrider.com/threads/2001...-track.399201/
I see too many examples done up like this. I recently saw a much nicer 2gen go up for sale here in SoCal from a forum member I trust and does good work. I wish I needed a track bike

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by shspvr

Did you ever get a chance to ride the Inline 4 Cyl like CBR250RR it was awesome.

Yup, took me a year to put my MC19 and MC22 back together. Kinda lost interest after AFM killed off 250 class. But figured I might as well ride them for fun!

Started out with pile of parts, I traded one of these CBR250RR frames for NSR250R frame.


Got single-sided swingarm out of deal. Gonna use that on NSR350R build with RZ350/banshee engine.


MC19 coming together.


MC22 all together and registered. I went through Vermont technique as CA's such hassle.



Before putting street parts on, both of them were about 315-lbs wet. I'm going to use MC19 as track-bike since it's missing lots of street parts anyway and bodywork's broken/incomplete. Gonna get lightweight Tyga bodywork, make much lighter alloy shorter sub-frame (no rear-seat needed). Can get it down to 290-lbs! About 20-lbs lighter than my Ninja 250 track bike with 30% more power, so much fun!!!

[Snake]

Most definitely yes.

[jrshooter]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ninjette is a state of mind. We are all Ninjette. Ninjette are we.

my r6 is my ninjette. have not had a ninja in years, this is still the only motorcycle forum i come 2.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by jrshooter

my r6 is my ninjette. have not had a ninja in years, this is still the only motorcycle forum i come 2.

Yeah, but there isn’t an R6 section of the site for obvious reasons.

Now that I think about it, the 2013+ Ninja 250 doesn’t have its own section because it’s really just a regional variant of the 300/400 and they basically share sub forums. There is no subforum for the ZX-25R yet… perhaps because it isn’t sold where it can contrast with the bigger Ninjas to be seen as a “Ninjette.”

I’m gonna guess the ZX-4R/400 RR and ZX-25R will share a subforum as well. Being regional variants means the 400cc model will be a “porker” too. Still, it’s a road bike for me so gimme that ABS!

Yes, I am talking about it like it’s a sure thing. Hard to imagine that they won’t do this… unless they want to release a 300cc model first and then upgrade to 400 in a few years like they did with the other Ninjettes. Since I would rather have a cheaper/smaller version I hope they milk this new 4-cylinder engine/platform like that instead of going straight for the sweet spot. Might lead the competitors along too all while having an ace to release when the time is right.

[DannoXYZ]

Or build 400 triple! Save some production costs, be little lighter... hmmm....

[shspvr]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Or build 400 triple! Save some production costs, be little lighter... hmmm....

No thanks unless it old 2-Stroke then I'm all for it

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by shspvr

No thanks unless it old 2-Stroke then I'm all for it

Yes, triple 2-stroke!!!

... with TURBO!!!

[CZroe]

In the teaser on Kawi’s website you can see that two of the three covered bikes that they’ll be unveiling on the 23rd have their style of sportbikes rims and one clearly has an underslung exhaust peeking out from under the cover.

EICMA can’t come soon enough!

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Yes, triple 2-stroke!!!

... with TURBO!!!

Turbo… AND SUPERCHARGER!

(I know… I know… )

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ninjette is a state of mind. We are all Ninjette. Ninjette are we.

One of us! one of us!

[James Page]

I really want a ZX4R. Really.

For all that is good and holy, pleez, Kawasaki, bring one to the USA.

[Snake]

Yes the USA badly needs one.

[CZroe]

Similar question: Will the Ninja Endeavor be considered a Ninjette? It’s based on the current Ninja 250/400 but it’s an EV. Pretty much all the frame and body components are likely to be interchangeable meaning there will be a lot of new interest in existing Ninjette stuff.

[algs26]

Got a chance to ride one when the Kawasaki demo truck stopped by. I liked it a lot.
Quickshifter up and down was a little clunky the first couple gears. Suspension was maybe a bit soft for the track but ok on the poorly maintained streets we rode on. Engine was smooth and the brakes decent. Was fun to let that engine rev up and not get a ticket before clicking all the way to cruising revs.

I think the bike is choked off at the top here for emissions.

[DannoXYZ]

It's restricted not for emissions but for noise regulations due to all the "loud pipes" in U.S. Bikes meeting stricter Euro-5 emissions standards gets full power. Harleys are whisper-quiet in Europe. We get de-tuned version ZX-4R with 56bhp instead of 79bhp available elsewhere.

https://www.motorcycle.com/new-model...-4rr-make.html
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycl...g-to-usa-2023/

I saw one couple weeks ago on ride to South Mountain.



He's going to be going to trackday at AMP on 10/1. Will be interesting to see how it compares to Ninja 400's time of 1:38.

[DannoXYZ]

For about 15-yrs now, U.S. high-performance models have been crippled to lower noise levels. It started in 2009 with CBR600RR using crippled ECU maps and losing 9bhp in high-end compared to year before.



Worse offence was recent CBR1000RR-R SP losing -48bhp compared to R.o.W models. Restricted intake tracts with foam lining to reduce intake noise. Extra chambers in mufflers. Different intake trumpets and milder cams. ECU programming with non-optimal maps. Horrible!

[CaliGrrl]

Interesting. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this one. The dealership where I bought my 650 had one, but I'd already decided on the bigger bike. I was pleased to see it existed, and was available for sale, though.